I think it is kinda similar to the breast feeding debate. If you don't breast feed you are "a bad mother", if you don't bake from scratch you are " a bad baker" (please notice the quotation marks, nothing against either).
OMG, I can totally relate to this one. When I was pregnant with my first child it was discovered through blood work that I had needed a *measles* booster and had never received it. Since it was dangerous to get the vaccine while I was pregnant I had to wait until she was born to have it.
I received the vaccination the very next day after her birth but was told that I could not nurse because of it.
I cannot tell you the *looks of disapproval* I received from other *nursing* mothers when they asked if I was nursing her. It made me feel like the worst mother!
I don't think people realize how cruel they can be sometimes, even when they don't speak.
So I agree with you.........this debate is very similar to the mix/scratch debate.
I also think that baking a box cake and 'doctoring it' many times is more expensive. The only scratch recipe that I have that is more expensive is my dark chocolate fudge. My yellow box cake is much more expensive than my scratch cake. Both taste delicious, but I prefer the box version any day over the scratch.
I have often wondered that. What do you use that makes it more expensive because I find that my butter alone cost me more than the box mix?
I find that I will have to raise my prices for my cakes just because of the amount of butter that I use.
I use butter in my yellow cake.. both scratch and doctored. I use vanilla beans in both. I use flour and sugar in both (obv. more flour and sugar in the scratch cake), eggs in both and I use sour cream in both. In addition to these ingredients, I also use coffee creamer, pudding, and a yellow cake mix for the boxed cake. Its a few dollars more per boxed cake.
I love scratch yellow cakes as well as doctored box cakes. I grew up on box cakes and they remind me of my mom's cooking. I attribute this to why I prefer them.
I tell my customers I bake from a box mix as well as scratch. Sometimes they ask to try both (like in my yellow when I offer either a box or a scratch), and it's about 75 box/25 scratch w/ my customers. I find the older adults to rather scratch, and the younger crowd to prefer box.
I'm just happy to bake what pleases the customer!
I think it is kinda similar to the breast feeding debate. If you don't breast feed you are "a bad mother", if you don't bake from scratch you are " a bad baker" (please notice the quotation marks, nothing against either).
OMG, I can totally relate to this one. When I was pregnant with my first child it was discovered through blood work that I had needed a *measles* booster and had never received it. Since it was dangerous to get the vaccine while I was pregnant I had to wait until she was born to have it.
I received the vaccination the very next day after her birth but was told that I could not nurse because of it.
I cannot tell you the *looks of disapproval* I received from other *nursing* mothers when they asked if I was nursing her. It made me feel like the worst mother!
I don't think people realize how cruel they can be sometimes, even when they don't speak.
So I agree with you.........this debate is very similar to the mix/scratch debate.
My favorite saying on this one:
Breast VS. Bottle: Who cares? In two years you'll be giving them french fries and soda.
We need to come up with one for scratch vs. box....maybe something about how it's all the same once it comes out the other....oh, ick, never mind!!
I'll think about it...Hmmm...we also had no antibiotics, chemotherapy and other forms of modern medicine. I don't think that lab-produced food additives are increasing the human lifespan. Last thing I heard, the generation of kids who are young now are going to have shorter lifespans than their parents for the first time in a long time, mainly (so say the health experts) because of the crappy diet that most of us have.
I don't think lab-produced additives are doing much to SHORTEN lifespans, either; too much fat and cholesterol are too much fat and cholesterol whether they're free-range and organic or not. Cake's not going to be good for you no matter WHAT you do to it--it's too much in the way of carbs and fats and sugars even if you use whole wheat flour, free-range eggs, fresh-churned butter, and so on. And last *I* heard, THAT was the complaint of the "health experts," not the chemical additives in the food.
I have been keeping up with this thread and reading everyone's thoughts on the subject. If I find a scratch recipe that I can make that is awesome, then I will use it. If not, I think I'll doctor my cakes with some of the suggestions I have read here on CC. And if anyone asks I'll definitely tell them the truth. That it is the best cake ever! If anyone has a foolproof recipe( me being the fool) I'd love to try it!
You guys rock!
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
~Carl Sagan
I saw this quote and saved it. I knew it would only be a couple days until someone YET AGAIN posted a scratch vs mix thread to use it, lmao.
