Ewwww! drives me nuts when people "axe" me about an "ideal" they have! 
thanks for the great tips on "it's"! Will try to keep "it's a contraction" in my head from now on. PLEASE point it out to me if anyone sees it used incorrectly in a post. I REALLY want to get this right!
This may be an Indiana Hoosier thing, but in my small hometown, folks add "R's" to their words:
Wash is pronounced warsh.
Toilet is pronounced torlet.
Washington is Warshington.
when we moved to Indianapolis, it was very noticeable that words weren't pronounced that way and even hubby, who hates to change anything!, changed how he pronounced it. (whew!)
but we do have some true "Hoosierisms" here. The city of Lafayette is pronounced, not wth 3 syllable, like the french general, but with 2 syllable .. "La-fyet". The city of Hobart, which looks like it's pronounced "HO-bart" is pronounced "Ho-bert".
And cantaloupe is called "mush melon". 
So many other serious things to worry about, like the level of unemployment, the warssssss, kids being abused, hunger, the AIDS epidemic and theft on the rise. Taxes, the list goes on and on. It is a disgrace that we can find time in the 24 hours that a day allow us to allow such minor insignificant things to be an issue.
Maybe it's not such a big deal on a cake forum BUT, if intelligent human beings cannot communicate in a proper manner it can indeed become a major and very significant issue!
Someone may be extremely intelligent but misspelled words, poor sentence structure and grammatical errors only point to an impression of ignorance and any point to be made--no matter how intelligent-- is lost.
(Let me point out that I am referring to people raised and educated in this country who should know better).
Read letters from a hundred plus years ago. People considered from very humble backgrounds used proper grammar and had a formality of speech that gave no indication of their status. Children were taught penmanship and how to use the beauty and power of words.
Can you imagine Abraham Lincoln penning the Gettysburg address on an iPad using text speech today?
Marie Antoinette once said 'Let them eat cake!' She was misunderstood and look what happened to her! So yeah, words and how we use them are pretty significant.
Unemployment, as you mentioned, is a major concern these days, but consider this...having been in a position to hire people before, do you think I ever hired someone who couldn't communicate properly? Guess what, other employers won't either! So gee, sounds to me that someone who knew the basics would have an advantage in this tight job market over someone who didn't bother to learn because of all those 'more important issues' to worry about!
Enough said. Back to cake.
So many other serious things to worry about, like the level of unemployment, the warssssss, kids being abused, hunger, the AIDS epidemic and theft on the rise. Taxes, the list goes on and on. It is a disgrace that we can find time in the 24 hours that a day allow us to allow such minor insignificant things to be an issue.
Maybe it's not such a big deal on a cake forum BUT, if intelligent human beings cannot communicate in a proper manner it can indeed become a major and very significant issue!
Someone may be extremely intelligent but misspelled words, poor sentence structure and grammatical errors only point to an impression of ignorance and any point to be made--no matter how intelligent-- is lost.
(Let me point out that I am referring to people raised and educated in this country who should know better).
Read letters from a hundred plus years ago. People considered from very humble backgrounds used proper grammar and had a formality of speech that gave no indication of their status. Children were taught penmanship and how to use the beauty and power of words.
Can you imagine Abraham Lincoln penning the Gettysburg address on an iPad using text speech today?
Marie Antoinette once said 'Let them eat cake!' She was misunderstood and look what happened to her! So yeah, words and how we use them are pretty significant.
Unemployment, as you mentioned, is a major concern these days, but consider this...having been in a position to hire people before, do you think I ever hired someone who couldn't communicate properly? Guess what, other employers won't either! So gee, sounds to me that someone who knew the basics would have an advantage in this tight job market over someone who didn't bother to learn because of all those 'more important issues' to worry about!
Enough said. Back to cake.
I bow to thee. 
Boy I wish there were a little more grace when it came to this. This is a very judgmental forum.
With all due respect, Bettyviolet, I wouldn't say this thread is judgmental at all. No one, that I can see, has singled out any one group of people and pointed fingers at them, portraying themselves as somehow superior. I think what people are doing, as is done in many other threads, on other topics, is vent. Surely we all need to do that from time to time. Hope you take this post in the spirit in which it was meant.
