I'm probably going to regret posting this because I don't want to start a war or offend anyone... and I know this will be unpopular here, BUT... why intentionally mislead your customers on what you are actually presenting to them? If your cake was baked from a box then you should answer a yes or a no to that question, not "JAZZ HANDS!"
I just feel that If a customer asks you a direct question you are only doing yourself and others that DO bake from scratch a disservice. It's why people question out prices, our worth and our integrity. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with it... until you try to hide it.
I seriously mean no offense to any individual decorator, and I'm sure your time and abilities are worth every penny, I'm just sharing my opinion and hope to present a different side of the argument in the day and age of Wikileaks.
No offense taken. Why would anyone be offended over an opinion?
But in my opinion, how I make something is no one's business. Now, if they ask if I can make a certain allergy-free cake or if they are vegan or gluten-free or an old-fashioned granola head, we can discuss that... but they don't need to know how I make things. If they have these limitations, I am always honest with them and tell them my cakes are not for them (I do this often). Bottom line, if they like my product, yeah, if not - find another baker.
IMO - and it's just MY opinion, people who are health-conscience (sp?) to that degree that everything has to organic or natural or whatever, shouldn't be eating cake to begin with.
Some are scratch and some are not - I'm very upfront about that. I just don't tell them which is which. Give me your business or don't. I'm actually very cool about it either way.
If you are asked a direct question and you don't answer directly, you have answered the question. And skirting the issue makes you look dishonest. As to whether it is the customers' business to know what is in the cake, of course it is their business... they are purchasing it and consuming it.
Just remember, you are probably not the only baker being interviewed. Not everyone will play word games, and again, you will look bad. And your competition knows who bakes scratch and who bakes box and has probably already shared that information with the customer.
If you are asked a direct question and you don't answer directly, you have answered the question. And skirting the issue makes you look dishonest. As to whether it is the customers' business to know what is in the cake, of course it is their business... they are purchasing it and consuming it.
Just remember, you are probably not the only baker being interviewed. Not everyone will play word games, and again, you will look bad. And your competition knows who bakes scratch and who bakes box and has probably already shared that information with the customer.
I agree 100%. All my cakes go out with a list of ingredients contained in the cake including those found in the fondant, ganache, GP and buttercream. Because I am all for disclosure and consumer rights. I hate 'double talk' of any kind, and if a salesperson treated me like that, then I'd be insulted and take my business elsewhere. Just MHO.
IMO - and it's just MY opinion, people who are health-conscience (sp?) to that degree that everything has to organic or natural or whatever, shouldn't be eating cake to begin with.
That's kind of an odd statement - just because some people don't want to eat McDonalds doesn't mean they aren't allowed to eat hamburgers and french fries. They just prefer to not eat genetically modified hamburger and french fries that have been scientifically proven to cause tumors in lab rats among a whole host of other health related issues. Just saying, younger generations read the labels, care about what they eat, and make their purchases accordingly. If this hasn't started happening in your area, it will.
Most of us are in the custom cake business, the people that come to us are getting a custom dessert that they probably don't get frequently. Maybe this is their one-time-a-year indulgence, or maybe it's their once-in-a-lifetime wedding cake. If they want a scratch cake, or organic, or granola-crunchy, it's their right to get one, or at least be informed of the product they choose to purchase if it is their desire to know.
So I totally don't agree with you, if a customer asks we have just as much responsibility to tell them what we put in our cakes as that grocery store with the legally required ingredient label. Saying "it's none of their business" and deflecting is kind of an astounding business strategy.
I agree that it's a yes or no question if someone asks if you use mixes. You can eleborate on that if you doctor them up, or if some of your recipes are scratch and some aren't, but if I ask someone a question and they dance around the answer then I have my answer.
And they don't get extra credit for doing the dance.
I have plenty of clients come to me who complain that other bakers did the "Well if you like it why does it matter" dodge when they asked the scratch question. It does irritate people to get a non-answer to a direct question, even if they're polite and smile at your response at the time.
I am a baker who uses both scratch and doctored box mix depending on what flavor combination is wanted. No one has ever asked what I use to bake their creation. I would answer them honestly about what THEIR particular cake is. I don't have an issue on scratch vs box it's whatever the baker is comfortable with. My only issue is this:
Yummytipsycakes is making a LIQUOR CUSTOM CAKE! Try buying that at a grocery store chain or supercenter or local bakeshop. There is no way that customer would find that cake anywhere. IT IS LIQUOR INFUSED .
The customer bought the cake, consumed it, AND agreed that it was good with the provider. It's almost like it was an afterthought that it was a box cake. really? No box cake I know comes with liquor.
