I wonder what you'd say to a daughter, sister or niece if she came to you with this same story. Would you ask her if she provoked her abuser?
actually ---- yes, I would ask "and did you say anything to make him / her angry?" and I do it at least once a week and sometimes on a daily basis with the students I teach who all seem to just be spoiling for a fight. Not to mention counseling some to ditch their boy/girlfriend because the mental and emotional abuse he/she is inflicting
many many years of teaching and dealing with all kinds of blow ups have firmly validated that words are often the FIRST thing in any physical confrontation.
yes we do agree -- keep your mouth shut until you can talk calmly and rationally.
what are those old sayings?:
"Let thy speech be better than silence, or be silent." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus
"The stroke of the whip maketh marks in the flesh: but the stroke of the tongue breaketh the bones. Many have fallen by the edge of the sword: but not so many as have fallen by the tongue. [Ecclesiasticus 28:17 --18]" - Bible
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. [Colossians 4:6]" - Bible
I wonder what you'd say to a daughter, sister or niece if she came to you with this same story. Would you ask her if she provoked her abuser?
I wouldn't put it that way but I'd ask, "what happened?". I believe there's a difference between provoked and unprovoked physical contact. Nothing is ever black and white. There are two sides to every story. If it happens once, lets explore what happened. If it happens again, then that points to habit. How was that habit formed and what can we do to break it? Note that this can go either way: man or woman can be on the giving or receiving end.
So based on the information the OP provided you've concluded that she "provoked" him?
I'm not going to judge the OP's situation.
This is not about OP but in general yes, there are people who provoke a physical confrontation. Name calling, egging on, inflammatory body language, can just as easily make a person lose control and result in pushing, shoving, a slap to get them to shut up. Is this okay? No. Provoked or unprovoked, when an argument gets physical, there is clearly a problem that needs to be addressed. And it needs to be looked at individually. To argue about this in general terms is moot. There are so many other factors to consider besides a single incident.
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Speaking from my "been there, survived that" experience.....
To me, verbal is worse. Wounds from falling down, from being physically hit ... those heal and the bruises go away.
Verbal is forever in your mind, causing havok inside of yourself, peeling away at whatever self-respect and self-image you might have left.
Hard to explain .... you had to be there. It was 30 years ago. The mental bruise is still there.
Doug ... you are right.
I absolutely agree with Debi...my experience was 40 years ago and it is as fresh in my mind today as it was then. It has colored every aspect of my life. And it's still a constant effort to convince myself that I had done nothing wrong, nothing to deserve that. I KNOW rationally it was not my fault, that I didn't "ask for it."
But the doubt is always there "if only I had done this" or "if only I had not done that." Always there even though my abuser has been dead for all these years. His funeral was on my 17th birthday and I still believe it was the best birthday present I ever got. Ever.
There are so many other factors to consider besides a single incident.
It's never a single incident. It's never just suddenly one day a fist gets swung in your direction.
The one statement that makes me SO mad is "He'll only hit me once!" These people never understand the process. And it's a process. It's a step by step process that tears you down until the physical part is just the period at the end of the sentence. Yes, if you're a strong person who has not been conditioned, then yes, he'll only "hit you once". Unfortunately, that's not how it works.
You have to have been there to understand that. I hope that none of you can really understand that.
I wonder what you'd say to a daughter, sister or niece if she came to you with this same story. Would you ask her if she provoked her abuser?
actually ---- yes, I would ask "and did you say anything to make him / her angry?"
Perhaps a simple "what happened" would be better received.
There are so many other factors to consider besides a single incident.
It's never a single incident. It's never just suddenly one day a fist gets swung in your direction.
The one statement that makes me SO mad is "He'll only hit me once!" These people never understand the process. And it's a process. It's a step by step process that tears you down until the physical part is just the period at the end of the sentence. Yes, if you're a strong person who has not been conditioned, then yes, he'll only "hit you once". Unfortunately, that's not how it works.
You have to have been there to understand that. I hope that none of you can really understand that.
And that's exactly my point Debi. A relationship and abuse is never just about a single incident. It's a progression. Patterns emerge. Habits form. To look at one single incident is like peering through a keyhole. People won't see the big picture. People may think, "Well she was only defending herself" or "He totally deserved that" or "He shouldn't have done that". But what led to that point? What's been going on in their relationship that they feel this is the only way to get heard?
