Question: Cake Decorator Doesn't Bake Her Own Cakes?
Decorating By slopokesgirl Updated 28 May 2009 , 6:43pm by JanH
just don't lie and say scratch.
I am fully annoyed at people who preach that others should "not lie" about what kind of cake they make. Not just the one in this thread but all of ya'll!
I think it's off the chart disrespectful to assume that someone would lie and then feel the self righteous need to tell people over and over and over and over not to. It's also patronizing, inflexible and judgemental.
There are nine other commandments.
We probably should not covet other people's silver plateaus either.
We probably should not kill them with cake either.
But nobody's repeating those commandmanet ad nauseum.
So if you do scratch cakes and you want the pre-emminance then you're gonna have to get it by your great baking without pounding the mix users over the head with it. That they have to keep those imaginary lines clean and sharp and fully confessed before God and everybody. 'It' being the silly unfounded schism on how you bake.
If you bake one way or the other and you think people should be frank about it then go 'head be frank about it but stay out of other people's adherence or not to the ten commandments.
Wow. I think she was just suggesting that it is important to be honest with the consumer - can't see what is offensive about that. Would you have reacted the same if she had said home made instead of scratch?
Read my post again if you want to know why I said that. I was pretty clear.
Simply put, why would anyone need to caution her against deceit?
It's silly to pretend there's no friction or stigma about mixes etc.
We don't need to lop that onto op she's having a hard enough time right now.
edited to say --I see that you are from another country--there's a whole big deal about this scrtach versus mix myth in America that you may or may not be aware of.
Of course I am aware of the scratch/mix debate, I am on Cake Central
I think you overreacted due to your prejudice. I found your post to be judgmental and contradictory and that is why I commented.
I really have never thought that people (on CC) use the word "lie" in a phrase to cast judgment... I think the phrase/word has become such a colloquialism in the English language that people throw it out there without thinking of the many different ways it could be interpreted. JMHO
There are a ton of really great points on here! I like how Indy pointed out alot of restaurants serve premade foods, just heated up or thrown together. I think most of the chain restaurants are like that.
I do have customers that love the way my cakes taste. The funny thing is, I am 50/50 scratch/doctored box. I've had bridal tastings where they chose the doctored box mix (unknowingly) OVER the scratch cake!!!! People do like the fluffy taste of a box/bakery cake. I personally really like Sam's Club cakes, I think they are yummy. I think if you could get cakes that taste like that (can you even order cakes from them, uniced? I don't see why not, if they sell their icing...????) most people are going to love it! Plus like they said, homemade icings and fillings add a whole 'nother dimension to a cake. I could make a nice scratch cake and then ice it with canned icing (yuck)...or I could use an uniced Sam's bakery cake and fill it with homemade ganache and ice it with real butter buttercream and people are going to be wowed.
Plus hey how awesome is that not to have to bake????? (Today is my baking day *sigh*) And if you need to carve, just stack a bunch up and go to town.
And yeah I'd just be honest...."According to the laws in this state I am not able to bake my own recipes...however I get my cakes from a high quality bakery and then use my own icing and decorating skills."
I betcha most people will love your cakes so much they never even ask. I think in the almost 7 years I've been here in this area and selling cakes (not always super busy though in the earlier years) I've only had a small handful of people ask if I used a box mix. But I've had a ton of people "oooh" and "ahhhh" over a doctored box mix with some nice buttery icing and a nice decorating job!
Okay I'm shutting up now. LOL. I wish you the best in your business!
yes, Kitagrl, you can get cases (sold by the case only and no mixin' and matchin') of uniced cakes from Sam's club. The only time they get pre-iced cakes in is around graduation to help with the case production to ease the increased orders. Only during this time and only sheet cakes will come in pre-iced...along with the regular/doubled/tripled uniced cakes. Some clubs require preordering them others will order enough to accomodate random sales. Check with the bakery manager for a club in your area.
yes, Kitagrl, you can get cases (sold by the case only and no mixin' and matchin') of uniced cakes from Sam's club. The only time they get pre-iced cakes in is around graduation to help with the case production to ease the increased orders. Only during this time and only sheet cakes will come in pre-iced...along with the regular/doubled/tripled uniced cakes. Some clubs require preordering them others will order enough to accomodate random sales. Check with the bakery manager for a club in your area.
