It's not just our industry.

My father-in-law started his own auto repair garage about 60 years ago. Talk about expensive!!! Computer equipment that is mandatory simply because cars are just a rolling computer these days .... the lifts to put the cars on so you can work under them. The environment laws that require expense for conformance for proper disposal of oils and other car fluids. The insurance not just for his equipment, his building and the standard business insurances, but also insurance that covers your DVD player if someone breaks into his garage and steals it from your car.

yet he has to compete with Joe Backyard who works out of his home garage with no overhead, no insurance, no environmental fees and no landfills charges. As leahs said, the playing field isn't even. And that's partially why we have laws in place and licensing requirements.

Starting any business is hard .... food industry, any industry dealing with environmental issues, and others are practically all catch-22: you can't start it until you have a clientele and you can't get a clientele until you start a business.

Amberlicious, I disagree with you. I can't charge more just because I"m a business. Not when brides dispute my $3/serving by telling me, "well the lady at church only charges $1.50/serving!"

And yet there have been NUMEROUS threads in which CC'ers have lamented over the attitude of "well, you bake from home so you are SUPPOSE to be cheaper!" when the reality is a home baker's cost of ingredients is probably higher per unit than mine, simply because I can buy in volume. The balance to that is I'm paying 4-digit rent for my space and a loan payment for $45,000 worth of equipment.

This is a long disputed topic on here ...... let's not turn into an "us and them" crowd, K?

It's not that I don't WANT to be legal- I would love to be legal and have the playing field be even. I really would. I just wish that I lived in a state that allowed cottage industries- but dh needs to have a job there too.

Realistically, if you are *JUST* doing for friends and family - not referrals beyond that - no one is going to care if you're licensed or not.

It's the "beyond that" that is the problem.

Well first of all, I don't believe that most "hobbyists" are competing with bakeries. You have the ability to produce more cakes than a home baker because you have a bigger kitchen, bigger equipment, multiple ovens etc etc. I don't charge for my cakes, I was just stating that IF I rented a kitchen now it would cost a lot of $$ because I would have to build up a client base. I don't advertise, I don't do shows or go to bridal fairs. Most hobbyists don't. The ones that do are probably the exception, not the rule. As for me, I just ask that my costs be covered. I like to do cakes for fun. I have no interest in becoming legal and selling them. I just do them for family and some friends. Others have asked me, but I always decline. There is no need sarcasm or for this to become a heated discussion about legal vs. illegal. Believe me, I don't want to take business away from a bakery. That would take over my life and I enjoy being a SAHM! I do maybe one cake a week for practice or fun. If it's for someone else, they go to the store with me and buy my ingredients for me. I'm just saying that I think home-baking should be allowed. As long as the home kitchen is inspected and the home baker follows all the same rules as a commercial kitchen, I don't see what the big deal is...obviously this can be done successfully or it would outlawed in every state.

I have no problem with homebakers who are legal and licensed and all that jazz.. that is what I am. I do have an issue with the homebaker who undersells themself and their competition and who does their "business" under the radar. I have no issue with you buying your mom ingredients to amke you a cake. I doubt the state would either.. she's your mom and it wouldn't be a big deal at all, but if your neighbors and your neighbors' friends start doing it they will have an issue with it.

I completely empathize with anyone who lives in a state that won't allow home kitchens. I just think that doing this and not being legal opens you and your family to lawsuits and that is no joke. If you aren't licensed you can't carry liability insurance and you have no protection should someone get ill from your product. It runs deeper than simply I am legal and you aren't and I am looking down on you.. that's not the case at all. There's just too much of a risk to do this and not be legal. Friends and family are different than Sally up the road who you don't know from a hole in the wall.

I spent half a million dollars to open a bakery in a state that licenses home bakers. I can tell you with confidence that for the most part they can't or don't compete with me.

I tell customers every day " North Carolina is a state that licenses home bakers, so there are a lot of people who can make this cake for less than I will. Most of them use cake mix. Most of them use shortening based icing. Most of them freeze their cakes. I'm not willing to do any of that."


Business is all about defining yourself to the marketplace and finding your customers. I can tell you without reservation that the customer who grouches about price but ends up booking with you is going to be a bad customer. If they are unhappy about the price, then you have not done your job in building the value of your products.

Illegal is illegal, but lets be honest and acknowledge that there are some things that are illegal ( speeding, baking cakes and selling them) that just don't rise to the level "high crimes and misdemeanors" and don't merit get your panties all bunched up over.

If you are operating illegally you should know that your insurance will not cover your liability if someone sues you. That means if some kid is allergic to your cake mix, or you get some dodgey Chinese food product from Walmart, your butt is on the line, and it could cost you your home, your credit rating etc., but it's your choice.

