I agree with those that say that just post their pictures in the gallery to show them, rather than to get feed back on them. There are many posts in the forums with pictures and asking how they can improve their cakes. To me that is the best way to go if someone wants help with their cake.

If you see something that you just really feel you have to point out, I think the best thing to do is to send that person a personal message. That away it is between you and them, and not for the whole site to see. Plus you have more space and can right more, so that you can tell them good along with the bad.

I think we also have to consider a few things as well. One thing I have learned from cake decorating, as well as teaching is that we are our own worst critics. I have students that will do beautiful cakes in class and they can pin point every little teeny tiny thing they think is wrong with the cake. It may be things that no one else has noticed but they see it.

So it is interly possible that when people post a cake here they already know things that they did 'wrong' or things they can do to improve it next time. Added to our own feelings about cakes is family members. How many here have family members that are very honest about our cakes? How many ladies/gentlemen here have husbands/wives that feel the need to point out everything they find wrong with the cake? Maybe posting here is the only time they just get the "You did good," "wow, your flowers are very pretty," or "keep up the good work."

We also don't know why the person behind the cake is doing them. Yes there are many here that are professions and sell their cakes, but there are also those that are hobbiest or just obsessed with cake decorating. While I hope we all strive to better our skills, our goals may be totally different. While someone may strive for the best all time cake, someone else may just be striving to make a better cake than their last.

This is a wonderful site for sharing and caring about each other. I have seen many posts that have helped me and others time and time again. So I don't believe that you shouldn't help each other, but I do feel that we shouldn't do it in the phote gallery.

If you see something that you think you have a helpful hint about, why not start a post about it in the forum. You do not have to (and shouldn't) point out the cake that is the reason behind the post, but you can bring up a topic that can help others as well. That away you are not singling anyone out that may get their feelings hurt. Also at the same time helping others that may also be having problems with it, that don't get to see every picture in the gallery or have time to read every comment made on every picture to read it and learn it.

An example: Maybe you have seen several cakes that only have even number flowers on them, and odds are suppose to be more pleasing, why not start a topic about flowers on cakes and how to arrange them. You can give hints to making better arrangements, and others can join in with their ideas as well.

These are just my thoughts and opinions and should be taken as such.

In no way do I think anyone wanting to help others would do it in a harmful way, I just think that we don't always know how the other people will respond. Cakes are very personal to alot of us, and it is hard to read past the words on the screen sometimes to see the real meaning of them.

See what we mean!

the problem (in my opinion) is that even bringing this subject up on the forum, should be a no-no IF you are referring to specific cakes. Obviously now, at least one person appears to be offended, because they feel it could be their cake you are referring to. That's too bad.

If they aren't asking publicly for criticism, then there should probably be NO criticism at all in public about specific cakes.

My opinion is that it would have been better to say, I saw this cake and it needed some work... etc.

Not everyone here is a pro, even some that say they sell their cakes don't make every cake that looks professional. I sell my stuff, though admittedly, I'm more of a chocolate and candy person, than cakes, and I know my stuff is no-where near great. I don't have luck all the time with everything, and anyone who claims they do, I'd question.

Making reference to specifics where everyone, including the poster of the cake picture can see them, should be one of those unwritten rules too.

Good grief.

Why does this question always get so crazy.


I still believe that at the end of the day we are all here to learn from each other and improve our skill level. I stay with this because I want to be considered a pro. (ONE DAY) It might take 10 years but as the time passes you see improvements.


I just don't understand why you would want someone to stay quite when they can probably tell you something that can only help you out.


Just my 2 cents I hope I did not upset anyone.

Don't ask , Don't say..

I guess that's the unspoken rule.


Oh well as cakelady52 said "Don't ask , Don't say.."

I'm fairly new to this site and to cake decorating and this is how I feel about this subject. I know that I am not anywhere near as good as most people on this site but I am learning from everybody so when I do make a cake and post it, I am very proud of it. It would hurt my feelings (and I'm sure a lot of other people) if we received a negative comment on something we worked so hard on. Believe me, I KNOW that it is not near perfect but maybe one day they will be just as nice as everybody elses. Negative comments discourage people, and I was raised if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

Just my two cents as a newbie

I'm getting the distinct impression people don't really understand there's a difference between "critiquing" and "criticizing".

