Our Duty As Decorators

Business By Kitagrl Updated 18 May 2011 , 9:02pm by YellowBrickRd

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FromScratchSF Posted 17 May 2011 , 11:29pm
post #61 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdJac

I too have been looking around on here for a while and I know I am just a baker for hobby and my cakes aren't quite up there with all you folks but it seems all the "professionals" really come down hard on folks. This is about my first post cause i know that i will get crucified for sayin what i think but wow why does every poster with experience have to shake down the oririnal poster about legal kitchens and quality of work and then say I aint bein mean but _____ and the customer is always right before every post. i can only guess what you have to do to go into business, how hard that is, and how much you have to put up with but just because someone else hasnt been through all that doesnt mean they dont have feelings. even more wouldnt they have more sensitive feelings if they arent at the professional level but they most want to be. Dont you think your Duty as Decorators also consists of helping out those that aren't as good to become better by encouragment instead of tramplin them. Wow I guess my first can be my last. I have heard enough




NO EDJAC, this is where you are flat out WRONG. My "Duty as a Decorator" is to the customers that pay for my cakes and my family to help provide for. If I choose to share advice, tips, recipes or troubleshooting on this forum it's because I WANT TO. NOT because YOU are entitled to learn the secrets I LEARNED for MYSELF thru hard work, blood sweat and tears. Your self-entitlement attitude will only get you nowhere in business which is fine with me.

Seriously, if you think we professionals are "threatened" by novice decorators and their crappy cakes, boy are you mistaken.

But again, I've been baited by another noob whining about how mean we are just because we have have a higher standard of product and actually run legal businesses. icon_rolleyes.gif

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FromScratchSF Posted 17 May 2011 , 11:52pm
post #62 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitagrl

I suggest we all ignore the person/newbie/troll who is trying to start a fight in a perfectly good thread so that we do not get this thread closed down.




done, thanks!!!!

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ThreeLittleBlackbirds Posted 17 May 2011 , 11:59pm
post #63 of 141

oh boy, you peeps are fiesty! Makes for a good read icon_smile.gif

Congrats Jen on your baby!!!

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indydebi Posted 18 May 2011 , 12:45am
post #64 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Just because your mom tells you that your cakes are the cutest that she's ever seen doesn't mean that they are.



Can we all say "American Idol tryouts"? icon_rolleyes.gificon_lol.gif Sometimes Simon just HAS to tell someone, "You're not as great as your mama says you are."

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costumeczar Posted 18 May 2011 , 1:06am
post #65 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Just because your mom tells you that your cakes are the cutest that she's ever seen doesn't mean that they are.


Can we all say "American Idol tryouts"? icon_rolleyes.gificon_lol.gif Sometimes Simon just HAS to tell someone, "You're not as great as your mama says you are."




I love Simon.

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jules5000 Posted 18 May 2011 , 1:21am
post #66 of 141

I would love to be able to have a business doing what I love, but realistically it isn't going to happen. Once in a while I make a little money doing a cake, but for the most part it is just a small percentage of what I have put into it timewise and money wise.

I want my cakes to be not only pretty or cute, but delicious too. I called a customer Monday when I was back in town and asked how my cake was. She told me it was dry and really crumbly. I apologized and worked to figure out what went wrong.

It was a new recipe, but I think that more than that I forgot the heating core and I was very careful about checking the cake after it was supposed to be done every 2 or 3 min. and checked it with a skewer at least 3 times. It did not show that it was done until the last time and it was only 3 min. after the last time I checked it.

The cake had good flavor and they loved the icing it was just hard to eat because it was so crumbly. I am probably not going to offer a refund because of the situation, but If I was in a reg. business I would. I know that this person will give me another chance because I have done cakes for them before for nothing. But I also know that I am not good enough to charge hundreds of dollars for a cake.

I am realistic about my abilities or lack of skill in certain areas and I just enjoy giving people pleasure for the most part or blessing my friends for their birthdays. and this gives me continued challenge to learn new techniques and skills and ways of dong things. Good luck out there. I do believe customer service is more important than a perfect cake.

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scp1127 Posted 18 May 2011 , 1:27am
post #67 of 141

I will ignore too.

