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Hey y'all we just created a Cake venting page.
Feel free to join and add your cake buddies
Watch out what you post on facebook groups. Too many people have posted screenshots of "secret" groups that I've seen without even belonging to them for me to be comfortable complaining about clients on them! I only complain to select people ;)
AI do have a question about reporting illegal bakers, not too long ago I called to report one but nothing was done as they are still selling illegally. What can you do in this case? The man I spoke to explained to me how difficult it is to locate these illegal bakers because they only provide a facebook/instagram and an email nothing more. Unfortunately, the hd department needs a phone number and address to locate them and give them a warning. I also looked at the IRS website but they ask for a lot of information about the illegals that I don't have, not to mention I have to give them all of my information 8O
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I do have a question about reporting illegal bakers, not too long ago I called to report one but nothing was done as they are still selling illegally. What can you do in this case? The man I spoke to explained to me how difficult it is to locate these illegal bakers because they only provide a facebook/instagram and an email nothing more. Unfortunately, the hd department needs a phone number and address to locate them and give them a warning. I also looked at the IRS website but they ask for a lot of information about the illegals that I don't have, not to mention I have to give them all of my information
Send the illegal baker a message on facebook asking about buying an illegal cake and get a phone number and address to pick it up. :)
AThat's a good idea costumeczar! Starting to plot now lol
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Watch out what you post on facebook groups. Too many people have posted screenshots of "secret" groups that I've seen without even belonging to them for me to be comfortable complaining about clients on them! I only complain to select people ;)
Indeed. ;) Get your closest friends together, make a private group for yourselves and that's it, and share amongst yourselves. All the other groups, just sit back and watch the fun and have a laugh, but don't for ever for one second think your private rants are kept private. NOTHING is private, NOTHING is ever kept a secret, and NOTHING ever gets deleted for good. I love my small of group of cake friends that have been together for years now. Now there's a group I would trust with anything. <3
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Original message sent by AZCouture
Indeed. ;) Get your closest friends together, make a private group for yourselves and that's it, and share amongst yourselves. All the other groups, just sit back and watch the fun and have a laugh, but don't for ever for one second think your private rants are kept private. NOTHING is private, NOTHING is ever kept a secret, and NOTHING ever gets deleted for good. I love my small of group of cake friends that have been together for years now. Now there's a group I would trust with anything. <3
Especially since at this point we don't talk about cake much anymore! I think that the cake groups can get very catty and competitive no matter how happy and glossy they seem on the surface. And watch out if one of your competitors is on it and knows who you are. All bets are off then, don't post anything yo wouldn't want to say directly to your customers. If you post about how your cake fell over and a competitor sees it, that story is going to be told to customers. And to other wedding professionals, since they're the worst gossipers I've ever come across! And it will go from "the cake had a chunk taken out of the corner and i had to fix it" to "her cake totally collapsed in front of the entire reception right before the cake cutting and it was also full of rat hair."
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Original message sent by pamlovestobake
That's a good idea costumeczar! Starting to plot now lol
I don't know how it works in CA, but in VA the person who turns an illegal business gets a percentage of the back taxes and fines the offender has to pay. I know a caterer whose hobby is turning in illegal caterers and getting fees from the state for it. He says that when he sees people at Costco loading up a big pallet with stuff that's obviously for catering he chats them up, finds out if they're catering illegally, then gets a business card or contact info and turns them in. And he's such a loudmouth he'll TELL them to their face he's turning them in and gives them a lecture about how they're taking food out of his children's mouths by stealing income from legitimate businesses.
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I don't know how it works in CA, but in VA the person who turns an illegal business gets a percentage of the back taxes and fines the offender has to pay. I know a caterer whose hobby is turning in illegal caterers and getting fees from the state for it. He says that when he sees people at Costco loading up a big pallet with stuff that's obviously for catering he chats them up, finds out if they're catering illegally, then gets a business card or contact info and turns them in. And he's such a loudmouth he'll TELL them to their face he's turning them in and gives them a lecture about how they're taking food out of his children's mouths by stealing income from legitimate businesses.
