She told you the cake was good, but because you didn't "disclose" that it was a doctored cake mix she wants a refund....phooey!
Does she get the recipe from every restaurant she goes into? Does she think that every restaurant makes everything from scratch? does she demand a refund when she finds out that lucscious cheesecake dessert she just ate arrived off of a truck and came out of the freezer.?
Yes, there are many people who can tell the difference between scratch and mix. Some can tell because to them the scratch tastes better. I can tell because the scratch tastes like crap! (I've only had 2 scratch cakes that I can stand to eat more than one bite of. But its totally based on (1) what I grew up on and (2) I've encountered a lot of crappy bakers! )
For some reason there are too many people out there who think "if you sell it, you MUST make it from scratch" and that situation is just not true. I am not saying that everyone or every place uses pre-prepared foods .... but walk thru a GFS store sometime. SOMEONE is buying all of that bulk prepackaged foods and its not all being sold to housewives!
To those who might ask you "I heard that you don't bake from scratch?", you can simply say, "You're right, I don't. And that doesn't make me any different than a lot of other bakers/bakeries in town."
I agree with those that mentioned unless she returns the cake, no refund at all. I don't even know if I would offer a refund unless I had the chance to sample myself.
For me personally I can't eat box mixes. I started doing scratch when I began my classes because I started getting extremely ill whenever I had a box mix cake or altered mixes. I did taste test some altered mixes on here and they were good but I just can't consume too much of it. As a customer I would want to know, but I would also ask first. This woman didn't ask you so I'm amazed that she would have the balls to mention it and expect a refund after the fact. Are you sure she isn't a competitor?
For some reason there are too many people out there who think "if you sell it, you MUST make it from scratch" and that situation is just not true. I am not saying that everyone or every place uses pre-prepared foods .... but walk thru a GFS store sometime. SOMEONE is buying all of that bulk prepackaged foods and its not all being sold to housewives!
LOL! Good point! Just who are they selling all that pre-made food to, anyway???
I hate the argument that if you don't bake from scratch, why should I buy from you because I can make the same mix at home for a lot cheaper. Ok, fine, go ahead, and then let's see if you can make it into that four-tier masterpiece you want.
It depends on your market. If this customer runs around telling everyone you use box mixes, be prepared to answer without acting or giving off any vibe that box mixes are wrong. Don't slam scratch bakers in the process, either. Present your product as worth the money.
I'm posting this in case anyone gets the vibe from this thread that somehow box mixes are wrong. If they are right for you, they're right for you. Whoosh away any bad mojo about "Oh, no! She's telling people I use box mixes!" You do what you do, you have reasons for doing it, and don't put a bad vibe out into the world. You want your customers to think your product is worth the price.
I agree with a PP that it could be a competitor trying to find out what bakeries use. It's good to know what your food is made with, for allergy purposes, but it's the consumers responsibilty to get all the info before purchasing.
I grew up on scratch, but when I got back into caking I was using mixes. It quickly ended and I went back to scratch just because I felt guilty when people complimented my baking and in the back of my head I knew it was just a box. To each his/her own, but she shouldn't get a refund just because she wanted a scratch cake. Who's to say she won't still run her mouth after the refund. Giving her the refund is like you being apologetic for using mixes as if you have no problem with it, don't give in.
Another way to look at this is that people are being trained by the grocery store chains. I can't believe how fast you can get all or some of your money back for cake that has been completely consumed!! I have worked for several grocery store bakeries over the years and I'm always shocked at the little picky details people complain about. Then the management automatically starts knocking down the price until the people don't mind all the "mistakes" on the cake.
I have had cake orders that the customer specifically stated a certain color icing, writing, roses etc and then the same customer complained and demanded money back for things they asked for.
Or the people who pick up and pay for the cake, then call in (after it is eaten) to say how horrible it WAS and they want money back. The cake wasn't returned as proof of its "inedibility", but they still need money back.
A refund means that something was wrong. You can't allow people to dictate refunds because THAT is what will get around, and everyone will be hounding you for money back for some silly thing just to get money back!!!!
I agree with a PP that it could be a competitor trying to find out what bakeries use. It's good to know what your food is made with, for allergy purposes, but it's the consumers responsibilty to get all the info before purchasing.