Now the real thing... and I am not asking for licenses. When I see these posts, I automatically assume it is an illegal baker out of a home, calling it a business. Honey, that is not a business. The lack of work ethic, customer service, and especially the lack of knowledge in understanding how far-reaching the bad cake and bad service will actually be, shows us this is a person with no business experience and no skin in the game. This can also be someone in a cottage industry state where the investment is minimal.

I am amazed at the range of talent on this site. My cakes are OCD perfect, but they are not elaborate. I'm not there yet. If someone wants a cake from me, they must understand my abilities. Because wedding cakes are a small part of my business, but growing much more than I even want, I will only agree to a design that I know that I can execute. People insist on my cakes for their weddings because they have tasted my cakes and are willing to work within my ability. A few design changes and we both are happy.

I've said this before. My site has a box that must be checked for terms of service. I give a satisfaction guarantee. I would never think to do business any other way.

And by the way, there are some members who claim to have legit businesses and we know you really don't. The area of the country will be a high rent area that does not allow home baking. Lots of posts arguing with the bigger names on this site, but no real depth in the knowledge of business. Yes, we know who you are. Unfortunately, those people who love to fight spout out senseless information, clouding the good advice give by the great businesspeople here who have valuable information to share. So please know that we know.

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costumeczar Posted 18 May 2011 , 1:30am
post #68 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127

And by the way, there are some members who claim to have legit businesses and we know you really don't. The area of the country will be a high rent area that does not allow home baking. Lots of posts arguing with the bigger names on this site, but no real depth in the knowledge of business. Yes, we know who you are. Unfortunately, those people who love to fight spout out senseless information, clouding the good advice give by the great businesspeople here who have valuable information to share. So please know that we know.




Yessssss.....

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MamaDear Posted 18 May 2011 , 1:33am
post #69 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127

I will ignore too.

Now the real thing... and I am not asking for licenses. When I see these posts, I automatically assume it is an illegal baker out of a home, calling it a business. Honey, that is not a business. The lack of work ethic, customer service, and especially the lack of knowledge in understanding how far-reaching the bad cake and bad service will actually be, shows us this is a person with no business experience and no skin in the game. This can also be someone in a cottage industry state where the investment is minimal.

I am amazed at the range of talent on this site. My cakes are OCD perfect, but they are not elaborate. I'm not there yet. If someone wants a cake from me, they must understand my abilities. Because wedding cakes are a small part of my business, but growing much more than I even want, I will only agree to a design that I know that I can execute. People insist on my cakes for their weddings because they have tasted my cakes and are willing to work within my ability. A few design changes and we both are happy.

I've said this before. My site has a box that must be checked for terms of service. I give a satisfaction guarantee. I would never think to do business any other way.

And by the way, there are some members who claim to have legit businesses and we know you really don't. The area of the country will be a high rent area that does not allow home baking. Lots of posts arguing with the bigger names on this site, but no real depth in the knowledge of business. Yes, we know who you are. Unfortunately, those people who love to fight spout out senseless information, clouding the good advice give by the great businesspeople here who have valuable information to share. So please know that we know.




Where is your site, I would like to see your work and you dont have any pics here?

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costumeczar Posted 18 May 2011 , 1:37am
post #70 of 141

I don't have pictures here either, that just means that we don't have time to upload photos to every site we go to! I never look at pictures on here unless someone specificaly refers to one in a post.

When I first came on here I didn't want to post my personal info because I wanted to be anonymous due to having a business. Now I don't care so much, so I post my info. Just saying, you don't have to have photos on here to know what you're talking about.

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jenmat Posted 18 May 2011 , 1:43am
post #71 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF

NO EDJAC, this is where you are flat out WRONG. My "Duty as a Decorator" is to the customers that pay for my cakes and my family to help provide for. If I choose to share advice, tips, recipes or troubleshooting on this forum it's because I WANT TO. NOT because YOU are entitled to learn the secrets I LEARNED for MYSELF thru hard work, blood sweat and tears. Your self-entitlement attitude will only get you nowhere in business which is fine with me.

Seriously, if you think we professionals are "threatened" by novice decorators and their crappy cakes, boy are you mistaken.

But again, I've been baited by another noob whining about how mean we are just because we have have a higher standard of product and actually run legal businesses. icon_rolleyes.gif




Can I get an AMEN?!

Retorts like that which call it like it is, is why I come back to this site. I have learned more about this craft and this business from people who aren't afraid to say it like it is.