Be polite but firm and not offer a refund unless the cake is returned and only then offer a discount on a future cake. Trust me, this won't make a difference in your business - if you have satisfied repeat customers they outweigh a bad apple 10 to one!
Oh yeah, I totally agree that in this situation the client deosn't need a refund unless it's just for goodwill. If she didn't ask beforehand then it shouldn't have been an issue about whether she wanted scratch or mix. If she has asked and gotten an answer that implied it was scratch, then it turned out to be a mix, that would be a different story. It sounds like she just assumed that every baker knows how to bake from scratch, and when she found out that people use mixes, she felt stupid so she wanted a refund for that. Not a good reason for a refund IMO.
So I totally don't agree with you, if a customer asks we have just as much responsibility to tell them what we put in our cakes as that grocery store with the legally required ingredient label. Saying "it's none of their business" and deflecting is kind of an astounding business strategy.
And as I've already said several times, if asked, we will discuss ingredients. if they ask if there is anything preservatives, dyes, yada yada.. the answer is yes if it's true for that particular cake.
And I firmly believe in the once a year indulgence - I firmly believe in eating well all year round so on that rare occasion I can eat whatever the heck I want.... but then I don't ask how it's made. I accept that it's bad for me just enjoy it.
People are way too uptight and that's not who I cater too. I do have some pretty high dollar repeat customers. But not uptight customers. I honestly don't have the patience for those people. My shortcoming, I know. But I own that shortcoming and embrace it and make no apologies.
So I totally don't agree with you, if a customer asks we have just as much responsibility to tell them what we put in our cakes as that grocery store with the legally required ingredient label. Saying "it's none of their business" and deflecting is kind of an astounding business strategy.
And as I've already said several times, if asked, we will discuss ingredients. if they ask if there is anything preservatives, dyes, yada yada.. the answer is yes if it's true for that particular cake.
And I firmly believe in the once a year indulgence - I firmly believe in eating well all year round so on that rare occasion I can eat whatever the heck I want.... but then I don't ask how it's made. I accept that it's bad for me just enjoy it.
People are way too uptight and that's not who I cater too. I do have some pretty high dollar repeat customers. But not uptight customers. I honestly don't have the patience for those people. My shortcoming, I know. But I own that shortcoming and embrace it and make no apologies.
No, you said "it's none of their business what I put in my cakes". How you live your life is your business. The product you are trying to sell IS everyone else's. It's OK if you choose to not be informed (or care about it either way), but calling people "uptight" for being educated and care about the crap you put in your cake? Purposefully removing the customer's ability to make an informed decision because you have chosen to lie when asked a direct question? 
Look, I know lots of bakers do it, and it seems to be working out for you, but...
PSA - Cake Central is a massive website. You do know that I, as a potential customer, could possibly see this thread when I Google you since you've linked this user name to your business, right? Internet is forever.
Many of my cakes are ifused with liquor... GrandMarnier, Bailey's, Southern Comfort, Henessey, Advocat, Godiva, Kahlua, Frangelico, Knob Creek, Makers Mark, Jameson... and they are all baked from scratch. So it may not be true that she was the only game in town.
I have said this before... look at the larger cities where trends start. Baking is becoming a boutique business. People are becoming more informed an are demanding more for their dollar. The competion is only going to get tougher. We all need to be constantly improving our skills. What works today may not work in the near future. Six months ago, there were no scratch bakers in our area. Now there are three. We got our business from someone. As I used to tell clients in my marketing company, "Just because you decided to open a plumbing (example) business, does not mean that there are now more leaky faucets. You have to take business from someone else." The same goes with baked goods. There are no more weddings or birthdays, just more people supplying the goods.
I don't think being deceptive or flat-out lying to a customer about your ingredients is right, obviously, but I don't see why it should matter that much whether it's from scratch or from a mix. If someone were to ask me, point blank, is this a cake mix? I would tell them whether it was or not, adding the fact that it has been doctored and adjusted. But I really don't think the majority of people care, as long as it tastes good. I think the reason some bakers might be afraid to admit that they use mixes is because there IS a stigma about it, but I really don't understand WHY there is a stigma.
No, you said "it's none of their business what I put in my cakes". How you live your life is your business.
Correct - it's none of their business. If they ask about certain ingredients, I will be more than happy to discuss. But I'm not disclosing my recipes. Do you ever watch "Unwrapped?" They are always stating "secret ingredients added." They don't give out their recipes either. And don't even go into how it's on the the wrapper - you know exactly what I mean.
because you have chosen to lie when asked a direct question?
