Do You Feel Like Less If You Use Box Mixes In Your Recipe?
Decorating By Dayyi Updated 16 Oct 2011 , 9:57pm by DaDa561
An afterthought... one day I'd love to learn to bake a great scratch cake (and I've been working at it), so if I ask questions about it, please don't insult me and make me feel inferior.
Also, you may want to learn to decorate with fondant , and I will do my best to help you and not insult you.
That's the whole point of this website is to learn from each other.. not put people down![/b]
No, I don't feel "less". I have no reason to.
My cakes are delicious--and I get feedback on EVERY cake I make, so that determination is made by my clients, not me.
I, like Apti, start with a box, but add so much to it that it's very different when finished.
I entered a coconut cake with pomegranate BC in a tasting competition. I was reluctant to do so because I knew that most, if not all, of my competition would be scratch bakers, but I thought it was a good opportunity to see how my doctored mix would stand up in a crowd.
Two of the 3 judges were Toba Garrett & Nick Malgieri.
I came in second out of about 10 cakes.............'NUFF SAID!!
Oh, and although I did add some mascarpone cheese to the BC to tone down the sweetness...........It was a PS, butter & hi ratio recipe, too. Not a spoonful of meringue in sight.......
Rae
That is awesome! I also use a doctored mix, and at a wedding at an exclusive resort the executive chef asked me for my recipe!
I wish I could use boxed cake mix. I am a hobby baker but bake for friends that have food allergies, none of the major cake mix companies can certify that there are no traces of dairy in their cake mixes. I practice a lot with boxed mixes and the results are always the same. Not to mention much cheaper, so you can even save your clients money. Baking from scratch is expensive I find. When I bake from scratch, even using a scale sometimes the cakes just don't come out right.
If it tastes good, and works for your decorations go for it!
gator, I addressed the remarks that it is all the same, box and scratch.
My baking is, indeed, art. I advocate that there is room for all processes in the market. But in no way are they similar. The degree of variance is the same as dining experiences... from fast food to fine dining. Is the accomplished chef a better cook than a cook at McDonald's? Yes. So just like the dining experience, bakers fall into the same "list", from bad to celebrated top chefs. Restaurants are judged by ingredients and skill, as are bakers.
Is my baking process superior to mixes? Of course it is. Is one way wrong vs. right? no. Am I a better baker? Yes. Does that clear it up for you.
Scratch baking has to be something you want to do. If you don't like it, don't do it. But I don't put down people with other skills, such as an athlete, doctor, or artist. Why should this skill not be recognized for what it is? I'm a decent knitter. But I don't go into high end knit shops and put down the works of the pros. Instead I appreciate the talent. I also know I will never get to that level if I don't work harder. But I'm where I want to be, so I will admire and compliment superior work and go home and do my less skilled work and enjoy it. I used to do some faux painting work. I was pretty good at it. But I was far from an expert. Again, I was happy where I was. This can be applied to baking. Bake where you are happy and can enjoy it. But there will always be a hierarchy in the culinary skills, as with all learned skills.
Just a comment though... just because you bake from scratch doesn't mean your cakes taste better than box-mixed cakes (as someone pointed out). In your case scp, I'm sure your cakes are awesome because you are so confident in your skills.. and that's great. But just in general, a scratch cake does not beat a boxed cake every time. 
Sorry Sugar, but my cakes are better. And so are the cakes of the ever growing group of bakers who have taken the craft to the artisan level. Ignore it if it makes you happy, but it is there.
In every post, I have reiterated to do what you feel you do best, and enjoy your spot in the market. Baked goods, like all culinary arts, have many diversified practitioners. Many are good at all levels of the baking field. But there is a higher level of skill that some persue. There is no reason to put down the craft just because it's not something you want to persue.
Susan, while I admire you and agree with you 100%...it's not worth debating.
Just as "every kid deserves a trophy" in some's eyes...mix bakers need to feel that their skills are right up there with ours when it comes to baking.
