Home Based In "no Home Licensed" State? Anyone?
Business By staramystar Updated 12 Jan 2009 , 1:55pm by FromScratch
How I combat the whole "I'm going to a cheaper baker"
I have a handout I provide all clients who are first timers as well as a copy of it on my wall in a frame...
Things to ask your baker, especially if you are having your cake delivered to a venue for event.
It goes on to list things to ask your baker about like a business license, liability insurance, etc and why it's important to be sure they have it.
I never mention "hobby bakers" or "illegal cake businesses" because it's not just home bakers who don't carry liability insurance/let it lapse if they can't make the payment etc.
I've had a few gals read it over and then ask me my very own 10 questions and then ask if they can keep their copy. I encourage them to take a blank for copies and say "take a couple if you would like in the event you have other bakeries or bakers to price. That way you can compare answers at the end of the day and pick who's a best fit for you.
Sometimes they say "no thanks" and other times thank me for professionally realizing that they are shopping around and ask for 5 or 6 blank copies. I've had great success with this as a legal home baker.
Customers don't know to ask aobut it, and some times home bakers don't know they need to be legal. They just see it as selling "just a cake". This educates everyone with out pointing fingers or standing on a soap box.
I've even had a couple home bakers contact me through those forms and ask for help in getting legal. Thankfully they have become great cake friends and not a competitor but as a resource when one or the other is overbooked.
In your original post you clearly expressed that renting a kitchen WAS NOT an option.....
I am in Florida and I know I got my wedding cake from a woman in her home. I also know she made her cakes in her home, but my reception site recommend her. Is there any decorators out there that sell there cakes from home without a license? If I start a business from home is anyone really going to come fine me for doing it? Help! I really could use the advice because there is no way I have the money to rent a kitchen or re-do my house to be licensed.
Now that it appears you're not receiving the positive responses you expected for your unlicensed venture, you're suggesting you were unaware that you could rent a kitchen 
When in fact you had considered and dismissed this option!
I didn't mean a business was a luxury. I meant being able to afford a separate space for me to cook right now for me is. You shouldn't judge people when you have no idea of their circumstances. And I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't very hard work to get to have your own place to cook. I'm just saying it is something that I cannot afford and I am just looking for a little help here on what others have experienced with this and ways to help me like renting a kitchen.
NOT JUDGMENT!
Soliciting validation or encouragement for a course of action which you recognize as not being above board is unreasonable (or wishful thinking):
Home based in "no home licensed" state? Anyone?
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staramystar -- since you asked for advice -- there is a lot of risk in being unlicensed, and from what I understand, the fines if you are caught are substantial. And yes, as you can see, you might get turned in. So my advice would be to not do it. I was considering the same thing, but having read a few threads on this topic, I became aware of many issues that I hadn't even been aware of which has discouraged me.
You are really getting sound advice.
I'm in the same situation. My state allows home baking but my county does not. You have to have commercially zoned property. Period end of the world.
What you can do is make cakes for friends and family and best of all you can hone skills. You can pick any one area that intrigues you and zone in and make it happen. Then when your circum$tances change you will be ever the more ready for the work load.
Lots of people fly under the radar and maybe you thought you might catch their ear here but alas, they do fly under the radar for a reason huh.
K8memphis...
No scare tactic at all...just TRUTH. The key word in my statement is "POSSIBLE". I didn't say it was a given. And yes we all know that licensed kitchens can and have given food born illnesses to the public. But still, using an unlicensed baker raises the possibility due to no regulation! At least if a licensed kitchen is operating poorly they are shut down until they fix the issue. No such regulation happens in a home kitchen that is unlicensed...how do you know that temperatures are being maintained properly, that the equipment being used is operating correctly and safely...you don't. You don't know if that home has pets, pets (ie:cats) that might jump up on tables and countertops tracking germs everywhere.
Again your statement implies that I should bite my tounge, cowar to the customer's claims that Suzy homebaker only charges $1.50 per slice. Sorry I won't do it. Believe what you want, that doesn't make it so.