Just exactly where did I imply I lie? That, my friend, is direct attack of character and completely uncalled for. I don't LIE. I said, over and over and over, if they ask about ingredients I tell them. How is that lying? If the customer tells me they do not want a cake made from a mix, then I tell them my cakes are not for them... I remember stating that also. How is that lying? If the customer states I don't want a cake with artificial preservatives.. again, I tell them my cakes are not for them... That is all the same - not revealing my recipes but being very honest that they do not want to buy my cake. How is this lying?
Before you call someone a liar - have your facts very straight.
PSA - Cake Central is a massive website. You do know that I, as a potential customer, could possibly see this thread when I Google you since you've linked this user name to your business, right? Internet is forever.
Nope - this person does not want to buy from me and I don't want to sell to them. Keeps them from wasting a phone call and both our time, huh?
And I do consider the person who one day a year worries about such things as uptight. Not nearly as harmful as falsely, bold face attacking someone's character by calling them a liar.
I'm actually one of the most honest people you will ever meet. I just won't reveal my recipes to customers. This does not make me a liar or deceiver in anyway. Get a grip.
tryingcake - there is a difference between revealing your recipes and listing ingredients. I don't know where you live and what the laws presiding over your business are, but where I am we are required by law to state all ingredients in any product we sell. Even those in premade, premix elements. So when I use Satin Ice or Pettinice (or a combination of both!) I need to write down every single element in those products and add it to my list in descending weight order. I do not reveal my recipes this way, I am simply disclosing the ingredients so that the customer can make an informed choice, which is a basic right, IMO.
Even before this became the standard, I was giving out ingredient lists to my clients so that if they had guests at an event they could quickly check whether their food intolerance or allergy might be affected by eating my cake. Having seen a child almost die from anaphylactic shock due to ingesting undeclared peanut oil ata cafe once confirmed my belief its the right thing to do. I think it becomes ALL about the client, and providing accurate declarations of ingredients.
Whether or not this pertains to your business atm is a moot point. Eventually everyone selling food that they have prepared will need to comply with Food Safety HACCP practices, and this includes declaring ingredients.
yep, where i am you haev to list everything. So my chocoalte suckers say "made with milk chocolate may conatin/com in contactwith nuts...... Same for pixie sticks "contain sugar and flavor"
Evoir, as I said, if asked I tell. No, it's not on the box and I pass every inspection.
I have no issue with anything you said, and when I'm required to do so I will list every last ingredient. I answer all questions honestly, even when saying that's all you need to know. Obviously, if someone presses further then that's a whole new discussion. But I'm only saying that quip to someone who is standing there already eating my cake. It has never once lost me a sale. Not once.
The OP asked a question, I gave my opinion and was eventually called a liar over it. I have great issue with an opinion being wrong (try to find one post on here where I told someone there opinion was wrong - you can't do it! - I've said I have different results with discussions based on techniques - but no one's opinion is ever wrong) and being called a liar when I obviously was not is always an issue.
I tell my customers there are three scratch bakers in town... A, B, and me. Don't assume that people don't already know that the cake is from a box. And don't assume that the ones who didn't buy weren't just mad that they didn't get a straight answer.
Tryingcake, you may not be lying, but you are being deceptive, and that just works against you. People aren't stupid, and they do not like being deceived, and they do know. If you are ashamed of the box, or more likely, trying to pass your cakes off as scratch, that is wrong on both sides. There is nothing wrong with box baking, but you need to stress why you chose the box for that flavor and what advantages it has. And to try to pass your box cakes off as scratch is like lying about a college degree. Eventually you will come across someone who will call your bluff. Several bakers in my area claim they bake from scratch and they blatantly don't. I will tell the truth if a business is lying. But a business claiming delicious, moist, fresh cake is being honest about their box cake.
Many bakers who start with a box are missing the opportunity to sell their style of baking rather than hide it or be ashamed of it. A box mix will always give the same great results, they are sturdy, but retain plenty of moisture. They can come in an endless variety of flavors (each scratch cake must be developed individually), they remain fresh for a week, hold up in less than perfect climate conditions, and many people have grown up with box cake being the only flavor they know... so a guaranteed crowd pleaser. And the price is less compared to an artisan cake, so more budget-friendly. Obviously, I could sell a box cake as well as scratch, but I have chosen to have an artisan bakery.
No matter what business you are in, you must believe in it to sell it, or you will not be convincing. And don't forget you have competitors selling against you, and in this business, even more competitors in the future.
No offense taken. Why would anyone be offended over an opinion?
But in my opinion, how I make something is no one's business. Now, if they ask if I can make a certain allergy-free cake or if they are vegan or gluten-free or an old-fashioned granola head, we can discuss that... but they don't need to know how I make things. If they have these limitations, I am always honest with them and tell them my cakes are not for them (I do this often). Bottom line, if they like my product, yeah, if not - find another baker.
