Is This A Reasonable Price For A 4 Tier Wedding Cake?
Business By Blueridgebuttercream Updated 8 Dec 2013 , 6:28pm by jason_kraft
Thanks for having my back Anna!
Just realized I was on the big computer. For some reason I don't see date posted when using it. I don't see signatures when using my phone. I'm always missing out on something! Dangit!
Anyone know how to fix that?
And, yes, I have posted about this in the troubleshooting area to no avail.
Old thread or not, the other lady was making some pretty ridiculous statements and what Delicious desserts said, really needed to be said, to refute them.
Ugh, no kidding! I'm going to tell myself that that was a troll. Yeah, yeah...troll. Had to be. Good grief.
AWow, for a group of sweet bakers, what a bunch of sour, bitter individuals are in action on this thread. The passive aggressive tone of Delicious Desserts to the original question was particularly indignant. And I snorted with laughter the analogy with the Vera Wang dress used; it actually perfectly highlighted Annabakescakes line if thinking: Of course a bride who doesn't have the money for a Vera Wang dress can go get one for 150 bucks! She takes the design inspiration, visits a dressmaker with far less skill and less expensive material, and receives her dress. Now, as we a know Vera Wang is in no danger of being priced out by such vendors. Because she has brides all across the country and the world who would not compromise on quality for their item. But more importantly they have the cash to splash. This is called a free market economy. To be so threatened and hostile towards a mother attempting to simply have a go at starting her own business (and, doing something she clearly loves) suggests you are not confident in the quality of your own work.
Perhaps you folks might just take a breath (have a cup of tea, perhaps?) and gain a little perspective before you accuse a home baker mother of threatening to bring down the entire cake industry...
Well dang, it didn't really quote me.
I will need for you to point out exactly which post you think was passive aggressive. I'm usually rather blunt about my opinion. While I do try to be respectful, I have no trouble confronting my disagreement. Passive Agressive: A defense mechanism that allows people who aren't comfortable being openly aggressive get what they want under the guise of still trying to please others. They want their way, but they also want everyone to still like them.
My point, as stated, is that some costs are easily missed during calculation. This can mean that someone isn't truly "making" what they think they are.
Huge eye roll to you for coming in & waving a big ole stick to stir up a pot which was over way back in June.
The point, with this particular discussion, is that the $150 knock off Vera Wang would not be of the same quality as Vera's. If it was, everyone would then expect the same quality for the price.
I encourage all bakers, of all skills, to charge not only what they are worth but what the market will bare. If the skill level is low, the price should reflect it. If, however, you have made crazy skills, please charge accordingly. It breaks my heart to have to tell someone they can't really get my cake version of Vera Wang for Faded Glory prices.
Furthermore, I find it laughable that you label me both passive aggressive and indignant!
Indignant: feeling or showing anger or annoyance at what is perceived as unfair treatment.
Wow, for a group of sweet bakers, what a bunch of sour, bitter individuals are in action on this thread. The passive aggressive tone of Delicious Desserts to the original question was particularly indignant. And I snorted with laughter the analogy with the Vera Wang dress used; it actually perfectly highlighted Annabakescakes line if thinking: Of course a bride who doesn't have the money for a Vera Wang dress can go get one for 150 bucks! She takes the design inspiration, visits a dressmaker with far less skill and less expensive material, and receives her dress. Now, as we a know Vera Wang is in no danger of being priced out by such vendors. Because she has brides all across the country and the world who would not compromise on quality for their item. But more importantly they have the cash to splash. This is called a free market economy.
To be so threatened and hostile towards a mother attempting to simply have a go at starting her own business (and, doing something she clearly loves) suggests you are not confident in the quality of your own work.
Perhaps you folks might just take a breath (have a cup of tea, perhaps?) and gain a little perspective before you accuse a home baker mother of threatening to bring down the entire cake industry...
Are you the mother that you have referred to? When a new member starts off an attack in this manner, I automatically think Troll or vengeance.
it comes as no surprise that some owners take out their aggression on unsuspecting newbies---like a warped initiation or something--just check the not so distant archives--if any reasonable person reads some of these threads they would respond as allthingsnice1 has --
i am not commenting in particular on the nuances of this thread because i've read it before--recently there was a pile on on a chick who clearly stated she had a tragedy and part of her recovery was baking--oh we take no hostages--
mimi, idk--allthingsnice1 says they read the thread and i did read op's posts and op describes herself as atn1 states by post #6, a mom and a baker with a sweet new order for her new business--
troll or no troll--vengeance or voice of god
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our favorite bush to hide behind 
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Perhaps you folks might just take a breath (have a cup of tea, perhaps?) and gain a little perspective before you accuse a home baker mother of threatening to bring down the entire cake industry...
