Well if someone doesn't care to obey the law, why would they care about the people they serve?
Breast Feeding is best!!!
And yes to stem cell research!!!!
Oh and Breast feeding is for SUCKERS!
Literally 
Ok here is a serious question. I live about 15 minutes away from the Ohio border. Now hypothetical...Say I rent a little house to get my Ohio's license since they allow home baking. Would I be allowed to sell cakes in my home state of Indiana without worry?
Ok here is a serious question. I live about 15 minutes away from the Ohio border. Now hypothetical...Say I rent a little house to get my Ohio's license since they allow home baking. Would I be allowed to sell cakes in my home state of Indiana without worry?
i believe so as long as the cakes are fully prepared in that lisenced kitchen...
Ok here is a serious question. I live about 15 minutes away from the Ohio border. Now hypothetical...Say I rent a little house to get my Ohio's license since they allow home baking. Would I be allowed to sell cakes in my home state of Indiana without worry?
the ohio cottage laws are very clear that you cannot sell to other states under the cottage law guidelines. however, if you got your rental house inspected and licensed, then i think you could. call the dept of health, but i'm pretty sure thats okay. i mean, i deliver cakes to KY all the time (i bake in a licensed facility, not with the cottage rules).
I agree Jeanne. That's what scares me most about not being licensed. It's not getting fined, it's getting someone sick and getting sued! I've only sold two cakes and they were for friends of friends. Now I personally wouldn't sell cakes to strangers without being licensed because I am so paranoid but I'm sure that's how most people start out. I heard a famous cake decorator say that they baked out of their house for years before they outgrew it and had to get a kitchen. And no, they didn't have a home licensed kitchen.
But I do think the extreme is doing wedding cakes and bridal shows and not being licensed. I can't imagine why anyone would take that risk but it is their choice and what will happen, will happen.
This site is for cake decorators to help and support each other and as much as this is such a heated debate right now, it'll hopefully be gone in a few days!
Didn't Indydebi basically say "not to go there" with this topic?? 
I agree with the whole "if the laws weren't there it'd be so much easier" but what some people don't understand, 1 you are breaking the law when you do something in direct violation of said law. 2 you are making people like Debi and Marie and all the others who have busted their asses and established their business and spent a ton of money going the right way feel like shit because where they live they HAVE to play by the rules or face jail time or fines out the wazoo.... just because you can lay low and hide from the law in what you're doing doesn't make it any better or any more right just because you haven't gotten caught yet.
What some people don't understand is the way you are talking about how it's ok for you to break the rules and hide behind closed doors is really making it harder on the ones that have faught so hard to get where they are.
Now really... it's not a person on their high horse to expect things be done right. Put yourself in thier position... if you took everything you had and put it into a business and busted your ass every day to keep it going, wouldn't you be a little ticked off at someone coming in from nowhere and taking your business because they don't have the over head costs you do and can sell for a little cheaper not to mention that it's not going to be a nice or anything like that but because they don't have to pay the taxes, the rental fees, the licensing fees, the insurance fees etc that big businesses do.... that would really tick me off if I were to put as much into my business as Debi and everyone else has just to have everyone sit back and say it's ok for me to break the rules because I'm not making very much on it... or whatever the reason is.
[quote="littlecake"]I'm in oklahoma, as far as i know they'll allow you to do cakes at home as long as you have a separate kitchen, i looked into doing that, but after having another home based biz for years i decided not to go that route....i wanted to keep my biz and home separate.
I believe it depends on the county you live in. I live in Oklahoma County and they do not allow any food business to be run out of residential property. I talked with the health inspector at length and he said it is done but they "go after the bigger fish" until a complaint is made on a home food business then they pursue it. But, no it is not legal in my county.
This will go long.
I've read...most... of this post, and I have to share this for those who think it's cheap and easy to get legal *any*where, if you're just *determined* enough. I have some encouraging things and some discouraging things to share, but it's my story, so here you go:
My state doesn't license in-home kitchens; it has to be separate entrance and not accessible (and cross-contaminate-able) from the living space. There were two incubator kitchens in my area (and by area, I mean within a 90-minute drive). The closest one (40 minutes away) had two years of "we're not taking any new renters/we're under new management", and now they've closed, to my huge disappointment. I didn't bother with the 90-minute drive location, understandably.