Wow, and he's never suffered any backlash? He must be a BIG guy!
ANot sure costumeczar looking at the IRS website they require you to fill out a 3949-A form, with personal info (social, address, how much income they are making and hiding). Lots of personal information that would be hard to get without knowing them personally, along with my information. They sure make it tough to report illegal businesses :-t
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Original message sent by pamlovestobake
Not sure costumeczar looking at the IRS website they require you to fill out a 3949-A form, with personal info (social, address, how much income they are making and hiding). Lots of personal information that would be hard to get without knowing them personally, along with my information. They sure make it tough to report illegal businesses :-t
Report them to the local health department first, they'll go and give them the lecture about what they need to do to get legal. If it escalates to the IRS level they'll get involved all on their own.
AOh I did but nothing was done since they have no address or phone number listed, they are all still selling. I tried to be polite and contacted all of them about being legal, pricing and the impact it has on all bakeries but they were all rude about it. A few said that's the reason they are illegal, to be affordable to everyone at $1.50-2 a slice and cupcakes. Some never responded and one said to mind my own business 8O
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Original message sent by pamlovestobake
Oh I did but nothing was done since they have no address or phone number listed, they are all still selling. I tried to be polite and contacted all of them about being legal, pricing and the impact it has on all bakeries but they were all rude about it. A few said that's the reason they are illegal, to be affordable to everyone at $1.50-2 a slice and cupcakes. Some never responded and one said to mind my own business 8O
Of course they did...if they ever took the time to get legal they'd be the first to scream about how wrong it is to run an illegal business, too.
wow
Making a hobby to turn illegal bakers or caterers? .... I know the health Dpt. looks for them anyway. Where are bakers supposed to start?
I baked from home for 5 years until I had the courage and money to have a store front....everyone hast to start somewhere.
There will always be people that can't afford the $5 a slice I charge then they go to the home bakers that charge $2.... I still have enough business to keep me busy and reject cakes 2-3 times a week because we're fully booked.
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wow
Making a hobby to turn illegal bakers or caterers? .... I know the health Dpt. looks for them anyway. Where are bakers supposed to start?
I baked from home for 5 years until I had the courage and money to have a store front....everyone hast to start somewhere.
There will always be people that can't afford the $5 a slice I charge then they go to the home bakers that charge $2.... I still have enough business to keep me busy and reject cakes 2-3 times a week because we're fully booked.
Then you're lucky, because there are plenty of businesses that end up closing because of the influx of people who have started selling cakes and undercutting pricing. In my area there are at least three or four people who appear a week, I'm not kidding. They also disappear pretty fast, but as long as there's a supply of people who are selling cakes and making about $3 an hour the legitimate businesses won't be able to survive. I'm pretty well established around here so it hasn't affected me as much, but I've noticed that people are hunting around for the lowest price more than ever, and they're finding it a lot more often because of the sheer glut of custom cakes being offered for ridiculous pricing. I've had a few friends decide that they can't make enough money in it, so they've had to close their businesses recently, and it's because of the surge in "cake ladies" who sell from home without any kind of licensing or inspections or whatever. It's a problem.
Then you're lucky, because there are plenty of businesses that end up closing because of the influx of people who have started selling cakes and undercutting pricing. In my area there are at least three or four people who appear a week, I'm not kidding. They also disappear pretty fast, but as long as there's a supply of people who are selling cakes and making about $3 an hour the legitimate businesses won't be able to survive. I'm pretty well established around here so it hasn't affected me as much, but I've noticed that people are hunting around for the lowest price more than ever, and they're finding it a lot more often because of the sheer glut of custom cakes being offered for ridiculous pricing. I've had a few friends decide that they can't make enough money in it, so they've had to close their businesses recently, and it's because of the surge in "cake ladies" who sell from home without any kind of licensing or inspections or whatever. It's a problem.