I grew up on scratch, but when I got back into caking I was using mixes. It quickly ended and I went back to scratch just because I felt guilty when people complimented my baking and in the back of my head I knew it was just a box. T
Excuse me, but why would you feel 'guilty' for using a mix? "just a box?' Did you not add the eggs, the oil, the liquid or any other flavorings to make it unique? Did you not mix and bake it correctly so it was not dry or overdone? What else is there? Does measuring the flour, sugar and baking powder yourself, some how make it more 'legitimate'? There are just as many ways to screw up a box cake as there are scratch cakes so assuming that it's in some way a reflection of ones skills as a baker is just wrong.
To me it's important to produce a consistent product...one that's proven to be tasty and delicious. Box cakes provide that consistency for me...and the flavorings I use provide the uniqueness that is mine alone. The true skill that's visible is how well the cake is decorated. If the cake is beautiful and tastes delicious there's no reason to feel guilty for anything! And like I mentioned in an earlier post, the fact that the OP would provide a refund is admitting that using mixes is somehow bad or wrong.
Scratch bakers--more power to you! But I would happily put one of my cakes next to yours any day because I know I would get just as many compliments--and that's what the customer is paying for!
I agree with a PP that it could be a competitor trying to find out what bakeries use. It's good to know what your food is made with, for allergy purposes, but it's the consumers responsibilty to get all the info before purchasing.
I grew up on scratch, but when I got back into caking I was using mixes. It quickly ended and I went back to scratch just because I felt guilty when people complimented my baking and in the back of my head I knew it was just a box. T
Excuse me, but why would you feel 'guilty' for using a mix? "just a box?' Did you not add the eggs, the oil, the liquid or any other flavorings to make it unique? Did you not mix and bake it correctly so it was not dry or overdone? What else is there? Does measuring the flour, sugar and baking powder yourself, some how make it more 'legitimate'? There are just as many ways to screw up a box cake as there are scratch cakes so assuming that it's in some way a reflection of ones skills as a baker is just wrong.
To me it's important to produce a consistent product...one that's proven to be tasty and delicious. Box cakes provide that consistency for me...and the flavorings I use provide the uniqueness that is mine alone. The true skill that's visible is how well the cake is decorated. If the cake is beautiful and tastes delicious there's no reason to feel guilty for anything! And like I mentioned in an earlier post, the fact that the OP would provide a refund is admitting that using mixes is somehow bad or wrong.
Scratch bakers--more power to you! But I would happily put one of my cakes next to yours any day because I know I would get just as many compliments--and that's what the customer is paying for!
No need to get hostile, I said I, me, myself felt guilty, I didn't knock anyone else. I also said to each his/her own. Growing up on scratch and knowing how to bake from scratch, I prefer keeping that part of me alive. If you read my whole statement, I also told the OP that giving a refund would be like admitting she feels she has done something wrong by using a mix, so don't give one.
Yes...it is opposite here in Canada and the US also..Scratch baking is very expensive so it makes more economical sense to bake with mixes.All the big restaraunt supply companies like Gordon and Sysco,Bridgebrand Dawn foods etc all sell their cake mixes in 50lb bags and none are scratch...Our baking products like flour,sugar,baking powder etc have gone up 58% in the last 6 years here in Canada so I can't afford to bake entirely scratch
Yep, Im just above kiddiekakes, and for me to use real butter is outragous. I use hard margerine...... of course I get the odd custoemr that says I should use real butter, and I ask them if they would eb willing to spend an extra $2 on the product.
I make stuff that will make me money, and personally a scratch cake price would not sell here.
I will start this by saying there is room in the market for everyone, scratch and box (I like both). But it is equally insulting to imply that putting flour and sugar in a bowl for a scratch cake is no different than a box. Box mixes are designed so that no matter what mistakes are made, the cake has a good chance to come out ok. GREAT scratch baking is an art just as much as a beautifully decorated cake, and I do appreciate the work of those artists. Again, not to start an argument, but please don't minimize the years of study and experimenting that it takes to become a great scratch baker.
holy bageezers!
No one was comparing the two!!!!
She asked a question, we answered.