I don't need to do that but I'm just saying I think their cakes taste good and it might be an option for the OP to try. I don't think anyone would complain about the flavor of a Sam's cake iced and filled with homemade ingredients.
The only problem with the "they didn't ask, so why bring it up" policy is that there are people out there that are allergic to preservatives and if nothing is said about using boxed mixes and they assume you are a scratch baker there can be some real problems. I know because I had it happen to me! It wasn't my fault the customer thought I only baked from scratch (I do mostly, but they didn't know I use a doctored box mix for carved cakes for stability) It's a good thing for everyone involved that something was said as they were ordering a carved Star Wars cake! I would hate to have someone get really sick and then maybe have to deal with the whole thing legally {shudder}
I checked and the cakes sold in the grocery store that are pre-made have preservatives listed on the label. How would the OP deal with that? Wouldn't something need to be said about what exactly is in the cakes? Don't we all need to say something about what is in our cakes or should we assume that people that have allergies would just know to ask you if you use mixes?
The only problem with the "they didn't ask, so why bring it up" policy is that there are people out there that are allergic to preservatives and if nothing is said about using boxed mixes and they assume you are a scratch baker there can be some real problems. I know because I had it happen to me! It wasn't my fault the customer thought I only baked from scratch (I do mostly, but they didn't know I use a doctored box mix for carved cakes for stability) It's a good thing for everyone involved that something was said as they were ordering a carved Star Wars cake! I would hate to have someone get really sick and then maybe have to deal with the whole thing legally {shudder}
I checked and the cakes sold in the grocery store that are pre-made have preservatives listed on the label. How would the OP deal with that? Wouldn't something need to be said about what exactly is in the cakes? Don't we all need to say something about what is in our cakes or should we assume that people that have allergies would just know to ask you if you use mixes?
Here in my state, I do not legally have to have ingredients listed for custom orders. Soooo it is my customer's responsibility to notify me of any allergies when they place their order. Since I don't have ESP I won't know unless they say!
My son is basically allergic to preservatives and even acids like lemon juice (has chronic urticaria, many foods exacerbate his condition, he's on eight pills per day for it, and he's four years old). You can believe I find out what is in something before I give it to him. I would never just order something and give it to him assuming anything. Actually I usually just bring him his own food if I go somewhere, just in case the food has preservatives...which is pretty much everything these days.
I think the OP doesn't have to worry about allergies. If they tell her they are allergic, she can't make their cake. If they don't, she has no way of knowing and thus no way of being responsible.
Regarding the allergy thing-I also have family with food allergies and I also have an adhd son who I have on a diet which restricts what I feed him. No dyes and there are certain preservatives I won't let him eat either. It's a lot of label reading. Therefor, when we are out and something is offered to him, I read the label-skip feeding it to him if I can't or ask.
I also make it part of "Which flavor cake do you want?" when taking an order to ask about allergies or food concerns. There is always the chance that someone will forget to tell you about a food allergy or sensitivity, but I feel like if you've asked and they say there are none-really what else can you do about it?
I only know of some very foirst tier decorators like maybe margeret braun or lovin sullivancakes (I wonder if she is business still) based out o NYC who do not bake their cakes. I could be wrong about Braun.
I personally think costco cakes are not bad and wegmens is delicious. But as a customer if I knew what was going on, that a custom baker was getting her cakes from sams club I would feel sort of cheated.
Now technically do you have to disclose that? I don't know, becuase really the person will be getting what they are paying for. I don't tell them what vender I brought my fondant or butter from......
Sorry for your dilema it stinks!!!
I was fooled just last week--and I am a baker! My grocery store had this advertisement on the main readerboard as you go down the main road:
Freshly Made, Baked From Scratch Pound Cake Today!
In my kitchen that is a pound cake that had all the ingredients measured out separately with fresh eggs, butter, flour, etc. When I pulled in and asked, they were pound cakes made with a mix and water by the baker that day, so therefore they were "scratched" together LOL And yes, there were preservatives in the mix, I checked.