Look I am not defending unlicensed businesses but laying the responsibility for closures at the feet of "cake ladies" significantly over-simplifies the industry. No one here knows how your friends ran/run their businesses but your success demonstrates the claim that legitimate businesses will not survive due to the "surge in 'cake ladies'" is simply false. Do they make it harder? Maybe but that assumes they are taking clients that would have otherwise gone to you when in all likelihood the majority of their "clients" would never have been able to afford you anyway. Indeed how many times have folks on this board espoused the idea that prices should not be set by those looking for cheap cake?
So you cannot have it both ways. That price structure will contribute to the formation of a black market. People cannot afford your prices, cake shows like Cake Boss, the party industry, and lets not forget discourses about being a good mother, all work to create desires in children and adults for elaborate cakes. This does not mean they should be able to have them. rather it is to recognize the fact that forces operate on individuals to influence our desires. So prices are set and folks cannot meet them, what do you think is going to happen?
And before folks blame individuals, think about your own practices. Whether you have hired them or not, you have never thought about hiring the unlicensed mechanic work on your car? How about the "handyman" in the neighborhood who you get to repair your roof or to do some kitchen remodeling? If you truly have never hired someone outside of legitimate markets or thought about it then you are likely a rare person. The point is people hire mechanics, contractors etc outside of legitimate markets and yet legitimate businesses thrive--just as many established cake store fronts do.
Those businesses you cite may have failed for any number of reasons--poor product, poor customer service, poor advertising, poor businesses practices. It is simply too easy to blame unlicensed "cake ladies." Yes unlicensed bakers can negatively impact markets but they have always been around and they will always be around. Turn them in, but recognize many businesses are profitable despite the existence of unlicensed cake ladies. They are not the scourge they are made out to be.
Originally Posted by gatorcake
.... If you truly have never hired someone outside of legitimate markets or thought about it then you are likely a rare person. The point is people hire mechanics, contractors etc outside of legitimate markets ...
I have never hired an un-licensed mechanic, contractor, plumber, electrician, or anything else and I don't know anyone who has. I do not think we are rare. The cake price undercutters bring the value of the entire custom cake industry down and they do take business away from licensed bakers.
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I have never hired an un-licensed mechanic, contractor, plumber, electrician, or anything else and I don't know anyone who has. I do not think we are rare. The cake price undercutters bring the value of the entire custom cake industry down and they do take business away from licensed bakers.
I don't hire anyone who isn't licensed either, so we can be rare together, @pastrypet 
And you're right about undercutters dragging the cake industry down. Too much supply and not enough demand will create low prices faster than it will create a "black market" (which sounds very sinister.) I stand by my opinion of the "cake ladies" who drag pricing down. It's not that it's a new thing, but the sheer volume of people who are selling cakes these days is unlike anything I've ever seen, and I've been doing this for almost 20 years. This industry always had a low bar to entry, and it's even lower than it was now.
Originally Posted by costumeczar
I don't hire anyone who isn't licensed either, so we can be rare together, @pastrypet
My husband and I will only use a licensed, legal business. Using a legitimate business gives consumers more protection since a minimum standard has been met, such as having insurance, license, and respect for our laws. Sorry, but when I hear people rally around those illegal cake businesses, it always sounds as if they are illegal, too.
I also don't hire unlicensed workers. Doing what it takes to be licensed in whatever profession says to me that you know what you're doing and that you're not just doing it for a couple bucks here and there when you want to. It's declaring that you're bona fide and that offers peace of mind to me.
I've had people I called for jobs arrange to come to do an estimate, but not show up when I left a message saying that I couldn't find their licensing information online and to please bring it with them. I want to make sure that anyone who's doing anything on my property has insurance etc.