No one is accusing her of single-handedly taking down the entire cake industry. That would be absurd. But the more people who think this way, the more devalued the work of a custom cake artist becomes. You may not think one person undercharging will cause any harm, but it's never just one person. When you get a lot of people starting cake "businesses" and charging barely enough to cover materials (and not give a thought to charging for labor or allowing a profit), they drag the market down with them. Say a potential client emails me and 3 or 4 other cake businesses at the same time looking for a quote (and yes, they do this- cast a wide net and see what comes back). I quote a fair price based on my materials, labor, overhead, and profit. The other 3 businesses quote $100 less than me because they have no idea how to properly charge for a cake and think they are getting compensated at that price. What is the client going to think? That I'm overcharging and greedy? Or that I'm charging what I should and the other three are undercharging?
It is true that everyone will have different costs based on their overhead, but as someone said upthread (can't remember who, sorry!) there should be a base price for custom work that no one goes below. Of course I don't charge as much as Ron Ben Israel or Sylvia Weinstock. But I do charge what I need to in order to pay myself a decent wage (I'm talking $10-$15 an hour for skilled labor, this is not exorbitant).
AWill you all just stop it!!! I'm sure if the op sold a cake for less than you all.. I'm pretty sure she did not break your bank account, or took a client from you. Which by the way... I sell a cake for whatever price I feel like!!! I'll give it away if I want! Some of you on here are not giving advise.. You are only trying to control the situation! Geez!!! ...Now please.. Go somewhere and Give good advise and stop..all this! ( I was reading this thread to get info..but now, I'll just give the darn cake away)
A
Original message sent by justmeandacake
Will you all just stop it!!! I'm sure if the op sold a cake for less than you all.. I'm pretty sure she did not break your bank account, or took a client from you. Which by the way... I sell a cake for whatever price I feel like!!! I'll give it away if I want! Some of you on here are not giving advise.. You are only trying to control the situation! Geez!!! ...Now please.. Go somewhere and Give good advise and stop..all this! ( I was reading this thread to get info..but now, I'll just give the darn cake away)
I think you posted this in the wrong place...this is the Cake Decorating Business forum, you probably want the Cake Decorating Charity forum.
AUmm.. Yes, Jason.. I'm sure that's probably the forum I need to search for. Thanks for the advise.. Have a great holiday!
A
Original message sent by justmeandacake
Umm.. Yes, Jason.. I'm sure that's probably the forum I need to search for. Thanks for the advise.. Have a great holiday!
No problem! I also recommend looking into Icing Smiles, they are a nonprofit organization that works with local bakers to help them donate cakes to kids.
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Will you all just stop it!!! I'm sure if the op sold a cake for less than you all.. I'm pretty sure she did not break your bank account, or took a client from you. Which by the way... I sell a cake for whatever price I feel like!!! I'll give it away if I want! Some of you on here are not giving advise.. You are only trying to control the situation! Geez!!! ...Now please.. Go somewhere and Give good advise and stop..all this! ( I was reading this thread to get info..but now, I'll just give the darn cake away)
Um, no, I'm not trying to "control" anything. Ultimately I don't give a rat's patootie what she charges. Or what you charge. If you want to give the cake away, feel free. Just realize that if you start doing a lot of cakes, (especially very elaborate, custom designed cakes) and you do them all for peanuts (or free) you WILL get burned out. People WILL take advantage. And you should not call yourself a business if you charge whatever price you feel like.
The OP may not have personally taken a client from me, but people that think like her and charge like her take my potential clients every day. The point is that if someone is going to do this as a business, they need to be educated about pricing. Everyone starts somewhere, I don't expect someone who's new to the cake business to automatically know all of this. But when you come on here and tell people who make their livelihood doing this (as in, this is how they feed their families and pay their mortgage) that you don't care and you're just going to charge whatever you can to get the job, that means you don't care to learn how to properly price. Why would someone even come on here and ask if their price is appropriate if they are just going to argue with someone who tries to teach them? What's the point?!
A
Original message sent by LoveMeSomeCake615
Um, no, I'm not trying to "control" anything. Ultimately I don't give a rat's patootie what she charges. Or what you charge. If you want to give the cake away, feel free. Just realize that if you start doing a lot of cakes, (especially very elaborate, custom designed cakes) and you do them all for peanuts (or free) you WILL get burned out. People WILL take advantage. And you should not call yourself a business if you charge whatever price you feel like.
