Self Taught Vs Culinary School Credentials

Decorating By TickledPink Updated 29 Oct 2005 , 10:13am by copperppot

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TickledPink Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 11:32am
post #1 of 16

Over the past few weeks I have looked at more and more cake shop/bakeries websites and they always post information about the baker. So far I've found one that was "self-taught" and the rest of them have culinary school education or some sort of formal education in the arts.

How important do you think that is in business? or buying a cake from a shop? When someone commands $3,000 - $8,000 for a detailed wedding cake do you think they get it because of their credentials or that self-taught bakers earn as much and come off equally credible and worthy of the high dollar amount?

I guess what I'm saying is, how important do you think formal education is?

15 replies
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SugarCreations Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 12:01pm
post #2 of 16

You will find several people on CC you are self taught I am one of them.
The best thing to do is figure out which direction you want to go. I know from research that the CIA wants you to have 6 months experience in a commerical kitchen before they will even admit you to the CIA.
Formal culinary education is expensive too say the least. But you can learn the basics on your own once you have those then the rest is up to you. There are plenty of top chefs that are self taught.
There is a chef on another post that I post on that says he would rather hire someone with no experience. Go to ChefTalk.com and register there its free and literally thousands of professional pastry chefs posts there. I am not saying you should not go to culinary school by all means if you can afford it go. I mean after all Abe Lincoln was a self taught lawyer and look what he accomplished. There are literally thousands of books out there that can help you go in the right direction. Read all you can, practice all you can there is no way you can master all the techniques but you can become familiar with them at least. I decided early on that sugar work is the way I wanted to go so I focus all my energy and attention toward that end. Set your goals then focus on what you are trying to accomplish. Sorry for the long winded speech I hope I helped you some.

There are two great reference books that you should look into getting:

The Professional Pastry Chef by Bo Friberg 1995 & 2002.
The Advanced Professional Pastry Chef by Bo Friberg.

These are 2 excellent text that are used in most culinary schools all over the US. I have both and would not trade them for anything. They are expensive in bookstores 65 to 70 dollars. But you can go to E-bay and get them for proably half that, that is where I got mine.

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TickledPink Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 1:08pm
post #3 of 16

I'm not intestered in culinary school because I've worked years to get my Business Admin degree and I'm closer than ever to graduation. That's as far as I think I can stand to go.

I will check into the books for sure THANKS for the tip!

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flayvurdfun Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 1:23pm
post #4 of 16

even taking a course at Michaels from time to time may help you.....

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krissy_kze Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 1:23pm
post #5 of 16

Personally, if I had thousands to spend on a cake I could care less about credentials. First and foremost, I'd look at the cakes to see if I like how they look. Then I'd want to taste them. If you can bake something tasty but have no creativity or personality in the decorations I wouldn't pay you for a special cake.

Right now I'm concetrating on the decorations. After I get experience with that I'll work on recipes. Some people get all bent out of shape if you use a boxed cake. Since I spend a week on the decorations, I like the quickness of the box.

Anyway, I' wouldn't worry about a professional credential. Let your speak for itself! If you feel you need the education, then by all means go for it. Another way to get a good education is to work in an independant established bakery.

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gdixoncakes Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 1:24pm
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TickledPink,

I think it depends on what you want to do. I think formal education gives more opportunity and options. For example, maybe working in high profile places but if you just want to sell cakes, I'm not sure it makes that much difference. I can only speak from what I know. And, I know I just took an AWESOME class from an up and coming cake artist, Bronwen Weber. She is AMAZING and I don't believe she has formal education, but she does teach at the Culinary School here.

Also, I know before I got into cake decorating, and I used to buy cakes from bakeries. As a consumer, I did not look for a degree on the wall like I do at the dr's office. I looked at portfolios or work they had displayed. If I liked that, they got my money.

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SugarCreations Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 1:25pm
post #7 of 16

I agree with krissy_kze. Let your work speak for itself.

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adven68 Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 1:27pm
post #8 of 16

I think it totally depends on the person. Some people do phenomenal work without having ever stepped into a classroom.....

Certain assumptions are made by a prospective employer when you hand him your resume with a culinary school listed.......naturally, they will expect that you know how to do a certain amount of things and may higher you on that assumption.

If an un-schooled artist hands the same employer his portfolio and it's really good, the employer may hand that person the same opportunity.

There's a lot to be said for experience and there is an equal amount to be said for raw talent.

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gilson6 Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 1:27pm
post #9 of 16

I checked into this wanting a at-home course since I work full time and also have a family (4 kids & a husband) which means that I don't have time to do a college course outside of the home. I finally found one. The Professional Career Development Institute offers a course. It was very reasonable (I believe $500-$600) and you make payments of $36.00 a month. You can work at your own pace. I've really enjoyed it. The name of the school is "The School of Gourmet Cooking and Catering". Their # is 800-223-4542.

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SugarCreations Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 1:46pm
post #10 of 16

Do they offer courses in sugar work?