Flying under the radar for a reason? I guess I don't get how anyone can justify flying under the radar. I once thought about selling cakes out of my home. Once I found out it was illegal, I immediately focused on the business aspect instead, and refused to sell cakes for profit. I busted my 
researching Florida law, edcuating myself on how to start a business, and determined ways to get the capital to start my business. Instead of justifying why you have to operate illegally, you should be educating yourself. If you think flying under the radar will help your legal business get off the ground, it won't. Running a legal business is an entirely different ballgame. If you think that your clientele will follow you to your legal business, more times than not they don't. They will move on to the next home baker. Just because you have a home based business means very little when you make the transition into being a legal business. In the wedding cake industry, brides move on and are usually a one-time client. There are some that are repeat customers, but more times than not you won't see that person again. The client base you had at home won't be enough to pay the bills. You have to be prepared to constantly market your business. Two days after I was legal, I hit my first bridal show. If you want to be prepared and have the luxury of starting your own business, then use this time to educate yourself, plan, and prepare for what is to come. The business aspect is what is going to make or break your business, not the clienele you bring from your home-based business. You can perfect your craft by practicing without selling your cakes to the public. There's nothing wrong with making dummy wedding cakes instead that you can pratice, make a great portfolio, and keep some of those cakes for your future showroom.
I would never turn anyone in, but a luxury this is not. Using my entire savings and owing money is not a luxury nor will it ever be. If you see that you aren't going to have the capital for a few years, then get a job at a cake business learning the ropes and doing what you love until that can happen or as I said, use the time to prepare. There's really no excuse to do it illegally. And food poisoning can happen no matter how clean you think you keep your kitchen or don't have pets. If you've taken food sanitation classes, then you know how easily infections and toxins can be transmitted at home. It made me cringe to think of someone baking out of their home. One of the questions on the exam pertained to baking out of the home, and it made me think of all those people who think it's ok. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's definitely an eye opener. Just because your cake is at a reception venue with catered food doesn't mean you're immune from being determined as the cause of food poisoning. Not only will any leftover food be tested, but the caterer's kitchen and YOUR kitchen will be tested as well. The experts will be able to determine where the poisoning came from. If you think they can't trace it to you, you're wrong!
And if you do get turned in, it can be disastrous for your business. A woman I know operated for quite a while unlicensed. Her business was growing rapidly. She had like 3 or 4 cakes due one weekend and just a day or so before they were due got a knock on her door from the department of food and agriculture demanding her to stop any production she had and she was not allowed to proceed with even one more cake until she was fully licensed. She had to call all of her customers for that weekend and try explain why she couldn't fulfill their orders. Very unhappy customers. She said in the long run though she was glad she was turned in and forced to become legal because she was able to grow her business quicker after becoming licensed because she wasn't hiding or trying to fly under the radar.
K8memphis...
No scare tactic at all...just TRUTH. The key word in my statement is "POSSIBLE". I didn't say it was a given. And yes we all know that licensed kitchens can and have given food born illnesses to the public. But still, using an unlicensed baker raises the possibility due to no regulation! At least if a licensed kitchen is operating poorly they are shut down until they fix the issue. No such regulation happens in a home kitchen that is unlicensed...how do you know that temperatures are being maintained properly, that the equipment being used is operating correctly and safely...you don't. You don't know if that home has pets, pets (ie:cats) that might jump up on tables and countertops tracking germs everywhere.
Again your statement implies that I should bite my tounge, cowar to the customer's claims that Suzy homebaker only charges $1.50 per slice. Sorry I won't do it. Believe what you want, that doesn't make it so.
Cakesdivine, you are welcome to read anything you want into my statement. And you are.
See cower means making the enemy less likely to attack. If you use that idea (that is not referenced in my post) then you see unlicensed bakers as your enemy, someone to fight, that they are the aggressors to you. And maybe they are just not at the cake consult you gettin' me?
What I'm trying to get across is that the mere mention of poison at a cake consult is hurting your business. It's not playing well with others in so many ways not the least person is yourself.
Sure we all risk food poison anywhere.
We all risk getting hit on the head with a falling plane.
Pointing out such an egregious possibility as a potential food poisoning when someone is trying to purchase a cake to be the focal point for the most momentous day in their life is counter productive, no?
Some cakers bring up all kinds of what ifs in those bloated contracts that make buying a house look simple. If there's a car wreck, if my kids get measles if the venue doesn't have the air on, if the table's not steady, if if if if if if--initial here initial here initial there...
Kinda sets a raw edge on the deal.
I would never do it.
Screw all the nastiness--nasty stuff pokes it's nasty head up often enough. I don't need to point to the possibilities to run my business.
Please stop shourting at me. Thanks.
I want the bride to know I'm taking care of everything for her--she doesn't need to worry about anything. I am a professional. I am well referenced. I can do anything she wants. She's gonna be so happy. I see her vision and raise her (like a poker game) my 30 some years experience and a long long line of good press and good vibes.
Tell the bride you are insured-yes. Explaining in detail why you have insurance-no.
CarolynG's response upthread is a very good one.
Keep it positive, gf.
Flying under the radar for a reason? I guess I don't get how anyone can justify flying under the radar.
