Home bakers should'nt be given such a nasty reputation, some are just trying to get there foot in the door.
Everyone has to start somewhere, and everyone is going to have thier own way of starting.
We should be supporting each other in our business endeaovors not pointing fingers and laying blame.
There will always be two sides of every story, but that is no reason to turn ourselfs into the Hatfields and McCoys, were would we be if we did'nt have our CC family?

Just a few examples of people who had to start somewhere, even if it was in thier own kitchens.


Paula Deen- Made sandwhiches from home and had her sons deliver them around town...legal?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Deen


Duff Goldman -In 2000 started making cakes for family and friends and quickly outgrew his "home kitchen", he did'nt buy the kitchen for CCC until 2006...legal?
http://www.charmcitycakes.com/noflash/index.cfm?rd=aboutccc


Martha Stewart- Started her catering business in her basement...legal?
http://manhattan.about.com/od/citylife1/p/marthastewart.htm

My point basically is this.....Ohio and other states have a choice of whether or not they want to be inspected and licensed to work out of their own homes(cottage laws)...and if they don't want to be licensed ( for $10.00 fee in Ohio which I read in another post)then they just need to include labels with ingredients and have a few small limits. I'm just saying that I think it should apply to all if it can apply for any. You can't be mad at Ohio but they are definately not required to invest as much as others to make money at this. What about that logic? Thank You. There is a short thread on this which is interesting.http://forum.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-533223.html

LOL! This post is toxic, end it now PLEASE!

I just have to say...I love IndyDebi! She has worked SO hard to get where she is today and I love her because of the same reason I love cake clubs and ICES D.O.S. and sometimes even CC, because of the ladies that are truly here and love the world of Sugar Arts. It is an amazing little sandbox we all play in. It wasn't meant to be a place to find government loopholes NOR WAS IT EVER A PLACE TO bully people with elitist mentalities. I come to CC to learn, I just leave the threads where the same people that think they are better than everyone/anyone in the industry (although I have never paid to take your class, or ever even heard of you). I will spend about $8,000 out of pocket this year traveling to classes to take them with some greats, does this mean I HATE you peasants below me that don't have a culinary degree, heck no! I am friends with some amazing cake decorators, some are Wilton corporate some have competed in food network challenges, and SOME OF THOSE LADIES ARE NOT LEGAL! Do I hate them, heck NO! I learn from them every cake they make. It was a lot of work and a lot of money setting up shop, but guess what? I am legal and have no worries. The people who do not don't have that luxury, they do it at there own risk, and I don't give them a second thought! Gee, I would guess CC is probably at least 80% home bakers...watch those toes some of you LOVE to step on-Sugar arts is hear to enjoy not to give you some undeserved sense of entitlement. I don't care what anyone has to say to me, I just hate when people like IndyDebi get insulted the people I really respect BECAUSE OF THEIR GREAT CHARACTER and CLASS, some of us could use a touch of that Just my HUMBLE opinion.

Wow what a heated topic.

I just moved from a state with 'Cottage' laws to one without. I have no desire to have a bakery at this time. But I do wish I could become legal with a small investment (less than $500) for things like inspection and licensing.

Right now I do cakes for my family - usually for free. Sometimes my mom will buy the supplies - she often bakes the cake(s) as well and I fill and decorate when I get to her house.

I also do cakes for friends. Id on't have business cards or a website. I do charge. And trust me I've yet to do a cake for someone that would have gone out and bought a custom cake elsewhere. One of my first cakes for a friend was shortly after her dd's birthday. She went to baskin robbins for an ice cream cake and didn't even get enough cake to feed all the guests! So trust me when I tell you (the general legal bakers 'YOU") that I am not taking away your business.

I've had one inquiry about a wedding cake and I told her honestly that I didn't feel I'd mastered the skills necessary for that and wasn't sure I'd feel comfortable doing it. I said if they decided to take a chance on me and had a VERY simple design they were more than welcome to contact XX (the mutual friend who's party we ewre at) for my information.

So - while I would LOVE to call myself legal...it's not worth the time or money to me and my family to make that investment. I enjoy making cakes - but if I had to rely on it, even long enough to pay for a seperate kitchen I wouldn't enjoy it as much anymore. Right now I sell maybe 2-3 cakes a month and if I make anything on it it goes in my mad money that I use for shopping trips or saving for something for my family specifically.

So what is your advice for ladies in my situation? Am I lazy and a defeatist? Someone said stick to hobby cake making. That's what I'm doing - but if my friends/family are pleased enough with the product to reward me for my time and hard work, why shouldn't they?

