Oh Snap! When did Cakecentral turn into cafemom? This thread ranks up there with the catty cafemom posts. Winning.

Like I said I have only been decorating for 1 and 1/2 years. If someone sees my cake and then sees pics of my other cakes and likes my cakes and then orders a cake from me I am going to sell them a cake (as soon as it becomes legal and I can get legal that is. Wouldn't want anyone on here "knowing" all about me lol).

Anyways I think with out it being said the attitude on here to us "noobies" is if you haven't been baking for 10 + years and yoru cakes aren't up to this level don't even think about selling.

For the record I totally agree about the comments about customer service and owning up. I sold a couple cakes before I knew it was illegal (oops) and one of them started falling because I didn't stack it properly. I should not have been selling 2 tier cakes in the first place with such little knowledge so I get that all I really do.

Anyways I showed up at her house with a twenty dollar bill and about 300 apologies lol. The problem is some people just really need to be more careful with their words. It never would have become an us vs. them post if people didn't say things like "crappy novice cakes" or "we know who you are" with "you" being the "crappy" beginners.

Now my hubby is about to start the paramedic program and we are NOT going to have enough money to pay bills. I can help with making cakes (I am much better now) and I want a place that I can ask questions with out people making rude comments. If my cakes sucks please tell me but also tell me how to fix it if you know! I think thats where most of the beginners frustrations are coming from this post. Just sayen

Eh, I try not to put down others work, what's the point? We've all been beginners, we've all had questions. Even the ones who have been in the biz for 20 years have off days, where their cakes look like something you could pick up at walmart. I'm not perfect and I keep that in mind when handing out criticism.

I don't post pictures because I had my pics stolen from another site and then found them on someones site passing them off as their own, lol. Perhaps when I have time to watermark things, I may post some.

Yeah I hear you on that. I will say I have seen a few posts like that. Did people really get upset when people gave honest feed back? I never saw the op of those posts get angry at the people giving constructive criticism. I could totally be wrong and just missed it though.

In the spirit of debate, what are the components that make one a "professional"?
DO you need school to be a pro? 30 years experience? What do ya need to reach that "pro" status?

I've been a freelance makeup artist for a while. I know what sets me apart from the "youtube boomers". And this is what I liken this Pro VS Newb feud to.

I'd like it if someone could check out my pics and tell me if my cakes look professional...seriously I am beginning to doubt myself.

As for the us vs them vibe that some of you have stated you felt in some of the forums: While I do appreciate the dedication and time it takes to be a professional (that's why its my HOBBY), my daughter is a newbie who wants to learn to see if she would like to go into this after college and sadly I don't feel like this is the place for her to learn. Too many people pick everything apart and its the unsolicited/uncalled for criticism and name calling that I don't want her to have to sort through. (Don't have to post that old you gotta be tough to be in business, we have experience outside the cake realm and already know it).

We all have a right to be heard and we all have a right to our opinion, however, policy is - "We aim to keep CakeCentral.com a positive, safe, and friendly environment for all that come here. We do not have any tolerance for cruelty, or unconstructive/ negative comments and posts. If you disagree with someone, or have had a negative experience we encourage you to share, but you must keep your comments respectful and constructive."

And by the way a "newbie" is a new person to the craft, a "Noob" or "Noobie" knows little and has no will to learn any more. They expect people to do the work for them and then expect to get praised about it./ Just posting that because when I read through the posts I really didnt know what a Noob was and thought maybe some of you guys didn't either.

Wow, that's a lot to weed through! LOL.

The one thing I really remember about my reception was walking in and seeing the cake. It was NOT what I had asked for. At all. The flowers were wrong and (my brain isn't functioning due to fatigue) she did that thing where you paint the inside of the bag with food coloring so it colors the icing as it comes out. She placed them where I specifically said I didn't want them, coming out of the sides. AND... the cake was leaning. It also didn't taste very good.

I started with Wilton, I'll admit. I have been practicing and learning for several years now and I have gained some decent skill. I've pushed myself beyond my comfort zone and I've grown as a decorator. If asked to do a new technique or design element, I ALWAYS tell them that it's new for me and that I will do my best. And then I do. Every cake that comes out of my kitchen is as spot on as I can get it with the skills that I have. Every cake is special and every person deserves to see it and be happy. Because of that one cake experience. (She did an awful job on my SIL's cake too.)