Perhaps, Paul, but I don't think the purpose of the gallery is to have cakes critiqued OR criticized.

That wasn't my point, though. I'm talking about the responses in this thread. It seems some people feel any response other than "Nice cake!" would automatically be negative. For what it's worth, even "Nice cake" is a critique. A critique is an analysis of a subject, it's neither specifically positive or negative. That analysis CAN include both those aspects however. A criticism, on the other hand, IS negative or commenting in a disapproving way.

Criticizing is NOT the ONLY alternative to "nothing but nice" comments.

I'm also not sure where it's noted that critiquing is not the "purpose" of the galleries. How did we come to the assumption that only positive feedback is to be given?

That said, I don't disagree there should be a separate gallery section FOR critiquing.

Bwahaha! Well, nevermind then!

Paul..good post.

Maybe I'm just from the "old school"???

I have the feeling I'm older than most members...when I started I wanted people to tear my work apart..tell me what they saw that they didn't like....what they didn't like about the taste or the colors. I wanted them to pick it apart totally.

That "negativity" made me eager to work harder..practice until my fingers fell off to get it "right". I figured a paying customer would do the same..look at my work critically...to make sure they got their moneys worth. Not everyone will be satisfied totally, but it made me strive for perfection. I'm not perfect and never will be but I'm not sure that having your ego stroked is going to make anyone successful.

I'm not against saying "good job" when looking at someones' efforts. I understand that people have a right to be proud of it...and see each effort as a triumph. I applaud that...but also applaud those that are willing to take their lumps to improve upon what they do.

If your feelings are that fragile that you get upset about what is posted on a chat board just wait until a customer lays you out in lavendar because they are not happy with what you have made for them.

Serving the public is a tough go...if you don't acquire a thick skin you will never make it.

Paul, you are just something else! I'd critique your post, but I will refrain as I'm not sure how thick skinned you are and I don't want to make you cry. I will say that your punctuation is especially nice and I particularly enjoyed your use of the emoticon.

You are just cracking me up today.

Okay, before I read everyone's replies to this topic I figured I'd post first then read then post again if need be!

I agree completely! Constructive criticism is what we all need (I believe). I would want some constructive criticism. There are tons of decorators on here that do it professionally or just do it as a hobby that are outstanding!!!! Those are the people I would hope would give the most helpful tips as comments! No need to be rude or offensive. That's not what CC is about. It is about sharing what we love to do and for goodness sakes, helping others that seek it! If constructive criticism can't be handled then don't post pictures and just stick to the forums. I highly encourage everyone to post pictures whether they are your first or not. I so enjoy looking at everyone's cakes, cupcakes, cookies, marzipan or fondant figures. THAT is what gives me my inspiration. It's the opinion of everyone on here that just might give us that tip we need that we have been searching for!!!!!!

Let's keep up the comments. Make them GOOD and HELPFUL!!! I try to do that and I certainly don't want anyone thinking I'm saying I'm better because I am better than NO ONE!!!!

One more thing, just because we all don't post comments on EVERY picture we see doesn't mean we don't like it! There are just so many GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD pictures to look I for one, want to get them all in in the short amount of time I have to look at CC because of my two little ones.


I love you ALL!!!!!


Amy

Paul, you cracked me up!

IHATEFONDANT, you summed things up so well. Excellent post.

I can't believe how long this post is actually getting. You hardly ever see posts get this long when people are asking for help or ideas.

I agree with the OP. I mean, I love you guys and I really, really value your feedback, but sometimes I wonder if I only get positive comments because people are afraid of hurting my feelings. I'll admit I get a little irked when someone points out a flaw in my work, but at least I know they really looked it over and gave me their honest opinion. And I know that when I get REALLY good feedback, I earned it.

But on the other hand, starting out a response with "YOU SUCK" would be a bad thing.