AI have to agree with the majority here, we(my husband and both our families) only hire licensed contractors etc. we have heard many horror stories of work gone wrong to save a few bucks. Now I will set the record straight it is not my "hobby" to turn them in, many people, friends and family have let me know how disappointed they were to see a cake wreck or they found a hair inside the cake or the bakers take pictures of their kids helping bake and decorate with their dogs slobbering next to the frosting etc etc. Not to mention the fact that 2 legitimate really good bakeries have closed, customers expecting to pay $50 for a tiered fondant cake to feed 100 people. In fact, just the other day a woman posted on facebook asking for a good LEGAL baker/decorator because of her bad experience(food poisoning) from an illegal baker.
AOk, please don't bash me for this. How do you make sure you are a "legitimate" business? It seems like no one I ask know the whole answer. I live in Texas where there's the Cottage Food Law. I've taken the online classes, paid my money, etc. But I don't know what to do with the city/county. Every office I call tells me I don't have to do anything, but surely there's other things I need to do. Anybody have any advice on where to start to make sure I'm legal?
AOk, please don't bash me for this. How do you make sure you are a "legitimate" business? It seems like no one I ask know the whole answer. I live in Texas where there's the Cottage Food Law. I've taken the online classes, paid my money, etc. But I don't know what to do with the city/county. Every office I call tells me I don't have to do anything, but surely there's other things I need to do. Anybody have any advice on where to start to make sure I'm legal?
Ok, please don't bash me for this. How do you make sure you are a "legitimate" business? It seems like no one I ask know the whole answer. I live in Texas where there's the Cottage Food Law. I've taken the online classes, paid my money, etc. But I don't know what to do with the city/county. Every office I call tells me I don't have to do anything, but surely there's other things I need to do. Anybody have any advice on where to start to make sure I'm legal?
If they say you don't need to do anything you're fine. Not every city/county has separate rules but some do.
Running a legitimate business encompasses (1) meeting health licensing requirements and (2) keeping records so that all taxes are paid. If your CFL does not require a license, then there's nothing you need to do on that end. But all businesses are required to keep records and pay appropriate taxes. 
AI agree with aggiewife12. There are cottage foods laws here in mississippi. Ive spoken to the county and state health department. No inspections, licenses or anything else is required to sell homemade goods. They must be labelled as such and be non potentially hazardous. Ive asked specifically about cakes and was told as long as its not a cheesecake or have custard fillings its fine. In any economy there are those on different ends of the pay scale. Many wouldnt dream of working for less than $20/hr. Many others work for minimum wage. You also get what you pay for. Some are comfortable hiring unlicensed workers (which in many cases is not illegal) and some want to pay more for licensed workers. Ive owned a licenses and health department inspected business ans now that my circustances are different i sell cakes on the side, legally, under the cottage foods law. My overhead is not the same. The amount i need to make on each cake is not the same. I set my prices based on my costs and desired wage per hour.im not the cheapest or most expensive. I pride myseld on quality and get referrals and repeat business. Thats the nature of business, competition and economy.
To clarify the expression "black market", its kind of a British thing.
During the Second World War Britain suffered terribly with food and commodities shortages due to Adolphs' finest sinking merchant ships, the Blitz by the Lufwaffe right along the shores where we built our ships and basically tried to eke a living.
Enter stage left the "black marketeer" selling tinned goods, fresh eggs and flour.
Possibly a dodgy entrepeneur, but a life saver against hardship, its a human trait and frankly makes the world go around.
Our best black marketeers came from the States when they joined in the fight against Adolph and the Beastie Boys, nylon never felt so good on a British lady's legs?
People without custom cake money will always find a way to get a cake from someone who can bake, just as a gifted seamstress will always find work running up curtains from Knock off fabric to make furnishings or clothes for someone who cant afford Vera Wang.
Not all your competition is a cake wreck, some are stay at home mothers who can truly bake from scratch (a big thing in the UK) and decorate with a few You Tube vids.
It has always been the way and the so called "black economy" is very often the only way a community or a country can survive, it's not going away.
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