This thread has made me sick! I have received help from the government in the form of medicaid and WIC. A few months before I was married my husband lost his job at the prison he worked at. He found a job two weeks before our wedding day. This job did not allow him to add me to his insurance since I was not his wife yet. He could not enroll me in it until November and it was February. I too found a job but it did not offer insurance for me. Three months later I was pregnant with no insurance. My baby was born 4 MONTHS PREMATURE! Medicaid was our only hope. WIC provided me with a breast pump to give my baby breast milk that is so important for a baby this early. If we would have not received that help my child would not be here today. Are you going to sit there and tell me that your tax dollars would be better spent on something useless instead of saving my daughters life. She is my avatar. LOOK AT HER! LOOK AT HER! By the way, she is no longer in these programs. I DID NOT take advantage of the government. It just happened at a bad time. Yet, I got those same looks for trying to save my daughters life! Stop your whining and judging and go spend your precious money on what YOU think is SOOOOOOO important!
Can I call an "exhaustion" clause on this subject?
I agree with you. I didn't mean to start a serious discussion here, just kind of have people laugh with me. I feel like we should all be on the O'Reilly factor or something.
Did it ever occur to you that people may have already been to the bottom and fought their way back to the top? Sometimes hard things need to be said and I sorry that it hurts your feelings but it is what it is. A lot of people put themselves in bad situations... the sooner they take ownership for that the sooner they can recover. Your last comment is really distrubing and makes no sense. Quitting a job and not paying taxes = not having food or a place to live. Neither of those are acceptable options![/quote]
I wholeheartedly agree!!!
When I was in high school I learned that I had $5.50/week to spend on my lunch. That's IT... If I wanted more, I needed to get a job which wasn't happening because I already was raising livestock and was involved in a lot of organizational/volunteer work. Most weeks, I had leftover money because I knew a cheeseburger, no pickle, no mustard was going to cost me $.87 at Hardees. I would save up and every other week I'd be able to get something else. Needless to say I can only stomach burgers about 2x per year now... Fast forward to college, and I had less than $100 or less to work with per month for food on a low glycemic diet. I made due with what I had and actually ate better than most of the other students because I made my own meals and budgeted, when times got hard, I knew how to cut back on my expenses without going hungry.. Fast forward to after I got married and my income dropped to almost nothing because of being shut out from a lot of my work hours, and you'll find my food budget for the house (DH, DD, and myself) isn't much higher than where I was in college.. Could I whine and tell DH I need more money for food, yea, probably, but what is there to gain? We've got plenty and none of us are going hungry. We also are putting ourselves into a far better position financially for the long term by doing so and not being afraid of the word "NO" when it comes to teaching our daughter financial responsibility from a young age.
When I heard about the food stamp challenge, and that "30 days" guy, I had to outright LAUGH. Those people saying "it's impossible" are the ones who cannot distinguish between a WANT and a NEED. You WANT bottled water, but you don't NEED it (that's why they have bubblers! - that's water fountains to the rest of ya'll). You WANT a double-cafe mocha latte, but you don't NEED it. You WANT luxurious things, but you don't NEED them. They recently offered a challenge to chefs here that they had to create a HEALTHY menu that fit within that budget. Only one accepted the challenge and came up with meals to have money left over but was still trodded upon because he proved it CAN be done.
Walk a mile in a man's shoes, you'll be a mile away and have his shoes... None of us here are bashing anyone who has needed assistance to get themselves back up off the ground or medicaid when it's impossible to get another form of insurance (though I will complain about it covering the cost of birth control, fertility treatments, and condoms). No one here is kicking someone while they're down. What most people here are trying to communicate is that there needs to be a better way of changing the system to help prevent the mentality of entitlement to these programs over the span of generations, break the cycle and get it back to the point where it simply helps people get back on their feet with the little push to say it's time for you to soar again. We all know people who have ligitimately need/ed the help, we all know people who abuse the system as well. And, we all know a LOT MORE bakers who would donate their time to people who need a lift to learn how to bake or take a staffer on who just need a little money to get by this week.
wow, I just woke up to another 4 pages, yikes! Janette, I adore your posts, always have. No need to explain yourself! I think just from lurking on the boards I can tell you're very "Scarlett", and so am I. 
I understand your take on this topic, and I myself do get passionate about a lot of things...like parents who don't watch their children in department stores and then say "behave or that lady is going to yell at you".... like its my job to raise your kids lady! So I understand that you have worked hard for what you have and youre proud, I am proud of what I have too, but I also feel for those who aren't abusers of the system, like my sister.