I've never missed. I've never had someone come up after and say anything negative. Luckily. Partly because I try so hard to do a good job. But I am sure one of these days someone will complain, and thanks to all the ladies on here I have ideas of how I would help fix the situation calmly and with respect to how they are feeling. I have nothing but respect for those of you who do this for a living, each cake is stressful for me thanks to being OCD, especially those who deal with rough clients frequently. You are all a source of inspiration, and I am carefully filing away information for when my DH is done with school and it's my turn to pursue a dream.

I'd love to encourage people to start small. Don't take on that big order just yet. There's nothing wrong with starting small and staying there until your skills (baking, decorating, and business) are where they need to be in order to grow. I've learned a lot in the two years I've been selling cakes and I'm just now starting to grow. I've had friends and family encourage to go full blast from the beginning, but I refused to do it. Two years ago I had an acquaintance tell me I should open a shop, but no way, no how. Two years later and I'm still not ready for it. Small is okay, folks.

As far as doing what it takes, two weeks ago I pulled my first all-nighter to get a cake done correctly. It still wasn't perfect, but it was done to the satisfaction of my client- who gave me my first ever tip. My friend thinks I'm worrying too much, obsessing too much, researching too much, and practicing too much. Phooey! In my family, we say, "You gotta do what it takes to get where you want to go" and that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm dedicated towards reaching my goal. Heck, I just gave someone a $5 discount because I mistakenly thought her date was in July and not June. Of course, I didn't tell her about the discount until she actually booked with me, I just noted it on my calendar. I want her to know that even small mistakes are taken care of when you do business with me.

As far as straight lines, let my friend chuckle at me. Laser levels are my friend. I'm pretty sure that I'll never be able to free hand a straight line. I'm middle-aged and it hasn't happened yet. Instead, I find a solution- a laser level in this case. Do what you gotta do to provide the service and product to get you where you want to go.

Cheatize that was a very nice post Thank you for the realistic encouragment I appreciate it.

Moving this thread to the Business forum (since customer service IS an integral part of most successful businesses).

C'mon girls. Why does every thread have to turn into a fight? The point of this thread is NOT pros vs. newbies.

I am a self taught (mostly, barring a few really great experiences that taught me a lot) home baker. I worked unlicensed for awhile until I realized, understood, and was ready for licensing. Look through my pictures....my photos show a definite, slow improvement. I know people whose first cake looks better than the entire first half of my caking years. haha. So...that is NOT the point of this thread at ALL and I sure would hate to have it locked but I might need to request that soon.

My ONLY point was that, recently, I've seen quite a few threads where someone gets on here, says "The customer was SO MEAN because they were mad that this fell off the cake, or that I didn't have time to do what they asked, or that I didn't have enough supplies to finish their request, or the cake wasn't supported well enough to make the drive...and they are SO UNFAIR to be mad, because I gave them a great deal on a cake!" This is BAD customer service. I don't care if we've been decorating for a week or 20 years....we NEED to be sure that if we are charging customers a lot of money for a cake, that we deliver a nice cake. That's all I'm saying.

As long as your customer is happy that's great...I have many times I am not happy with my cake but the customer is...that's fine! But once the customer is disappointed, it is OUR job to make that right. We don't get mad at the customer or say "Well you got a nice cake, deal with it". We act like professionals and we admit our wrongs and we make it right.

This isn't about how long you've been doing this or if you are licensed (and I hate when people get on hobby horses about being licensed or using wires in cakes or any other number of argumentative topics) but all of us HAVE to remember that we are here to SERVE the customer...we are NOT doing them some kind of favor that deserves thanks, unless we are making a donation.

All I'm saying is, if someone is paying you $200 for a cake....do your best. And if you mess it up...make it right. Don't come here and bash your customer for being disappointed in a cake that wasn't done right.

I got that completely Suzy...

No one was saying that if your customers are happy that you aren't making a good cake. There is room in this business for ALL skill levels. There is a market for the more simple cakes just as much as there is a market for the super elaborate ones.

The problem lies when a person agrees to make a cake that they know they can't do. The customer is (rightfully) angry for receiving a cake that was NOTHING like what they imagined and trusted the caker to provide. Then the caker comes here saying what a bitch the bride was to not like the cake and ask for a refund.