I suppose this is just a stupid comment, but could one legally be hired to bake a cake in the client's home. You bring the tools, and they provide the space. You would set ip shop in their kitchen and once you were on the clock you would either go out and buy the ingredients or give them the list ahead of time. Or sell it to them for specialized stuff like pre-made fondant or gumpaste flowers. As long as their kitchen was ok (clean, usable i.e. the oven worked and there was enough work space) you might be able to make it work. The cooling period for a cake would be tricky, but maybe bake one day decorate the second.

OK, I told you it was a dumb idea.

I am one of those home bakers, in Ohio, a Cottage Food State. I have read the rules, spent money on getting my name "taken" with the state, etc etc. My boyfriend is even finding a new home for his dog so I can pass a home inspection and sell more. I spend most nights online, getting my name out there and doing orders. I dream cakes and cookies. I have two small children who are here with me 24/7. It doesnt make me any less of a baker or less of a businesswoman.

I know I might never get the stature of some of the cake shoppes around town, but ya know what? That is fine. As long as the people who are receiving my cakes are happy, I am happy.

Life isnt fair. You have to deal with what you have. Thats all you can do. Much love to all the home bakers and owners/participants of bakeries out there!

I never intended to do anything illegal. I made a few birthday cakes as GIFTS. They sent me a thank you card with cash in it. What do you do about that?

I see both sides of the story. I understand the decorator doing it as a hobby and the businesswoman (or man as the case may be ). I am a hobbyist. I do cakes for friends and family but I think in my mind I feel like the people that I bake for would not really buy a custom cake from a real bakery. If I didn't make them a cake, they would just go down to Wal-Mart or the local grocery store and get a sheet cake for $15.00.

That being said, my cakes are usually gifts and I've turned down some weddings so that I'm not serving cake to the public. I know that doesn't make it right (by legal standards) but I LOVE cake! I'm not giving it up anytime soon!

Well, did you know in my state, it's illegal to walk backwards and eat a hamburgar? Also it's illegal to own a red bathtub and is a 30.00 fine to say the 'G..D...' curse word in public? These aren't noramlly challenged these days obviously because tmes have changed so much but they are still 'on the books'. The fact that someone could be fined for accepting money to cover cost from a relative while making their kid a cake belongs in this 'law' category. Anyways, Many restraunt kitchens are hazardous as we have all seen those 'hidden camera' shows. Still these businesses are long standing well known huge corporations and still going strong. It goes to show that the 'licensing requirements and laws aren't necessarily going to protect the consumer. Their business practice and our expectations of their services aren't always followed just because the paper work has been done. To pay and sign on the dotted line doesn't prove that the goods are going to be 'good'. All licesnsed kitchens and or cake decorators aren't necessarily 'ethical'. I'm sure most are, especially after investing so much but It all comes down to the individual's morals. Many 'unlicensed' people are so clean and careful because they appreciate their customer and take pride in their work and are respectable in general. They will use the best ingredients and put TLC into their work. Bottom line, I for one feel the laws should be the same across the board. If you can have a home bakery in some of the states, then everyone should have the option. I also feel that the cost and requirements are too much for many people and they are not all able to meet the criteria. Not that they 'wouldn't' if they could, but simply can't. Some people weren't born with the resources available in their lives to make this dream come true. Some can't spend 50,000 on a 'chance'. I don't think anyone should 'have' to. I think that we should be taxed at a set percentage of our earnings. Insurance should be available to all and charge accordingly. Insurance costs for example based on tenure and record of history. Higher cost for the new business and lesser cost for good record proven. Discounts for the long standing 'no incidents' business. There are so many different points of views here and I can understand how everyone here feels. But I do think that the cost and requirements are pretty extreme for most and cost incurred to get 'legal' should be based on revenue proven, not revenue estimated.

Here here Debi.. no one has handed me anything either. I am a simple, but legal, homebaker with a dream and I hope to someday be as lucky as you have been. If you aren't willing to assume the risk of doing something right.. why do it?

Instead of us kvetching about who is better than who - why don't we try to reform the existing cottage industries in our states? Especially with the economy the way it is maybe it is a good time to allow more home businesses. There is no reason why it shouldn't be allowed if a proper inspection is done. If you pass inspection - voila a green light to bake. Where should we start?

And for those of you who have a store front - you will always do more business than the home baker. I would rather do custom orders, than just bake a bunch of cakes and cookies and hope someone buys them before they go stale.