The OP may not have personally taken a client from me, but people that think like her and charge like her take my potential clients every day. The point is that if someone is going to do this as a business, they need to be educated about pricing. Everyone starts somewhere, I don't expect someone who's new to the cake business to automatically know all of this. But when you come on here and tell people who make their livelihood doing this (as in, this is how they feed their families and pay their mortgage) that you don't care and you're just going to charge whatever you can to get the job, that means you don't care to learn how to properly price. Why would someone even come on here and ask if their price is appropriate if they are just going to argue with someone who tries to teach them? What's the point?!
Great post, but if you want to be taken seriously you should consider adding more exclamation points. Some name-calling couldn't hurt either.
Wow, wonders never cease. THREE posts in a row from Jason that didn't irritate the dickens out of me, and I actually ENJOYED them. Mind. Blown.
I am always amazed at what some people deem to be mean.
I think it is incredibly cruel to nod encourage someone to work below market value...to work for less than minimum wage...to cheer them on to burn out.
Instead, I try to point out any overlooked costs and encourage investigation and research. I honestly and truly want to encourage, but I am not willing to do so to someone's detriment.
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I am always amazed at what some people deem to be mean.
I think it is incredibly cruel to nod encourage someone to work below market value...to work for less than minimum wage...to cheer them on to burn out.
Instead, I try to point out any overlooked costs and encourage investigation and research. I honestly and truly want to encourage, but I am not willing to do so to someone's detriment.
i am new at cake making and i would love to have my first wedding cake order, an if i have to be low priced to do it , until i become better and better at it than i am wonderfully happy to get the experience. I have done a couple fake wedding cakes for display when time and my client will know the price is for a decorator newer to the business and charging according to the experience. And when i get enough wedding cakes that i have done to get a photo album started to see my work for weddings than my price will go up. Almost anything you do in life your experience dictates your wages. Hardly anyone starts at the top .
Yes, experience dictates wages, but you must be careful to give yourself a living wage. Do not enslave yourself in the name of "experience." If you do not feel confident enough in your decorating abilities to charge accordingly then keep your business very small and practice until you can charge correctly. It's really difficult sometimes to figure out pricing, particularly when charging more for a cake than we bakers can afford ourselves, but cake decorating is an art form. I am fortunate to have a wealthy demographic that will pay me accordingly, but I still take awhile to figure out a price and sometimes I'm off the mark.…(I bake a few cakes a month, not interested in growing my business, referral only.)
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Almost anything you do in life your experience dictates your wages. Hardly anyone starts at the top .
Yes, but there is generally a standard wage (especially for specialty work like custom cakes) that even beginners are paid in any industry, and it doesn't go below that.
Ron Ben Israel is at the top of the cake industry, right? His website says most of his clients end up paying about $15 per serving, and he has a minimum order of $500.
http://www.weddingcakes.com/#/questions-and-answers/
No one here is suggesting that a beginner "start at the top" and charge $15 per serving. What we are suggesting is that you are charging enough to truly cover your costs, labor, overhead, and profit.
AI'm not sure how to do the quote on here.. Nor I'm here often enough to care. But, Norasmom... Thank you for the advise. It makes a lot of sense. And we all can learn from persons like you! That's the type of advise that should be given out ..not a bunch of thoughtless words! Again, thank you!
No one gives advise; they give advice. You are advised of a situation happening. You can then give advice about how to approach that situation..
If you are going to yell at someone for giving decent advice, use the right word.
And no one was trying to dictate anything to anyone... just give people food for thought. I know in the beginning I had no idea what really went into pricing a cake. I was WAY off, and I was so grateful for people who told it to me straight. People always get so bent out of shape when they don't hear what they want to hear. Such is life. This is the internet. You are talking to thousands of people you don't know and have no real bearing on your life. Don't like what you read? Just ignore it and keep giving your blood sweat and tears away for WalMart prices.
There is room in this industry for any number of different business models. You just have to decide which you want to use. Want to do a bunch of more simple cakes on the cheap? Great! There are many who make a wonderful wage doing volume work. Just don't do amazing super custom cakes and sell them like they were grocery store cakes. It does us all a disservice. Like it or not... that is the truth. In a business like this that is so over saturated with mediocrity and people selling things for $10.00 "profit", undercutting really does make it so much more difficult for those who do this to support their families.
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