Long before the internet cake board was born I tried to get legal in my home. It's not possible in any way. Previous to that finding I did cakes for people from my home.
Since I could not become legal without a commercial enterprise, I left my cake decorator position in a bakery and got a job in a call center. During the training I didn't even know what a (computer) mouse was. Clueless. I worked my way up to supervisor.
I've had my own tea-room, I've opened a bookstore that I now manage to include from dusting the shelves to learning how to do the accounting. <insert the 'my eyes are crossing' smilie face>
You too can read anything you want to into my post. In no way, not in that post nor in my 57 years do I justify being illegal.
My inference is that people fly under the radar because it is illegal and they don't want people to know. Hello. That posting it on the world wide web will create a sensation. Not to mention most people do start out that way.
I'd like to thank you for asking what I meant.
If you've taken food sanitation classes, then you know how easily infections and toxins can be transmitted at home. It made me cringe to think of someone baking out of their home. One of the questions on the exam pertained to baking out of the home, and it made me think of all those people who think it's ok. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's definitely an eye opener.
I have to say, that was going a bit over the line for me. It's perfectly OK to bake out of your home (as a legal business) if you follow various food hygiene processes - I doubt it would be legal in so many places to do so if it weren't "OK"! I have a legal home kitchen. I have to have food hygiene certification and have "House Rules" in place which outline amongst other things my cleaning schedule with industry strength antibactericidal cleaners and food separation parctices. My kitchen is disinfected before I start working and after I finish every day and has a deep clean every week. I am regularly inspected and my processes checked. You're no more likely to catch food poisoning out of my kitchen than a commercial one. It's a bit offensive to the rest of us legal home bakers to deem us "not OK".
Looks like the old can of worms has been opened again. 
I hate the statement that opening a business is a luxury. No, it is not! Working from home is a luxury-no rent, no taxes-who do you think keeps more money in their pockets?
A real business is real hard work that never ends if you want to stay afloat. Working from home, you can take what orders you want, when you want, take a week off...put your feet up and watch TV while making gumpaste roses.
Now, I do think the rules should be changed. We have another thread going on that subject. So, write a letter to your congressman.
Bonnie, I think metrocakes was referring to unlicensed and uninspected kitchens, not legal home kitchens like yours. You have the safeguards in place to insure a properly prepared food product and I believe metro was referring to those who are untrained in proper food handling and have no inspections or safeguards in place like you do. 
I hate the statement that opening a business is a luxury. No, it is not! Working from home is a luxury-no rent, no taxes-who do you think keeps more money in their pockets?
I just wanted to say that not all of use who work from home fit into this category. I have a licensed home kitchen that I work from. I do not have to pay rent you are right. However, I have to pay the increased amount on all my utilities, I have to pay for my equipment and supplies, I have to pay for my liability insurance, and I have to pay taxes. The money doesn't just go straight into my pocket.
I just wanted to say that not all of use who work from home fit into this category.
Bonnie and Jenn are making good points here, gang.
Is the term "home baker" being used, here, when what is being discussed is the "unlicensed" baker? If so, I side with the offended licensed bakers who just happen to also work out of his/her home, because it does seem to just lump everyone all together.
The topic is regarding becoming a legal baker, and some home bakers ARE legal.
Perhaps we can use the term "unlicensed" baker to avoid offending those who have taken the necessary steps to become legal.
I hate the statement that opening a business is a luxury.
The op did not say that. She meant it's a luxury for her meaning it's too expensive. It's an expression. If you can't have something you want you say it's a luxury. Often luxuries are out of our grasp. It's a colloquialism.
It's luxurious to her. It would be the epitome of luxury to her because she cannot afford it. It is very valuable to her. She desires it strongly and she can't have it right now. It's a sparkling carrot hanging out of her reach. There's a great gulf fixed.
I think the op is getting good advice and getting a bad time too from some of us. When most of us started out at home.
I just wanted to say that not all of use who work from home fit into this category.
Bonnie and Jenn are making good points here, gang.
Is the term "home baker" being used, here, when what is being discussed is the "unlicensed" baker? If so, I side with the offended licensed bakers who just happen to also work out of his/her home, because it does seem to just lump everyone all together.
The topic is regarding becoming a legal baker, and some home bakers ARE legal.
Perhaps we can use the term "unlicensed" baker to avoid offending those who have taken the necessary steps to become legal.
The irony here is that the rules and regulations are not the same from sea to shining sea so it's easy to covet thy neighbor's bakery be it at home or otherwise.
Just for the record, I did not start out doing cakes at home. How 'bout them apples? I started out in a for really bakery in a college and one of the students came to me to do her cake and the rest is history. That first cake was scary looking. Probably several others back then were pretty scary looking but I was on solid legal ground.
