Criticism

Lounge By DeliciousDesserts Updated 23 Oct 2013 , 2:24am by SystemMod1

DeliciousDesserts Posted 20 Oct 2013 , 8:36pm
post #1 of 110

I'm a delicate little flower.  I take any and all criticism to heart.

 

As painful as it is, I would rather someone be honest (and critical) about my work.  If there is something I can improve, I want to know!

 

I have noticed that sometimes, people post about a recent client criticism or a mishap but really just want empathy.  When someone does offer criticism, they cry foul.

 

I am also a very sensitive person.  I never intentionally hurt anyone's feelings.  

 

At the same time, I think turning a blind eye or encouraging poor craftsmanship does more harm than good.  

 

My critical eye looks differently on a "first" cake than one created for a paying customer.  

 

I encourage all of us to look within ourselves.  Do you want to encourage mediocrity?  Do you want to support your fellow cake artists to their own determent?  Are you willing to be honest and offer both encouragement and the advice that can help us all improve?

109 replies
BrandisBaked Posted 20 Oct 2013 , 8:43pm
post #2 of 110

AExactly. It seems people here think they are helping someone by lying to them to make them feel better. I would rather be (tactfully) honest and hurt someone's feelings briefly than lie to them to make them feel better in the moment but then have their business fail because they don't recognize where they need to improve to be successful.

JWinslow Posted 20 Oct 2013 , 9:02pm
post #3 of 110

Well said DD!!

IAmPamCakes Posted 20 Oct 2013 , 9:02pm
post #4 of 110

AIf I thought my cake was level (for example), I want someone to tell me if it wasn't. Then, I can look back to see how to improve. If you tell me it's perfect, I'll never know *how* to improve. I'll keep making the same mistakes, and my work will suffer in the long run.

Norasmom Posted 20 Oct 2013 , 9:42pm
post #5 of 110

I don't need to post my cakes and ask what's wrong...I am my own worst critic and already see the buttercream isn't smooth, the layers are off, e.t.c  I don't want my insecurities reinforced...:-D

I think there are people who genuinely want to hear only good things, but on the internet, that wont happen.  "Haters gonna hate."  Sad, but true. 

BrandisBaked Posted 20 Oct 2013 , 9:52pm
post #6 of 110

ASome people like smoke up their butts though... I prefer coffee (colonics). Heh.

cakefat Posted 20 Oct 2013 , 10:58pm
post #7 of 110

I agree!  Constructive criticism is a good thing- that's how you improve!! 

 

I think a lot of people have serious blinders on and while there's no point in being mean, constructive criticism is not mean at all...but a lot of people are just in denial and would like to continue that way.

 

It is becoming slightly vexing to hear others whinge on about how 'mean' etc people are- when they're just critiquing skills/work and suggesting how to improve. 

kikiandkyle Posted 20 Oct 2013 , 11:05pm
post #8 of 110

I always say don't confuse 'mean' with 'not what you want to hear'. 

liz at sugar Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 1:43am
post #9 of 110

And some people just don't have an eye for detail, and think what they've created is the bomb.  It may be a cake wreck, but if it is a facsimile to what they were trying to create, they see success.

 

Liz

MBalaska Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 2:16am
post #10 of 110

Honesty.

 

The applicant goes to a job interview and when asked by the company man what is their worst quality is, they say “Honesty”.

The company man says, “I don’t think honesty is a negative quality”.

Applicant says……….”I don’t give a crap what you think”.

 

perhaps constructive criticism, a fresh viewpoint, a second pair of more critical eyes, and feedback from the successful experience of others is a learning tool that not everyone readily accepts.

 

Please tear my stuff up and brutally expose the flaws......I'll accept  questions, comments, criticism, and discussion that leads to potential improvement. 

AZCouture Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 2:26am
post #11 of 110

AAmen!

cakesbycathy Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 3:37am
post #12 of 110

I think some of the time the problem is the poster doesn't actually expect to hear the truth. They are so used to having all their friends and family tell them how completely wonderful their cakes are, how they should open their own business, etc, etc.,  that when they get an actual HONEST opinion on what they could have or should have done they get upset.  They are expecting to hear they are amazing and when they don't they get defensive.

 

They take what is really constructive criticism as a personal attack.

And maybe they shouldn't post in the cake decorating business forum.  Just sayin'.

Godot Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 4:06am
post #13 of 110

AEveryone here is preaching to the choir. The ones who really need to read this thread will never do it.

cakefat Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 4:16am
post #14 of 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godot 

Everyone here is preaching to the choir. The ones who really need to read this thread will never do it.

 

oh so true

carmijok Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 4:27am
post #15 of 110

AI think there needs to be a forum section titled 'Tough Love' where decorators know they can get honest, un-sugared feedback and let the rainbows and unicorns crowd post everywhere else! ;-)

Godot Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 4:31am
post #16 of 110

AThat's what I thought the business forum was for, but apparently I'm wrong, as I've been banned temporarily twice in the last month for 'tough love'.

BrandisBaked Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 4:43am
post #17 of 110

AI think it's possible to be critical and honest without being a complete butthead. When I am giving honest criticism, I try to deliver it the same as I would to my kids.

cakesbycathy Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 2:34pm
post #18 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godot 

That's what I thought the business forum was for, but apparently I'm wrong, as I've been banned temporarily twice in the last month for 'tough love'.


There's "tough love" and there's complete sarcasm. 