So many other serious things to worry about, like the level of unemployment, the warssssss, kids being abused, hunger, the AIDS epidemic and theft on the rise. Taxes, the list goes on and on. It is a disgrace that we can find time in the 24 hours that a day allow us to allow such minor insignificant things to be an issue.
The "it's ridiculous of you to waste time on this when there are so many important things in the world" argument always drives me nuts because I believe that well balanced people are those who spend time thinking and talking about a whole range of things, from serious world issues to frivolous chatter to healthy venting and kvetching, meaning people who can't find time in their 24 hours for this, and only think about weighty matters are people I wonder about and avoid as NOTHING in life is insignificant because it's all part of the only life you get.
And that, my friends is my illustration of a run on sentence, which I also hate. 
So many other serious things to worry about, like the level of unemployment, the warssssss, kids being abused, hunger, the AIDS epidemic and theft on the rise. Taxes, the list goes on and on. It is a disgrace that we can find time in the 24 hours that a day allow us to allow such minor insignificant things to be an issue.
And that, my friends is my illustration of a run on sentence, which I also hate.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
So many other serious things to worry about, like the level of unemployment, the warssssss, kids being abused, hunger, the AIDS epidemic and theft on the rise. Taxes, the list goes on and on. It is a disgrace that we can find time in the 24 hours that a day allow us to allow such minor insignificant things to be an issue.
Of course there are more important things to worry about (though I do think that proper grammar usage is important). But if I spent all 24 hours of my day stressing over wars, unemployment, AIDS, etc., I'd go insane. This thread is not intended to be judgmental or offensive; rather, it is a light-hearted discussion -- a way of relieving some of the stress of real life.
Here's one I'm going to have to work on: I always put two spaces between sentences, as I was taught in school. However, I recently learned that one space is correct, though two is still considered acceptable by some. Here's an article with more information, in case you're interested: http://www.slate.com/id/2281146/pagenum/all/
Here's one I'm going to have to work on: I always put two spaces between sentences, as I was taught in school.
I was also taught this. But evidently you and I learned it in "Typing Class" where we learned to type on a typewriter. the one-space rule came into existence with word processing and computers. My understanding is it had something to do with documents written with right justification and two spaces added too much dead space when the computer did the justification process.
(I somehow manage to find a way to practice giving history lessons, don't I? I guess it means I am passionate about history ..... or just old enough to have lived thru it! )
I learned to type on a manual typewriter as well so 2 spaces behind a period is forever ingrained into my fast flying fingers. I can't seem to break that habit! At least that "mistake" isn't obtrusive enough to deem me uneducated or too lazy to correct myself. I hope.
Indydebi, the adding the extra r in certain words made me laugh because my mother always adds that r at the end and it makes her sound so southern to me . Window is winder and pizza is pizzer. She argues that she doesn't say it that way.
Thanks for this thread, ladies and gentlemen, I feel better knowing there are other grammar nazis out there who can't help but proofread while reading every thing (yet still manage to miss my own typos occasionally.)
There you go artscallion, another run on sentence to keep you company. 
Window is winder and pizza is pizzer.
Oh lordy! Add "Maters" and "Taters" to the list as words that irritate me. I will be at a flea market and see a great wooden storage item to hold potatoes .... and the woodworker decides to ruin it by carving the word "Taters" in the lid. I am literate. I can read. I can properly pronounce the word "potatoes".
I am a trained adult literacy instructor and I know how illiteracy hinders income and job availability, and just functioning in society in general. So things that promote illiteracy is #1 on my list. I refuse to do business with a company that promotes illiteracy (i.e. "Kathy's Kake Klub" type of things).
It bothers me when words are mispronounced.
Across pronounced 'acrost'
height pronounced 'heigth' (the ending is 'ht' not 'th'!)
Striped pronounced 'stripe-ed'
Creek pronounced 'crick'
Creek pronounced 'crick'
I grew up being taught they're two different things. A crick is smaller than a creek, which is smaller than a stream, which is smaller than a river!
But .... I went to Dictionary.com to see if its a real word or just a regional verbage. Turns out its a real word .... but regional!
crick 2 (krɪk)
n
( US ), ( Canadian ) a dialect word for creek
Learn something new on this site everyday!