Oh My Goodies, don't feel sad for my situation, it lasted 3 months. Long enough for me to know what its like. I have a great life now and I really can't complain about anything except that there are too many lawyers in my life...lol... but I think you make some great points too. I think at this point though, we all agree, the abusers are the issue, not the people who really need it. I could tell you guys stories for hours about the stuff I have seen in my short life, but that's another thread, and I am more of a lurker, not a poster.
I personally think that this discussion, although a sad topic, is healthy and important. Maybe it will encourage some of our non-voting cc'ers to do just that, VOTE. I swear, sometimes I feel like my husband and I are the only 2 Republicans in the whole state of Massachusetts, but yet we go and vote every time, because those that don't vote are giving up thier RIGHT to complain about the politicians in office. I have always said, when you turn 18, sign up to vote so that your voice can be heard, even if its only a whisper in a loud roar. If you abstain, how can you complain about whats going on in the world? JMHO...don't kill me here! I also think that the worst two subjects to talk about in mixed company is religon and politics. Its just bad, all around. As far as this turning into a discussion about the war, you guys, there are a ton of military wives here missing their husbands... so don't go there. Be mad about it all you want, I personally am a peaceful person and think war sucks, but when it comes down to it, I am not the one fighting it! My friends and family are over there dying for what they believe in. Granted, not all fall into this category, but I emplore you to support the troops. If they believe in what they are doing, support them!!! The people are what matter most, and I have seen soldiers thanked when coming home, and I have seen them attacked verbally by anti war people and it hurts them... SO SUPPORT THE DAMN TROOPS!!!
now I'll get off my soap box and take off, because as I said I am more of a lurker anyway. 
excuse my spelling and grammar, I just woke up and haven't had my caffiene yet.
Did you see that dress in the mall?
How 'bout those Cardinals?
Diane
I am another one that can't believe this is still going. People, please, call you congressman, call Dr. Phil, but please put this to rest. The heat in this kitchen is burning the cakes!!!
Yes, yes, yes! I call this type of stuff "cak drama".
dress ?? What dress ?? I haven't owned one since i was in my teens. You have to shave your legs to wear a dress !! I leave my hair long to hold up my pants !
Cardinals..my grandson is going to the next game. He's 7, and that's all he talks about !
in my days. I noticed that people on foodstamps get way more per month then what I spent on food, for the same amount of people in my family. I was shocked when I founded out. It is the matter of learning how to shop and budget. When I was young, my husband and I was on assisance . I know for a fact that by buying food and cooking from scratch kept us within budget. But with the Lord's help, my husband started off with a minial job, went to school and worked himself out of assistance. Assistance was meant to help you while you get on your feet and get a job , not stay on it. As for the young lady who wanted a cke for her friend's baby shower. It was noble of her,but she had to consider her own family first. I known of people who slurged and was out of money and food before the end of the month. But look at this way , yes she was on food stamps and only wanted to spend $15.00 on a cake that was worth way more, but what about the ones that have plenty of money and still is too cheap to pay what you want for a cake?
I have always been more of a "lurker" so I am sometimes unfamiliar with the rules of forums and posting and such. So I am a little confused by the people that don't want the discussion to continue. Can't they just stop watching? or unsubscribe or something?
Nope, discuss all you want...it's healthy. What isn't healthy is tearing each other apart. I guess that lionladydi and i are both from about the same area. Our states touch, apparently so do our hearts. Life's too short, almost lost my husband, guess i'm feeling sentimental. Sorry if it offends. Just needed a little laughter in my life. I intend to keep reading, because i respect everyones views, some i don't agree with, but i will fight for their right to have them...hoping they will fight for me , too.
As my daughter would say.........."I've got a cousin in Kentucky."
Diane
It's funny that we are "uppity" because we believe changes should be made to a system that is so easy to abuse. I guess I'm the uppitiest one here!
There are things that we can do to help the problem indirectly. I (along with my sorority) work with "at risk" teen girls to expose them to new things, prepare them for college, and help them break the cycle of poverty they are in. There's a way out of this cycle and I intend to help my girls find that path.
Nope, discuss all you want...it's healthy. What isn't healthy is tearing each other apart. I guess that lionladydi and i are both from about the same area. Our states touch, apparently so do our hearts. Life's too short, almost lost my husband, guess i'm feeling sentimental. Sorry if it offends. Just needed a little laughter in my life. I intend to keep reading, because i respect everyones views, some i don't agree with, but i will fight for their right to have them...hoping they will fight for me , too.