So to those of you really "doing it" with the storefront, the employees, the secret recipes, the amazing cakes: SAY EXACTLY WHAT YOU THINK! Don't worry about most of us, we are big boys and girls who can take it. Because THAT'S the only way to be a business success: to live in REALITY and be able to hear the truth and grow from it. THANK YOU for being honest, forthright, and most of all, for being here to share your knowledge.

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noothernames Posted 18 May 2011 , 1:47am
post #72 of 141

I am understanding both sides of the argument here. What's sad is that a good post had to turn sour.

The OP had great points, but I think a lot of people misunderstood her and I am not talking about just the novice decorators, some of the experienced ones did too. I don't think the OP was trying to put down anyone.

You should be held responsible for a cake that was not made the way it was promised to a customer. If you buy something at a store and it does not work right, you take it back and get a refund or store credit. But, the badgering of all the novice decorators and their crappy cakes was not a necessary comment.

Nobody knows everyone's personal life on here. Maybe these new members have been in the business longer than you think, but have just joined CC recently. I've seen some awesome cakes from some of the beginners. I know a lot of people will be afraid to post anything now including pics of their cakes for fear of being ridiculed.

I'm just saying we're all adults here with a common passion and we should be mature about the way we handle ourselves. I think everyone on here is great and I would never discourage someone to join CC to ask questions or seeking advice. So please lets have kinder words and show our professionalism without putting others down.

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MamaDear Posted 18 May 2011 , 1:49am
post #73 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

I don't have pictures here either, that just means that we don't have time to upload photos to every site we go to! I never look at pictures on here unless someone specificaly refers to one in a post.

When I first came on here I didn't want to post my personal info because I wanted to be anonymous due to having a business. Now I don't care so much, so I post my info. Just saying, you don't have to have photos on here to know what you're talking about.




I understand that not everyone has time to post pics but I have seen your website, that poster doesn't list any and I just wanted to check out their work.

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kellertur Posted 18 May 2011 , 1:51am
post #74 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

I don't have pictures here either, that just means that we don't have time to upload photos to every site we go to! I never look at pictures on here unless someone specificaly refers to one in a post.

When I first came on here I didn't want to post my personal info because I wanted to be anonymous due to having a business. Now I don't care so much, so I post my info. Just saying, you don't have to have photos on here to know what you're talking about.




Yeah, what she said! AND some of us have had our photos stolen and used on other sites. That's happened to me twice, as well as having a posted recipe printed on someone else's online cookbook.
We all have our reasons...this isn't a Clint Eastwood movie.

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costumeczar Posted 18 May 2011 , 2:00am
post #75 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by noothernames

But, the badgering of all the novice decorators and their crappy cakes was not a necessary comment. Nobody knows everyone's personal life on here. Maybe these new members have been in the business longer than you think, but have just joined CC recently. I've seen some awesome cakes from some of the beginners. I know a lot of people will be afraid to post anything now including pics of their cakes for fear of being ridiculed. .




I don't think that anyone has put down beginners or new members in this thread...

Everyone is a beginner at some point, and we all can improve. The point that the OP made was that there seems to be a trend on here for people to do a crappy job, then complain that the customer is wrong because they don't want to admit they did a crappy job. Regardless of whether you've been in business 1 year or 20, if you do a crappy cake, that's on you, not the customer.

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Lovin_Cakes30 Posted 18 May 2011 , 2:01am
post #76 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by noothernames

I am understanding both sides of the argument here. What's sad is that a good post had to turn sour. The OP had great points, but I think a lot of people misunderstood her and I am not talking about just the novice decorators, some of the experienced ones did too. I don't think the OP was trying to put down anyone. You should be held responsible for a cake that was not made the way it was promised to a customer. If you buy something at a store and it does not work right, you take it back and get a refund or store credit. But, the badgering of all the novice decorators and their crappy cakes was not a necessary comment. Nobody knows everyone's personal life on here. Maybe these new members have been in the business longer than you think, but have just joined CC recently. I've seen some awesome cakes from some of the beginners. I know a lot of people will be afraid to post anything now including pics of their cakes for fear of being ridiculed. I'm just saying we're all adults here with a common passion and we should be mature about the way we handle ourselves. I think everyone on here is great and I would never discourage someone to join CC to ask questions or seeking advice. So please lets have kinder words and show our professionalism without putting others down.



