Everyone,

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything, but I was wondering something. When I look at the gallery pictures, it seems like ALL people do is say "nice job" "very pretty" stuff like that.

While I would NEVER EVER say something mean (like OOH, that's awful), I would like to make constructive criticism to help people. I would always point out the positive, but think people also could grow as a decorator from some pointers.

For example, there was one cake with basketweave, and you could see the crumb-coat through the basketweave at points. I merely said what a great job they did, but to try to make the crumb coat the same color as the weave so any gaps don't get noticed. Or there was a cake with four flowers on top, and I know that using odd numbers is more pleasing to the eye (from what I have been taught and learned). So I wanted to mention that, but then again all I ever see is the vanilla nice job comments.

I, personally, want to get honest feedback (but like I said, in a constructive manner). How about the rest of you. I certainly don't want to make anyone sad or angry. I love being here and contributing, I just don't know whether I should or not.

I feel that when people post their pics they are wanting to show you what they have done. If someone specifically asks for constructive criticism then I will gladly give it. Otherwise, you may hurt the feelings of someone that was sooooo proud of what they have just accomplished (if they were simply wanting to show what they had done). But this is just my opinion.

I wouldn't mind it myself, but I think many people would just get their feelings hurt. I don't give "help" unless they specifically ask for it in the forum.

We could start a new forum named "How could I improve this cake?" People could ask for help. That would be very interesting to me.

IMO:
MOST of us here don't know each other personally.. We are just Internet Friends.. We don't know exactly how one will act towards constructive criticism.. Maybe newbies come here to hear the UP side of their cakes, although knowing they have flaws. Here is the place for self esteem.. Maybe just send "them" a PM.. Stating what they can do next time to hide this or that.. Sort of a "tip" factor.. I personally don't think that constructive criticism should be displayed on their photo comments.

I agree with brainsbaker pm would be the way to go. I know I like an honest opinion but when I work really hard on a cake I cant say my feeling wouldnt be hurt, so yea a pm with tips would be great I think. Just my thought!!!!!!!!!!!

I totally agree with the responses so far. There are Children posting their pictures here and they need encouragement to keep at it not constructive criticism. I have gotten that kind of criticism on some of my cakes and sometimes I think, If I had wanted that type of opinion I would have posted a forum and asked for it.

IMHO I think the forum is for that kind of opnions. You see some that do that. I get enough constructive criticism from my family and friends that can see the cake in person. Most of the time photos DON'T do the cake justice.

I thought I would add my 2 cents on this one...
I am definitly not a proffesional, there are so many of you on this forum that have done this a lot longer and are a lot better than me. I come to this forum for encouragement AND to learn things. (I did not know the thing about odd number of flowers THANKS for that tip) When I posted some of my cake pics in the gallery I knew they were not perfect, but I felt pretty good about them. The nice comments I got made me feel so good and proud. I sent the link to my friends, they joined just to see my cake gallery page. While I do want to learn, I must admit if someone had put something even a little negative it might of hurt my feelings, and embarrased me since my friends were looking. I agree that a pm would be a good thing to do if you see someone making a mistake that you can help them with, or if you see the same mistake being made in different photos you could always write a "things I have learned post" and address everyone not singling anyone out.

sometimes if I see that the cake is horrid, I wouldn't make a comment at all. As what they say, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.. but I agree with you...there is nothing wrong about constructive criticism, because that's how we all learn, but that all depends how the other person will take it. But sometimes it is purely common sense...I'm sure it does not take a genuis or rocket scientist to tell you that your cake looks terrible esp. when you can make comparisons with the other photos that really look fabulous. Just like on American Idol, those people know they can't sing, but they try just to be on TV and for everyone to see and to make fun of. These are my feeling s and thoughts Have a wonderful day everyone.

I agree, unless a person says, "Hey I can handle it, how can I improve and please don't hold back", I wouldn't say anything, not even in a Pm. You really have to know the person well to even offer constructive criticism and what might seem constructive to you or I, may just seem negative and hurtful to someone else. Some people don't choose their words as carefully as others and someone could really take the remarks badly.
So if people really want the critiques they will ask for them, otherwise they are sharing their work and their pride in completely the project at whatever skill level they are at.
I agree with you about odd numbers being more pleasing to the eye, that is a basic design concept but not one everyone is familiar with. Also the presentation, the board the cake is on, what it is covered with and the colours used - all add to the effect. But even with colour, we have to realize that what is pleasing colourwise can have a lot to do with the country of origin or nationality or simply colour preferences, so that is a touchy area to get into.
Most people do see every single fault on their own work, in fact that is usually what makes them eventually become wonderful decorators. Personally, I find that the people that think everything they do is perfect, are perhaps not as fussy or particular or just don't see the little areas where they could improve and they are happy with what they consider to be "good enough". Perfection isn't something that everyone is looking to attain.
And sometimes you can see something that you could help the decorator easily rectify, but unless they point out the problem, you are likely best off not saying anything. It just isn't worth it because it might prove to be viewed as critical or discouraging.
At least, that is how I see it.
Hugs Squirrelly

I completely agree with the other posters. You do not have to leave a comment, and if it isn't a nice one, you shouldn't. If people want help improving a cake, they will ask. If they aren't asking for constructive criticism, don't offer it.