[/quote]
I refuse to do business with a company that promotes illiteracy (i.e. "Kathy's Kake Klub" type of things).[/quote]
I agree. I know they're trying to be cute, but it irks me.
I know a lady who mispronounces a lot of words. She says "tex" instead of "text" and "contex" instead of "context". The homeschooling mom in me cringes hoping that my kids won't pick it up.
Normally I don't care if people mispell a word here and there. If a person writes a post in all text-speak, that's just lazy.
[quote="indydebi"][quote=But .... I went to Dictionary.com to see if its a real word or just a regional verbage. Turns out its a real word .... but regional!
[quote]
Indydebi - I am only posting this because you specifically asked for this type of help! 
Your last post would have been the time to use "it's" instead of "its." I think someone else suggested this tip, but one of the easiest ways to choose the right option is to remember that the apostrophe means there is a letter missing and you can test if the sentence makes sense with the added letter. In your example "...to see if IT IS a real word..." and "Turns out IT IS a real word" is the way to go.
To everyone else - I love this post and knowing there are other "grammar police" folks out there. I have been known to tell a store their signage is wrong, such as the pet shop "Puppy's and More" that I have to walk past each day on the way to work. P.S. My "real" job is in publishing where I am constantly copy editing academic/medical articles so I cannot escape.
I should also add that some people, even if you try to help them, are just stuck in their ways and cannot break habits. My dear best friend, although she knows it is not correct, will use/write words such as "supposively" (supposedly) and "debit" (in place of the word debt).
I have been known to tell a store their signage is wrong, such as the pet shop "Puppy's and More" that I have to walk past each day on the way to work.
Yes! It's plural "puppies", not possessive!
I notice the signage on storefronts that sell "CD's"... it's suppose to be plural CDs!
Also, when referring to the '80s (for example), and it's written like this: 80's. You wouldn't write "eightie's", it's "eighties", so the apostrophe goes in front because it's short for 1980s.
I've contacted Wilton about misspelling separator plates as "seperator"... it was well-received and corrected. I received a nice "thank you" as well. Too bad everyone isn't so receptive when they get free proofreading help... I guess they'd rather come across as unprofessional and uneducated.
Have you heard about the men who were fined and banned from all national parks after correcting a typo on a sign in the Grand Canyon? Here's their story: http://greattypohunt.com/?page_id=23
*Edited to remove the extra space between my sentences...old habits are hard to break!
LOL @ Jess155. IDK wat u mean. HAHAHA! jk
Okay, okay. I'll stop.
I might be considered the enemy after this post - but what the heck!
This is my thing. Many factors come to play when you look at the English language. That's what makes it the hardest of all to learn. A lot of us can speak, but, many of us don't know English. And, that is what contributes to the malapropism, bad usage of punctuations and bad sentence structure.
I studied under the British system, and, a lot of stuff I had to adapt to when I moved to the USA, like in my country it is 'Programme' in the USA it is 'Program'- and a lot of other words.
Also some people when they translate from 'their' language to english they write it as it is - Je t'aime - I you like! But, it is actually I like you.
Now on the another note. Being such the diverse and multi-cultural 'grown-up' crowd that we are, I think there are better ways to address that that a post. People get judged in life based on their financial status, educational achievements, racial profile, and now for the way they spell/ talk? What the hell is this Great Land of Ours becoming.
So many other serious things to worry about, like the level of unemployment, the warssssss, kids being abused, hunger, the AIDS epidemic and theft on the rise. Taxes, the list goes on and on. It is a disgrace that we can find time in the 24 hours that a day allow us to allow such minor insignificant things to be an issue.
Anyway, I wish all the best! Be good, Be strong, Be greatful and be wise.
If your left hand offend your right hand -CUT IT OFF! If the way people type offend you, do not read the boards.
Kk
The King Canute of Spelling?
(From The Pegasus NLP Newsletter 22 August 2000)
King Canute is reputed to have had his throne placed on the beach so he could sit and command the tide not to come in. It did, of course, and he and his throne began to get wet.
The story is often use as an example of somebody trying to do the impossible. It's usually wrongly quoted, incidentally.
In some respects my attempts to maintain a distinction between English and American is as doomed to failure. And provokes occasional comments.
The latest of these came after yesterday's article on Crazy Thinking. It was a very pleasant and courteous email and included a request that I use a spell-checker! I do use one and it checks against the commonly accepted English as used in England.
