So last week I got hired as a cake decorator for a new business where the owners don't know how to make or decorate cakes and they want me to do it for them. When I accepted the job I thought they had some knowledge of cakes or the business and all I would be doing was decorating the cakes. I accepted a low wage to start as I rather have something than nothing. I started at $9/hr. The problem is, they really have no idea what the cake business is about. They acquired the bakery from someone else with all the recipes and such and right now only do different kinds of pastries. They want me to not only decorate cakes, they also want me to bake them, make cookies (also decorate) and any kind of pastries that customers ask for. They also want me to talk to potential clients about new cake orders, and provide tastings and quotes. Now they don't even know how to price cakes. They almost gave a client a quote of $100 for a $300 job. They are constantly asking me how much to price for a cake that they did not ask all the details about because they don't know they have to. they also don't have the recipes they need, and they want me to provide my own personal recipes for their cakes and pastries. Basically, they want me to run the entire cake division of the bakery single handedly using all of my knowledge and skills and if necessary, recipes to fuel the business. Now I personally don't mind doing all this, after all, that's what cake decorators do. The problem is, with all this responsibility, it seems to me that $9/hr is an extremely low labor wage for the kind of service I am expected to provide. I also don't mind using my own recipes but I refuse to give it to them. They have asked me what ingredients I used for certain recipes and I was very ambiguous as to what it contained, no measurements or procedures, only basic ingredients. I'm not sure how to approach my boss to address this issue since I just started working there but I really don't want to be taken advantage of. Any thoughts?

Oh boy you sure got yourself into a mess here :(   My "off-the-top-my-head" reply is you MUST quickly make arrangements for a meeting with these people.  Lay out your thoughts much as you have here and tell them you expect more money for the extra - totally unexpected - work they are now expecting.  Under no circumstances do you give them your recipes!  Maybe consider selling them to the owners but not until you are ready to leave.  How to approach them depends on what kind of people you have found them to be.  Are they willing to listen?  Will they get angry and fire you right off?  Are they penny pinchers - ?ing any purchase you need for *their* business? 

Not sure but I think it's customczar on here that has lots of info about running a business.  I'm sure you would find some useful info if you can find her site or contact her. 

what kakeladi said...

Yeah, but I think it's not really the question IF and HOW Phun can run a business, it's that she was not hired and is not being paid to run the business. Right, Phun?

It a definition of duties and job description, and the fair pay for that job. You can hire an LVN (nurse) but she cannot be expected to do the job of the surgeon, nor is the pay the same. Sounds like they hired you are a decorator, and in fact, they now expect a bakery manager.

Sticky situation....

Well said, Johnson.    
"Sounds like they hired you as a decorator, and in fact, they now expect a bakery manager."

It also sounds as if these new owners may have no knowledge about how to run the entire business, not just the bakery department. PhunCakes, try looking at the big picture. It may give you perspective in deciding how you want to proceed.

@PhunCakes why don't you see if they are willing to go into business together. Maybe you guys can work something out, because it seems that you have all the knowledge about the cake business.

Yeah that's exactly the problem. They keep messaging me and asking me how to price cakes and cookies and if X amount of cake will be enough for the servings the customer needs and if we should make it different etc. They literally have NO idea how to run the business or how to price it. They asked me if they charged enough for custom cookies and how much I would charge and I'm just like ???? wtf??? It's YOUR business, this is YOUR job. If you want me to do it for you fine but its not for 9/hr you know? Again I just don't know how to let them know this without making them upset but I'm not getting paid enough they want me to manage everything.

Kakeladi, I'm not sure if they will be upset about me asking. They initially offered anywhere between 9-11/hr but then told me they wanted to start with 9/hr.  I'm not sure how to go about asking for more as I've never done it before and I don't want them to say they can't afford me and be without a job.

Honestly, I'm starting to realize they really don't. The questions they ask me are not the questions someone with a new shop would ask. I used to run a legal from-home bakery in a different state and I know WAYY more than they do right now. What do you mean big picture MimiFix? What would you suggest?

@Chelle43 Any ideas on how I can bring this up to them? I'm not good at asking for raises :/

"Owners - I'm so excited to be here.  I want to be successful and I want (name of Bakery) to be successful too!  I'm really concerned about some of the questions you've been asking me.  It's not that I don't know the answers, because I do.  You see (you may remember), I ran a very successful cake business in another state.  

I wasn't actually looking for a bakery manager job when I hired on here.  Again, not because I don't know how to manage a bakery, I do, but it wasn't the job you hired me for.  So now I'm confused.  If you want me to bake and decorate cakes, using your recipes, I can do that, and you will have great products to offer in your bakery.

However, if you'd prefer to put my background in baking, decorating and bakery management to use to help this business be successful, then we need to form a partnership, and redefine both my and your duties and responsibilities.

Either approach is agreeable to me.  I will be happy to limit my tasks to baking your recipes, decorating the cakes and cookies as specified on the orders that you take from the customers.

However, if you want me to assume a bigger role here, including costing, taking orders, conducting tastings and the like, then we will need to discuss this expanded role."