What is the saying, Caveat Emptor? Let the buyer beware in this day and age.
Hi all....Well here's my two cents worth....I have done cakes for a long time now, and I have always used mixes, and I could give a hoot if someone thinks it's horrifying that I do this!
I tried to make scratch cakes, and they tasted like saw dust, and the chocolate didn't taste like chocolate. I tell my customerst that they aren't from scratch. Other than a customer here or there in nineteen years, the rest just look at me, and say, "OK" Also, I make all of my fillings except for the Raspberry fillings, and I tell my customers. Again, all I get is "OK"....
As for allergies? This may sound snotty (Sure don't mean for it to) Take the worry out of it. Put a label on your cake box with the ingredients listed on it, whether your county requires it or not. I list the ingredients on mine (One: because here it is required and Two: it makes me relax knowing it's there) I highlight any allergens listed in red as I go along in typing the ingredients, so it makes then stand out.
Op can use cakes from someone else. In fact, if I had the freezer space, I would consider doing that for the last minute cake orders I tend to get.
I have worked with a pastry chef or two that did no baking! They thawed and set out desserts for large events. Go figure that! Well anyway....Like everyone has said....Do what you gotta do....This could get OP in a position to have her own kitchen, and then do her own baking quicker...Who knows?
wegmans as a company bake their own cakes in rochester freezes them and sends them out to their stores. Along with MANY of their items they have a central bakeshop and offer high quality. They also have a patiserrie in some of their lagrer stores and have top pastry chefs working on them.The only thing u can't get at wegmans is the quality of decorating for stacked ,carved and fondant cakes,but u can get a simple decorated cake at a great price.(and they are yummy too)
The bakeries that I've worked that do scratch use stabilizers. So I mean whether the stabilizer comes from a box pre-mixed or they add it in with a list of ingredients --it's still in there.
i know shoprite grocery stores use a great frozen cake its ALLEN brand.
I'm with djs328. I think i'd take my chances and produce my signature cakes, especially to build business. I would use the "store-bought" in times of need (maybe). I also like the idea of perfecting your sugar syrups and icing and skills (if that's what you choose to do), but it would be hard for me to sell what someone else has produced. I'm a fairly inexperienced decorator, so i can guarantee the flavor of my cakes moreso than the look. as long as it's neat, I am going more for the flavor. I'm just wondering how in the world would the Health Department know whether you are baking a cake for sale or not? It's not like you are dealing drugs, you are baking a cake. AND like someone else said, if your home is not suitable for baking cakes, it's not suitable for mixing icing or slathering the icing on a cake with your "rusty, dusty" spatula on top of your cruddy countertops, either. LOL...just kidding.[/quote]
just don't lie and say scratch.
I am fully annoyed at people who preach that others should "not lie" about what kind of cake they make. Not just the one in this thread but all of ya'll!
I think it's off the chart disrespectful to assume that someone would lie and then feel the self righteous need to tell people over and over and over and over not to. It's also patronizing, inflexible and judgemental.
There are nine other commandments.
We probably should not covet other people's silver plateaus either.
We probably should not kill them with cake either.
But nobody's repeating those commandmanet ad nauseum.
So if you do scratch cakes and you want the pre-emminance then you're gonna have to get it by your great baking without pounding the mix users over the head with it. That they have to keep those imaginary lines clean and sharp and fully confessed before God and everybody. 'It' being the silly unfounded schism on how you bake.
If you bake one way or the other and you think people should be frank about it then go 'head be frank about it but stay out of other people's adherence or not to the ten commandments.
Wow. I think she was just suggesting that it is important to be honest with the consumer - can't see what is offensive about that. Would you have reacted the same if she had said home made instead of scratch?
Read my post again if you want to know why I said that. I was pretty clear.
Simply put, why would anyone need to caution her against deceit?
It's silly to pretend there's no friction or stigma about mixes etc.
We don't need to lop that onto op she's having a hard enough time right now.
edited to say --I see that you are from another country--there's a whole big deal about this scrtach versus mix myth in America that you may or may not be aware of.