OMG!yourstrulytx...that is AWESOME!




joaaaann- this is exactly the point of the thread! IT IS NOT FOR ALL!!! There are only a few states that have cottage laws...so it's not LOGIC!

I'm started reading this post yesterday and actually thought that it brought up a very good point in regards to the legal vs non legal and the reprocussions that are felt through out our industry.

I logged on this morning to see what else had been added and I am amazed at how this informative post has transformed into a I'm better then you and flame war.

In regards to becoming legal - don't for a second "assume" that just because we are legal we were able to do it easily. It can cost mega bucks and if your a wise shopper you can do it for less (that is NOT an attack on anyone or to say that anyone is an unwise shopper).

If you are doing it as a hobby for friends and family then keep it as such you started out doing them for free then continue to do so - don't take money or gifts in exchange. I can see it happening once but any more then that then you and "I" both know your "making some form of profit" ie "legal term business". Those that are habitual offenders are what is hurting us. Those of us who have taken the time to find out what it takes to become legal are hurting because we are told when we quote realistic prices that "so and so said they could do it for less".

Those that are doing it illegally you may be told by other legal bakers that if caught you'll just be made to comply are being given false information. When I started I looked into the pros and cons. I was told by many people do it under the radar as long as you can. Well in researching that option I found out that if caught there are fines, as well as they can and will hold your business license for a year once you apply. Why wouldn't they tell you to keep it under the radar if caught they don't have to be concerned that you may or may not take some of their business away.

Also to dispell a popular notion on home business owners - most of us do not sit around watching tv or doing laundry etc between cakes. I'm legal - poor as dirt because I've put the few pennies I've had to everything that I own (note own not rent). I again am legal do it out of my home licensed and inspected - I also work full time. Don't make assumptions. I get up early go to work, work all day come home and then work full time with cakes. It's very exhausting.

To become legal in my state VA - I had to get inspected - find out what your local requirements are some require extra equipment others don't (I didn't need separate sinks etc so my start up costs are lower). I registered with the State Corp. Commission, got my license (which doesn't cost me a penny) and got inspected - I had tons of paperwork to fill out for them. I did it though.

Also just a note for those who are taking monetary gifts etc - your losing out by not being legal as you can not write off ANY thing on your taxes.

At this point I guess I"m losing my train of thought - my brain is fried because of everything I've read - I'm guessing the negativity got to me. I just read some things that really shocked me in regards to the wrongness of the statements and felt that I needed to dispell some of the disbeliefs.

It's been talked about in other threads on CC in regards to pricing and not to under sell yourself because it actually hurts our industry. So does the part time/full time baker who is under the radar. It trickles down more then you realize and in the end your only hurting the industry.

Stop making this an us vs them argument because realize it or not - Surprise we are all in it together.

Wow here I thought I was being legal and nope to my surprise I was not

Except for two times, I make the birthday/celebration cake for friends and family and give that as my gift for the occasion.

Although, my friend was getting married and I made the cakes for her. She bought one of the pans used and then gave it to me saying she would never use it. ILLEGAL!??

And One time a person I was just getting to know asked me to make two cakes for her twin children. I did but she dropped off some of the ingredients. Didn't ask her to. ILLEGAL???

Someday I hope to be a licensed cake decorator, but I need a separate kitchen for that and from what I've heard you have to bake and DECORATE the cake in the kitchen. I still take forever decorating. So, for now I teach Wilton classes and am legal at least doing that. I respect people that are legal, I just wish there was a way to get started that wasn't an all or none.

The thing about this pricing debate is that this happens in EVERY industry, not just the cake industry. People raise and lower prices for different reasons, to stay competitive, to account for a rise or fall in the price of supplies, etc. In my opinion, the legal or not legal issue is not what drives pricing. What about people who start out low and increase prices as their skill level increases? Are they also devaluing the industry? Regardless of what your prices are, regardless of whether you are legal or not, your customers will come to you because they want your product. The customers and clients that you want to keep are those that are willing to pay for the customization that they want, not the ones who are bargain shopping anyway.

I'm at home today. Making a couple pavlovas for a dinner party this weekend..

Just put them in the oven, and I'm here with the bowl and spoon. Yum. Feeling quite a bit less cranky.

Figured I'd share that info

I am not sure that is exactly true about Duff. It actually says he outgrew his home kitchen and 2 bakeries. Now, I don't know if he was selling cakes out of his home kitchen or not, but it does say he had 2 other bakeries.

