Is Using A Cake Cricut Cheating?

Lounge By NatD Updated 13 Oct 2010 , 6:17am by NatD

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BillieH Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 3:45pm
post #31 of 72

I secretly dislike the "devil device" and I have no clue why I feel that way. I just do. It is what it is....but than again I learn through trial and error. Wouldn't want to do something the easy way now would I! LOL icon_razz.gif

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ALR1955 Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 3:56pm
post #32 of 72

You GO IndyDeb!!
I so totally agree! Don't we have enough to worry about without adding this to the list?

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cutthecake Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 4:22pm
post #33 of 72

If one thinks using cookie cutters is cheating, then using Cricut is cheating.
But I don't think either is cheating. I love tools and toys and gadgets.

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cownsj Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 4:45pm
post #34 of 72

Just as so many others have already said, it's a tool just like any other you're used to using and have probably been using all along. I'm guessing it may be bothering you only because it's something that's new, and it is a giant step from what you've been doing. If you use it, or watch others who use it regularly, you'll get used to this tool too and pretty soon it will just be another tool in your arsenal. I'm sure you don't think that using an impression mat is cheating, but it's the same type of thing. You get exact impressions just by using this mat, why shouldn't you be using other tools to make all those impressions instead? Same thing, I think it's just the size of the step taken with this machine.

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cakeprof Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 4:57pm
post #35 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by greengyrl26

(cake or otherwise) is nothing more than a glorified exacto knife. If you don't have the talent to DESIGN the cake...having a machine that cuts things faster won't help you. NO. It is not cheating anymore than using a sheeter instead of hand rolling your fondant is!




It is not cheating but it also shows a different level of skill. Simply because you can design a cake does not mean you have the skills to execute that design. Someone that can freehand pipe messages shows a greater level a skill than someone who cannot. My lettering is mediocre at best so I am in awe of those who can. And will never consider my skill to be equal to some who does not need to use tools like Wilton's letterng thing or a cricuit.

Not all tools are equal. There are tools that make jobs easier, and then there are tools that replace particular skills. Indydebi discussed woodworking--reminds me of that guy on PBS who uses tools but none of them are electrically powered and its all done by hand. That guy displaces a level of craftsmanship and skill that others relying on mechanical devices. There are plenty of folks in crafting industries that will talk about the loss of skills due to technology--have listened to my neighbor who does metal work and has a forge discuss this plenty of times.

Thus the cricut maybe nothing more than a glorified exacto knife, but it and not the user is doing the cutting. That is a skill that I know I am weak at, and while it is not cheating it does relate to the kind of professional one markets themselves as. Which relates to the next statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by erincc


WHO CARES?
If a customer wants that look, I will sell it to them! It doesn't matter how it got on the cake. I am primarily a scratch baker, but have had customers that want that box-mix taste, so I will make them a box-mix cake! No problem!




Customers who are paying your prices. As I have seen Indydebi (I hope I am crediting her correctly) post more than a few times in response to how much should I charge threads, one's level of skills should always be a factor in how much s/he charges.

If someone is charging top dollar prices per serving then they are indicating through that price they have a level of skill that warrants that price. I am sorry but I believe (and I am not the only one) that top dollar means top skills. I do not expect you not to be using tools but if you are charging $9.00+ per serving and you are showing me cakes with perfect lettering then you bet I expect you to be able to perform that work by hand not by machine.

But what does it matter it looks good right? Tell that to clothes designers that stitch by hand, tell that to the wood worker who uses only hand tools, tell that to chef that makes their own sausage, tell that to the baker that makes their own pie crusts. How it gets done is as important as how it looks and if you are charging simply by how it looks and not also by how it is accomplished then that is where I as a paying customer care--and I am not the only one.

It is not just used as a time saving device, it used to replace or augment skills and while not cheating, it also disengenous it assume it takes the same level of skill to use it to produce decorations as someone like Leah who uses cutters to make damask.

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Donnagardner Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 5:03pm
post #36 of 72

It is not cheating.....anything to make it easier and prettier is smart.

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Alfiesmom Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 5:48pm
post #37 of 72

AMEN Cakeprof

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Karen421 Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 7:02pm
post #38 of 72

I love this community, because we can all have different opinions - but still have a good discussion!

That being said, and I sure dont want to offend anyone, but Cakeprof just hit a nerve, with one of my biggest pet peeves. You just assumed that by using a Cricut that we dont have the proper skills to use cutters or an exacto knife properly. I for one can assure you that I can press straight down into fondant with a metal cutter. I also know for sure that on a brides wedding day, she is not going to care which method you chose to use, as long as you execute it perfectly.

