Should I Give Her All Money Back
Decorating By pattycakes55d Updated 20 Jul 2010 , 9:15am by allaboutcakeuk
The customer still received and served cake, which was entirely consumed. Although the appearance was different than what was ordered, customer accepted $60 discount for that.
Customer would not have put cracked cake into her car. Pictures would show cake after it came out of car.
All other complaints are smokescreen.
Customer received and accepted and consumed product, so she is not entitled to full refund.
I have never had this type of problem but I would say "no way" in a polite way. She already got an almost 50% discount.. she owed a total of $125.00, paid $65.00 and didn't have to pay the remaining $60.00. Maybe you could nicely explain that to her and the fact that you gave specific instructions not to put it into the back seat and that it was completely consumed so you can in no way give her a refund. The cake that you gave was worth the $65.00 that she paid. That is only a little more than $1.50 per serving, that is a steal.
I'd shoot her and her mom...
Ha! (kidding)
But seriously, we aren't Wal-Mart and don't have Wal-Mart mentalities that think the customer is always right because they aren't! I fight when I know I'm right. You already met her half way when the accepted agreement was made. Photo or not, she SAW the cake and accepted it on the spot regardless of signing off on it. It was her responsibility at that point. Sure she had to have a cake, but if she had any doubts she would have expressed it then, refused it, and said she was going elsewhere (Wal-Mart) to pick up something to serve. No returned cake = nothing to refund. (if she continues to threaten to hurt your business or good name, I'd let her know she'll be turned over to collections for the full amount instead of what was agreed upon during pick up.)
The 2 reasons why I would give her money back:
1. You did not have her sign a waiver stating how the cake should be transported or that once it leaves your place it is their responsibility. So even if you verbally said that, you need that paper to back you up.
2. You did not take a picture of the cake before it left. So you do not have anything to back you up on how the cake actually looked like before it left your place.
I don't know if the complaint about the dryness was just made up or not, but they weren't happy even with the discount. This is one time I would just pay it and be rid of them. She is going to bad mouth you any way, but worse if you don't refund. Just don't stoop down to her level and bad mouth her back to others who may ask you about it, be the professional in this case. You will have plenty of other customers that will love your work.
Ahhh, the joys of the cake business...
Unfortunately, even if you are completely in the right, there is no proof. Yes, she accepted the cake, she accepted the discount, and she even ate the cake. As hard as it would be, I'd probably give her the full refund and count it as a hard lesson learned (contract, photos, etc.). I don't believe in rewarding bad behavior, but is the headache worth $65?
Folks keep saying her party consumed the cake completely--how do they know this? The OP only says that the client said the cake served 25 instead of 40 and then concluded so they ate the cake. Simply because it was served does not mean it was consumed in its entirety. That is not proof of consumption. Now it is also the case that there is no proof that they did not consume it entirely so that probably works in the OP's favor.
OP said they put the cake in the seat of the car, which was NOT level. (I assume she saw them do this or how else would she have known?) Even if you don't have printed transporting instructions, KNOWING they were not transporting it correctly should have been a red flag to grab a piece of paper, write "Customer understands and agrees that they are not transporting the cake as instructed by the baker and baker is not responsible for the cake once it leaves the shop. Cake is leaving the shop in perfect condition." Quick signature, date and time, and you're off the hook.
And I do understand that the customer accepted the cake without the figurines, but what else was she supposed to do? She had a party that day and needed a cake. Yes, she could have refused the cake and gone to Wal-Mart, but maybe she didn't have time to run all over town trying to find a replacement cake, and it STILL wouldn't have been what she ordered. Clearly she didn't want a Wal-Mart cake or she would have just gone there in the first place!
Like I said, I read TWO posts yesterday where decorators have altered the cake design from what was ordered, and BOTH ended up with very unhappy customers threatening to sue. I just don't understand how people think it's OK to change an order - without discussing it with the customer - and still expect them to pay. Imagine telling your child that they're going to have a Spiderman cake...and they've told all their friends...and then you show up with a cake with flowers! If they order a chocolate cake and you're out of cocoa, is it OK to change it to lemon? I'm not meaning to be harsh, but as professionals, we just can't do things like that! And if the unhappy customer takes out an ad in the newspaper to alert people of an ACTUAL bad experience with the business, that is not slander.
OP said they put the cake in the seat of the car, which was NOT level. (I assume she saw them do this or how else would she have known?) Even if you don't have printed transporting instructions, KNOWING they were not transporting it correctly should have been a red flag to grab a piece of paper, write "Customer understands and agrees that they are not transporting the cake as instructed by the baker and baker is not responsible for the cake once it leaves the shop. Cake is leaving the shop in perfect condition." Quick signature, date and time, and you're off the hook.