Exactly! BTW I'm not mad at anyone even if you called me stupid. You might be right. 
dress ?? What dress ?? I haven't owned one since i was in my teens. You have to shave your legs to wear a dress !! I leave my hair long to hold up my pants !
Cardinals..my grandson is going to the next game. He's 7, and that's all he talks about !
Hey shturpin, since you are trying to change the subject, someone asked me today if I was pregnant, and I am NOT. Read this http://www.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopicp-4815273-.html#4815273
"None of us here are bashing anyone who has needed assistance to get themselves back up off the ground or medicaid when it's impossible to get another form of insurance (though I will complain about it covering the cost of birth control, fertility treatments, and condoms)"
Are you flipping kidding me? Of all things, you'd complain about medicaid covering BIRTH CONTROL? But at the same time, complain about all these women popping out children to remain on / receive more welfare? Shoot, if there are women on assistance out there who are responsible enough to protect themselves from bringing a / another child into this world that they know they can't afford, then more power to them!
3 years ago, I got pregnant, completely unexpectedly. I was nowhere near being financially ready, but I chose to have my beautiful daughter, work my butt off and take whatever help I could get. 3 years later, I am completely self sufficient, have a wonderful job, a beautiful home, etc - thanks to the system. If they hadn't been there to help me to my feet, who knows where I'd be today. I am thankful that the system was there for me when I needed it and I am thankful that, well....that I no longer need it.
I'm not commenting on anything, I'm not siding with anyone. I'm just posting this as an informative idea as to where your (and mine) tax dollars, do in fact go. This discussion made me curious, I did some research.
http://www.fcnl.org/pdfs/taxday.pdf
edited to add another link on here that is an interesting article too.
http://finance.yahoo.com/taxes/article/102817/How-Your-Tax-Dollars-Are-Spent
Ummm would anyone care for a cupcake and a cuppa while we all remember everyone is entitled to an opinion, everyone has feelings, we have all suffered hardships (some more than others), real wealth is measured by family and friends who love you and that the one directive from God we should all follow is do unto others what you would have done to you (or however that saying goes).
Thank you for the links, wysmommy. The first link is propaganda from an anti-war group. The second link is an article from Kiplinger. More reliable imho.
"All types of aid to the needy -- Medicaid, housing subsidies, aid to poor families with children (welfare, which accounts for about 1 percent of the budget), food stamps, school lunches and so on, plus unemployment benefits -- account for about 16 percent of the budget.
In fact, all government payments to individuals amount to about 58 percent of the budget."
Yikes. And you'd better believe that Joe Taxpayer has a right say what is and what is not appropriate to use that money for. It's called voting, writing your elected and appointed officials and making your voice heard.
Wow, I pop onto cake central and find this post.
We all have our own opinions on how our system of government should provide assistance to those in need and to whom they should provide it to.
While it is good that we take interest in the subject, and express our views- the only way things will change is by going out and voting.
Indeed there are people who abuse the system. And when people who are not in need of assistance see this happening- it really tends to shape a negative image of the system as a whole. But let's not forget the people who are getting assistance who are not abusing the system.
So let's all take a breath and cool our heels a bit. We're only getting ourselves worked up And getting mad at each other isn't going to solve the problem. When it's time to hit the polls, we should be voicing our opinions there with our vote. 
I can see how some would want this to die...its one of those topics.....
and honestly as its been pointed out to me before in another thread...im usually one who will try to side track it when it gets too hot, when I should jsut let it ride out to be discussed
this one is hard for me though because I think where things got really heated and why there are so many emotions into it came from the comment of "they DONT have a RIGHT to cake"....I know it immediately set me off.
I dont think its anybodys place...whether they are well off or better off now than they were growing up or downright dirt poor even now to tell anyone what they deserve or dont deserve.
regardless of WHERE the money is coming from....regardless of WHO is paying for it.....regardless of HOW they got on assistance or made it without.....where does anyone get off telling their neighbor....stranger...person in front of them in the grocery line what they should and shouldnt buy....what they should and shouldnt eat??
.....I have 5 kids...we live off my husbands income alone...thats it...
we are not on assistance....we do our best to make it....we get what we have to and sometimes we have more than we need...there are times we stress and worry how we'll make it...especially around birthdays, school starting and even summer starting....do my kids not have a right to birthday cakes either? am I now a bad parent because I opted to step outside our budget tonight and order pizza for the kids tonight....is that not within their rights either?? we dont do it all the time....but we do do it occassionally for the kids....are my kids not allow those kinds of privledges because my income is less than some of you??......or is that all ok because Im NOT on assistance??