Also, the flowers in odd numbers--that's just a guideline. I have seen many beautiful cakes where an even number was perfectly suited to the particular cake it was on.

I agree with gma1956...I think if someone is looking for constructive criticism on a cake, they should post in a forum, and not look for it as a comment on a picture.

If someone felt compelled to provide constructive criticism, they could always PM that person. That way there is still the postive comments on the pic they can show to friends, but they know what to do different next time.

Personally, I would only provide constructive criticism if asked.

I personally would not mind constructive criticism to help me out. As long as you are not nasty about it. I want to LEARN and improve in cake decorating. I know I am not a professional and I do have a far way to go. I do post my pics because I am proud of that particular cake. (Believe me everything I do, do NOT got posted) But I see on this site it's a different world. People feeling gets hurt very quickly, so I guess if you are asked for constructive criticism then by all means give it. If not, dont say anything at all. I mean for instance with the odd number of flowers I you only pm that person no one else would have learned that info.

Sorry but just my 2 cents.


Have a very nice day Ladies and Gentlemen.

My own family can take me out of context a lot so I have to be very careful how I say something on this forum - well, for the most part . If I see something that may not be quite so "perfect" I just keep my mouth shut. If I'm going to tell somebody they did a great job and then in the same breath turn around and tell them all the things "wrong" with them, they would probably be hurt and may not open up to someone else that may be able to help them. I am usually very "black/white" "right/wrong" with my family and friends. But you folks don't know me so I am aware that my way of communicating may not be understood by some. I try very hard to say things in the nicest way I can and don't always accomplish what I set out to do, but I do try to be aware of how I come across to others.

I have some cakes that I feel I could've done a lot better on and I'll make fun of it myself, which usually most of you (even if you're lying) tell me it's not nearly as bad as I think it is. If I post a picture of a cake I've done, it usually means I am proud of it and put forth an effort to make it look somewhat decent.

I personally wouldn't want some of you telling me that I did a terrible job if you've never spoken to me before. Here's the thing...if someone you just met comes up to you and the first thing out of their mouth is some critical comment they lose a lot of credibility when it comes time for them to really say something nice. Usually someone like that isn't interested in you or your work but in getting their own ideas across and making themselves look better.

We've been down this road before and some folks got bent out of shape and others feelings were hurt. There are a lot of us novices on here, most of whom need encouragement. Constructive criticism helps some but not others, therefore may belong in a PM, not necessarily for the world to see.

Personally, when I post a picture in the gallery, it's to put it into MY PHOTOS section. I think it's great when people add comments to my pictures because it makes me feel really good.

When I want constructive criticism on something I've made, I post it in the forum and specifically state that comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I want to know how I could have improved what I've done. The last few times I've asked for criticism is when I've done something for the first time and wanted to know how I could have improved it.

As for the PM on a picture, I don't think that's a good idea. Like someone stated, we don't really know anyone here personally. What someone may mean as constructive criticism, someone else can take as maybe berating them. JMHO

Leslie

In my opinion, I agree whole-heartedly with the dedicated forum suggestion and Dougs opinion that anyone posting in that forum would be doing so willingly and consciously so they would be prepared for the criticism. Im the first one to see (and point out) the flaws in my cakes but if I am not at least okay with how the cake turned out, I will not post it for all to see. I could be wrong, but it seems to me most people put on the work they are at least somewhat happy with or proud of. I have had cakes that Im very displeased with and would never post it here or even in a portfolio.

There are so many different personalities here and we are all at different stages in our abilities. While one might see a cake they consider to be flawed, the person who made it could be very proud of their first attempt. Any positive comments, Im sure, do a world of good to someone whos not that confident in their abilities. Negative comments could wreak havoc with their confidence and cause them to give up or at least never come back to CC again. Im pretty strong and not easily offended but to post a cake that Im happy with to have someone else tear apart (even if it wasnt intended that way) would probably upset me. Even vanilla or the general great jobs, are a boost to my cake decorator confidence.

I personally dont feel a PM is a good way of handling it either. Comments can spiral out of control if they arent worded right, even if they arent at all intended to be mean-spirited. I feel that for the most part, this is almost always a very upbeat site. I guess all Im trying to say is that if someone wants to hear constructive feedback, they should have the option of asking for it instead of having it thrown at them unexpectedly.

Renee

I agree, if someone wants advice, they will ask for it. i LOVE when someone puts good job on one of my cakes. I need all the support I can get. But when I really want someones advice I ask for it in the forums.
I would hate for anyone to think I thought I was better then them by giving constructive criticism when they didn't ask for my opinion.
Even when your just trying to "help" someone..... it always ends up getting twisted around and the drama begins.
Sooooooo.......... if you ask for my thoughts, I will give them...... but otherwise

I put my flame retardent undies on for this one...here goes.

I am assuming that most folks who use this site are serious about what they are doing?? For those that aren't stop reading here...