Of course I am aware of the scratch/mix debate, I am on Cake Central
I think you overreacted due to your prejudice. I found your post to be judgmental and contradictory and that is why I commented.
Holy crap SOMEbody got up on the wrong side of the bed! That was my "don't lie" quote. Don't lie. Ever. It's a bad thing. Is there a debate on that? The post was not intended at a dig at anybody. What I was trying to point out was there is a bigger difference in box vs. scratch (taste, allergies, preservatives, whatever) than i bake a box vs. prebaked box. There were several people who seemed horrified that she would consider using premade cakes, but I wondered if any of them used boxes - which is quite nearly the same thing! You'll notice that I was supporting her use of the product, so clearly I wasn't trying to bash.
So to reiterate, you don't necessarily have to disclose that you bought the cakes prebaked cause it's not that much different than box which clearly plenty of people are just fine with. Just don't lie and say scratch just like you would just not lie about anything.
The bakeries I worked that made scratch cake added the stablizers that are listed on the boxes of cake mix.
Scratch cake + stabilizers = (everything we love to hate about) cake mix
Duncan Hines white cake mix (and maybe others) does not have preservatives.
Don't forget everybody, don't kill anyone with your cake just like you wouldn't run anyone over with your car.
The bakeries I worked that made scratch cake added the stablizers that are listed on the boxes of cake mix.
Scratch cake + stabilizers = (everything we love to hate about) cake mix
Duncan Hines white cake mix (and maybe others) does not have preservatives.
Don't forget everybody, don't kill anyone with your cake just like you wouldn't run anyone over with your car.
Hi K8! Ah, you're up to this again, eh? I can always count on you to show up on the mix-vs-scratch threads 
I just wanted to pipe in that I do bake from scratch, like a lot of other bakers here, and neither I nor they use "stabilizers". Maybe the bakeries you worked in did, but not everyone does. I also don't add artificial flavors or added trans fats, like they have in boxed mixes, even the ones that say "no preservatives" on the labels. But we've gone through this before, haven't we? 
To the OP, do what you need to do to feel right about what you're selling and about your legal situation as far as licensing goes. And if a customer asks you, tell them the truth. It's called truth in advertising. Most people won't care, but if someone does ask they do care for whatever reason, so you need to be honest. No big deal...
Oh, and I think it was Margaret Braun in NYC who doesn't do her own baking, but it sounds like a lot of other decorators work that way, too, based on the other responses in this thread.
Can someone give me an example of a stabilizer that a bakery would add to their cakes? I add things to my homemade wheat bread (powdered ginger, lecithin, etc) to make it softer and last longer, but they are all natural. Are stabilizers the same things or are they man made chemicals? Just curious because I don't add anything extra to my cakes or cookies. Do other home bakers?
The bakeries I worked that made scratch cake added the stablizers that are listed on the boxes of cake mix.
Scratch cake + stabilizers = (everything we love to hate about) cake mix
Duncan Hines white cake mix (and maybe others) does not have preservatives.
Don't forget everybody, don't kill anyone with your cake just like you wouldn't run anyone over with your car.
Hi K8! Ah, you're up to this again, eh? I can always count on you to show up on the mix-vs-scratch threads
I just wanted to pipe in that I do bake from scratch, like a lot of other bakers here, and neither I nor they use "stabilizers". Maybe the bakeries you worked in did, but not everyone does. I also don't add artificial flavors or added trans fats, like they have in boxed mixes, even the ones that say "no preservatives" on the labels. But we've gone through this before, haven't we? To the OP, do what you need to do to feel right about what you're selling and about your legal situation as far as licensing goes. And if a customer asks you, tell them the truth. It's called truth in advertising. Most people won't care, but if someone does ask they do care for whatever reason, so you need to be honest. No big deal...
Hi, CakeBuddy.
I'm not the father confessor to tell me if you do or don't use stabilizers. No one will hold it against you either way is my understanding. Honestly it would make a great cake a stellar cake in the hands of someone careful and using high quality ingredients.
My point is that baking from scratch is not always baking 'from scratch'. Sometimes baking from scratch is measuring cake mix ingredients one by one.