Though a relationship can't be judged on any one single incident, it should only take one incident of abuse to get the person/s involved thinking about personal safety, self-worth and the need to reevaluate the relationship.
I strongly believe that if a relationship reaches the point where one or both parties resort to physical confrontation, there is a big, deep problem that can only be resolved if both parties are willing to recognize the problem accept responsibility and work on it whatever it takes - counseling, trial separation, whatever. If either one refuses responsibility or denies the problem then walk away while you still have your dignity, your teeth, your bones, your life intact.
I've been blessed never to have experienced this first hand but I've worked with and listened to too many women (and men) to be familiar with the horror and distortion of abuse.
BEFORE any punches are thrown.....walk away. Period. ... Just walk away before it becomes physical.
and what of the post about the wife physically and verbally abusing the husband that insinuates that he is wrong to physically push her away when see attacks.
Hold on a minute Doug, I never once insinuated that my son was wrong for pushing his wife away to walk out! The only reason I even mentioned it was to ask if she, the op, was behaving in the same manner as my dil. Was she saying things to make him feel small or belittling him since she is at this time the bread winner. It is wrong to treat any spouse that way and think they should just stand there and take it! I have had to go pick my son up after he has called me crying, saying he just had to get out before he did something he wouldn't be able to take back. He has had his phone broken and thrown at him and called things I won't even repeat. But I also know that if he touched her and the cops came, he would be the one being hauled off. I believe he made the only choice he had and got out of there. Verbal abuse is wrong! And yes, there are women that know just which buttons to push. That being said, my dil is 5'2" and 100 lb. soaking wet, my son is 5'11" 170 lb. Her words cannot put him in the hospital. A physical confrontation between the two of them probably would put her there. I have raised my sons to know this is not the road they want to take.
Paulstonia, as a mother I can only imagine how painful it must be to see one of your kids treated this way.
I pray that your Son will have the strength to walk away from this relationship before this woman 'kills' his spirit. I'm tearing up just reading about it.......such a sad sad situation to be in.
Ok.... I yelled at him because he kept interupting me and i couldnt get a word in edge wise so he grabbed me and shoved me down he NEVER hit me! But it scared me enough to make me slap him to get him off me. That being said .... Yes I have looked back over the statements and checks are being written out to cash in large sums (at least for us) but I am not supposed to question that just smile and say ok? If he is going to spend it he needs to help earn it!!!! I dont think that is unreasonable.
We have been calmly comunicating and have decided to put a register out and record all checks in it alomg with a running balance so that we both know what is in the account and where it is going. If things still start comming up fishy then I guess we will have to go to seperats accounts
Thanks for the advice I am praying and waiting for confirmation from my Lord before I make any rash decisions. He has led me to it he will lead me through it all I have to do is believe. Thank you all for just listening and trying to help Love you all
So sorry mrspriss0912, I think we all got caught up in our own issues. I sure hope things work out for you. I've been in those arguements over who spent what and just where did it all go.They are never any fun. And thanks dkelly, it does get rough sometimes, but you can't tell your kids who to love you just have to be there to catch them sometimes.
OP, I would like to tell you something personal. My husband has been out of work for 2 years. We have a 12% unemployment rate in our area. Finding jobs is not easy. We have been married for 20 years, and never have we had any major arguments...until the last 2 years. Poor finances put a tremendous strain on a marriage. My husband feels degraded because noone wants to hire him because "he's too old", or "he's overweight", or whatever. Not one has ever told him that it was because he wasn't qualified to do the job. And yes, though it may be illegal, he has had people tell him that those were the reasons they weren't hiring him. He doesn't feel he's supporting his "role" as husband. Although I try to reinforce him by telling him everything is going to be ok, we'll make it through, it does heal that wound he bears. We have never ever laid hands on each other for any reason, that is not acceptable (by man or woman). Each has to be respectful of the other and think before speaking. If reasoned discussion can't be made then counciling is in order. I think you need to reevaluate the situation 1) What really sparked the argument in the first place? 2) Who was actually the aggressor? 3) Is this a pattern or a situation that got out of control and how are both of you going to keep the same situation from arising again. Ignoring that there is an issue will not make it go away. If you aren't sure you can, maybe you should consider speaking to someone disconnected from the situation (counselor, priest, pastor,etc). You don't give up on the marriage, because of something you both may have had a hand in causing, on the other hand, if this is pattern (the laying on of hands on each other) then you both may be better off apart. Just keep in mind it could be the stress he's under, that doesn't make what happened right. It just means you need to get some help making sure it never happens again.