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gilson6 Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 4:05pm
post #11 of 16

Not sure about that. I just started. I'm on my second group of lessons. icon_smile.gif

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ThePastryDiva Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 4:20pm
post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdixoncakes

TickledPink,

I think it depends on what you want to do. I think formal education gives more opportunity and options. For example, maybe working in high profile places but if you just want to sell cakes, I'm not sure it makes that much difference. I can only speak from what I know. And, I know I just took an AWESOME class from an up and coming cake artist, Bronwen Weber. She is AMAZING and I don't believe she has formal education, but she does teach at the Culinary School here.

Also, I know before I got into cake decorating, and I used to buy cakes from bakeries. As a consumer, I did not look for a degree on the wall like I do at the dr's office. I looked at portfolios or work they had displayed. If I liked that, they got my money.




My degree will get me into circles that I wouldn't be able to get into without it...Major companies and hotels and country clubs and so forth. A lot of these places are no longer doing weddings..they are not cost effective as they don't get the fees from the room rentals.

They would rather do conventions and such, and that calls for production work..and consistency.

My Portfolio .....KEEPS me out of these opportunities as they can see by my skills that I an NOT an entry level employee.

Down here in MIAMI, because of the demographics...there are a LOT of people willing to work for peanuts for ...job security ..prestige..( I work at such and such a place...) and a lot of places it's a bit cliquish...It's very improtant down here to identify where you come from...I always answer that I'm AMERICAN..as I was born and raised in the USA..and that get's under some peoples skin...they insist and they want to know my pedigree!...

I have been applying...and get frustrated when I give/send my resume and they call me in for an interview...we spend 1/2 hour talking about the job, location...my skills...and then they tell me...OH WELL, WE HAVE A PANTRY POSITION FROM 3pm to 11pm AND IT PAYS $8.00 an hour!

When right on the top of my resume it states the position that I'm looking for and it' s NOT in production nor pantry!

pantry worker is the one that is hauling the 50 pound bags of flour and sugar around...keeps the pantry supplies in order and such..very entry level.

So...I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place....Even though with JUST my certification from Peter Krumps I was offered a position in 1999 with an accredited cooking school as the bread teacher, a position I had to turn down as I felt not qualified to teach it.

Some of my chef instructors don't have a degree, but those are the Dinosaurs and they are getting replaced by ones with not only a Culinary degree, but with degrees in education.

sorry for the long reply!

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SugarCreations Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 5:41pm
post #13 of 16

Diva an instructor once told me that anybody can teach anything if they do their homework. He was once ask to teach a class he had no idea what it was about or how to teach it so he began reading all he could about it he taught the class and was ask to return to do it agian.

Anyway bottom line from what I have read of things that you have posted on CC there is not any doubt that you could have not taught that bread class.

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bonniebakes Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 6:28pm
post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarCreations

Diva an instructor once told me that anybody can teach anything if they do their homework. He was once ask to teach a class he had no idea what it was about or how to teach it so he began reading all he could about it he taught the class and was ask to return to do it agian.

Anyway bottom line from what I have read of things that you have posted on CC there is not any doubt that you could have not taught that bread class.





As an educator and former classroom teacher, I disagree. While "anyone may be able to teach something," NOT everyone can teach well!

However, whether or not you are formally trained versus self-taught is not what I think makes the difference in being good at what you do. There are many people in every profession who have formal education in that field and aren't "good" at it. Just like there are many poeple with less formal education in their area of expertise who are great in their profession!

(no offense, Diva... I didn't mean that you wouldn't be a good bread insturctor)

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ThePastryDiva Posted 28 Oct 2005 , 6:47pm
post #15 of 16

[quote


There are many people in every profession who have formal education in that field and aren't "good" at it.

Just like there are many poeple with less formal education in their area of expertise who are great in their profession!

(no offense, Diva... I didn't mean that you wouldn't be a good bread insturctor)[/quote]

No offence taken whatsoever. Bread is NOT my passion. I would've done the students a disservice by taking that position. I was honest with myself and the Culinary Director.

I was there as an invited Guest instructor and was demonstrating CAKE DECORATING TECHNIQUES.

In his need all he saw was the rapport I had with the students not my qualifications.

If I would've taken the position to teach something I wasn't passionate about, it would've made it for me a JOB..

A job that I would've eventually been unhappy in and the students would've not gotten the best I would've had to offer.

I am glad that I'm secure in enough in myself that I was able to say no..lol

Now, as a cake decorator...that's another story..even though every day I'm here I see so much that I still have to learn!

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copperppot Posted 29 Oct 2005 , 10:13am
post #16 of 16

Oh my. This poor soul will be so confused by the time this thing is over it will not be funny. You keep doing what you are doing. If your path does not include an expensive culinary education do not worry about it. And I beg to differ on teaching credentials. You can do anything you set your mind to its that simple do not let a simple piece of paper stand in your way.Advice is great. But the decision is yours.

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