And I do understand that the customer accepted the cake without the figurines, but what else was she supposed to do? She had a party that day and needed a cake. Yes, she could have refused the cake and gone to Wal-Mart, but maybe she didn't have time to run all over town trying to find a replacement cake, and it STILL wouldn't have been what she ordered. Clearly she didn't want a Wal-Mart cake or she would have just gone there in the first place!
Like I said, I read TWO posts yesterday where decorators have altered the cake design from what was ordered, and BOTH ended up with very unhappy customers threatening to sue. I just don't understand how people think it's OK to change an order - without discussing it with the customer - and still expect them to pay. Imagine telling your child that they're going to have a Spiderman cake...and they've told all their friends...and then you show up with a cake with flowers! If they order a chocolate cake and you're out of cocoa, is it OK to change it to lemon? I'm not meaning to be harsh, but as professionals, we just can't do things like that! And if the unhappy customer takes out an ad in the newspaper to alert people of an ACTUAL bad experience with the business, that is not slander.
I agree 100%. 
She didn't necessarily change the design, she said everything was on the cake that was ordered except Pooh and Eeyore. She called and told the customer this before pick-up and the customer was fine with it. She basically provided what was ordered except for two figurines. Two figurines are not worth the $60.00 discount to begin with in my book... if the figurines are worth so much $$$ then what was the actual cake worth... nothing. That is not how cake decorating works.. the cake has to be worth something too. No she doesn't have pictures or signed papers but... would you bake a cake for 40 servings and sell it for $65.00 decorated or not? I wouldn't... that is like stealing.This one was decorated and was consumed (partially or completely it was still consumed) so it was worth the $65.00 that the lady paid.
She didn't necessarily change the design, she said everything was on the cake that was ordered except Pooh and Eeyore. She called and told the customer this before pick-up and the customer was fine with it. She basically provided what was ordered except for two figurines. Two figurines are not worth the $60.00 discount to begin with in my book... if the figurines are worth so much $$$ then what was the actual cake worth... nothing. That is not how cake decorating works.. the cake has to be worth something too. No she doesn't have pictures or signed papers but... would you bake a cake for 40 servings and sell it for $65.00 decorated or not? I wouldn't... that is like stealing.This one was decorated and was consumed (partially or completely it was still consumed) so it was worth the $65.00 that the lady paid.
The OP actually was making the figures according to her post. She was half way making them when she had an emergency so she put flowers on it instead. So the cake was actually not designed the way the customer wanted. She was offered the discount, but as another posters stated, what was she suppose to do? She had an event and had to have the cake. What the OP didn't do was to get anything in writing and pictures on how the cake was when it left her place. So she doesn't have anything to back her up that the cake was not leaning, etc when it left. Again, I say to refund her and call this a lesson learn for future cakes.
She didn't necessarily change the design, she said everything was on the cake that was ordered except Pooh and Eeyore. She called and told the customer this before pick-up and the customer was fine with it. She basically provided what was ordered except for two figurines. Two figurines are not worth the $60.00 discount to begin with in my book... if the figurines are worth so much $$$ then what was the actual cake worth... nothing. That is not how cake decorating works.. the cake has to be worth something too. No she doesn't have pictures or signed papers but... would you bake a cake for 40 servings and sell it for $65.00 decorated or not? I wouldn't... that is like stealing.This one was decorated and was consumed (partially or completely it was still consumed) so it was worth the $65.00 that the lady paid.
The 2 figurines are what MAKE it a Pooh cake! It isn't like she left off a leaf. If you order a Tinkerbell cake and leave off Tinkerbell...well...now you have a treehouse cake. If you're in a cake competition and you leave off the main character...I don't care how good your decorating skills are, Kerry Vincent is not going to give you the win! So yes, in my opinion, 2 figurines are worth the entire cost of the cake when those figurines are what MAKE the cake! You can't promise someone an elaborate cake and then make a much simpler cake but say, "Well, it isn't what you ordered, so I'll only charge you 1/2 price. And being that your party is today, you have to accept the deal or you won't have any cake at all!"
But the customer was ok with that and she didn't have to accept it if she didn't like it. Around here you can go to Wal-Mart and have a cake in an hour or so... they even do Pooh cakes. If she didn't like it she had that option.
But the customer was ok with that and she didn't have to accept it if she didn't like it. Around here you can go to Wal-Mart and have a cake in an hour or so... they even do Pooh cakes. If she didn't like it she had that option.