Let them believe that...our clients know and appreciate the difference which is why they're our clients. 
As I said earlier...if baking from scratch were so easy, everyone would be doing it.
If people think that's "snobbish" or "disingenuous", well so be it...think what you must.
I certainly don't think people with skills I don't possess are snobs. 
Painting is an art as well, and how the finished painting looks matters most to the consumer, whether you bought cheap paints from Michael's or squeezed beets to get red beet juice to make your own.
Scratch bakers aren't necessarily better decorators, and most brides want a pretty cake first and foremost. Most customers of specialty cakes seek artists that can execute their vision. Decorating skills are the art that covers the cake--scratch or mix.
So not all scratch cakes are superior just because they are scratch. And they don't necessarily taste better. It is not up to the baker to determine their product is superior, it is up to the consumer that purchases them.
Sorry Sugar, but my cakes are better. And so are the cakes of the ever growing group of bakers who have taken the craft to the artisan level. Ignore it if it makes you happy, but it is there.
Umm, she never said your cakes were not as good as mix, she said some scratch cakes wouldn't be as good, which if you are arguing the point that "scratch baking is an art" I would think you would agree with the statement that not everyone's scratch cake tastes good, since not everyone has the skill. I've read on this board how some scratch recipes are horrible and shouldn't be used. I think that's the point she was trying to make, not saying that your cakes are not as good as mix.
You know, this whole conversation is really funny to me, because I have been scratch baking since I was young, and I have never thought of myself as having a "special skill".
I don't believe anyone should feel inferior-do what your customers like and what you feel comfortable with.
Scratch baking is an art and i feel it should be respected as such. I bake from scratch and understand just how special it is. I bake because I love it. I wanted to learn as much as I could about it: the roles of the ingredients, quality of ingredients, methods of mixing, etc No, not every scratch cake is created equal. I made some awful scratch cakes in the beginning (I knew they were awful and it drove me to learn more, practice, study, and get better) but now, even box mix loyalists are shocked that my cakes are from scratch. My recipes are very dependable. The association with scratch cakes as being dry and subpar can very well come from bad recipes and/or bad technique. There are awesome recipes out there that can get butchered (dense and dry) if executed poorly. So is the art of scratch baking really at fault for this?
One year, I decided to make my pizza dough and dinner rolls from scratch. I had so many mishaps and threw so many fits in my kitchen until one day it just clicked. Sure a prepackaged dough can produce a tasty pizza or bread dough but I also respect those artisan bakers that have the skill to execute a flawless dough from scratch without the help of chemical emulsifiers.
I also respect the art of decorating, a skill that I do not yet have. I wouldn't dare down play the awesome work I see here on CC simply because I am not good at it. I am practicing, though It would be pretty insulting for someone to say fondant + dye= decorated cake because it depends on the skill level of those hands working with the fondant and dye. Not all decorated cakes are created equal. The ability to take a cake and turn it into a work of art is also a very special skill that not everyone has.
We all have a place here.....
Three years ago, I joined a friend in a cake decorating class on a whim. I really enjoyed it and started playing with it more and more. A year later, I baked cakes for my son's athletic banquet for 400 people. I used a doctored mix and, of course, everyone said they were the best cakes they'd ever eaten. Right after that, I decided to learn to bake from scratch. Believe me, those first cakes were nowhere near as good as the doctored mix cakes. But over time, baking cake after cake, reading book after book and gleaning these forums for information, my skills improved. I made a scratch vanilla butter cake for one of the ladies that so loved my cakes at the banquet. It was the hands down winner over the doctored mix cakes. Now if she had eaten one of my earlier tries, she would have gone away thinking she didn't like scratch cakes as much. But it was a process of the baker (me), not scratch vs. box. I believe it is a skill and I've worked really hard and spent a lot of money trying to improve. I don't think it makes me a snob to be proud of my hard work. But, after all the time/effort/money/failures/frustrations, I must say it's a little disheartening to hear someone say it just dump a bunch of stuff in a bowl.