Because of the amount of American-produced software, incorporating American spell-checkers, it is becoming almost the norm to spell in American.
Microsoft has played no small part in this. Their software, even when sold in the UK and Ireland, features spell-checkers which seem to have a habit of reverting their default to American even when set to what they call English (UK).
There is a further challenge. A lot of English software now features American spelling, too. Either because it is aimed at the American, and much larger, market or because the people who wrote the software have been using American spell-checkers for so long that they can no longer spell in English.
My sister visited recently and on reading something I had written pointed out that I had incorrectly spelt 'programme'. In her mind it should be spelt 'program'. Where she works computers are workhorses and the staff are not interested in tweaking and customising(!) the programmes. Subtleties like changing the defaults are ignored. As a result she and her colleagues have been using American spell-checkers for so long they think the American way is correct for this part of the world (England and Ireland)!
So, really, a chap has to take a stand somewhere, doesn't he!
I've had a look through some recent newsletters and switched between American and English spellings to get a list of some common differences between the two languages (as they are rapidly becoming!) I then used an English dictionary a real old-fashioned paper one rather than a software one, just in case And I came up with the following:
English Spelling American Spelling
recognise recognize (sometimes Eng. too)
behaviour behavior
recognising recognizing (sometimes Eng. too)
paralyse paralyze
generalisations generalizations (sometimes Eng. too)
labelling labeling
analyse analyze
programme program
hypoglycaemia hypoglycemia
travelling traveling
revitalise revitalize (sometimes Eng. too)
practise (the verb) practice (Am. both
verb and noun!)
apologising apologizing (sometimes Eng. too)
defence defense
channelled chanelled
finalised finalized (sometimes Eng. too)
Now for a lovely one
English American
fulfil fulfill
fulfilling fulfiling
fulfilment fulfillment
fulfiller fulfiler
So we sometimes have two 'l's' in English and one in American...
But, other times, we have one in English and two in American. Got it? Easy isn't it!
All of which goes to show what a pointless exercise it is becoming to try and get it 'right'!
English is a living and dynamic language and is becoming the standard on the Web. And there are more Americans using the Web than English, more American products available, and more non-English speakers using American products to learn English.
English as some of us Europeans have known it may not have long to go. Yet I'm sitting here in my chair ranting at the world to stop and do it my way. Rather like King Canute is supposed to have been doing. And as long as I, and others, don't take it too seriously it's a harmless little exercise.
It's like a lot of things in life. As long as we do not lose sight of the big picture that's fine. The big picture is what is really important to me or you at any moment. The big picture of the web site and of the newsletter is to make available a few ideas, tips, and insights that I have come across and have found helpful for myself and when coaching others.
(So what about old Canute? Well, he was not trying to stop the tide from coming in. He was a lot wiser than that. He wanted to demonstrate to his over-demanding subjects that even the king was not omnipotent. That's what he intended. But along the way, over the centuries, people forgot what his big picture was they missed his point.)
superwawa, thanks so much for noticing the error. I'm working on it ... I really am!
warchild, what a great story of history! to add to that, what I was taught is that Noah Webster ("Webster's Dictionary") decided to Americanize the language. the colonies had separated themselves from England in the Revoluntionary War and Webster began separating the "american" language from the "english" language. If the English version had, for example, 2 L's, he used one and vice-versa.
It was like the teenager, who had tasted his first bite of freedom, deciding to be the opposite of everything his parents had stood for!
Love this thread!
The latest one that's really bugging me is flowerless, instead of flourless. My bakery makes flourless cookies and when people order them via e-mail or, unfortunately, blog about us online and misspell this word it makes me crazy. Flowerless means there are no daisies in your garden!
I also have inlaws and other family members that have horrible grammar I cannot correct so it makes me crazy. The biggest laughs have come from reviewing my mother-in-law's recipes. She spells lasagna and lazanya. ARGH!!!!!
(Okay, I'm very, very guilty of the excessive exclamation points and I always double space after each sentence.)
Love this thread!
The latest one that's really bugging me is flowerless, instead of flourless. My bakery makes flourless cookies and when people order them via e-mail or, unfortunately, blog about us online and misspell this word it makes me crazy. Flowerless means there are no daisies in your garden!