I am one of those a little bit afriad to post some of my questions now =) I don't want to be looked at as crazy or stupid for not knowing everything! But I just absolutely love reading all of the advice on these forums! I have been reading this stuff long before I became a member and wow has it all been so helpful, so thank you!!!!!!! My state just became a cottage state and I was excited to be able to do cakes for friends and family legally, but now I am not sure as it seems like it is really looked down upon??? IDK? But gosh, when I did my first fondant cake I just absolutely fell in love with cake decorating and have been trying to get all the knowledege I can ever since.

I really do understand the emotions that arise with such passion for an art that you have spent years perfecting!!!! I am a dance instructor and have been dancing for 24 years. Boy do emotions run high when a piece is critiqued by peers! I try not to judge other chorographers but at the same time, when I see a dance that is so very poorly choreographed at a dance competition I can't help but think that the customers (students) totally got screwed! Other teachers complain about parents that are un-happy with their work....they completely forget that these are paying customers that we HAVE to satisfy! I also have a hard time when young dancers just graduate and then think they can become great teachers and chorographers right away! Just because you can dance does not mean you can teach! So I COMPLETLY understand that part of all this debate.

Just please don't stop giving out all of the advice and help. I completly eat it all up and would be so sad if everyone started to become really guarded with their advice!

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noothernames Posted 18 May 2011 , 2:08am
post #77 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Quote:
Originally Posted by noothernames

But, the badgering of all the novice decorators and their crappy cakes was not a necessary comment. Nobody knows everyone's personal life on here. Maybe these new members have been in the business longer than you think, but have just joined CC recently. I've seen some awesome cakes from some of the beginners. I know a lot of people will be afraid to post anything now including pics of their cakes for fear of being ridiculed. .



I don't think that anyone has put down beginners or new members in this thread...

Everyone is a beginner at some point, and we all can improve. The point that the OP made was that there seems to be a trend on here for people to do a crappy job, then complain that the customer is wrong because they don't want to admit they did a crappy job. Regardless of whether you've been in business 1 year or 20, if you do a crappy cake, that's on you, not the customer.



I understood what the OP was saying and I completely agreed with her, but yes if you go through all of the posts there are some putting down novice decorators. I'm just stating fact is all.

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SarahBeth3 Posted 18 May 2011 , 2:08am
post #78 of 141

Pushing the imaginary "LIKE" button for the OP.

Congratulations Jen!

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costumeczar Posted 18 May 2011 , 2:13am
post #79 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by noothernames

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Quote:
Originally Posted by noothernames

But, the badgering of all the novice decorators and their crappy cakes was not a necessary comment. Nobody knows everyone's personal life on here. Maybe these new members have been in the business longer than you think, but have just joined CC recently. I've seen some awesome cakes from some of the beginners. I know a lot of people will be afraid to post anything now including pics of their cakes for fear of being ridiculed. .



I don't think that anyone has put down beginners or new members in this thread...

Everyone is a beginner at some point, and we all can improve. The point that the OP made was that there seems to be a trend on here for people to do a crappy job, then complain that the customer is wrong because they don't want to admit they did a crappy job. Regardless of whether you've been in business 1 year or 20, if you do a crappy cake, that's on you, not the customer.


I understood what the OP was saying and I completely agreed with her, but yes if you go through all of the posts there are some putting down novice decorators. I'm just stating fact is all.




I think it's more putting down novice decorators who think they're awesome and won't see past their own noses to notice that they can't pipe a straight line yet. It's the attitude, not the skill level, that's being put down.

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noothernames Posted 18 May 2011 , 2:20am
post #80 of 141

I got ya costumeczar, I just hope other "newbies" that come on here to vent for good reason, do. I guess they will if they read your post. ; )

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WykdGud Posted 18 May 2011 , 2:24am
post #81 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127


And by the way, there are some members who claim to have legit businesses and we know you really don't. The area of the country will be a high rent area that does not allow home baking. Lots of posts arguing with the bigger names on this site, but no real depth in the knowledge of business. Yes, we know who you are. Unfortunately, those people who love to fight spout out senseless information, clouding the good advice give by the great businesspeople here who have valuable information to share. So please know that we know.




Wow... that was pretty rude. While I support the sentiment in the opening post, I find it really sad that a select few self-appointed "cake divas" are using this thread as a forum to call out others they feel are beneath them. It's one thing to offer advice or constructive criticism, but this "I'm better than you" attitude is incredibly ugly.