Wow, I am sorry my thread has gotten so out of control! I didn't mean to upset anyone. I just want to be clear on the laws.
I personally went yesterday and spoke with the one shop in our town that does some wedding cakes, she is nationally known for her pies, and is going to be featured on the Food Network. I asked her what I should do to become legal and any advice she had for me. I told her I decorate Fondant cakes. She told me flat out - if she were me she wouldn't get legal. That I should fly under the radar as long as I can. That if I am caught they would just make me comply. She then asked for me to make some business cards she could hand out because she doesn't make fondant cakes and people call and ask her. She didn't seem worried that I would take any business from her at all, and since there isn't another bakery or cake shop (besides the local grocery store where the cake decorator there also told me she wants to refer ALL her wedding cakes out to me now! that she just doesn't have the time!) I don't think I am taking business from anyone thankfully. I think that there is great potential here for me because of this, and when I become legal I will have business poping up everywhere!
I respect everyone here who is doing this legally and would not want to diminish their hard work in any way. I also think that it should be legal to bake cakes at home as previous posters have said however as long as that home met the same health standards as the commercial kitchens.

I read this mainly because I saw Debi had the last post at the time... I follow all of Debi's postings if I can because she has so much wisdom to share.

I can say for a fact Debi has been nothing but helpful to me since I came here. She didn't know me from anyone, I PM'ed her one day, we not talk thru emails, and she helps me with everything and anything I need from finishing touches on a cake, to my first wedding cake, now onto my 2nd wedding cake, and had even mentioned coming all the way to Maryland to assist with my very own wedding and reception but cannot due to other plans.

Debi has never once acted in any way like she was "rich" or well to do or better then myself and has never once made me feel bad about the way I was raised. She has always been upfront and open with me about her life before cakes and has shared the growth of her business with me every step of the way.

I think those who are making assumptions need to take a step back and look at what it has cost for these people to get where they are today. Even those who are still home bakers but are legally able to do so like myself. We lose time with our families, spouses, and children, we miss out on outings, parties, dinners, etc. because "we've got a cake due" and we put everything else on hold and our houses look like shit because we can't walk away from that cake order to wash the clothes or vacumm the living room or pick up the toys until the cake is done and we have a free minute to tend to other things... I think everyone just needs to step back and focus on what's really important here.

If I had to put $50,000 into a business, I would never have a business!

To make a very long story short...

I spent $11,000 to get my shop up and running. It is 800 sq ft and I think it is the prettiest place ever!

Now the kicker! I got back over $5000 of that on my income tax return! So overall, I spent about $6000 to get it going. I have never had a business before and learned as I went along. It was a challenge but a very rewarding one. I keep hearing these huge amounts of money some think that it takes and I would not have thought twice about doing this if I would have believed that.

I like many others came from NOTHING. My sisters and I walked to school in the snow in Michigan with old socks on our hands because my parents could not afford mittens for us. I then married an A1C in the AF. We both worked and clawed our way to where we are now. He is a Chief in the AF and I am an RN, who just opened a cake shop...and it can be done WAY under $50,000.

OT
(Ohmygoodies, I lived in Easton, MD for five years and loved it there!)

joaaaan - I just wanted to say that I do understand where you're coming from. I'm in Oklahoma too and in a very rural area. There's just no way I could ever in my lifetime afford to meet the requirements in this state. And I absolutely could not expect that people here would pay the prices I'd have to charge to break even month to month. When you live in a town of 300 people there are no opportunities to rent kitchen space without driving 20-40 miles to get there. Now when we pay $3-$4 a gallon for gas there goes the money you save by renting! It's ridiculous. Especially ridiculous is the fact that we live in one of the lowest income states and our regulations mean spending tens of thousands dollars to just stick your neck out there. And saying that not all of us have those funds available to take that risk does not, to me, equal calling people rich or spoiled, or say they have money just lying around. For me it means I can't risk everything I own and more, as Debi said she did, because if the risk didn't pay off, I wouldn't be able to put food on the table...or have a house to put the darned table in anyway.

OMG Debi you made me laugh with your reply.

No one handed me anything eighter it took me years of not only working but going to school, working 15 hour days taking abuse from big headed chefs that didn't have 1/2 the talent.

To have people hire me because they believed in me and have crazy jealousy in kitchens.

I've been working since the age of 12!

I saved every single dime I could for the past 4 years, I busted my butt in school to get merit scholarships that I wouldn't have to pay back if I kept an 3.5 average and I sacrificed a great deal to put the money away.

My family supported me in my endevour, my hubby who has been out of work for the past 6 months and just found a job to my son who realized that his stay at home momma had to do this for the family.

I too come from a very poor family where my mom would wrap things that we owned to bring to family diners so we could eat and she wouldn't be made to feel like we were taking charity.

No one handed me anything that I didn't scrimp, save or scratched for and I'm sorry but I think that people have this issue backwards.

Staying safely at home, not taking any chances make me laugh, staying home is safe and secure, not making sacrifices is also expecting things to be easily gotten.