I do a lot of building and I can swing a framing hammer better than most men, (sorry dont mean to stereotype!!!) but I choose to use a nail gun, why, because, it is less stress on my wrists. The fact that it is easier and faster is just an added bonus . Does that mean my skill level is lower absolutely not!

Every tool takes practice to use, and as Doug said: no matter what tool, it still comes down to the TALENT of the person using the tool.

IMHO

icon_lol.gif

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mustangsallii Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 7:13pm
post #39 of 72

It's not cheating at all! I'm super jealous of those that can afford it! I currently do all of my work with cutters, an exacto, and various objects around the kitchen, but if I could afford it I'd have a cake cricut in a heartbeat!

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Penanera Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 8:11pm
post #40 of 72

[quote="cakeprof"]

Quote:
Originally Posted by greengyrl26


But what does it matter it looks good right? Tell that to clothes designers that stitch by hand, tell that to the wood worker who uses only hand tools, tell that to chef that makes their own sausage, tell that to the baker that makes their own pie crusts. How it gets done is as important as how it looks and if you are charging simply by how it looks and not also by how it is accomplished then that is where I as a paying customer care--and I am not the only one.




I am sorry, but you are comparing apples and oranges. A chef that makes their own sausage or a baker that makes their own pie crust is not the same as using a tool to "cut" a product. Is the chef using a meat grinder to grind the sausage? Is the baker using a mixer to make the pie crust dough? Then this is the same as a decorator using a tool to cut the fondant.

And I know for a fact that if I asked a bride if it matters to her "how" I created the lettering or decor of a cake she would say "No." As long as the cake was the best work I, an experienced cake artist, could do, the bride would be happy. If I feel that I can hand cut something better then the Cricut or I want something cut that the Cricut can't do, then I will definitely do it by hand. But there is nothing wrong with a tool that saves time and stress.

My 2¢. icon_biggrin.gif

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Doug Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 8:23pm
post #41 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen421

I do a lot of building and I can swing a framing hammer better than most men, (sorry dont mean to stereotype!!!) but I choose to use a nail gun, why, because, it is less stress on my wrists. The fact that it is easier and faster is just an added bonus . Does that mean my skill level is lower absolutely not!




I still remember the first time I use a nail gun -- nearly shot myself in the leg twice and can't begin to count the misfires and misplace nails, but once I got the hang of it -- no looking back -- the hammer is now for "encouraging/persuasion -- as in here, I'll make it fit", demolition, and those few times a nail gun is overkill (is there such a thing?). In many ways it takes more skill to control the power and speed of a nail gun and get desired results.

I repeat again: No matter what tool, it all comes down to the skill and talent of the person wielding it.

-----

as for the "stitching by hand" --uuhhhmmm -- lets see, so they bit a hole in the cloth and threaded the thread through those holes. This after tearing the cloth to shape and size by hand/teeth and used thread they hand spun after using their teeth and fingers to .....

point is -- even there TONS of tools. form the shears for the sheep or combine for the cotton, to the carding machines to the spinning to the needles to the scissors and on and on.

And as one who CAN sew both by hand and by machine and has known how for over 50 years having started machine sewing on a TREADLE machine......

I find it requires far MORE skill to use the machine than to sew by hand.
the trade off is TIME not quality.

we should not kid ourselves into being Luddites and claiming that only "handmade" / "scratch made" is the best. Very high quality is often only attainable with the aid of tools and machines.

and re: scratch made (and someone has this in their siggy line) (paraphrasing) to really make anything from scratch, one would first have to create the universe.

----

TALENT and SKILL are the keys.

Use the tool that best fits the situation.

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tiggy2 Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 8:26pm
post #42 of 72

I see no difference between it and a cutter except it's faster. Unless you're freehanding with a knife you're using a tool of some sort, cutter, stencil, pattern, etc. I'm sure there are some on here that have the skill to freehand everyhand everything but I don't think it's the majority.

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cyndiK Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 8:54pm
post #43 of 72

I LOVE reading all the topics on CC. I also don't feel it cheating when using the cricut. In fact, I love mine so much I bought the Gypsy to go with it! Since making my cakes my kids love to get in on the action. They also love using the cricut to make designs to add to their cakes. What a fun way for them to learn to decorate. Technology is a good thing=)

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cakeprof Posted 9 Aug 2010 , 10:24pm
post #44 of 72

[quote="Penanera"]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakeprof

Quote:
Originally Posted by greengyrl26


But what does it matter it looks good right? Tell that to clothes designers that stitch by hand, tell that to the wood worker who uses only hand tools, tell that to chef that makes their own sausage, tell that to the baker that makes their own pie crusts. How it gets done is as important as how it looks and if you are charging simply by how it looks and not also by how it is accomplished then that is where I as a paying customer care--and I am not the only one.