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noothernames Posted 18 May 2011 , 2:32am
post #82 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by WykdGud

Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127


And by the way, there are some members who claim to have legit businesses and we know you really don't. The area of the country will be a high rent area that does not allow home baking. Lots of posts arguing with the bigger names on this site, but no real depth in the knowledge of business. Yes, we know who you are. Unfortunately, those people who love to fight spout out senseless information, clouding the good advice give by the great businesspeople here who have valuable information to share. So please know that we know.



Wow... that was pretty rude. While I support the sentiment in the opening post, I find it really sad that a select few self-appointed "cake divas" are using this thread as a forum to call out others they feel are beneath them. It's one thing to offer advice or constructive criticism, but this "I'm better than you" attitude is incredibly ugly.


thumbs_up.gif was my point exactly, thank you

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Aylahmay Posted 18 May 2011 , 2:38am
post #83 of 141

Hi everyone this is my 1st time posting on here tooicon_smile.gif I think that the post was wonderful, i would never give a crappy cake to someone or complain if they didnt like it. Morals!

I have read through the whole post and i have to say, the tone of which people say things are not at all proffessional at timesicon_sad.gif its sad. Im a newbie to cakes but im a great business woman and i am co owner of a construction company for ten years, so i get the whole business end of things and how to treat my peers and customers.

I also live in an area that the cakes i make are not like what everyone has already seen everywhere else. Ive never been an ego driven person and always remember to be humble in everything i do. I never look down on others or put my nose in the air. I dont claim to be anything that im not.

I on the other hand have very thick skin and dont get offended easy. As long as the costumer is happy it really doesnt matter what other peers think about your work anyways. As long as the cake is the best of your work and the costumer knows that you are just starting out and you are at an understanding thats all that matters.

I would never claim to do something beyond my capabilities, nor would i ever give up a challege to try something new, I think youve all been there at some point. I dont think ppl should put down other ppls dreams either. And thats why we take photos so our clients can see our work, if they dont like it they can move on and thats great because everyone should be completey satisfied. I post pics because i dont care what bad judgements anyone thinks about my work, If I was faint hearted they i wouldnt.

And congrats on the baby Jenicon_smile.gif being a mother is the greatest thing in the worldicon_wink.gif

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scp1127 Posted 18 May 2011 , 2:50am
post #84 of 141

I don't post pictures because I don't see the point. My cakes are fondant with clean lines and simple details... just like many on here. No one is going to learn from my style. It is already on here many times.

As for my site, I do not share it because it is not trademarked yet. All of my pictures are on it. The link will never be part of this site because my approach is different (haven't seen it before) and I advertise on the internet out of category.

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Aylahmay Posted 18 May 2011 , 3:22am
post #85 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by scp1127

I don't post pictures because I don't see the point. My cakes are fondant with clean lines and simple details... just like many on here. No one is going to learn from my style. It is already on here many times.

As for my site, I do not share it because it is not trademarked yet. All of my pictures are on it. The link will never be part of this site because my approach is different (haven't seen it before) and I advertise on the internet out of category.



I was only talking about myself and my own pics like i said, it doesnt matter to me what ppl think and your right ppl have seen all types of cake a million and one times so it shouldnt matter. you sounded offened. As long as each person is happy its all that matters, we shouldnt bash each other. me and my husband have had our construction company for 10 yrs a roofs, a roof, a house is a house and a cakes, a cake. We have many ppl older and with more credentials then us, but we have ppl lined out the door to have us to the job. Its no different with cakesicon_smile.gif

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tryingcake Posted 18 May 2011 , 3:26am
post #86 of 141

I agree with the original poster - and I'm not sure why there are so many posts on here blasting newbies and/or illegals. That has nothing to do with what the original poster started. Legal or not - the customer is looking for a certain quality of work, that is the original subject matter of this thread. This has nothing to do with a business license or food grade. Regardless, what most of us need to learn, there are times we deliver an inferior cake, and we need to own it and make amends to the customer. There are times we have a customer that is just never going to be happy no matter how well, we do. We, as business people, need to understand the difference.

I have given my share of refunds. And I can honestly say it's never once been demanded of me to give a refund or discount, I have always offered before the customer has a chance to demand. Obviously, not enough to put me out of business., but my fair share.