The customer might not have had an hour or so to wait on a new cake. She might not have wanted a Wal-Mart cake. (She must not have or she would have just gone there in the first place.) She might have wanted 3D gumpaste figurines, which Wal-Mart can not do. To say, "I didn't do what you asked for and if you don't like it, you can go somewhere else!" is not a good way to do - and stay - in business.
Well, if there is no signed contract, there is no signed contract for either party. She got more out of it than the OP. She got a cake and ate a cake. She's gotten a huge discount, so I wouldn't give her another penny. Unfortunate circumstances occurred, YET, she still accepted the cake. A day later, she's stating something was wrong with the cake, but it's all consumed? NO REFUND!
WOW you guys are a tough bunch lol. If I may put my two cents in, there are some basic factors here that entitle the customer to receive a full refund:
1: There is no contract for anything by the sounds of it to me
2: The most important thing is that the op didn't provide what was promised. I think pooh and eeyore are very important in this case.
3: Not the customers problem what your emergency was.....she's getting something that she didn't ask for....but making do with what the op wants to give her.
4: There is no picture nor is there anything to document that the customer was fine with it (kinda like he said she said) won't hold up in court.
I'm sorry but in this case op has to refund the customer. The elemt that is missing for the cake is what made this cake from the sounds of it.
But the customer was ok with that and she didn't have to accept it if she didn't like it. Around here you can go to Wal-Mart and have a cake in an hour or so... they even do Pooh cakes. If she didn't like it she had that option.
But she may not have had an hour. Or she may have, but was thrown off by the whole situation. I don't hold my customers accountable for poor decisions they make while under duress...caused by ME. Unless It's really an outrageous mistake I'm delivering (like a poker table cake instead of a 4 tiered white wedding cake, or it's split down the middle) I never expect a customer to turn away a cake on the day of their event because the design is wrong, leaving them flounder around trying to recover from my breech of contract. I would consider that unreasonable on my part.
If I special order a $125 shirt for a big event I have and the day it's delivered it's the wrong color, I may take their offer to only pay $65 because I'm busy getting ready for my event and don't have time to deal with going shopping for another shirt. As Judge Judy would say, "but for your mistake, I wouldn't even be in the situation of having to make that choice."
Then, if while at the event, I discovered a button missing, on top of the problems I already had, you bet I would have demanded a refund. And if you came back with, "well, you wore it." I would be livid! And yes, a shirt, even though worn, can be given back. A cake can not, once it's been served, in my opinion. Why would I expect someone, who I'd already upset by getting the order wrong, to scrape 40 half eaten servings off of plates into a box to return to me?
While I understand the need to vent, I often get the feeling that many folks on this site see the customer as the enemy. And I wonder how you can ever be successful with that attitude.
Let's say you go into a steak house and order prime rib, but the waitress gets the order wrong and brings you chicken instead. You're so hungry that you don't want to wait on them to cook your steak, so you eat the chicken anyway. Is it fair the tell the waitress, after you've cleaned your plate, that you don't want to pay for it because it wasn't what you ordered? Shouldn't we all accept the fact that sh** happens and it is our job to speak up when it does?
Yes, the op didn't give her what she asked for, but if the customer wasn't happy with it, she should have said so then and there, collected her money, and left the cake. Op would have been left with a cake she had no use for and out all of the expenses, and customer would have had to find another cake. It would've sucked for both of them, but sh** happens, it happened to them, whatever. The way it did happen, customer still had a cake for her party, but expects op to be out everything anyway. I dunno. That's just my opinion.
ETA:
"As Judge Judy would say, "but for your mistake, I wouldn't even be in the situation of having to make that choice."
I guess she does have a point. Oh how I hate being torn.....
I had a similar situation happen with a cowboy boot cake I did. The cake was picked up, and they were driving an hour plus with the cake in 90 degree weather. The next day she called, told me the cake was sagging and falling over, and that it wasn't anything like what she wanted. Honestly, I didn't want to give her any money back because the cake looked like it was left in the heat, with the warping in the picture she sent. I DID (and ALWAYS do) take a picture before I let the cake leave my sight. I sent her an email explaining that the damage was excessive, considering the cake was made 12 hours prior to her picking it up (she was late picking it up) and it had stood fine the entire time. I made no mention of money in the previous email. She came back and told me she had to buy another cake from the grocery store, would I refund her money? I ended up telling her that normally, I deliver because that way the cake is set up in the shape you wanted it. If you transport it, you are responsible. I did, on good faith, after explaining that refund her a small portion of the cake! If the cake was taken, you cannot be held responsible for what happens to it once it it out of your hands. You've already refunded enough by not making them pay for the remainder of the cake. They are really pathetic and have a lot of time on their hands if they really take out an ad or something, and it's not like they will ever call you for a cake again, so who cares?