I am sorry, but you are comparing apples and oranges. A chef that makes their own sausage or a baker that makes their own pie crust is not the same as using a tool to "cut" a product. Is the chef using a meat grinder to grind the sausage? Is the baker using a mixer to make the pie crust dough? Then this is the same as a decorator using a tool to cut the fondant.

And I know for a fact that if I asked a bride if it matters to her "how" I created the lettering or decor of a cake she would say "No." As long as the cake was the best work I, an experienced cake artist, could do, the bride would be happy. If I feel that I can hand cut something better then the or I want something cut that the can't do, then I will definitely do it by hand. But there is nothing wrong with a tool that saves time and stress.

My 2¢. icon_biggrin.gif




Yeah not some of the best comparison. I'll concede that point, however it does not invalidate the larger point which is skill matters and the more sophisticated, better developed, more diverse a person skills the more they get to charge.

Designers that stitch by hand (will not concede that example) charge more than someone who stitches with a machine. It is a more difficult skill and more labor intensive hence they can (and do) charge more. Frankly there is not a compelling reason why someone who uses a cricut to produce designs should get to charge the same as someone who produces their decorations by hand. Skill level matters. Those who produce damask by hand, as they have claimed here demonstrate a higher level of skill than someone who opts to use a cricut because they cannot do it by hand.

It bears repeating skill level is a determining factor in what people charge. If they are not considering it, they should be. And for people who pay for particular quality craftsmanship--who do inquire as to skill level you bet it matters.

Using a cricut to save time is not the same thing as using is to represent a skill you do not have.

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smokeysmokerton Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 1:31pm
post #45 of 72

I understand what you're saying, Cakeprof. The tool may only be as valuable as the skill of one using it, but there is a difference between having the skills to use the tool and the skill to do by hand what the tool does. I could use cutters all day long, but would I be able to free hand those same shapes with an exacto? Probably not. Is a person that can more skilled than I am? You bet.

Having said that, I think the majority of the cake buying public doesn't really care how you get there, as long as you get there.

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flamingobaker Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 1:58pm
post #46 of 72

There is still something about it that bothers me.
Maybe it is just because of the style of cake it creates, a "scrapbook cake",
and I will be glad when that style moves along for something else.

Or is it because the cricut is less of a "tool" and more of a "machine"?
Theoretically, how much difference is there between the cricut and this:


???

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AKS Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 4:02pm
post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingobaker

There is still something about it that bothers me.
Maybe it is just because of the style of cake it creates, a "scrapbook cake",
and I will be glad when that style moves along for something else.

Or is it because the is less of a "tool" and more of a "machine"?
Theoretically, how much difference is there between the and this:


???





A LOT!!!

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cownsj Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 6:34pm
post #48 of 72

How about this analogy? Automobiles used to be made by hand. Every piece by hand, then hand assembled. Along came Henry Ford who invented the production line and was producing Model T Fords at a very fast rate. It revolutioned the auto industry, and the industrial world in general. It was machines that made the work easier, quicker, more profitable, etc. Do I think he was cheating? Heck no, and history has shown he wasn't a cheater but an innovator, and inventor, and a very rich man.... (could't resist that part lol).

Do I think that someone who can create the same thing by hand is more skilled? Absolutely. Should they get paid more for it? If they can show their customers why it is worth more to the client to have it done by their skilled labor; yes. Price is what the market will bear and what a person is willing to pay for something. Some people will pay through the nose to have the skilled craftsman do a particular technique on their cake. For others, as someone else said, they don't care how you get there as long as you get there. There are so many variables here as well, the particular technique, market for that technique, where you live, etc. Heck, I'm using a computer right now to type everything I want to send. It's quicker and easier than handwriting. I don't have to worry whether someone can read my writing, and it has spell check which most typewriter never had. Plus I can save my work and go back and correct mistakes, or changes in my thoughts and just reprint. I don't have to retype the entire letter with every change or typo I find.

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bakermommy4 Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 6:52pm
post #49 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by kansaslaura



Now, if you go buy yourself one of these, I might raise an eyebrow...