And, most of all, we must remember that a bad cake with a full refund will never make amends if the centerpiece of someone's reception is not up to par. Not many brides will say, "oh, it's OK - I got the cake for free" when we screw up. She will be sad, she will be angry and no amount of apologizing or money offered will make it better. So, while we want to accept challenges, we still need to understand our own limits in our abilities.

I have never once promised a $1000 cake for $250. I either flat turn it down or tell them and make them sign a waiver acknowledging they are receiving a scaled down version and "my interpretation" of the pictured cake. They know they will NOT receive that cake in the picture. But even so, it will be a quality cake or there is no charge.

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Bettyviolet101 Posted 18 May 2011 , 3:43am
post #87 of 141

Well great now I am scared of posting questions, I am scared of people getting pissy that I didn't spell everything perfectly or have perfect punctuation, and I am scared to vent about anything. Not from the OP but just from lots of other comments made on here and other forums. Sheesh. Oh well I guess I will just not care and do it all anyway!!!

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lyndim Posted 18 May 2011 , 3:47am
post #88 of 141

Wow, what a thread! I make cakes for friends and family, I don't plan on opening up a Bakery, I make cakes because I love it. This site has been an inspiration for most of my cakes. So if someone doesn't like my cake, too bad because it was Free! I too find it interesting when someone says that they want to open up a shop because everyone raves about their cakes, do they even have a clue what owning a shop entails? It's a 24/7 job. Anywhoo what was the op about? Hee Hee

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FromScratchSF Posted 18 May 2011 , 4:13am
post #89 of 141

Sadly this thread started out great and then quickly became another thread of us vs. them. That's not the point.

I feel partly responsible because I made a very broad statement when I was really only directing it at the person that posted something that got my goat. I blame lack of sleep and a screaming newborn... which is really no excuse for a lack of verbal/text filter.

I think where there is ALWAYS a problem is people reading don't realize there are Professionals, i.e. people in business selling their cakes, and Hobby Bakers, people that bake at home for fun. Often Hobby Bakers read these threads and think we are talking about them as "noobs" but we are not. This thread is only talking about the lack of customer service of those that sell their cakes and can't accept that they made a mistake or bit off more then they can chew. None of this is directed at home bakers or hobby bakers.

In my mind, once you charge for a cake or call yourself a professional, then put your work out there as professional quality, you open yourself up to other professionals comparing your work and customer service, especially if you put yourself out there as a business asking business questions. You are going to get business answers.

Anyway, I apologize for being a bit feisty, and hope this helps clarify my feelings on the matter.

And thank you for all the baby well wishes! Man, I though starting my cake business was hard... THIS is kicking my butt icon_biggrin.gif

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scp1127 Posted 18 May 2011 , 4:15am
post #90 of 141

Mamadear asked about my pictures. I'm not offended. I was just saying why I don't have pictures up. I just don't care about posting them. I look at other people's pictures because I can learn from them. No one is going to learn any great design from me. I am doing an Alice in Wonderland themed cake for a friend. Normally I don't get that crazy. But it is still my style... simple and clean. Now, there is a lot of detail in the cake, but still nothing new or even that hard. I'm a stickler for the mathematics in a cake design. There is no back in my cakes, or that area where things don't fit together.

My area of knowledge is business ownership and scratch baking. My bakery is new and I don't claim to know that much about wedding cakes. But it is very easy to spot people who have little business experience.

The OP was stating a business fact that has nothing to do with baking or cake. It crosses all industry lines. We are not bashing newbies, we are stating that those who don't understand basic business principles concerning product quality and customer relations tend to blame the customer and not themselves.

This, as an industry, makes us all look bad. Cake clients don't always know who is licensed, who can make a structurally sound cake, who has their own pictures and not someone else's.... They put their money down and they trust us. When they get burned, do you think they are as trusting when they come to the next baker? NO.

With everyone who take a Wilton class hanging out their"open" sign, it won't be long before we are looked at like used car salesmen. "Trust me", the next baker says. There are more illegal cakers out there than there are legit businesses. Unless the state has cottage industry, these are the ones with the problems.

The investment it takes to start in most areas requires business knowledge to get that far, and the owner would have some customer relations experience. So the OP is trying to say to learn from this site. We would all learn more if we could talk about these issues like we are now.

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