 

It doesn't help anyone when your response is to tell someone they overcharged and should have sold their 3 tier cake for $20.  If you want to be helpful but also be honest then do that.  But if the pricing threads irritate you so much that all you can do is write a smart-a$& remark then IMO you either shouldn't be responding at all or you should be banned for purposely doing it.

ddaigle Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 2:38pm
post #19 of 110

I have been scolded more than once for my honesty.   I  do not sugar coat and try not to offend.   I just don't have the energy to defend myself anymore....I threw up the white flag and sit back now.   I've been on here since 2008 and almost all of the "old timers" are gone.   I'm too old for the drama and fighting. 

Godot Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 2:42pm
post #20 of 110

A

Original message sent by cakesbycathy

There's "tough love" and there's complete sarcasm. 

It doesn't help anyone when your response is to tell someone they overcharged and should have sold their 3 tier cake for $20.  If you want to be helpful but also be honest then [I]do that[/I].  But if the pricing threads irritate you so much that all you can do is write a smart-a$& remark then IMO you either shouldn't be responding at all or you should be banned for purposely doing it.

Awwww... you are so sweet!

AZCouture Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 2:48pm
post #21 of 110

ATruthfully, I don't see a lot of people getting upset over replies to their questions, I see others get upset for THEM, and create problems where there would have been none. And then another person chimes in, "yeah, that's right, you big meanie, leave 'em alone, blah blah blah." Most times the person asking for the feedback was grateful and wasn't fluffed by it. Perhaps it's not so much the original poster, but the others who feel they need to be a forum mom of sorts. That's what I observe.

AZCouture Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 2:53pm
post #22 of 110

AAnd I will admit there is downright sarcasm and spite at times, but you know what, it's still the internet, just cause it's a cake forum, doesn't shield from that. There are just as many trolls, pedophiles, and other creepy people here as car repair, computer, photography, and cooking forums have. But the mothering mentality is a very real issue. Nothing wrong with wanting to comfort and pat on the back, but honesty and cutting right to the point is valid as well. Happy medium perhaps?

JWinslow Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 3:19pm
post #23 of 110

I also think that reading comprehension skills need improvement for many members.  Far to often I've seen people jump in to "save or defend" the OP when there is an opposing position without really understanding that the criticism is meant to have the OP see things from a different perspective. 

When you ask for feedback, you don't get to control what kind of feedback you get.

DeliciousDesserts Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 6:14pm
post #24 of 110

AI get what you are saying.

Original message sent by cakesbycathy

There's "tough love" and there's complete sarcasm. 

It doesn't help anyone when your response is to tell someone they overcharged and should have sold their 3 tier cake for $20.  If you want to be helpful but also be honest then [I]do that[/I].  But if the pricing threads irritate you so much that all you can do is write a smart-a$& remark then IMO you either shouldn't be responding at all or you should be banned for purposely doing it.

Sometimes, we new some comic relief. It helps is all. By throwing out $20, everyone understands the sarcasm and no one mistakes it for real advice. It makes a point.

You too can choose to ignore remarks you don't like.

DeliciousDesserts Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 6:15pm
post #25 of 110

AExcellent point AZ!

Gees Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 6:16pm
post #26 of 110

I totally agree with you!

jason_kraft Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 6:39pm
post #27 of 110

A

Original message sent by DeliciousDesserts

I get what you are saying. Sometimes, we new some comic relief. It helps is all. By throwing out $20, everyone understands the sarcasm and no one mistakes it for real advice. It makes a point.

Unfortunately not everyone understands the sarcasm. There have been several occasions where people have taken a $20 price suggestion at face value and asked serious followups about how they arrived at that number.

DeliciousDesserts Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 6:42pm
post #28 of 110

AOh please!

While the sarcasm is lost on them, they are able to realize that it is ridiculous. Those comments are along the lines of how on earth did you come up with that.

jason_kraft Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 6:49pm
post #29 of 110

A

Original message sent by DeliciousDesserts

Oh please!

While the sarcasm is lost on them, they are able to realize that it is ridiculous. Those comments are along the lines of how on earth did you come up with that.

The sarcasm would be more obvious in a thread about a 200 serving tiered masterpiece, but when the discussion is about a cake that was priced at $35 I can see how some would interpret it as a bona fide suggestion.

It's impossible to know the mindset of every lurker who reads the thread and does not post.

-K8memphis Posted 21 Oct 2013 , 6:50pm
post #30 of 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandisBaked 

I think it's possible to be critical and honest without being a complete butthead. When I am giving honest criticism, I try to deliver it the same as I would to my kids.

 

 i agree--for real

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZCouture 

.... But the mothering mentality is a very real issue. Nothing wrong with wanting to comfort and pat on the back, but honesty and cutting right to the point is valid as well. Happy medium perhaps?

 

i very much agree with you re: happy medium --

 

yes 'cutting to the point' is good -- gently though ;)

 

i mean to me  if they are bringing an issue to the forum--they have already deduced there is a problem and they have made themselves vulnerable by posting it-- i want them to get the help they need with civility and without taking advantage of their vulnerability. just my thoughts

 

honesty has to be tempered imo

pure truth scalds imo

gotta toss in a touch of mercy imo

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWinslow 
 

I also think that reading comprehension skills need improvement for many members. ..

 

yes i agree  it's important to get the feel for a whole thread

 

just my thoughts on the subject--

 

edited for fixin' a typo

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