As for the others, I didnt read the articles yet. Who knows what the laws were back in "those days."

I REALLY want to have a legal kitchen. We had the health inspector over here to check out my basement and see if we could realistically do it. I think we can, I just need to find the money. I do think it is the right thing to do. Flying under the radar just doesnt feel right to me. I mostly just try and make cakes as gifts for any occasion I can possibly think of to get experience. I am not saying I havent taken money for some, but I want to do it right.

I like it simply put as yourstrulytx: We have to start somewhere. I need to know if I will be bringing in enough business before I lose money -- I don't want a failed dream so I'm taking my time looking at every angle.

In CA it's impossible to be a legal home baker unless you live in a business district and basically build your own bakery up to code for customers to walk in that is separate from your living quarters. But a backyard bakery still makes more sense to me than renting when I'm only doing one cake a week - and I've only done one wedding cake.

I would lose money if I had to pay $20 an hour to become legal.

I think that it is very heated - "touchy, touchy - did someone heat some nerve?" - LOL
Seriously, I understand what everyone is saying. Both on the becoming legal, and, being legal. For me it was nothing more than the peace of mind that drove me to want to be legal. Initially - I thought it was just have your home inspected - and voila, but I almost got a heart attck when I went to the Dept. of health and told me that I needed all these things that I have never heard of.
I feel that my home is immaculately clean - after all I have some kind of obsession with cleanliness, my husband says I am a freak - and washing the hands....wow - don't get me started. So I felt insulted that they would think that my home was not fit enough. After much debate, my DH and I came to an agreement. I have a huge added on deck to the house. So we enclosed it, and it is going to be a lot better than my current kitchen. I think that it is the best way to go. Do it right, or don't do it.
I know that a lot of people might want to have issues with you - afterall it is human nature to be envious, maybe even friends - and might want to turn you in if in case of minor disputes. So I am one that is scared of any negative attention. Besides I am a wedding planner, so I am also going to do cakes catering and going to school for floral design. Why not offer all the services I can. All I have done was invest. I think it will be a big payback.
My Mom always said, the harder the race the sweeter the victory. Please be safe, and think like a client. Would you not like someone legal to make your cake? And, trust me - legal by no means mean better, but, it is all psychological, legal seems better.
So being awesome at what we all do, makes it better to be legal. Afterall it is like icing on the cake.

I am very surprissed when people is not completely honest in their statements. I sell my cakes through a Bakery and several restaurants. I receive my full price and they sell my cakes at their price, but it not honest in any way tto malke people believe that in the beginning we do not sell our cakes. No one believes that. Why, because maybe can give for free, one cake for your son pre-k or other cake for your niece bday, but never in the life you will do this as a hobby for free. Is you energy, your time, your gas or electricity, your water and none of these are for free. In my case I honestly start doing cakes from my home. Where I live, get a licence to sell perishables it nearly impossible if you want the legal way (as a matter of fact bakeries sell the cakes way higher than me), and because the big commerce in monopolating the system (such as Walmart, Sams, Costco, BJ) they almost give their cakes for free, making nearly impossible for Home Base Cake Decorator compete with their prices. I have my own cake recipe that I do not share, that's my signature. In Big Cities like mine when goverment laws instead of helping small business, make things nearly impossible you find other ways. Every state is different in their regulations when you talk about food. I spend nearly $1,700 to have a licence that let me sell through a bakery and several restaurants. This charges include inspections, certifications ( I am also a chef I already went to culinary school and already have my certifications in sanitary laws, and I have to pay for them, again), notary, insurance and other bunch of stuff that I do not remember right know. I was a bless that I start my "HOBBY" with the right feet and find different restaurant and the bakery that instead of working with them I do business with them, but not everyone run the same marathon. There are people that live in the correct place, that have been bless with their state laws. Good for you guys, but I know there are mothers, wifes, that want to be a stay at home mom, and want to do what the love the most, but is no way is this world that you pay like I do, to make 4 cakes in month, is ridiculuos. There are very, very talented people who work from their home to support their house income and do not charge as much as "Charm City Cakes" (in fact their cakes do not taste as you hope, for the price, place a minimun order as I did when I went to Baltimore, and you will be very dissapointed). I feel that we need to respect each other, If you are a legal cake decorator and your product is the best, you do not need to be angry to other that are not legal as you, but sell cakes also. There is market for everyone. The one who wants good cakes and the ones who almost want your cakes for free.