@PhunCakes ask them if they are willing to become business partners, and if they are. Ask at what price, but do your homework and find out how much the business is worth. If it's something that you are interested in, if you can't come up with the money all at once, since you are working there maybe they can take it out of your pay or production.

holy canoli @leah_s that was really well put hahaha thank you! you rock!

Other question: What do you guys thing I should ask for in terms of pay? Should I ask for an hourly wage? ( I know I need to make at least $15/hr to make ends meet as I'm a single mom working on getting my own apartment *right now in temporary housing situation*) Is this a good amount to ask for with these expanded duties? More? Less? Or should I consider some sort of commission structure? Please advise :) thanks in advance.

$15/hr, plus 20% commission on cakes you sell from your consultations.

I'm basing that on nothing other than, "if you don't ask the answer is always no.,"

or take out a small business loan

^^^^  #1 Leah S cheerleader here. ^^^^

Awesome advice, as always!

Leah had a great way to start the conversation! Hopefully, this can lead to an expanded employee role with a sizable salary increase.

But a partnership? Whoa... Remember to look at the big picture, starting with a hard look at the entire business and the people involved. 

You definitely deserve more for everything you are doing . Sounds like they want you to run the business and they take the profits .  Love what Leah wrote I agree with her . Best of luck to you .

Oh  no. Run far away from this mess, but don't be rude. I have seen this too many times, that is, someone buying a business that they have no clue about. They almost always end up closing. An old lady who Owned my parents community well decided to sell the business because it became too much for a 90+year old widow to handle all by herself. A group of friends decided  they would jump on the opportunity. They began pouring money into what they thought was a good opportunity. they put at least 20 people on payroll, contracted a plumbing  company exclusively, and installed shutoff vaulso for each customer, all this for a small subdivision with less than 50 houses. Now they are telling the residents  in the subdivision that they have two options either get a well or be put on the city water supply. I saw this coming. I have not owned  a bakery or restaurant, but my experience is from research and analysis( did that for a living).

i'm not saying it's intentional but regardless of that --  you are being taken advantage of -- so you need to decide if you want to work for flake-apotomuses -- not that they are not nice people but this is wrong in several ways -- why should they relinquish control or more money to you -- it's their business -- i'd say run --

sure they are asking for your help but they are in charge even so --

look for a decorator spot in a store bakery --sam's club, wal-mart, whole foods or a grocery store -- you'll get benefits -- clearly defined responsibilities -- you will work very hard and possibly probably have room to advance -- i think you said you are a single mom? you don't need this as an added incorrigible child that will never grow up and constantly have a mess in their diaper kwim? don't try to make this into something it's not -- look for something else fast --

best of the best to you

There is no way in hell I'd suggest entering a partnership with people that operate a business like this. I would, however, be pushing for $15 an hour to manage and decorate. We had a mutiny in the bakery I worked at over this same issue... we were left without a bakery manager, and we were all absorbing responsibilities above our paygrade. Not our skill level, but our paygrade. Advocate for yourself! If they think they can't afford you, they should see how expensive it is to run a bakery into the ground. Many home bakers go out of business because they can't get a handle on the business side of things, and they don't have nearly the overhead these guys have. They need you. Remember that.

K8 said to look into grocery stores ..... yrs ago I tried that.  The bakery dept  manager  was egear to let me start at experienced hrly rate but hold on........it was a union store and they insisted I had to start at beginner statis (minium wages) and work *full time for at least 3 yrs* before I would be eligible for a raise. 

Iif you are looking for something just be totally sure what all the ramifications are. 

Keep us updated on the status of your situation. We all support you. I am a hobby baker (but work in accounting for a corp) and have the highest regards for the pros. Don't let them continue to take advantage of you. We all support you.

thank you so much for all your advice and support :)

The more I work here the more I realize these people really don't know what they got themselves into. Nobody in the family makes cakes or has a bakery background. And even if they just bought it as a business, you'd think they'd at least have a business background to know how to price things and how to run a bakery even if they don't bake. They don't know anything. They repeatedly ask me how to price their cakes, their cookies etc. I have to ask for tools because I don't have what I need to decorate. Today I had to explain to her that a wedding cake chart will have more servings than a party cake chart because wedding cakes are cut with smaller slices etc. She had no clue about any of this before I clarified and she was extremely confused by the paperwork left behind by the previous owner (whom they bought the business from). She asked me to call a customer who had not paid the full amount of a cake they ordered that is due this Saturday. I had to call and collect the payment because she did not think to ask for the whole thing up front (The cake was needed in less than 2 weeks from order date). The list goes on an on. My plan is to wait for this weekend because I have 3 cakes to finish for Saturday & Sunday. After this, I will have something that proves the type of service and quality I'm bringing to the table and from there I can discuss with the owner the possibility of an expanded role with a pay increase. Oh they also want me to make the fondant. They buy this extremely expensive fondant and I am letting them because I will not offer my fondant recipe for 9/hr. I'll wait for them to make an offer. I'll update when I speak with him :)

Good luck! I hope you follow, in theory, what Leah S started with... that is firm, polite, true and helpful. Best, best, best of luck!!!!