It shouldnt matter one way or the other because its MY place to care for MY family My place to decide if MY kids deserve cake for their birthday or not...or if I want to contribute to my best friends baby shower with cake...... not any of yours...and most definitely not the grocery store or baker if I decided to order it.
when I go to the grocery store with my 5 kids in tow and do my grocery shopping and I throw a steak on the counter and a bottle of wine...but pay with cash or my credit card.....is that ok...justifiable? or am I being judged also because I have 5 kids and a steak on the counter?
I'd bet money if you were behind me with the twins pulling each other's hair and my 5 and 7 yr old trying to trip each other and my teenager standing arms folded pissed off about god knows what....you'd all think pop the wine open now lady....but what kills me in this thread is obviously if I was paying for my food items in foodstamps you'd think something completely different!? 
that to me is lower than abuse of the system
I'd bet money if you were behind me with the twins pulling each other's hair and my 5 and 7 yr old trying to trip each other and my teenager standing arms folded pissed off about god knows what....you'd all think pop the wine open now lady....but what kills me in this thread is obviously if I was paying for my food items in foodstamps you'd think something completely different!?
that to me is lower than abuse of the system
Thank you. Well said. This is part of what I was so clumsily trying to say with my Secret Santa example but you are far more eloquent.
I am having a great deal of trouble with the hypocrasy and nasty assumptions. I really have come to expect more from CCers
Ok I came back. My inbox was flooded with emails saying there were new posts. Well put twinsline, well put! Now only if CRISCO would listen to those words and give us back our trans fats!!!!
this one is hard for me though because I think where things got really heated and why there are so many emotions into it came from the comment of "they DONT have a RIGHT to cake"....I know it immediately set me off.
I think you misunderstood what she meant when she said the person didn't have a right to cake. My understanding of what she meant was that cake was a luxury item that nobody...on assistance or otherwise...has a right to. There's a difference in having a right to order pizza for your children and having a right to pizza. The first implies that you have made the necessary allowances to provide for their pizza....when the pizza guy shows up, you will pay him. The second, the right to the product, implies the sense of entitlement, that whether or not you can afford it, you have the right to call up the pizza place and they have to provide you with pizza because you have the "right" to it.
I probably stuck my nose in where it didn't belong there, but everbody else is sticking their noses in, so why not mine, too? 
I am sure most of us have heard the expression "hate the game not the player." This could be applied here as well. The "system" allows the abuse and misuse of it. The people using it for the most part don't know any better or haven't been taught any better. A large part of the people on it (whether they are "abusing" it or not) are part of a cycle that is extremely difficult to break free from. I think its great that some have the ability to budget so tightly but not everyone can.
We are being too quick to blame the person who is for the most part at the bottom of the totem pole. You are not going to solve anything by complaining about what people spend their food stamps on. If anything you will just incite those individuals to continue. It may be hard for some to believe but what they shop for at the grocery store may be one of the few things they can chose themselves.
Complain about THE SYSTEM not the people on it.
I am sure most of us have heard the expression "hate the game not the player." This could be applied here as well. The "system" allows the abuse and misuse of it. The people using it for the most part don't know any better or haven't been taught any better. A large part of the people on it (whether they are "abusing" it or not) are part of a cycle that is extremely difficult to break free from. I think its great that some have the ability to budget so tightly but not everyone can.
We are being too quick to blame the person who is for the most part at the bottom of the totem pole. You are not going to solve anything by complaining about what people spend their food stamps on. If anything you will just incite those individuals to continue. It may be hard for some to believe but what they shop for at the grocery store may be one of the few things they can chose themselves.
Complain about THE SYSTEM not the people on it.
I think that this is absolutely true, especially the part about this being a viscious cycle to break free from. Children learn from their parents. Unfortunately, when a child grows up in a household that is on assistance and mis-manages their money, that child is much mroe likely to follow the same path. It's all about education - and a lot of these lower income families just don't know any better.
For instance, I have a little girl who is almost 3. She is the most well behaves, well mannered 3 year old I have ever met, literally. It's always, "Please Mommy, Thank you, Can I help you?," etc....because I have RAISED her that way. I also have instated a chore program where she cleans her room, keeps her playroom tidy, goes potty (training!), has a good day at school, etc. For each day she completes her chores, she is rewarded with a star sticker for her chart. After 10 star stickers, she can trade that chart in for a new game, toy or DVD. She ie learning the importance of earning what she wants and how to make wise decisions as to how to spend her "money". Even at this early age, I believe these values are crucial.