To the scratch bakers... do you use recipes or come up with your own recipes? Are you able to share some of your recipes? I'm dying to know if there's a secret ingredient that makes a great cake, such as sour cream, yogurt, etc. I was reading Buddy's book and he found that adding his scratch custard to the cake really made a difference. There's so many recipes on the internet, it's hard to know where to start. So I guess my question is.. what is it that makes a great cake?
The_Sugar_Fairy, scratch baking is a learning process. I never baked from a box because it wouldn't give me too many challenges. I cook seriously, and I make everything from scratch, so all I wanted to make the best bread ever and continue with pastries...then I found CC and got into cakes. We all know how that gets. lol
I would say there's not just one secret ingredient that makes a great cake. There's a right way to mix, there's a way to be careful and precise. Ttake notes, read as much as you can. Practice and pay attention to the results...until you get it right.
Do not pick up recipes on the internet that do not come from great sources, from successful people who have perfected the techniques and the art. If a recipe doesn't have a reputable author behind it, I don't go for it. And I'm not talking here about Buddy. I'm talking Nick Malgieri, David Lebovitz, Dorie Greenspan, Julia Child, James Peterson, Shirley Corriher...
I also like baking from Cake Love (Warren Brown) and Sky High (Alisa Huntsman). I think these two books prevented me from making awful scratch cakes at the beginning when I had no experience at all. The recipes just worked all the time.
After a while, you can start substituting ingredients because you'll have the knowledge and the experience and you'll know how each ingredient affects the outcome.
I bake from scratch but have made great tasting doctored mixes Here are two versions of puerto rican rum cake
box doctored
■1 pkg yellow cake mix (if you can find it without pudding in it get it)
■1 (4-serving size) package instant vanilla pudding
■½ cup oil
■½ cup water
■½ cup gold rum
■4 eggs
Ingredients for Glaze
■1 stick butter
■1 cup sugar
■¼ cup water
■¾ cup gold rum or a little more if desired!
Mix and Bake the Cake
■Mix cake mix, pudding, oil, water and rum
■Add eggs
■Use mixer to blend
■Grease bundt pan and line with nuts
■Pour batter into pan, covering nuts
■Bake at 325°F. for 50-60 minutes (until toothpick comes out clean)
■After cake has cooled for a few minutes, turn it out of the pan.
Once you take the cake out of the oven, make the glaze
■Melt butter in saucepan
■Stir in water and sugar
■Boil 5 minutes, stirring constantly
■Remove from heat let it sit for a few minutes to cool
■Stir in rum, slowly- if it bubbles, let the mixture cool before adding more rum
■While to cake is still warm, pour most of the glaze into the bundt pan. (Note: the cake soaks up best if it is still warm)
■Put the cake back into the bundt pan to absorb the glaze
■Pour the remaining glaze onto the bottom of the cake (in the pan)
■Let it soak in the glaze
■Once all of the glaze has been absorbed by the cake, turn the cake out of the pan onto your serving platter and let it cool completely
Scratch
INGREDIENTS
4 cups of self raising flour
4 sticks of unsalted butter
2 cups of sugar
12 eggs ( separate the yolks from the whites)
2 tsp of good vanilla
Simple syrup:
2 cups of water
1 cup of sugar
2 tablespoons of vanilla
2 tablespoons of rum
DIRECTIONS
Add the cold butter in the mixer with the 2 cups of sugar, beat a high speed exactly for 12 minutes.
In the mean time sift the flour twice, separate the eggs and beat the egg whites.
Add the eggs one by one. Beat slowly.
Add the flavor and the flour one cup at the time, at this time slow down the speed. Add the egg whites and incorporate slowly using a wire wisk.
Pour into a 11×3 round mold and cook at 325 for 1 hour
I usually substitute milk where it calls for water in both scratch and box mixes
I don't think it matters unless you are advertising that you bake from scratch and then using a mix. To me a boxed mix is and ingredient that you use to make cake and I don't feel like its cheating to use it any more than I feel like using Satin Ice or Wilton pre-made fondant. I often joke with the friends and family I bake for and tell them "shoot yes, its scratch, I scratched the top of that box right open and mixed it up just for you", of course they already know I bake from a mix with a little extra flavor here and there.