Schools and churches that I've talked here to are either a) not certified or b) not interested in renting. Honestly, most of them act like I'm from another planet when I tell them what I'm looking for. ("Bill, there's some crazy lady on line 2").
I tried a restaurant kitchen, which was tiny (I had about a 14 x 14" space to work on), filthy, and limited time (early morning only, right when I have to drive kids to school, how convenient. And no, I have no one to carpool with), but it WAS free and he seemed happy to be able to *help* me . However, I think he also wanted me to do free desserts for the restaurant, too, which I don't have the time or interest for. And then, when I asked him to write me a note for the health dept saying that yes, I use his certified kitchen, he literally freaked out and said he didn't "want them involved" and said I couldn't use him anymore. I think he was afraid of being deported back to Mexico. So there was no way I could use him as a legal kitchen.
What I DO have is this: I found a venue 20 minutes away that has an 1100 sq ft stainless steel kitchen that usually available, and it's a cook's dream, but it's $50 (yes $50) AN HOUR, with a $50 cleaning deposit each time and a 2-hour minimum, so that is what I have to use for now. I have to have them on my insurance, which is $40/month, I pay $220 a year to get a new commissary license, complete with a menu submission, and I have to be inspected in that kitchen each year. I also have a food handler's certificate, which cost almost nothing and anyone with a pulse could pass it. So I bake there and have to bring the cakes home to a separate fridge that I have here just for cakes, because they don't have fridge or pantry storage for me at that location. It's a pain, but it's what I have. So it's legal and yet...not completely. Call it flying under the radar or whatever, but I can't think of anything else to do right now.
There is a bakery for sale down the road for $200,000 right now, but I have a full time job running my DH's business, and to go buy something like that, quit my job with him (not possible), and start a full-time career away from the house is not an option. I may as well just go get a job in town (which I don't need). DH and I run a very profitable business (his), and a cake shop for me if something we're planning to build, but even with our income, (and I'll admit we're blessed to be very, very fortunate in that area) we don't have access to another $50K to build it. I know once we do build, I'll get even more busy, and then I have to worry about being TOO busy--since I still have my job with him to do, though I can forward the phone and the computer to the shop and handle a lot of the daily stuff from out there, but it will stretch me pretty thin. And I don't have any plans to quit what I'm doing for him until our daughters are old enough to work with us (they're 12 and 9, so I have awhile!).
We looked at converting our garage, or even part of it, but honestly I'm not going to park my new BMW outside in the snow so we can make that happen, even if we could do it for $10K or less, doing most of the work ourselves or hiring friends and family (we are also blessed to have lots of contacts in the biz, framers, electricians, contractors, etc).
We have a swamped Planning and Zoning office in this county, and it's a miracle if you can get them to move their a** for you within a year of your contacting them, so I have to start now if I want to build next year, when we will hopefully have time and $ to order a freestanding prefab building and have it brought in and set up on our property. IF we can get zoning approval. We are also blessed to have 5 acres in the county (not city), where we HOPE we can be approved for this (don't know yet); and that could be a whole other can of worms. If I could get the P&Z on the freakin' phone someday, I'd be happy to find out, though...
For me, as determined to be legal as I am, It's been one headache and deadend after another for about 3 years, and believe me, I'm pretty determined, but I also have 2 kids to raise and drive back and forth to school, a full-time business to run, 2 acres of landscaping and rose gardens to maintain, PLUS my cake dream. Sometimes I wonder if I'm being crazy to even think of trying a shop, because do I really have time to start a second career?
I've done the math, and yes, for me, here--$50,000 is a reasonable amount to expect to pay to get legal in this "hobby business" of mine, if I want to do it right. Then there's the question of how many cakes do I want to do before I feel like it's not a passion anymore but just another demand for more time than I can spare, to justify the expenses. And I'm not planning to support my family with my cake income (come ON, who said that you have to?). It's a side thing for me, and I love it, but I also price myself to be profitable.
I can see both sides of the argument, but please, don't condemn someone because they don't have $300 and some extra "guts" to get out there and get legal. It's great if that was the case for some of you, but for others, that's way, WAY over-simplifying it. Believe me, I know.