This reminds me of the debate that if all people were bred into a multiracial people and were all the same color that it still wouldn't end discrimination, because humans will always find another superficial way to gain a sense of superiority.
black vs white
poor vs rich
straight vs gay
theism vs atheism
and...
scratch vs mix
lol...we need to get over ourselves.
I hate that friggin' quote... (nothing against you miss maryj... I gotz much love for you and the drama llama ).
I hope that people don't think that all the scratch bakers walk around thinking they are better than everyone who doesn't do the same. I certainly don't.
I hate that friggin' quote... (nothing against you miss maryj... I gotz much love for you and the drama llama ).
I hope that people don't think that all the scratch bakers walk around thinking they are better than everyone who doesn't do the same. I certainly don't.
I am now officially a scratcher too, lol. I just laughed when I saw that quote, because of the ol' scratch debate.
I think Carl Buddy got it right.
"Scratch" is a state of mind in caking I think. "Scratch" is the phantom baker who doesn't really exist--the one I used to want to be. When I first read the Cake Bible I had planned on doing all scratch but there was so much attitude in there I turned away from the book and the concept of scratch.
Scratch baking is a certain state of mind to me it's not for real.
I could not call me a scratch caker and use store boght ingredients and I use all of the ingredients I do not discriminate against any of them.
The missionary out on the distant island frying tortilla chips for her family from corn she planted, picked & ground--now that's scratch.
I hope that people don't think that all the scratch bakers walk around thinking they are better than everyone who doesn't do the same.
Again this quote like PinkZ's is intriguing by it's emphaiss on self worth. Scratch baking impacts self esteem in some of us. This is a cultural, societal, interpersonal comment not anything to do with the quality of baking.
I'm glad there are some out there like that. I think that if box mix users are to be admonished to declare that they use mixes then I think 'scratch' bakers need to admit they use store bought ingredients like the rest of us or they're not really scratch--just wannabes.
How about our food color? That can be made from scratch. Fondant for sure can be. We could grind our own powdered sugar (food processor)from crystaline sugar. We can make gum paste from scratch--watch out we're gonna have to use the gums some think are toxic waste in the cake mix.
I mean you (corporate you including moi) think you're a scratch baker because you fold your eggs in separate and measure baking powder? No way, Jose.
The word scratch is a marketing tool pure and simple.
My favorite saying on this one:
Breast VS. Bottle: Who cares? In two years you'll be giving them french fries and soda.
We need to come up with one for scratch vs. box....maybe something about how it's all the same once it comes out the other....oh, ick, never mind!!
LOL!! Oh true, so true!!
maryjsgirl............a member here has that quote in her signature line......can't remember who it is though.
I guess this is just one of those great debates that will continue long after all of us have left this earth.
I do find it amusing though that the point that I would assume would be debated (difference in taste, texture etc.) is NOT the point that some of you are focusing on at all.
No, SOME of you are actually trying to debate the DEFINITION of *scratch* Now THAT'S hilarious!
I think a couple of members here missed their calling.......you guys shouldn't be bakers/decorators, you should be litigators. (I'm sure the pay is better too!)
Well, off to work, hope you have fun with this great debate!
I offer scratch and boxed. 99.9% of my brides like the boxed vanilla. I don't tell them which is which so a blind taste test so to speak. My boxed of course is doctored, so not a straight box cake. I think it is the familiarity of the taste and texture that makes them choose that. I have better luck with them picking scratch chocolate, but then it is too expensive for them.
I started out only doing scratch, now everything but my standard vanilla and chocolate cakes are scratch.
As with all things, there are two sides to every story, and many ways to accomplish the same goal.
We use doctored box mixes. Never had a complaint yet! Actually, I've never had anyone ask if we bake from scratch or use a mix. We never use just a plain mix, but always add extra stuff to make it better - sour cream, pudding mix, white chocolate, etc.
It's whatever you prefer and what works best for you and your customers!
I think Carl took it a little too far... and so do you K8... but everyone has their own opinions and you know what they say about those.