Can I find this machine at my local Michaels icon_lol.gif
That was tooo funny kansaslaura...mass production at its finest. Would definitely raise an eyebrow on that one.

I agree with the masses about the cricut cake...I can't wait to get one.

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baybeecakes Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 7:19pm
post #50 of 72

I just finished a Winnie the pooh cake and have had a lot of people ask me if I used a cricut. I did not, I cut every thing by hand. I don't see the difference! it's not cheating, do I get to charge more because I did it by hand? no, I get to charge what I think is far and what people will pay! if some one wants to pay 9.00+ per-serving and they don't ask you to make it by hand using no tools then why is that cheating if some one likes my work and wants to pay me that kinda money why is that wrong? who is any one to say what other people should or should not charge for a cake depending on their level of expertise??? if people like your work and want to pay that kinda money let them.

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maggie55 Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 7:21pm
post #51 of 72

I am wanting to get a Cricut... Do the frosting sheets and fondant sheets taste good?

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greengyrl26 Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 7:37pm
post #52 of 72

Cakeprof, I understand what you're saying, but I still think you're comparing two different things. Until the Cricut came along, I used an Exacto knife to cut everything (or cutters, or whatever), and it looked beautiful. The only thing this machine does for ME personally, is make things faster. You can't compare cut letters to piped letters, because they are not the same. I don't pipe on my fondant, because I do not like how it looks, not because I can't do it. So for some, maybe it replaces having a "skill". But for me, it just makes what am already "skilled" enough to do on my own...faster.

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NatD Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 12:41am
post #53 of 72

wow i didn't realize how much attention this post would get....I should have worded it differently and not used the word cheating....I guess i was looking at it more from an artists point of view....just like some of the other posts said now anyone can make an amazing looking cake by using this "tool"...i think using cutters are completely different...not everyone can use a rose cutter and make a perfect rose...that takes practice and some sort of talent....

and just like some of the other posts i don't know why but I just don't like the idea of the cricut...you can tell right away when someone uses a cricut for stenciling,letters or numbers...they all start to look the same....I am not against tools "helping" to create the end result just not something that completely creates it for me....maybe it's just the artist in me....I am a hairdresser/make up artist and I couldn't imagine using something that did all the work for me when doing a brides hair and makeup....then what would seperate me from anyone else?

again I didn't mean this post to say anyone was "cheating" or to offend anyone...just my opinion that's all...

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cownsj Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 1:08am
post #54 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatD

wow i didn't realize how much attention this post would get....I should have worded it differently and not used the word cheating....I guess i was looking at it more from an artists point of view....just like some of the other posts said now anyone can make an amazing looking cake by using this "tool"...i think using cutters are completely different...not everyone can use a rose cutter and make a perfect rose...that takes practice and some sort of talent....

and just like some of the other posts i don't know why but I just don't like the idea of the ...you can tell right away when someone uses a for stenciling,letters or numbers...they all start to look the same....I am not against tools "helping" to create the end result just not something that completely creates it for me....maybe it's just the artist in me....I am a hairdresser/make up artist and I couldn't imagine using something that did all the work for me when doing a brides hair and makeup....then what would seperate me from anyone else?

again I didn't mean this post to say anyone was "cheating" or to offend anyone...just my opinion that's all...




I think it's been a good discussion. I'm one who doesn't think it's cheating. (And I know you didn't offend me with this wording one bit) However, I also don't want one. So far what I've seen has been from the demo where they use the sheets. I don't like the look at all, but maybe when I see it done with gumpaste I'll feel differently. I also don't think that having this, or any other tool is enough. You also need an imagination and an artistic eye to know how to use what you cut out, where to place it, what colors to use, do you cup the item or leave it flat, do you curl it or not? So while I think it's a tool that many can, will and already are using; so far, I'm not seeing the benefit I would personally want from it. Maybe it's just my reluctance for change. I don't know, but I've liked reading the different points of view on this. And I'm guessing that one I may very well want one, just not yet.

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FonDont Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 1:16am
post #55 of 72

Don't even get me started.

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adventuregal Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 2:23am
post #56 of 72

IMHO I wouldn't consider it CHEATING, but I definitely would never buy one myself. Like a few previous posters the cricut does not sit right with me. I think it's nice for people to have a machine do things that they don't want to do or can't do by hand, BUT I have an issue when someone thinks they are a "decorator" because they can bake a cake and use a cricut. I have respect for the decorators that have an arsenal of techniques that may include the cricut, but anyone that uses a cricut exclusively or for most of every cake they do would make me turn and walk away. I'm all around not a fan. It's the same way I feel when a decorator frosts a cake, but then just buys a bunch of plastic things on the top. It may be a petty, hypocritical thought, but thats how I think. Maybe one day when I have a full and busy shop I will buy one for lots of orders at once and then I'll be putting my foot in my mouth! icon_smile.gif

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3GCakes Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 2:42am
post #57 of 72

Is it cheating to make a scrapbook with a Cricut? Should people value the scrapbook less? Even if they are an awesome photographer?