For those who want to be legal, take heart. I won't pat your head and smile and tell you to "Keep trying, dear. You'll find a way," because in some cases and in some states it really can seem like there ISn't a way. Still, I have to believe that saying, "If you can dream it, you can do it."
If I HAD a clone of myself, I'd go lobby the state for new cottage laws, but first I have to go put in some laundry, clean the house, prune 140 roses and the fruit orchard, till the 40 x 80 vegetable garden, finish painting the upstairs living room, finish our business taxes, get a mailing list and brochure ready for 1100+ customers, pick up two kids and take 4 of them to a school play tonight, oh, and bake a cake, all by tomorrow. (sitting around watching TV? ROFL--I never even SIT on my couches...they'll last forever.)
Let's put this one to bed, shall we? It's not an argument anyone will win.
And that's all I have to say...about that.
I just hate the drama of the "you guys are mean and I don't want to play" posts. Most of this thread is quite tame. You should read some of the scratch vs box mix cakes threads.
I think the only one that may trump that is the "no comments on my pics" topic! Aya!!
CC needs a therapy forum. 
Um...first of all, not sure why people want the thread locked...this is not even close to the most heated thread we've ever had here. We are adults having an adult debate and yes, sometimes it goes out of hand...but thats life!
Now, I have to say that I was a cake decorator who had her own coffee shop/bakery and I put a lot of money, time, energy, blah blah into it. Was I mad that others made cakes and weren't licensed? NO! Here's the thing:
- They can't advertise like a legal baker can
- If the argument is that they are taking the business away because they are cheaper, then obviously the customer wasn't going to buy your cake anyway.
- It is not our job to be concerned and police what everyone else does. How many of you have or get your hair done by someone that wasn't licensed? Or does anyone go to a backyard car mechanic? Anyone pay someone to watch their kids under the table??
Oh wait, I guess since I do taxes free of charge for others I'm part of the problem too? 
LOL! I think we do need therapy sometimes!
Hi ladies - first off can someone tell me how to find out if Illinois has a "cottage" law that I have read about on here??
Also - do all the same rules apply if I am not doing any baking?? I am interested in having a legal business dipping stuff in chocolate...pretzels, chips, graham crackers, etc....
No perishables, no raw indgredients, etc....
I find myself fairly internet savvy but am having a terrible time trying to find out the laws/regulations for the state of Illinois. Can anyone help me?
Karen
Ok, I guess I'll start by saying I'm pro-choice, support gay marriage, breast-fed both of my kids, and I'm for stem cell research if it will save lives.
That aside, I think the majority of posts on this thread are valid, truthful points. And the back-and-forth on this thread is the same kind of back-and-forth that had been going through my mind for a while, when I was trying to decide if I wanted to open up shop or not. In the end, I decided that I didn't want to open a business, for a lot of reasons: can't get the capital, the long, crazy hours, psycho customers, etc. If I *could* sell from home and make a little extra money, I would, but I can't, so I'll just keep it as a hobby for now. Maybe one day I can make the leap, but now's not a good time for my family. 
I think it's up to each person what is best for them and their families. But I will say, if you are baking illegally from your home AND advertising, doing shows, etc, I think that's wrong. I am not willing to risk it, but maybe some people are.
Everyone has a great idea until you own the one that you are encouraging.
What people need to realize is that this occurs in almost every professional field and doing it on the side is illeagle most of the time. GET OVER IT! It is happening and is going to continue to happen FOREVER! If you do not want to compete with home bakers, then don't go into businsess!
I bake from home, rarely take money (i think 2 times since I started 4 years ago) I will be legal before I get into this as a business or I won't do it.
But you who are being mean are not going to make me feel bad about it either. You do not know everyone's situations is life, you have no right to call people names or judge. Though you may be legal to bake, what other laws do you break? Have you ever hear of not pointing out the speck in someone's eye before taking the plank out of yours?
I think that this is a good debate, a good discussion to have, since many new decorators do not even know the legal issues behind it. But please keep the discussion on a mature level that doesn't stoop to name calling. That just lowers respect for yourself and may devalue your point.