I'm also a person who has "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt" as far as a abusive relationship. I was married to my ex for 16 years before it finally ended. He kept saying it wouldn't happen again and I had myself convinced that if I was a better wife, he wouldn't have a reason to get mad. Before ya know it, I'm the only one working, cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids ect. because I thought it would help stave off another fight or argument. Long story short, I walked out of that marriage with a broken nose and had to get 7 stitches in my face, and he did this in front of my small children and told them I deserved it. I swore it was the last beating I would take as I dialed 911.
It took me 16 years of marriage to realize that I couldn't change him, but I could change me and my situation. I had to show my boys that I was strong enough to get out, and that violence was never the answer.
I only wish someone would've talked to me like this way back when it was just a "push" here or there. I wouldn't have wasted all those taking the blame and trying to fix it. Its taken me a long time to trust anyone ever again.
I hope you realize sooner than I did.
Hi, From where I am from there is no such thing as divorce. What I have learned from my mother about love and marriage is you really should stick through thick and thin. My dad was a womanizer, casino addict and would suck up all my mom's financial resources. I never saw my dad hit my mom though. our Family really had HARD TIMES FINANCIALLY. Imagine 3 kids in college mom only one working. well, mom never gave up on my dad. Then my father got sick he got cancer after 4 surgical operations and cycle of radiation he got better. After 10 years of being such a selfish, self centered guy he is now becoming more of "wonderful DAD'' again. 
If my mom had given up on my dad years ago we will not be a happy family ever again. Just keep on loving and praying.
As a person who has been through two failed marriages, the first physically abusive and the second emotionally abusive, I can attest to the fact that no matter how clearly you can see the signs and no matter how clearly you realize the hopelessness of it all, you simply can't walk away until your heart tells you it's time.
And I've seen others in abusive or failing relationships, who see on some level the situation for what it is, just as outsiders do, yet are just not ready to move on. The day comes, and finally we do it.
I am not endorsing remaining in such a relationship or making excuses for staying or leaving, it is just my experience that all the logic and reasoning in the world make not one iota of difference to the heart.
I used to regret "time wasted" but in retrospect, it was not wasted at all... it was spent learning very valuable life lessons.
Good luck to the OP and others struggling to make their lives work out. I am hopeful that someday they will know the peace and serenity that a solid and healthy relationship can offer.
Spoekn word can do so much damage. Long term exposure wears anyone down to a feeling of worthlessness and sometimes self loathing. I see domestic violence every day...it starts with words...then a shove here and there...then fists...and many, many end in death. I've been too countless homicides that are the result of domestic violence. Children grow up seeing it...they often become abusers or victims themselves. Why are men blamed more often than women? Mostly because the majority of abusers are men. Women hit too, but face it guys...we've earned the title on this one. No matter who "pushes the buttons" or "Doesnt know when to stop"...you have to know when to walk away. Sometimes it's not easy, but everyone knows when to stop...they just choose not too. It's all about choices. Women...why dont they leave? Reasons abound, most that I hear "He'll change", "I love him" "I shouldnt have made him made, it's my fault." Top reason...Captivity...some just have no where else to go...held captive in the financial sense. He's kept her money, cut her off from friends and family. She's afraid he'll take the kids...the abuser has torn her down so much that she thinks she's worthless and no one else could possibly love her...she's flawed.
It's easy for anyone to say "He ever pushes me and Im out..." but when it actually happens...it's hard to do.
Never pass judgement...just be there when someone needs help.
I'll listen to all the reasons he tells me about why he beat her...and then I'll lock that ass up.[/b]
Dale...
Wow your insight is dead on, Yes I feel captive I feel like he has to know every move I make and this is not what I singed up for. He is telling me he wants it to be a joint effeort from now on. I just dont know if I can believe him I am giving it a chance but if no positive changes are made or he fall back into the same habbits I am outta there. I see myself becomming one of the women you described and that is not who I want to be by no means.
Thanks for the post it has helped
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