A friend of mine, on the other hand, has a daughter about the same age as mine who is the exact opposite. This friend of mine was never taught basic housekeeping, money management, the value of a dollor or manners. Therefore, her daughter is rude, never said please or thank you, throws a hissy fit at least once a day, does nothing to help around the house (not even clean up her own toys, which is al I expect of my daughter), etc.
My point is...it's all about how you're raised. THE SYSTEM is what allows people to abuse their benefits. Write your congressman, write the whitehouse, throw a parade...arguing about this on here isn't going to do squat. Some people just don't know how to manage their money....they just don't know how to look for sales, clip coupons...some may not realize exactly how much is in their cart until they get to check out...there needs to be restrictions to HELP these people.
I think you misunderstood what she meant when she said the person didn't have a right to cake. My understanding of what she meant was that cake was a luxury item that nobody...on assistance or otherwise...has a right to. There's a difference in having a right to order pizza for your children and having a right to pizza. The first implies that you have made the necessary allowances to provide for their pizza....when the pizza guy shows up, you will pay him. The second, the right to the product, implies the sense of entitlement, that whether or not you can afford it, you have the right to call up the pizza place and they have to provide you with pizza because you have the "right" to it.
am I reading that correctly??? So....if a person is on any type of goverment assistance they dont have RIGHTS to luxury items ever?? .....do you also feel the same that since I made the choice to stay home and care for my 5 kids I dont have a right to a break? wouldnt a break be a luxury for me?do I not have a right to it because I made the choices to be in this crazy house???....and honestly I'd dare someone to tell me that to my face!
as far as the pizza goes...would it be the same if I hadn't said we're not on assistance? What if I was on assistance and still budgeted and had a little extra for pizza....would it still be ok for me to order it...or does it change?
In order for me to order pizza...that means I have to manuever my grocery or gas money next week....does that mean if I paid for my groceies with foodstamps then my kids should ONLY eat what is eligible for foodstamps they are never allowed a splurge if afforable?
....Im just not getting how anyone can think its any different!!??.....
I think you misunderstood what she meant when she said the person didn't have a right to cake. My understanding of what she meant was that cake was a luxury item that nobody...on assistance or otherwise...has a right to. There's a difference in having a right to order pizza for your children and having a right to pizza. The first implies that you have made the necessary allowances to provide for their pizza....when the pizza guy shows up, you will pay him. The second, the right to the product, implies the sense of entitlement, that whether or not you can afford it, you have the right to call up the pizza place and they have to provide you with pizza because you have the "right" to it.
am I reading that correctly??? So....if a person is on any type of goverment assistance they dont have RIGHTS to luxury items ever?? .....do you also feel the same that since I made the choice to stay home and care for my 5 kids I dont have a right to a break? wouldnt a break be a luxury for me?do I not have a right to it because I made the choices to be in this crazy house???....and honestly I'd dare someone to tell me that to my face!
If you read the part you bolded, she said on assistance or otherwise. So she's not singling out people on assistance. And her examples were consistent with that. No one can call a pizza place and expect to get a pizza for free. I think Laura was trying to say that people have no RIGHT to a free pizza, or a free cake, or a discounted pizza or a discounted cake. For what it's worth, I totally agree with her. If a person can't afford a designer cake from a high-end bakery, then they can't afford it...the business owner should not discount his/her prices based on every individual's situation. Publix won't do that, nor will Wal-Mart...why should a cake decorator on this site do that?
No one is saying that you don't deserve a break during the day. But every time you take a break, there is a trade off...something doesn't get done around the house, or you have to pay a baby-sitter, etc. Just like the woman who wanted to buy the expensive cake...her trade off was that she had to have the money to pay for it, and she didn't, so she couldn't get the cake. It's not about rights, it's about what one can afford do.
To continue your analogy, would you expect a baby-sitter to work for free because you have a right to take a break? Where would you find a sitter to work for free?
This is my first post, but I've been lurking on this site for about 6 months. I don't know how many times I've seen bakers post stories about all the crazy ways people try to get discounts for cakes. Or stories about customers trying to get more than they can afford for their wedding or party. So I'm really confused about this thread. Why are there so many people saying that this person (because they are on assistance) should be able to get something she obviously couldn't afford? Why should this particular customer get a discount on her cake?
"Why are there so many people saying that this person (because they are on assistance) should be able to get something she obviously couldn't afford? Why should this particular customer get a discount on her cake?"
If you read through all the posts, this discussion is not about people thinking this gal should get a designer cake for next to nothing. This all started because people were outraged that a person on food stamps can buy a grocery store birthday cake.
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