I had a similar situation happen with a cowboy boot cake I did. The cake was picked up, and they were driving an hour plus with the cake in 90 degree weather. The next day she called, told me the cake was sagging and falling over, and that it wasn't anything like what she wanted. Honestly, I didn't want to give her any money back because the cake looked like it was left in the heat, with the warping in the picture she sent. I DID (and ALWAYS do) take a picture before I let the cake leave my sight. I sent her an email explaining that the damage was excessive, considering the cake was made 12 hours prior to her picking it up (she was late picking it up) and it had stood fine the entire time. I made no mention of money in the previous email. She came back and told me she had to buy another cake from the grocery store, would I refund her money? I ended up telling her that normally, I deliver because that way the cake is set up in the shape you wanted it. If you transport it, you are responsible. I did, on good faith, after explaining that refund her a small portion of the cake! If the cake was taken, you cannot be held responsible for what happens to it once it it out of your hands. You've already refunded enough by not making them pay for the remainder of the cake. They are really pathetic and have a lot of time on their hands if they really take out an ad or something, and it's not like they will ever call you for a cake again, so who cares?
You at least had pictures. The OP did not have a waiver or picture, so who is to say that the cake was not leaning, etc when she picked it up? There is no proof to back the OP up.
I agree with Artscallion on this. The customer was put into a bind and had to make a decision under duress caused by the OP. We don't know the customer's situation, she may not have had time to get another cake from Wal-mart, etc. for her event which was probably that day.
Is $65 worth going to court for especially when you don't have proof, anything in writing, etc? Not for me. Refund her the money and be done with it.
I'm sorry but in this case op has to refund the customer.
You don't have to do anything... you can run your own business the way you want (within the law). Even if she files a complaint with the BBB, they can't make you do anything about it. You have the opportunity to respond to the complaint, if you like, but it's just a complaint or opinion of that one person's experience.
Short story - everything was on the cake except Pooh/Eeyore. I was half way done figures and had a personal emergency. Put some flowers, etc on cake instead. I told the customer and even before she said anything I told her what happened and said that she didn't need to pay remainder. She paid $65 deposit and owed $60.00.
You didn't give her what she asked for. She did agree to the altered design at half the original price. I won't refund anything else. Don't be bullied.
You at least had pictures. The OP did not have a waiver or picture, so who is to say that the cake was not leaning, etc when she picked it up? There is no proof to back the OP up.
I agree with Artscallion on this. The customer was put into a bind and had to make a decision under duress caused by the OP. We don't know the customer's situation, she may not have had time to get another cake from Wal-mart, etc. for her event which was probably that day.
Is $65 worth going to court for especially when you don't have proof, anything in writing, etc? Not for me. Refund her the money and be done with it.
Just to be clear, the op not having pictures or a waiver of any sort really doesn't factor in as far as I'm concerned because we aren't the jury, and she didn't threaten to sue her anyway. We can only go by what the op says, and she said the cake was fine when it left. She said she explained the problem to the customer before she picked it up(I think, if I'm wrong, please correct me) so I'm not sure that qualifies as duress when she knew beforehand and actually had time to think about it.
So, if we're talking full disclosure before the offer was accepted, and assume that the op is telling the truth about the condition of the cake when it left her, does that make a difference in your opinion?? I'm going back and forth on this(my initial reaction was more about the threats than anything), so I'm just curious if I'm looking at it in a different way than some others.
You at least had pictures. The OP did not have a waiver or picture, so who is to say that the cake was not leaning, etc when she picked it up? There is no proof to back the OP up.
I agree with Artscallion on this. The customer was put into a bind and had to make a decision under duress caused by the OP. We don't know the customer's situation, she may not have had time to get another cake from Wal-mart, etc. for her event which was probably that day.
Is $65 worth going to court for especially when you don't have proof, anything in writing, etc? Not for me. Refund her the money and be done with it.
Just to be clear, the op not having pictures or a waiver of any sort really doesn't factor in as far as I'm concerned because we aren't the jury, and she didn't threaten to sue her anyway. We can only go by what the op says, and she said the cake was fine when it left. She said she explained the problem to the customer before she picked it up(I think, if I'm wrong, please correct me) so I'm not sure that qualifies as duress when she knew beforehand and actually had time to think about it.
So, if we're talking full disclosure before the offer was accepted, and assume that the op is telling the truth about the condition of the cake when it left her, does that make a difference in your opinion?? I'm going back and forth on this(my initial reaction was more about the threats than anything), so I'm just curious if I'm looking at it in a different way than some others.