There was no talk of scratch vs mix anywhere!
motherofgrace, if you look back through the posts, yes, it was mentioned, and that was what I was addressing. Not the debate of which is more legitimate, but that it was a put down. Everyone gets in an uproar over people who think anyone can decorate a cake, and this is the same situation.
GREAT scratch baking is an art just as much as a beautifully decorated cake.....
this box mix baker totally agrees!!! The talent of the baker is a BIG factor!!
Thank you Debi. I do not put down box bakers and I would appreciate the same consideration. In my studies, I have made many scratch cakes that I threw out. It is one of my greatest baking accomplishments to have box cake lovers also love my cakes. It isn't an either/or situation. I know people have had great box cakes and many bad scratch cakes. My marketing consists of giving cakes to charity benefits so that people can taste my products and not be afraid to purchase a scratch cake.
I always find these cases interesting. The people like the product, even eat the product, but somehow they call and complain about something and want money back. They don't ever seem to bring the product right back to the source and address the problem. There also is the threat, at least implied, that the news will be spread about the baker. I think the one comment is right- no amount of money returned is going to change the gossip from this person. So- I say let's unite and refuse to be bullied by these types of customers. We can express our acknowledgement that they are unhappy but no refund unless the contract was violated. This just seems to be happening more all the time that people want to see what they can get away with when it comes to businesses. I have a daughter-in-law that works for a national clothing store whose policy is no questions asked about returns and people even bring back clothing they have worn for a year and then want their money back. It isn't a cake problem - it's a people problem.
The customer is saying you bake from a box, which happens to be a fact. She's not slandering you by saying something that isn't true, nor did she say your product wasn't good. But she is stating a fact. You aren't ashamed or embarrassed by that, are you?
Baking from a box should not be a dirty little secret or something you should try to hide from your customers if they ask. There's nothing wrong with it, especially since 95% of the bakers out there do it! Should you advertise it? No, that's not necessary, but you should own it, and tell her yes, I do start with a premade mix and add my own special recipe, just like everyone else (er, unless they advertise differently, says FromScratchSF )
Should you give a refund? NO. Discount? NO. That's like admitting you did something wrong, which you did not! Who cares if she tells others you bake from a box? Is she Paris Hilton with 5M twitter followers? How much damage could she do? I'd be a little bothered if she was saying she didn't like your cake, but even then, you can't please everyone.
People these days - so entitled and think their single opinion is enough to ruin a business, thereby making blackmail A-OK so they can get their money back. Give me a break!
So, my suggestion is to tell her what you do make from scratch, offer her a 10% discount on her next order and leave it at that.
Rock on!
Jen
I agree with FromScratchSF, be honest if asked. And don't worry about it if you are not asked. Industry standard runs both ways. I have a bakery in my town that claims in writing, scratch recipes passed down from her family. I found out she raids Walmart at midnight and buys all of her items... cakes, cookies, pies, the works. That is wrong and I have told people that story. But claiming you have fresh, moist, great tasting cakes is not misleading.
This is just to answer the question of whether you can tell the difference in taste. I personally can. I never use to be able to tell and my sister would carry on about it but I thought it was all in her head. I liked the taste of box mixes - they tasted as good if not better than scratch to me. Then I started experimenting with scratch. Recipes from Planet Cake and Women's Weekly that are pretty foolproof. Now I can absolutely taste a huge difference and I no longer like the taste of box mixes. I made my Mum a gluten-free cake from a box mix this week since it was about 1/5 of the cost. Everyone that ate that cake asked me if it was a box mix - they could tell the difference too. But box mixes were a great way to cut my teeth - without them I never would have tried scratch.
From reading this thread, I can say that I do think that if I had bought an expensive custom cake (that is much more expensive than a bakery or grocery store) and realised that it was a box mix, I would be disappointed. I would assume too that by paying the extra, I was also paying for quality fresh ingredients. Again, this could be a country thing. I do not believe that Planet Cake would experience the success they have here if they used box mixes - but maybe the box mixes here are different to what is in the US as I have never been able to follow one of those doctored recipes despite very much wanting to try it.
But the expectations in general may be different here. If I go to a restaurant that is upmarket, I expect all the food to be freshly prepared - you just wouldn't get away with doing anything else. However, if you go to cheap cafe or a fast food outlet, you expect the mass produced food.