Just for the record, I did not start out doing cakes at home. How 'bout them apples? I started out in a for really bakery in a college and one of the students came to me to do her cake and the rest is history. That first cake was scary looking. Probably several others back then were pretty scary looking but I was on solid legal ground.
No wait I take that back. I could have been on solid legal ground. But I never paid taxes on the income nor had a license. The facility was approved--I did not start out in my home. But this was way back before the dawn of my brain.
Jenn-i wish that could be the case here in TX. I think it would be SO much safer for consumers and bakers if we could have insurance, be regulated, etc. It would be a wonderful thing!
I'm glad you havew the opportunity to do that. I wish I could.
If you've taken food sanitation classes, then you know how easily infections and toxins can be transmitted at home. It made me cringe to think of someone baking out of their home. One of the questions on the exam pertained to baking out of the home, and it made me think of all those people who think it's ok. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's definitely an eye opener.
I have to say, that was going a bit over the line for me. It's perfectly OK to bake out of your home (as a legal business) if you follow various food hygiene processes - I doubt it would be legal in so many places to do so if it weren't "OK"! I have a legal home kitchen. I have to have food hygiene certification and have "House Rules" in place which outline amongst other things my cleaning schedule with industry strength antibactericidal cleaners and food separation parctices. My kitchen is disinfected before I start working and after I finish every day and has a deep clean every week. I am regularly inspected and my processes checked. You're no more likely to catch food poisoning out of my kitchen than a commercial one. It's a bit offensive to the rest of us legal home bakers to deem us "not OK".
Thank you Indydebi!!! I was referring to illegal and uninspected businesses, not legal home businesses. Let's not confuse the issue here. There was no need to go down that path. So let me clarify, illegal baker!!! I have no issue with the legal home baker. I wish I could have a second kitchen in my home to run my business. Unfortunately, my HOA does not permit home businesses and would not authorize the addition of a second kitchen to my home.
Let's not confuse the issue here. There was no need to go down that path. So let me clarify, illegal baker!!! I have no issue with the legal home baker.
OK, that's clearer. I like Indydebi's suggestion of using the term "unlicensed baker" as the use of the broad terms "home baker" or "home kitchen" covers those of us who are legal as well as those of us who aren't. Most posts make it clear as to which they are talking about but your post appeared to be very broad with no distinction.
In no way did I intend to offend anyone. As I said in my initial post, only you can decide what is right for you. I'm stating my position based on professional knowledge and experience. I had so much to say in my post that I rambled a little and didn't choose the best wording and should have specificed uninspected, illegal. I'm not judging anyone; that was not my intent. I offered alternatives to baking illegally, and there are other options available. I know because it's the route I chose to take. We all have differing opinions, and I respect the opinions of those who choose to bake illegaly. It just happens that I disagree and choose to do it the right way. I would never offer ill will on anyone that makes the decision to operate without a license. However, when a topic such as this is presented for discussion, I will offer my advice not because I'm legal or because I think I'm better. It's to prevent fellow CC's from making a decision that could prove to be catastrophic. It only takes getting caught once, and it can happen when you least expect it. As I'm sure is the case of a majority of the legal bakers on here, I do not want to see anyone get in trouble. Hence, I'm offering advice that may not be popular but needs to be put out there.
*sigh* First I would like to say that I have learned A LOT from everyone here on CC and this is usually the first place that I even come to for help and/or advice. It is amazing to be able to post a question/fear/concern/disaster or whatever and to have that support available.
Now, having said that, and certainly hoping NOT to have my head chewed off like I have previously read, I have to say that not everyone may know a proper way of wording a question (or whatever). Maybe I am tired, but I really did not see any reason for a lot of the, dare I say, 'bashing' that was done to the original poster. I WAS happy to see some posts that basically stated, "these are the reasons why I wouldn't continue to work illegally from the home" and those were the most helpful to me. And I am sorry there were more attacks than just important information.
As an illegal - I hate being that. Most of what I do I honestly can't charge for because I just feel really uncomfortable being illegal and perhaps getting caught. I don't like it. I have looked into being legal and it requires me basically getting a commercial space. I have looked for a place to rent and had no luck. I can't afford to do that. Not now. And definitely not with a one year old. And then there is a possibility that we might be moving. So I hope that it will be to a state where I can have a legally home based biz. I knew about kitchen inspections, but not about the cleaning regiment that is involved and so forth. So that was constructive to me.