People used to only have portraits done by either sketching/painting. Guess what? Cameras made it easier...but still took immense skill/knowledge/patience to turn out a great portrait.

Colors/lighting/shading/placement of subjects.....takes some know-how.

And you still have to make a delicious cake and then ice it perfectly smooth with a Cricut. And then you only use it when someone wants cut-outs and not piping.

They still have to invent a Lambeth piping machine available to the masses....will we have to come back to this argument in future?

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thatslifeca Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 3:08am
post #58 of 72

My opion is that if you want a circut then you go and get one. Would I get one, that would be a no. From what I have seen in demo's and on other peoples cakes, I can do by hand. I am a cake toy junky, but i prefer to spend my money on other toys. I think it's just what you prefer. I like to think of cakers as artists, we look at cake like a painter looks at a canvas. Does it make the painting less beautiful if you found out that the painter used their naked body to paint with icon_eek.gif? We have to supply our clients with what they want, if the circut is what you want to use....then it doesn't make the cake less beatiful. It's all in the eye of the artist......regarless of your canvas.

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cakeprof Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 3:30am
post #59 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by greengyrl26

Cakeprof, I understand what you're saying, but I still think you're comparing two different things. Until the came along, I used an Exacto knife to cut everything (or cutters, or whatever), and it looked beautiful. The only thing this machine does for ME personally, is make things faster. You can't compare cut letters to piped letters, because they are not the same. I don't pipe on my fondant, because I do not like how it looks, not because I can't do it. So for some, maybe it replaces having a "skill". But for me, it just makes what am already "skilled" enough to do on my own...faster.




And I understand where you are coming from as well. And I am not saying everyone using a cricut is using it because they are not skilled at cutting. But I can tell you if I puchased a cricut it would let me do all sorts of things I cannot do now. And all I am saying is I should not misrepresent my skils by charging a price that is commensurate with someone who can do it by hand (even they end up not doing it because they find it saves valuable time). And while folks will say who cares because all that matters is the final product, I believe that overlooks what one charges is a reflection of their skill level and if you cannot cut and have to use a cricut then you do not have the skill evel of someone who does and uses it to save time.

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3GCakes Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 3:48am
post #60 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakeprof

Quote:
Originally Posted by greengyrl26

Cakeprof, I understand what you're saying, but I still think you're comparing two different things. Until the came along, I used an Exacto knife to cut everything (or cutters, or whatever), and it looked beautiful. The only thing this machine does for ME personally, is make things faster. You can't compare cut letters to piped letters, because they are not the same. I don't pipe on my fondant, because I do not like how it looks, not because I can't do it. So for some, maybe it replaces having a "skill". But for me, it just makes what am already "skilled" enough to do on my own...faster.



And I understand where you are coming from as well. And I am not saying everyone using a is using it because they are not skilled at cutting. But I can tell you if I puchased a it would let me do all sorts of things I cannot do now. And all I am saying is I should not misrepresent my skils by charging a price that is commensurate with someone who can do it by hand (even they end up not doing it because they find it saves valuable time). And while folks will say who cares because all that matters is the final product, I believe that overlooks what one charges is a reflection of their skill level and if you cannot cut and have to use a then you do not have the skill evel of someone who does and uses it to save time.




Anyone who buys a Cricut and uses it....must charge a price commensurate with the equipment they use...the wear and tear and the upkeep--and possible replacement-- of the machine.
I'd say it's pretty much a wash. An exacto and years of skill as compared to a Cricut and the materials, time, and upkeep of the machine are probably still about the same.

Buddy Valastro's sheeter probably breaks down...needs fixed...and cost a crapload of money. People who want him to use it will pay the same as if he rolled the fondant out himself with a 3.00 piece of PVC.

If you are willing to invest in the machine for you customer's satisfaction...then the customer pays for the machine as well. If you are willing to invest in developing the skill with a lesser-priced tool, then the customer pays for the skill and not the tool.

I don't see what difference it makes. The customer will pay-and should be charged- for either the skill or the equipment it takes to replicate the skill.

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