I haven't EVER had anyone complain that "this tastes like a box mix" or "I really wanted it from scratch". I don't have a problem with my cakes going uneaten either. I can bake from scratch, given the time, but cake mixes are easier for me personally and it really doesn't get to be fun until I am slapping the icing on that sucker anyway. My mother, however, makes WONDERFUL scratch cakes and cheesecakes but she is not a decorator in the least bit and I appreciate all the work she puts into her art too.
one of my go to chocolate cakes
Chocolate cake from
All recipes site Ingredients
2 cups all-purpose flour
2 cups white sugar
3/4 cup unsweetened cocoa
2 teaspoons baking soda
1 teaspoon baking powder
1/2 teaspoon salt
2 eggs
1 cup cold brewed coffee
1 cup milk
1/2 cup vegetable oil
2 teaspoons vinegar
Directions
1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Grease and flour a 9x13 inch pan.
2. In a large bowl, combine the flour, sugar, cocoa, baking soda, baking powder and salt. Make a well in the center and pour in the eggs, coffee, milk, oil and vinegar. Mix until smooth, batter will be thin. Pour into prepared pan.
3. Bake in the preheated oven for 35 to 40 minutes, or until a toothpick inserted into the center of the cake comes out clean. Allow to cool.
I add chocolate chips on top and instead of flour for the pan , use ghiradelli chocolate powder, yum
You're welcome. Actually, I don't recommend the Sky High buttercreams. They're made with whipping cream and are not good for what you are used to doing. But the cakes are fine. You know what to do and what you need.
Cake Love uses IMBC, which is OK to leave out. That's all I make.
I don't sell cakes anyway. I just make them for family, and as I said before, I enjoy baking and trying recipes. I also started doing it because my sister wanted to start a business in South America. We don't have mixes in our country, and I'm the one who speaks English, so I had to decipher everything for her, and it all had to be from scratch. She's done it, so now I can relax and continue on my own stuff.
Yes, I don't hear the scratch/not scratch discussion anywhere else but here at CC. Most of the time, I try not to get involved, unless someone asks about something and I can help.
Sorry, I accidently deleted my post... Cake Central wasn't working properly for me yesterday. So I'll post it again...
I was saying thank you to Imagenthatnj for posting all the books/recipe ideas for us. I've seen a couple of the books as my sister-in-law has them. I'm not sure if they're going to work for me though because a lot of the recipes use whipping cream, cream cheese, mousse, etc. I decorate a lot of birthday cakes, wedding cakes, etc. and they need to be out of refrigeration for extended periods (because I spend about 6-10 hours decorating each cake and sometimes the cakes needs to be on display for hours, ex. wedding cakes) so a lot of perishable ingredients aren't the best idea. Also the cake needs to quite dense/firm to hold up under fondant, or they need to be a certain shape (so can't be baked in a bundt pan or loaf pan). I can get a very dense cake and use any pan by using a mix (by omitting half of the oil that it calls for). Therefore, I'm sure that all these scratch cake recipes listed taste amazing, but they probably aren't something I can work with for celebration cakes.
I do feel a bit guilty if I used box mix, only because I love baking from scratch. All my cakes and cupcakes are from scratch, I find box mixes are more crumbly and you can't control the outcome as to how dense or light you want it.
I don't judge though. I don't really care.
I am more into flavours than cake decor, which I'm trying to change.
The_Sugar_Fairy, I did get to see your post and I answered, lol. And then I get to see it again. CC is such a crazy place with posts. Weird that my answer appears before your post.
I don't hesitate to use box cake mixes for the generic type flavors. For my specialty Blackberry Jam Spice cake, it is from scratch. I do this for the same reason I use pre made fondant, and that is consistency. I know that the product I give my customers is what they have found appealing in other works I have done.
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