I also have inlaws and other family members that have horrible grammar I cannot correct so it makes me crazy. The biggest laughs have come from reviewing my mother-in-law's recipes. She spells lasagna and lazanya. ARGH!!!!!
(Okay, I'm very, very guilty of the excessive exclamation points and I always double space after each sentence.)
flour
Word History
Date of Origin 13th c.
Etymologically, flour is the same word as flower. It originally meant the flower, or finest part, of ground grain, and hence eventually just ground (and more or less sifted) grain. The distinction in spelling between flour and flower did not emerge until the late 18th century, and the spelling flower for flour persisted into the early 19th century.
flower
Word History
Date of Origin 13th c.
The Old English word for flower was blôstm, which is ultimately related to flower. Both come from Indo-European *bhlô-, which probably originally meant swell, and also gave English bloom, blade, and the now archaic blow come into flower. Its Latin descendant was flôs, whose stem form flôr- passed via Old French flour and Anglo-Norman flur into English, where it gradually replaced blossom as the main word for flower.
Close English relatives include floral, florid (17th c.) (from Latin flôridus), florin, florist (17th c.) (an English coinage), flour, and flourish.
Mispell or Misspell?
The English spelling system is the most inconsistent, illogical and often plain barmy alphabetic spelling system in the world.
Mispell or Misspell?
By James Essinger
Published: May 5 2006 17:29 | Last updated: May 5 2006 17:29
http://www.antimoon.com/forum/t3030.htm
Whew! Last post ended my following this thread... eyes glazed over after "The English spelling system is the most inconsistent, illogical and often plain barmy alphabetic spelling system in the world." ... "barmy" is a word?
It's been fun, but cake is calling.
superwawa, thanks so much for noticing the error. I'm working on it ... I really am!
warchild, what a great story of history! to add to that, what I was taught is that Noah Webster ("Webster's Dictionary") decided to Americanize the language. the colonies had separated themselves from England in the Revoluntionary War and Webster began separating the "american" language from the "english" language. If the English version had, for example, 2 L's, he used one and vice-versa.
It was like the teenager, who had tasted his first bite of freedom, deciding to be the opposite of everything his parents had stood for!
You're welcome!
I think old Noah Webster was being a bit too stubborn! If he'd left the spelling as it was, there'd be less arguments/discussions on public forums on how to spell & type correctly!
I'm Brit born, Canada raised. I was taught English spelling & English penmenship (I did lousy on penmenship) It wasn't until computers that my English spelling started to become a problem. like Connolly, I too get frustrated with spell-check as it only wants to recognize American spelling. The word color, I spell colour. Ditto for neighbor. I know it as neighbour. Center I know as Centre. Its trivial I know, but I find myself correcting words that are not incorrect so that others will find my spelling of words correct! 
Edited to add. Even though I learned English spelling, I'm not always the greatest speller. So, if you see any spelling errors, please ignore my spelling!
Sounds like me and you are on the same plain about right grammer!
actually, it is "you and I" not me and you
And it's plane, not plain.
I think it's intentional
Do you know how hard I worked to try to make a joke? My kids will tell you, I always correct them if I hear them use improper grammar . They also get a discourse during the NEWS, and other types of public address.
I didn't follow this thread closely, as I am now a proud first-time grandmother! Watch out, next generation!!
(Message edited to correct a phrase!)
I remember being taught about 'are' and 'our' in 5th grade. That is one that you not only see written or typed incorrectly, but a lot of people mix them up when they're speaking. It completely drives me nuts!
Oh, and I've always put two spaces between sentences. I was taught to do it that way all through school, and I've only been out of school for about 10 years. I can't imagine the rules of spacing have changed in 10 years. Am I that old?!
I was taught to use two spaces between sentences, too, and I've only been out of school 12 years. I think if anyone had bothered to check, they would have found that one space was preferred even back then. However, since our teachers learned to type on typewriters instead of computers, they used two spaces and passed that on to us. (And most of us will pass that on to our children, too!)
From what I've read, it seems as though the only ones who really care about the number of spaces between sentences are typographers. As far as grammar issues to worry about, I think this is one of the least important; I won't think less of any of you for using an extra space. Especially because every time I started a new sentence in this post, I had to go back and erase the extra space!
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