Stephanie
My, this is a lively and interesting discussion And it applies to me directly. Two days ago, I was asked to do a wedding cake for a couple who saw my work on Flickr. Naturally, I was flattered and said "Yes! I'll do your wedding cake!". Then I did some internet research on CC and checked the State of Michigan laws on food prep in a home kitchen. No go.
I'm so disappointed. I e-mailed the couple and told them I can't do it. Now that I am aware of the law, I can't live with myself if I knew I was breaking the law. Yes, we all break the law sometimes, but this would seem so... purposeful. I had no idea it was illegal. We purchased my wedding cake in 2002 from a woman that did it out of her home kitchen. She did a fabulous job and she was the nicest person. Everyone tells me not to worry about it, that tons of people sell food from their house w/o getting in trouble, but I just don't want to risk anything...
In the meantime, I like many others, am trying to figure out a way to make this work. I guess I'll stick to making cakes as gifts for my friends and family... but I'm going to start checking the realty section for spaces to rent. You know, with all the extra cash I have laying around My husband and I are in the "Pay Off Debt Like Crazy" stage of the Dave Ramsey Money Makeover plan - while surviving on one small income. Any of you doing this will know exactly how much I have in savings A girl can dream, right?
Hi Lorijo-
It's "springlakecake" from Flickr. I have a different username here. (we conversed a couple of times there)
Hey Merrisa
How are your plans for your licensed home kitchen going? Wish I lived closer... I would pay you nicely to rent your space for a few hours Are you part of the cake decorating groups on Flickr too? There are some fun discussions there...
I do have a homebased business.. it cost me next to nothing to get it started.. just water test and licensing fee which was $25.00. I am VERY lucky to live in NH where we Live Free or Die.. (hate that slogan). If I couldn't do this legally from home.. I wouldn't be doing it right now. I'll gladly take on some employees who don't mind sleeping in my messy office and working for cake balls.. it has a fold out couch... But seriously.. if I had to open a commercial kitchen I'd have to have a different business right now. I could rent a kitchen if I could find one.. and if I had to.. I would as that would be my only viable option right now. I just can't bring myself to operate and not be legal and not have insurance.
FlowerGirlMN rents a kitchen and I am sure she can tell you the specifics.
Oh and I am pro-breastfeeding.. extended beastfeeding at that.. and pro stem cell research too. Infact.. we are going through the rigors of in vitro fertilization right now and after we are done having kids we are donating our leftover frozen embryos to Harvard for their stem cell research.
I love this thread. It has brought up many valid and important points AND stayed relatively tame.
I think we do need therapy sometimes!
Are you kidding? This IS therapy for me!! 
I like this discussion - I am at the "friends and family" stage of my cake career. I have been living in my parents house since August of last year and have not made a cake since September (because there is just no place to do it!!) Our new house is finally ready and we are moving this weekend. I can't wait to get back into cakes, and the new mortgage payment makes the thought of selling cakes more appealing. This thread has given great infromation - particularly the part about the laws in Utah changing, can't wait to check that out - and I appreciate the fact that both sides have expressed their point of view. This site is great and I have learned more here than in any class I have ever taken. Thanks to all those who have participated, and keep the conversation going.
Ok, I'm Atheist, pro choice, pro gay marriage, pro stem cell research, and pro OBAMA.....but other than that I'm normal.. haha...
I'm a hobbyist too, and I am glad that cake central is around or I never would have known that I couldn't accept money. So, since we are in the planning stages of building our house, we've included a cake room. CC has saved me so much time and money already! As soon as I'm legal I'll be charging, but for now it's fun to see how many people sweet talk me into making a cake for them. I like the attention and I enjoy the experience too!
I feel that the legal bakers should take comfort in the fact that they are licensed in legal. They never have to worry about being fined or busted compared to an illegal baker. If an illegal person wants to deal with the stress and fear of getting caught then that is their stress and their problem.
BUT as far as people getting sick. Just because someone bakes from home doesn't mean they are more likely to make someone sick than someone that has a legal kitchen. We have all seen regular restaurants that have shut down because they are dirty and made people sick. Noone has mentioned that. I konw there are home kitchens that are just as clean as a business kitchen.
I'm just saying. Go USA! 
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