I re-read the OP post. As I a understood it, she did not let the customer know ahead of time. She stated that before the customer had a chance to say anything, she offered her the discounted price. Put yourself in the customer's shoes...she is at the baker's getting ready to pick up her cake that she probably was looking forward to (anyone willing to pay get a custom made cake over a Wal-Mart cake usually is). Her event was probably that day, and she is needing a cake. Yes, she can go to Walmart and get a cake that they already had made and had them put a pooh figure on it, but what if she didn't have time? Who knows? That is making a decision under duress IMHO.
Is the OP telling the truth on the condition of the cake before it left, probably. However, she now has a very upset customer who is going to bad mouth her and do what she can to get a refund. As a business owner myself, this is one time I would give her the $65 and be rid of her.
You at least had pictures. The OP did not have a waiver or picture, so who is to say that the cake was not leaning, etc when she picked it up? There is no proof to back the OP up.
I agree with Artscallion on this. The customer was put into a bind and had to make a decision under duress caused by the OP. We don't know the customer's situation, she may not have had time to get another cake from Wal-mart, etc. for her event which was probably that day.
Is $65 worth going to court for especially when you don't have proof, anything in writing, etc? Not for me. Refund her the money and be done with it.
Just to be clear, the op not having pictures or a waiver of any sort really doesn't factor in as far as I'm concerned because we aren't the jury, and she didn't threaten to sue her anyway. We can only go by what the op says, and she said the cake was fine when it left. She said she explained the problem to the customer before she picked it up(I think, if I'm wrong, please correct me) so I'm not sure that qualifies as duress when she knew beforehand and actually had time to think about it.
So, if we're talking full disclosure before the offer was accepted, and assume that the op is telling the truth about the condition of the cake when it left her, does that make a difference in your opinion?? I'm going back and forth on this(my initial reaction was more about the threats than anything), so I'm just curious if I'm looking at it in a different way than some others.
I re-read the OP post. As I a understood it, she did not let the customer know ahead of time. She stated that before the customer had a chance to say anything, she offered her the discounted price. Put yourself in the customer's shoes...she is at the baker's getting ready to pick up her cake that she probably was looking forward to (anyone willing to pay get a custom made cake over a Wal-Mart cake usually is). Her event was probably that day, and she is needing a cake. Yes, she can go to Walmart and get a cake that they already had made and had them put a pooh figure on it, but what if she didn't have time? Who knows? That is making a decision under duress IMHO.
Is the OP telling the truth on the condition of the cake before it left, probably. However, she now has a very upset customer who is going to bad mouth her and do what she can to get a refund. As a business owner myself, this is one time I would give her the $65 and be rid of her.
She is still going to bad mouth you, at least that's the type of people they sound like. If you refund anything, I would still keep the cost of ingredients and explain to her since she took the cake she still has to pay for ingredients, if she didn't take it, you would have refunded the whole amount.
But she still accepted the cake as it was so she should still be willing to pay for it!!!! You don't take a product and expect to get it for free if you took it to begin with!
I love the analogy of chicken and steak. So you take the chicken in place of the steak... you still have to pay the price of the chicken. This situation.. she took the "altered" cake instead of the original design, she still has to pay the price of the altered cake.
But she still accepted the cake as it was so she should still be willing to pay for it!!!! You don't take a product and expect to get it for free if you took it to begin with!
Even if you get it home and find out that not only is it the wrong design, but it's also dry and falling over? Sure, you may be technically correct in what you say. But forcing her to pay for a cake that is the wrong design, falling over, cracked and dry, just because she agreed to the wrong design under duress, that again, you caused her, is not good customer service in my opinion. And she'll be much more apt to spread bad word of mouth about that than about the fact that you delivered a bad cake in the midst of a personal crisis.
On vacation, we reserved a certain convertible car for pickup at Airport A. They did not have the car we requested and substituted another car. The convertible top did not work for 3 days, and we had to go to Airport B, which was closer than Airport A, three times. On third visit, they gave us a working convertible.
We didn't get what we ordered, but we got a car to drive. The prime feature of the car (convertible top) did not work for 3 days. We were inconvenienced on our short vacation, going back and forth to the airport. We complained, and got a discount. But we did not get a free car for our vacation. We weren't entitled to one, and we didn't demand one.
But the cake was not received in that condition. That condition was a result of her ignoring the warning of the decorator to not transport it in the un-level back seat. The dry part I don't know about, if the decorator tortes her cakes then she should know whether or not it was dry.. next they will come back saying it was the wrong flavor and color too. She is fishing for money back.
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