LUXURY - I can't imagine that it is a luxury to being sending checks all over the place for bills and the financial debt that is involved with having a commercial business. HOWEVER it would be a luxury for me to be able to get out of the house away from 3 kids and work on cakes and cookies. It would be a luxury for me to have that time and that know-how. Is it the dictionary definition of luxury? Perhaps not. But there are many interpretations of the word. Does that mean that I am going to be insulted and never wish to post something here again? I certainly hope not.
CAROLYNGWEN - I love your idea. It is creative, not vindictive. Educational, but not condescending (spelling?). Would you be willing to share that flyer with me?
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As one who has posted many questions here on CC, I hope I never word something incorrectly and be so attacked. I don't like confrontations.
Well, I want to say Thank you for sharing all your opinions. This couldn't have come at a better time!
I received an email today that was asking for me to be a "home baker" for a local birthday party venue. Home baking is not legal here and so I was able to "gracefully" warn them about the risks of their pursuit. I have also been an "illegal" by doing cakes for my family and friends with a small reimbursment from them. I'm committing here and now that I won't sell another cake until I'm legal!!
THANK YOU FOR BEING SO HONEST. Now I'll try to be. 
I understand about legal, illegal, licenced, unlicensed. Here in this little midwestern town, you can only get licensed as an in home baker if you have a separate commercial kitchen in your home. For most of us in small town usa, we cannot afford to renovate to put a commercial kitchen in the house and most of the homes here are small to begin with.
However, most of the home cake bakers here are not licensed and the health dept here allows it. I called to see if I could get a food handlers license and the health dept told me that I had to be a full fledged licensed commercial business in order to get one, but then told me that they know some other people who do cakes and catering out of their homes. Basically, they told me...it's okay. Do what you do.
I said that to say this...it all depends on where you live. some places will allow you to be what some of you have said "illegal", I prefer unlicensed and some places won't. The venues around here all use unlicensed cake decorators as referrals because there are only 2 licensed places here in my town and they are both grocery stores. So I would say, just because you're not licensed does not mean you are working under the radar. Check with your local health dept and see what the stipulations are. Who knows...you could actually be okay.
quote="psalms1"] Check with your local health dept and see what the stipulations are. Who knows...you could actually be okay.[/quote]
The Health Department is just one of many departments you deal with though when running a fully licensed and legal business.
And you will only be "okay" with them until someone reports you for a voilation and then you will find you suddenly won't be "okay" anymore.
You still are not claiming taxes which the IRS doesn't take kindly.
You still don't have liability insurance. In the event someone trips and falls while taking a cake to the car and asks you to have your homeowners insurance cover the accident.
You still don't have your city/county/state business license and if they find out those will be additional fines for operating under their jurisdictions with out them.
I just wanted to say that not all of use who work from home fit into this category.
Bonnie and Jenn are making good points here, gang.
Is the term "home baker" being used, here, when what is being discussed is the "unlicensed" baker? If so, I side with the offended licensed bakers who just happen to also work out of his/her home, because it does seem to just lump everyone all together.
The topic is regarding becoming a legal baker, and some home bakers ARE legal.
Perhaps we can use the term "unlicensed" baker to avoid offending those who have taken the necessary steps to become legal.
Thank you Indydebi for clarifying that I was starting to get angry with all the talk about home bakers being dirty and giving food poisoning. Some of us are licensed, insured, and inspected
So here's my two cents for the OP. Yes you can operate illegally and sell cakes out of your home because you don't have the money to get legal. I believe that was the response you were looking for. Nobody can tell you what you can or can't do. America is a free country and you have the right to operate illegally if you choose to. I think that what everyone was trying to get at was if you do this you are risking losing everything by doing that. Since you stated that you don't have the money to open a business legally then I will assume that you would be in a very bad place if you were forced to pay thousands of dollars in fines or if you were sued for even more because someone got sick from one of your products. That's a risk that only you can decide if you are willing to take and I believe that the business owners on here were only trying to make you aware of that. They aren't telling you can't operate illegally because again, you can if you want to. Just know that you are taking a very big risk by doing so.
I'm with everyone about being legal and the risks and all that... but I do want to say that being legal with your local health department has nothing to do with being legal with the feds (IRS). I paid my correct and fully disclosed taxes from day 1 while local legality took a bit longer. The IRS does not care a bit where you operate from and doesn't talk to states about it.
I'm with everyone about being legal and the risks and all that... but I do want to say that being legal with your local health department has nothing to do with being legal with the feds (IRS). I paid my correct and fully disclosed taxes from day 1 while local legality took a bit longer. The IRS does not care a bit where you operate from and doesn't talk to states about it.
yep ... same here.
WOW... what a thread!!! Does anyone know if you can have a licesed home kitchen in california?
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