The problem had nothing to do with the bride. It was 100% on the caker. Even if the bride looks through pictures and can see that the skill level isn't quite the same, she put her trust in a caker who told her "yes... I can do that cake". The most common thing said is "you only charged her $150.00 for that cake... she should be thankful she got such a deal!". Ummmm... no. It doesn't matter what the bride paid... unless the caker specifically told her "this cake is above my skill level and will look NOTHING like the cake you have in that picture, but I am giving you a SUPER discount to make up for that" then it is 100% on the caker to refund the money and not bitch about it. It doesn't matter that you spent 100 hours trying to make it work... it only matter that you didn't make it work.

The truth of the matter is the vent should go like this:

"OMG... I can't believe I let my bride down. I promised a cake that I knew I couldn't produce and I ruined her big day. I am so angry at myself for biting off way more than I can chew on such an important occasion."

No one here would ever knock someone for trying something new and not succeeding at it. It's how you learn. It is critical to you getting better. That was not the point of this thread and if you walked away from it thinking it was then you didn't read the original post and got too caught up in a few off phrases or were personally offended when you shouldn't have been. This thread is not meant for the novice baker who is trying to figure it all out and it's not for the hobby baker who makes the occasional cake for a very happy customer. It's for the irresponsible "business" owner who doesn't have the ability to realize they shouldn't be in business just yet. The one who can't see that a little mor practice would make a WORLD of difference as well as having a firm grip on what they can realistically produce. You don't have to be Ron Ben Israel to be a cake decorator and have happy clients... you just have to be honest with yourself enough to be able to say to a client... "I'm sorry, but that cake is not something I could reproduce for you."

Not a single person here that many put in the category of "professional" has claimed they have never made a mistake. The difference is that they own up to it and, rather than dog their clients for not understanding that they didn't have the skills, they have the balls to say "I screwed up here's your money back".

It wasn't the terms "noob" or "troll" that offended me... but the person who called out the decorators she deemed to be "unprofessional" by having what she assumes are unlicensed kitchens. That was taking it too far IMO.

And in defense of those who post here venting about the customers, I've seen many of the veteran decorators vent about customers and I felt the vents were totally unjustified (tired of customers not knowing how long it takes to make a cake, or how much a cake costs, or having a budget they need to stick to). I think the "newbies" are just posting in an effort to fit in and establish a bit of comraderie - I'm sure we all know when we screw up. I'd rather post on the individual thread offering my advice on that particular situation than start a thread insulting a group of people - I think it would be far more helpful.

If you see this thread as an insult then you missed the point and I guess it should be locked.

Jeeze louise....some people...

Listen, the point is that if the cake that was ordered was suppose to be blue and you give them a pink one, you didn't do your job.

Regardless of whether you've been decorating for 30 years or 3 months. It doesn't matter. If you sell, you are responsible for the product you put out.

And yes, some of the cakes on here are crappy -- by decorators standards. Which is what matters in this business because half the time, the cake muggles (I love that term!) think anything that's frosted is amazing. People pay for amazing cakes, not ok cakes. And what's worse, is the crappy cakes are sometimes by people who are always saying how people are telling them to sell their cakes, blah blah blah. Well, someone said American Idol tryouts and I agree. 100%

I think I am good at decorating; I'm not great and I'm not perfect by any standard. I can out decorate almost all the people I know. I cannot out decorate most of the people on here. The people who are my competitors. And regardless of whether I can out decorate my family matters about 0% when it comes to selling.

I KNOW I have a LONG way to go. The first thing I did was create a pricing matrix and I enter in every cake I make even though I am not selling. Then I ask myself: "Is this a $xxx cake??" If not, well, I'm not ready to sell yet. ALso, someone suggested to me and I think it's fabulous advise....take an "order" (pretend of course) and make the cake from start to finish. Fake contract to fake delivery. See what it takes from step one to step done.

I am in the works of getting my home business under way. Michigan just passed the Cottage Foods act so I am super excited to have a side business some day. It's always been a dream of mine to be a business owner. My husband and I owned a business franchise for a short time so I get the business side of things. I have a leg up on a lot of people.

This isn't about new to the business or old to the business. It's just about BUSINESS.