As to the refund, I don't know the right thing to do. In giving a token amount, I think you acknowledge that her expectations weren't met (which seems to be what her disappointment is) and you may create enough goodwill that she actually orders from you again knowing what it is you sell. On the other side, you delivered what you said you would and would have clarified it for her if she had communicated her expectations prior to baking her order. I can understand either decision.
... It is one of my greatest baking accomplishments to have box cake lovers also love my cakes...
I second this. What I find funny is when someone says they can make my cakes at home with a box of Betty Crocker. Alrightly then! I know I hit the nail on the head when my scratch cakes get compared to a box mix.
We've always gotten rave reviews on all of our cake flavors, and we do both mix and scratch, depending on the flavor. It's more about what we have found is well liked. If we do a box for one flavor, and people can't stop talking about how amazing it is, BINGO, we've found a winner for that flavor. Likewise, if we do a scratch recipe for another flavor, and people say it's the best cake they've ever had, BINGO, we've found a winner for that flavor! We're not going to switch to a mix for a scratch cake that people love, and we're not going to switch to a scratch for a flavor when people love the doctored mix. Why mess with success?
... It is one of my greatest baking accomplishments to have box cake lovers also love my cakes...
I second this. What I find funny is when someone says they can make my cakes at home with a box of Betty Crocker. Alrightly then! I know I hit the nail on the head when my scratch cakes get compared to a box mix.
My greatest moment is to have people say "Oh wow, this is so much better than a cake mix." Another one converted...
Person eating cake: "Is this a scratch cake?"
Me: "I bake some from scratch and some are doctored mixes. Do you like this cake?"
Person eating cake: "Yes, it's great!"
Me: "Then that's all you need to know."
Then I smile... and he/she smiles.
end of story.
Person eating cake: "Is this a scratch cake?"
Me: "I bake some from scratch and some are doctored mixes. Do you like this cake?"
Person eating cake: "Yes, it's great!"
Me: "Then that's all you need to know."
Then I smile... and he/she smiles.
end of story.
Person eating cake: "Is this a scratch cake?"
Me: "I bake some from scratch and some are doctored mixes. Do you like this cake?"
Person eating cake: "Yes, it's great!"
Me: "Then that's all you need to know."
Then I smile... and he/she smiles.
end of story.
I'm probably going to regret posting this because I don't want to start a war or offend anyone... and I know this will be unpopular here, BUT... why intentionally mislead your customers on what you are actually presenting to them? If your cake was baked from a box then you should answer a yes or a no to that question, not "JAZZ HANDS!"
I just feel that If a customer asks you a direct question you are only doing yourself and others that DO bake from scratch a disservice. It's why people question out prices, our worth and our integrity. As I said before, there is nothing wrong with it... until you try to hide it.
I seriously mean no offense to any individual decorator, and I'm sure your time and abilities are worth every penny, I'm just sharing my opinion and hope to present a different side of the argument in the day and age of Wikileaks.
Person eating cake: "Is this a scratch cake?"
Me: "I bake some from scratch and some are doctored mixes. Do you like this cake?"
Person eating cake: "Yes, it's great!"
Me: "Then that's all you need to know."
Then I smile... and he/she smiles.
end of story.
I loved the ones who would take a big bite of my cakes, give a groan of satisfaction and say, "Oh I LUV scratch cakes!" And I would say (I kid you not, I have said this), "That's great to know but what do you think of THIS cake?"
Now THAT'S a great answer
I'm also from Canada and I figured the big stores had mixes but I thought all bakeries would be from scratch. On shows like Cake Boss, they show adding all the ingredients so I thought they would all, I thought that's why they cost more. I bake from scratch and feel they taste better than a box although I've never had a doctored one. I do feel the taste has nothing to do with how good it looks. I only bake for friends, family and coworkers so I only ask for the cost of ingredients and if they give me something for the work , great. But believe it or not I have had coworkers not offer any thing for over 8 hours of work. Because they were fairly big cakes, and scratch, the cost was alot and since it was still more than you would pay at a store I guess they thought that was enough, maybe don't realize it really does cost me that much. I also make my own fondant and gumpaste.
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