As I said before-I think "good job" on any cake can mean good color, good design, good thought-and can still have room for a but possibly a little....or more of..... I have no problem with a critique on my cakes-heck-they all need improvement. But I will take a good job or looks nice as a good thought and not a bad..again-it might be the design or something other than the total package. I don't feel anyone here is out to sabatoge anyones feelings regarding their cakes-it is a learning experience for all of us-newbies or oldies or those in between-the only PERFECT one has nothing to do with cakes. I feel this has really gotten out of hand-I don't feel it was started to hurt anyones feelings or to be ugly or upset anyone-I feel it was just a thought and there are probably alot of members who have thought the same thing but didn't bring it up because of fear of the responses. We all have our love of cakes in common-we should be able to trust our judgements and those of others without it being so hurtful. I realize people don't really know other people on the site so may not understand what is meant or can read into something that was said-but please-everyone-understand that this site is for learning and sharing not bickering and hurting. We all rely on each other for ideas and such-lets continue that on a happy note. You don't have to agree with me...it's my thoughts and if you want to critique my cakes please feel free-believe me-I DO!

goodcakefairy --- your cakes are really nice, so dont worry about people not being honest with you. My husband would really like the dragon cake too since he is in the Chemical Corps in the Army and their mascot is a dragon. My favorite of yours is the beach cake with the shells.

But on the other hand, starting out a response with "YOU SUCK" would be a bad thing.
[/quote]


I am dying over here!!!


Amy

I think if I would of got a comment of "you suck" would probaly motivate me more.....I know my cakes arent perfect, but least I am trying......E for Effort!!!!!



Betty

peachstate- that wasn't a plea for praise or anything, just an honest opinion. but thanks anyway.

cakemommy - like laughing "I'm dying" or suffering from convulsive fits because of goodcakefairy's insensitivity "I'm dying?"

I have no problem receiving constructive criticism .... I have a long way to go and a lot of learning to do along the way.
I'm just saying I ( ME ) am going to give my opinions and advice when I am asked. No big deal, no big drama..... just having fun making cakes! YIPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

Fun making cakes, learning and sharing is what it's all about!

I think you are all getting delirious! Is this thing keeping you up at night or what? HA HA HA

IMO:
How are we to learn if, when we make mistakes, no one steps up and points it out...The same way, how are we to learn to better decorate a cake if we are not "critiqued" or receive "constructive criticism". For those of us who are learning on their own for the most part, we need the eye of a discerning one, or maybe a tip or comment from someone else who may have had the same problem and learned how to improve on it. That's what the gallery comment section is there for. We are all grown ups and should be able to take it like it is...Of course, if given in kind manner and with the right intentions, which are to help. And most certainly, we must also commend the efforts of those who are starting to decorate too.

However, if you truly are going to sell your product, you MUST demand more of yourself. In the cake business, you cannot kid yourself.

Even constructive criticism can hurt to a degree....I KNOW that from personal experience...My FIRST gift box cake waws critiqued without sugar coatings from a friend of my husbands...Did I feel bad? YES. Did that make me mad at him? Of course not...He gave me his HONEST opinion. What did I do with it? I proved to him that I could do better! And I did. He gave me his opinion as a client would if I delivered a cake that was not well done.

What about my Wilton instructor...Never one positive comment...He said my roses (on the Wilton cake) looked like magnolias! He never sat down to show me how to do them for God's sake! What did I do??? I practiced.....The Auria cake was the second time I attempted to make roses...Then look at the Cameron cake, and then the others...there is more progress everytime I sit down...

We all have to push forward and demand more of ourselves if we are to be considered as cake decorators or cake artists. We ALL have a starting point, promising or not... What determines if we will improve is if we are willing to hear others good willed opinions.

I for my part like to read good comments on my cakes...But really, what do you see? What do you think? REALLY?

And also too...that's what the comment section in the gallery is for. When you put your picture up, it's not only to show your work, but to also hear what others have to say. I for my part will continue to offer unrequested advice if I see it necessary....There is always room for improvement.
You sandwich it...Comendation, counsel, Comendation.

My two...

Godiva dear your a Sweetheart, you can tell me what my cakes need anytime! Because you are experienced & I wouldn't get upset. I just don't like when someone who can't do a thing when it comes to decorating tells me what I did wrong. So to me, if you are a "PRO" at decorating like Godiva, Gma, KayDay, Jscakes, Lisa, & several others you can critique my cakes all you want~ Of course my friends on here can also critique me! You know who you are. OH, & you are wonderful decorator's too!!!

We all learn from CC, We all try things from CC. I love learning from the "PRO's" (ones who have actually tried a certain technique & learned from it)!! So if you've read about it don't bother helping me out or critiquing me, I want an experienced opinion~

Writing with Love in my heart & Cakes on my brain!!! Love ya'll!!