IMO - and it's just MY opinion, people who are health-conscience (sp?) to that degree that everything has to organic or natural or whatever, shouldn't be eating cake to begin with.
Some are scratch and some are not - I'm very upfront about that. I just don't tell them which is which. Give me your business or don't. I'm actually very cool about it either way.
BRAVO!! (clapping!) 
Thank you very much! I hear all this junk about scratch "vs" mix and artificial "vs" natural and organic "vs" ..whatever, not organic. IT IS CAKE PEOPLE, if it is not loaded with sugar, you aren't doing it right!
No offense taken. Why would anyone be offended over an opinion?
But in my opinion, how I make something is no one's business. Now, if they ask if I can make a certain allergy-free cake or if they are vegan or gluten-free or an old-fashioned granola head, we can discuss that... but they don't need to know how I make things. If they have these limitations, I am always honest with them and tell them my cakes are not for them (I do this often). Bottom line, if they like my product, yeah, if not - find another baker.
IMO - and it's just MY opinion, people who are health-conscience (sp?) to that degree that everything has to organic or natural or whatever, shouldn't be eating cake to begin with.
Some are scratch and some are not - I'm very upfront about that. I just don't tell them which is which. Give me your business or don't. I'm actually very cool about it either way.
BRAVO!! (clapping!)
Thank you very much! I hear all this junk about scratch "vs" mix and artificial "vs" natural and organic "vs" ..whatever, not organic. IT IS CAKE PEOPLE, if it is not loaded with sugar, you aren't doing it right!
Organic just refers to a lack of pesticides, not "fat free." Eating healthy doesn't mean that you can't have a treat. You shouldn't eat the whole cake, but a piece every now and then isn't a big deal.
Exactly. I make my own bread from scratch because I don't like all the additives in other bread. Calories do not factor into it at all. On the same note I do use a doctored cake mix, because I haven't tried a scratch one yet, but am excited to try it.
There is nothing wrong with eating organic, or scratch, or if you prefer the prepared mixes. Do what works for you and be proud of it for whatever reason.
Correct - it's none of their business. If they ask about certain ingredients, I will be more than happy to discuss. But I'm not disclosing my recipes. Do you ever watch "Unwrapped?" They are always stating "secret ingredients added." They don't give out their recipes either. And don't even go into how it's on the the wrapper - you know exactly what I mean.
Just exactly where did I imply I lie?
Wow I didn't realize this thread was still going, and didn't see this response.
I'm only posting for posterity's sake, this topic comes up a LOT so I want to make clear for others that might read this where I am coming from.
Everyone has their own way of doing stuff, obviously, but this made me LOL... you mean you are worried people are gonna find out that you use the WASC recipe that almost 9,000 people have bookmarked on this site? Comparing yourself to Marie Calenders and Willy Wonka on Unwrapped? I wasn't aware that they create their tasty confections starting with Betty Crocker. Really, not even the people that I consult on my scratch cakes believe I invented the cake. I don't suspect your customers think that of you either regardless if you tell them it's from a box or not. Calling a box mix that you add stuff to your "secret ingredient" and worried that they are gonna steal it is taking yourself way too seriously.
And sorry, but from Merrriam-Webster:
Definition of LIE
intransitive verb
1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2: to create a false or misleading impression
I apologize that you felt I was attacking your character based on the posts you've made here, but what YOU posted falls into the above definition of the word you took offense to. Maybe what you typed is not what you really do, or it's not that bad, or you used the wrong words, or you really don't think you have lost a customer over the presentation of your product, or you don't care because those people aren't your type of customer... but how do you know?
I'm going to paraphrase a quote from one of my favorite business marketing professors from college: "Negative opinions of your business are like cockroaches - for every one you hear there are 1000's you never will. So put your personal feelings aside, be thankful you heard it at all, take it seriously, and try and identify what you could improve upon in the future" I have forgotten most of the other stuff I learned in college, but I'll never forget that lecture.
It's also straying far far away from the point. I never said starting with a box mix is bad or evil. It's being misleading and ambiguous to the public about your product I take issue with. Doing it in private is bad enough, but you have to expect someone to call you on it when you are advising others to follow your example on a public website seeking business advice. Your business philosophy, although may work for you in your circumstances, is not actually a universally accepted business practice regardless of the industry and is generally negatively received by potential customers. I didn't make this stuff up to personally attack anyone.
FromScratch, I agree with you all the way. And it is rediculous to state that someone has never lost a customer. This person needs to write a book on how to achieve a 100% closing ratio. I'm good, but not that good. I don't think even Indydebi can boast that kind of ratio. As I stated before, we are all taking business from someone else, so please don't insult the legitimate business people and please think first before you pass on business advice that will not be helpful to the newcomers.
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