It's thanks to US out there in the front lines that have to charge bigger money so we can make a profit help the home bakers make that extra money to build that nice cash cushion or to spend on extra cake toys or classes or whatever they want to spend it on even if it IS supporting a family.

I've only been open since January and yes, things are very hard right now, but I believe in my passion and will be taken kicking and screaming away from my dream.

Am I broke right now? You betcha, broke enough that I can't even buy a 45.00 bucket of fondant for the 2 cakes I have this week. I have to make it, kneading it until my upper arms cramp up because I had to dip into my last financial reserves to get my permits paid and to get some extra paperwork done so I can sell sandwiches from the shop.

and I upset? depressed? nope, just another challenge I have to surpass at the moment.

Would I like to work from home? If I could I would, but knowing I can't I won't. I will not teach my son that it's ok to bend the laws, I will not give up my pet.

I read someplace someone's response that "Everyone does it" or that we are all hypocrites because we have bent the law sometime in our life be it driving too fast or whatever.

I can proudly say that I live an ethical life. As ethical as I possibly can. If I break the law it is by total ignorance and when I find out my mistake I try to rectify it asap.

I am by no means perfect. I have my own personal issues and demons to deal with, but I'm a leader not a follower and I will NOT DO IT just because EVERYONE else is doing it.

No sir, not for this chick. and I'm sorry my words may have offended but remember we ALL have our reasons to do what we do.

and to me, it doesn't matter how many cakes you do, or how talented you are or the thousands that you can get for one of your cakes. If you bake at home for money and you're not supposed to, then to me, this is just your hobby not your business don't get pissy with me because I had the guts to put my money where my mouth is.

Ok, off the box now.

PS: I DO admire the talent pool that is Cake Central. I appreciate the art and the work we all put into our cakes but please don't be thinking that I have some cushy job or a secret genie that handed me the money I needed to open my shop. I may never make enough to retire and buy a big yatch or become world renown, but I'm happy in my own little world and that's all that matters to me.

I wanted to point out that I am not trying to step on any toes here. I can see everyone's point of view. I can side with the 'struggling' decorator as well as the 'achieved' decorator. I am not implying that successful business owners are only pulling money from 'certain body parts' as far as their 'resources' go. I didn't mean money to be the only 'resource' in reference. Resources to me also mean having family members or spouse who will support you like some here on CC have. I have read posts about crafty husbands that jump in and build support structures, deliver cakes, watch the kids and one case in particular, a husband built an entire room onto the house for her decorating pleasure. It helps and is motivating to have support from someone even down to just lending an ear and offering a back rub or a hug to relieve some of the stress that's sometimes encountered. I guess that's a little cheesy but some people thrive off that stuff. Some people don't have a house but have an apartment and cant meet building requirements. Maybe the decorator is a struggling single parent. Some may have a 40 hr job that they can't risk losing in case the decorating venture doesn't prove successful so can't jump in with both feet all at once. This would be the type of person that wants to do 1 or 2 cakes a week to make a little extra money to get by..and those that live paycheck to paycheck and are 'credit challenged' and unable to get a loan of that size. To a lot of people, hind sight is 20/20 and at a point now where they realize are a day late and a dollar short and can't seem to make that sacrifice. A successful business person has to have 'business sense'. A creative mind and a business mind are 2 totally different things.
Kudos to those who are blessed with both skills. I know many people who have worked very hard to become successful in other fields. I've known those that have crashed and burned. It usually is not easy I'm aware. There are those tho, that can benefit from having a spouse with a wonderful job who make it possible for the other to be a stay at home wife and or mother and take advantage of that time to try and build their own business and those that were born into money as well. I don't disrespect either side. And Indydebi, I know that you are a well respected person here on CC and many people come to you for advice and such..I probably have too because you're very knowledgeable and very helpful and so I don't doubt at all that your kindness and assistance goes beyond these threads on CC. I was only sharing my opinion..right or wrong, it's just how I felt so I put in my 2 cents.

Indydebi- I just want to say that I highly respect you and I'm sorry your feelings have been hurt. I'm not around CC as much as I'd like- but you've stood out to me as a very kind, generous and helpful person. I never meant to start a us vs them fight about this- I really want to understand- but at the same time I've thought long and hard about what I need to do and I'm doing it.

Wow- this is obviously a touchy subject. It's like asking if you should breastfeed or bottle feed on a mommy board (don't answer that).

So hypothetically- my sister gets married. I provide the cake and dessert buffet for 500. I have receipts for everything and my mom reimburses me just for the cost of ingredients- technically even though it's for my sister- but because I'm feeding the public I'm not legal?

I'm also interested in how to get the laws changed. Who would you petition? The health department? The state legislature? Where would you start?

Another thing to think about is if you have a Home Owner's Association in the development where you live. Mine would not allow a business of any type to be run out of the house.