I don't think you have to grow your own wheat and steep beets for red food coloring to BAKE from scratch. I do make my own fondant 80% of the time (though it's getting hard to keep up since it's been getting busier here). I think some people like to broaden their definition of it all to perhaps get rid of the feelings (however self imposed they may be) of guilt (or whatever you want to call it) over using a mix. Some people don't know how/don't want to/whatever reason they have bake without a mix and whoopty friken doo who cares can we just move on and stop trying to take away any sense of accomplishment baking from scratch can hold for a person? It's hard to do... some people have taken the time (a long time and lots of ingredients... aka money... to do so) give them some friggin' credit. Does it make me better than anyone? No, but damn it it was hard work to get to the point I am at... saying that I don't really bake from scratch because I don't grind my own wheat or raise my own cows or grown my own sugar cane is LUDICROUS.
This gets *SO* old... You can go as far as you want... sure grow your wheat, but what if you amend your soil? Does that not count? Give me a break.
And of course this will be taken as "Oh here she goes showing her true colors" but it's not like that... I'm done trying to be reasonable with these threads.
And this isn't a debate... it's a bunch of opinions...
Debating involves arguing points that are backed up by solid facts... there's none of that going on here on either side.
arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - after reading 7 pages i can't remember what it was i had to say -
Oh yeah, i remember.
I fully understand and know that the wheat crops are sprayed - thus adding chemicles to the end flour product i buy
I also know and understand that flurides are added to our drinking water before it comes out my tap - even if filtered.
And i also aknowledge that the bag my sugar comes in, was treated - with chemical colours and cleaning products.
And lets not forget - the free range eggs i might buy still have traces of antibiotics - otherwise the 15000 laying hens on one property wouldn't see past 5 months.
And if a packet states *added vitamins and minerals* - don't think that they aren't chemically enhanced/manmade - Pure vitamins and minerals disipate - so of course they have to be *man made*
Anywayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
All that matters is that..........You enjoy what you do .
Never let anyone stand above you because you bake from a mix &
Never stand over anyone because you bake from scratch....*cough*
Beat - Whip - Stir - Cream - Scrape - Pour....... as long as you are doing it because you love it and have a passion - and every now and then someone says - *thankyou for that beautiful tasty cake*............
just enjoy.
11.47pm ..........*yawn* ............ time for bed.
Bluehue.
I have been working this out in my head all this time (since Rose's book)with my own phobias and biases. I get it now. I get me now. I get the syndrome now--how it affects moi and why.
This has been my personal therapy with myself. Which is why I am always so fascinated by it. I'm always thinking why do we allow this to define our inside ourselves?
Nobody takes away a sense of accomplishment from you unless you give it. It's great that you do what you do, Jeanne--how could I take that from you or anybody. I wish I could have a business like yours but my county does not allow it without full blown commercial overhead that I'm not willing to comply with.
"Scratch" is a real good tag line for a cake business, a marketing tool--I'd just like to admonish scratch bakers as some scratch bakers like to admonish cake mix bakers to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Naw, I don't really care what you say. But I will admit I am enjoying the shoe being on the other foot a little. But you'll forgive me woncha?
I got it figured out for me now.
<cupping hands around mouth> Remember The Twinkies!!!!
And this isn't a debate... it's a bunch of opinions...
Debating involves arguing points that are backed up by solid facts... there's none of that going on here on either side.
Do you really wanna go here? (asked calmly and incredulously)
I was very gentle in my conclusions.
I am debating facts. Scratch baking at the least implies using not ready made products. You can't have it both ways.
Tell yah what--I don't want to go here because I'm not after blood.
I don't want to go anywhere K8... nowhere at all. It's a battle that will never be won.
This is where it ends for me because blood is not on my menu either. Have fun.
<cupping hands around mouth> Remember The Twinkies!!!!
Y'know like 'Remember The Alamo?'
But we're loosing it a little here--I think to get the right lilt it should be
"Remember the Twinkie-mos"
I don't want to go anywhere K8... nowhere at all. It's a battle that will never be won.
This is where it ends for me because blood is not on my menu either. Have fun.
I resolved it for myself at last.
I'm not conceding to your ideas... I'm just tired of the "debate". I don't live for this like you seem to. I'm happy with the crap that I do and I'm okay with with whatever crap everyone else does... nuff sed.
NOW I'm done...
Once again, when nothing positive comes from topics, we're forced to lock them. I am lnow locking this topic. Thanks to all who tried to keep on a positive note!
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