Hi! I didn't read through all the posts on here because there are so many, but I have a question. I am still learning how to decorate cakes, but my friends and family have all told me I am really good and should open my own business. I would like to believe that the customers will just come to me if I do this, but we all know that takes time. I am a single woman and so my income is the only one I have. How do you decide when to quit your only source of income and open up your own business? I would love to do it legally and be licensed, but if I can't make at least what I'm making at my full time job then I would lose my home and everything. I don't have anyone to fall back on to help me pay bills until my bakery can get off the ground. I'm sure there are other people out there in this situation so how do you do it?

You have no idea how excited that makes me. I'm going to make some phone calls today and see what I can figure out!

So wait.. Butterwench is Risque? Isn't Risque banned for some reason?

I'm soooo outta the loop. LOL

Well, here goes another post im sure will be lost in the thread.

It's about determination. Plain and simple. You tell me ONE business was started just because the owner wanted it to? Is there ONE that anyone was able to open on pure desire? NO! If you have the determination to want a business, you WILL find a way to make it happen. So you have to sell x amount to make it work.. Well, you better start working your butt off to get that x amount. Just WANTING will NOT make it happen. EVERY person that has opened a business worked HARD for it. Not 1 had it thrown in their lap. I am a mother of 3 boys relatively the same age (twins who r 9 and lil one who's 7), I work full time, and am starting school full time. Do I have the desire or wish to havea business? YES! But is my desire and determination that where Im willing to sacrifice here and there? NO... So I move on, and continue doing it for a hobby.
I also feel that a home hobbyist who sells a few here and there is NOT taking away from anyone else. But that's my opinion.
As far as a home baker being able to kick back and have a cup of coffee, and whatever else was said about that.. get real.. When I was a SAHM I didnt have time for all of that withOUT baking. I do understand what u were saying behind that.... but unfortunately it was not well put.
Ok that's all I have to say about it.... I dont normally get in the licensed/illegal debates.. but this one threw me for a loop.

All I know is that if I get one more email looking for a small but super detailed grooms cake (I'm talking 2-4 servings!), or a "small wedding cake for just the head table" from another bride who's getting the bulk of her cake from the cheap, unlicensed person up the road, I'm going to scream.

well i am sorry i started this post. I feel awful that people are getting so upset. I honestly justed asked cause I don't want to be breaking the law. Thanks for those of you concerned that the lady I talked to may not be trustworthy.. I am not necessarily taking her advice, it just surprised me that she said that, after all the legal bakers here told me first thing to do was to get legal. This thread has been very educational. Thanks for all the information and I am sorry some of it got ugly. At this point I am just going to keep making cakes for friends & family and tell the other people that want me to "give them my cards to hand out" that at this point its just friends and family only. I don't need to deal with a guilty conscience!!!

You know, I was going to put my 2 cents in again about the question but I deleted it. There is no conversing with people who are so rude and condesending. I can't believe that this is CC. I have never seen this ugly side before. Ooh I'm better than you because I have money to open a bakery. Ooh I'm better than you because my state will inspect my kitchen and yours won't. Give it up people. This has gotten so far off topic that the moderators should just lock this thread. The original question was to see if they could bend the rules of a very rigid state. Not can they stay illegal when all they have to do is fill out a form or pay sales tax. I think we have a bunch of sad sorry people on here who feel like they finally have a leg up on someone and it is pathetic. I haven't been in these forums for a while and they have gotten ugly. Get off your computers and go bake a cake! Maybe it will make some of you feel better, rather than bashing others.

LOL Cuteums! I agree

yep...this has gotten crazy---

im saying goodbye to this post.

OK - as a newbie, and a hobby baker, I guess I'll throw my two cents in.

Professional bakers, full time decorators: You are my heroes. Your work is spectacular, inspirational and educational for everyone. Even nicer, on CC you jump in immediately to answer our beginner questions and give us advice. I can't thank you enough.

I will never be that good - will never compete with the quality and scale of work that you do. Not sure I want to with all the client horror stories..**BUT** I love to bake, love to practice, love to try new things. I do it when I can, evenings and weekends for family and friends....usually giving it away.

I toil away safely in my office job, afraid to give up a regular paycheck and benifets. My DH, and my enjoyment of baking keep me sane!

However, I only have so many family events to practice on, and do get asked once in a while to do cakes for others. I refuse because I'm not licensed, and am afraid.

It would be nice if there was a way, I could indulge in this hobby that gives me pleasure and be able to safely charge something for it...that's as much loophole as I need.

Thanks for listening...and please everybody play nice!