I hope I did not upset the chemicalaphobic amongst us.
Twinkies are made from scratch.
Can someone give me an example of a stabilizer that a bakery would add to their cakes? I add things to my homemade wheat bread (powdered ginger, lecithin, etc) to make it softer and last longer, but they are all natural. Are stabilizers the same things or are they man made chemicals? Just curious because I don't add anything extra to my cakes or cookies. Do other home bakers?
See my sentence there at the bottom of my post? Jilk cake stabilizer is available from Albert Uster Imports--google it if you want--it ain't cheap.
You use lecithin and have a problem with manmade chemicals??
Powdered ginger is not altered and not man made?
I am not being a dip. I'm being for real. Where do we draw the lines? Just past the products and ingredients we are familiar with??
We have this idea that Betty Crocker and Duncan Hines have a hellacious pharmaceuticalized bastard love child, the cake mix. That in a previous life it was the blob that ate Chicago.
Most all our stuff is treated and tweaked and refined and mass produced and changed from it's original state.
Ok fellow CCer's. I may be opening a can of worms here, but....what is the BIG DEBATE re: mixes vs scratch? I guess I totally missed something here!! Obviously this get's some of you all up in arms (k8memphis
). I'm not trying to start anything, but if someone could reply...NICELY so I could get caught up on what I missed. 
There are those on the side of "if you use a box mix you are a fake baker."
There are those on the side of "it doesn't matter what I use as long as the customer is happy."
Where it gets ugly.....usually when someone posts something to the effect of the first quotation.
I normally stay out of these debates, but Jamie's quote made me want to give my thoughts.
I am a scratch baker, and am proud of it. I have made mix cakes in the past, and swear that there are demons that target me and only me with regard to cake mixes. I grew up in 4H (as I'm sure many others here did) and still have a great amount of pride when I can turn out a great loaf of white bread.
That said, to those of you that are mix bakers. Good for you. Many of you have amazing decorating skills, that I can only imagine having someday.
To the OP - do what you have to do for know, and what is right for you. In these economic conditions, finding the disposable cash to build a bakery would be really hard. I wish you the best of luck - and hope that in the next few years, you get your dream.
Here's the info about the cake stuff:
Jilk Cake Emulsifier
Code: 023001
Price: $48.48
11lbs/5kg; Use for one-step sponge cake production. Both time- and labor-saving, cakes made with jilk will not fall or shrink, will keep their volume, and stay fresh longer and have a fine, smooth texture. Batter may be made up to 24 hours ahead of time. Jilk is sugar-free! Use 3% of the total weight of a recipe. For example, a 4 kg batch of cake batter, include 120 g of Jilk. Please take a look at our online recipe database for recipes specifically designed for Jilk. Cake recipe: * Place eggs and water/liquid in mixing bowl. * Scale Jilk (3% of recipes total weight) with sugar and add to mixing bowl. * Add flour, flavorings, and baking powder. * Mix all ingredients at high speed for 1½ - 3 minutes (for very large batches mix for 5 - 6 minutes). * When the mix forms peaks, stop machine immediately. * Mix is then ready for baking. Bake within 24 hours of preparation. Jilk requires a 25 - 50ºF increase in baking temperature.
I mean why wouldn't you use it?
Oh, and I think it was Margaret Braun in NYC who doesn't do her own baking, but it sounds like a lot of other decorators work that way, too, based on the other responses in this thread.
In her book, her kitchen looks the size of a postage stamp. A small one.
But OP, Jessie Munchkin, I got this way off your track here.
But at least you got lots of great info for your quest.
Best of the best to you always--and to all CakeBuddies, me too.
I hope all our dreams come true, stabilized, scratched, mixed and/or emulsified.
K8, has anybody here but you brought up adding stabilizers to their scratch recipes? What crawled up your butt that you feel like turning this genuine thread into a flame fest with you against the world?
For the record, I bake from scratch and don't any any sort of stabilizer/preservative ingredients, just flour, sugar, eggs, etc... I also don't give a hot damn if other people do. I'm just a proponent of full disclosure when asked (ie the ever enraging statement "don't lie").
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