If you ARE serious about what you are doing use this site, for good or bad.

There are many fabulous minds at work here...talents abound and to not utilize them would be a gross mistake.

Would you rather hear constructive(negative) comments about your work from a member of this forum or from a customer that will pass on the negativity to other potential customers??

This is a tough, competitive business. I've seen many threads from members wondering why they aren't getting more orders, etc. That tells us that there is alot of competition out there. Improving your skills will help you in that area. The only way to improve those skills is practice and to get feedback from fellow decorators who are very generous in their willingness to help.

IMO there is nothing wrong with being proud of your efforts but there is always room for improvement, if that is what you are interested in.

I agree that some posters can be downright "mean" in their assessments but for the most part I think our members can give constructive criticism without being ugly about it.

I would not give unsolicited advice to anyone...but if they ask I am going to be honest...it does NOT help to merely stroke someones' ego if they are serious about building a business.

I love the idea of a forum for feedback...there are bits on each board, but it would be nice to be able to go one board, rather than searching through each.

I think we can all learn from eachother's mistakes and hints...even the pros can get reminders about technique from seeing what a newbie doesnt do so well...and as a newbie, I am thrilled when I get a positive comment on a cake--but my whole reason for being here is so I can learn and improve, so I would be even more thrilled to get some tips from the pros!

I agree with everyone too. I think that if someone asks for an opinion, then by all means give it, but be nice. If a picture is posted and you dont like it or find flaws just be nice or go to the next. There is no need to discourage anyone here. Many of us on this site are newbies and hobby cake bakers learning. We look forward to getting advise and tips, but usually we'll ask for it. Nobody wants to be told that what we have done and spent countless hours on is not perfect. I am my own worst critic. After I make a cake I am always picking at its flaws, but when my dear husband or a friend looks they don't see what I see. I know I am just rambling on, but generally what I mean to say is don't pick apart someones creation unless they ask for your opinion.

bubblezmom - Thanks for letting me know about those rules. They REALLY should be written somewhere. I guess unless we get that special forum for giving feedback on cakes, I'll keep my mouth shut.

I do think it's a shame though, because for my cakes, I might not even know to ask if I did something wrong or could have done something better. But with all the expertise here, I'm sure someone could help me improve somehow ...

MommyEdzards - It never occurred to me that someone would interpret my constructive criticizm as me saying I was superior to them.

fytar - I was always taught to give two compliments for every criticism, I've never seen things as black and white. And I can't imagine anyone saying someone did a terrible job, that's just cruel.

twindees - I agree, it's all about learning.

Thanks to everyone for their feedback. At least now I know about the two rules!

There are some points here that really are some that get my attention. I think that having a specific section on the forum for that purpose would be a GREAT idea. If you post a pic in there, you know you will get honest opinions from others about what you can do to improve. I personally keep at this becasuse I want to get better and having that kind of information available to us is invaluable (IMO)

I fully understand that people post in the gallery becasuse they are very proud of their work. I think it is great to check out someones pics and see the progress that they have made over time....it is very confidence building to see that! (look how far they have come!)

This is a wonderful site, and there is are so many talented people here who I am sure would offer some great advice to those who ask for it. Making it a section where you can go directly to would make it a lot easier for those of us who would use it. For those who may be offended about critisism, they wouldn't have to even go in there.

(my 2 cents for what it is worth!)

See that's what I mean... it gets twisted and the drama begins. What I meant is that is why I would not give advice without being asked. Someone would take one look at my cakes and think Who does she think she is? I wasn't directing that to you at all and I am sorry if you took it that way.[/u][/b]

Peachstate - I'm with you on this.
bb

Sometimes, in life, when you try to help someone, no matter how nicely you do/put it, they find it to be "rude", even though you are trying to help them out.

And yes, some people would interpret it as superiority. Even though to me, if someone has more knowledge and experience on a subject, I welcome their input, and value the help. Isn't that what mentors (generally speaking, not referring to CC) do?

So, I guess it's easier to just say nothing and let people learn things on their own.

But let's say you are an olympic hopeful. You're really good, but you could perfect certain aspects to make you even better. If another former olympian gave you some pointers, would you be offended?

No cake decorating is not the olympics. It's just an illustration.
Cake decorating is a fun hobby for most of us. But some of us want to step it up a notch. Lots to be learned from the pros.

I agree with the dedicated forum topic idea. I think that would be best.

As with those of us with children know-a "good job" on something that still needs improvement is a great moral booster. This site is for that-for learning and we all have bragging rights for any accomplishment we do. So many of you have soooooo much talent and those of us that are still learning look up to that and need the input from everyone. While some will take a crumb for encouragement-that crumb becomes the whole shebang of discouragement when something negative comes along. I am all for the dedicated forum-be guaranteed my pics will be there-I make mistakes-I know that and I trust the criticism will be constructive. While it might hurt a bit sometimes, we all need that pain to get better-just make sure it is accompanied with a "good job" about something..the idea, the style, the color-it makes the pain not hurt so much. Just MHO!