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Original message sent by costumeczar
I only use an Italian meringue buttercream when I do meringues, it's fast and a lot more direct than a Swiss meringue It's also more stable, so that could be why people end up throwing confectioner's sugar into a Swiss meringue buttercream, that will kind of stiffen it a little.
I have read this several times, that IMBC is more stable than SMBC. What makes this the case? They are both egg whites, butter, and sugar. What makes one more stable than the other?
I am a meringue buttercream newbie, but I have successfully made SMBC twice. IMBC still seems intimidating because of the sugar syrup, but your video makes it look easy, so I may have to give it a try.
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I have read this several times, that IMBC is more stable than SMBC. What makes this the case? They are both egg whites, butter, and sugar. What makes one more stable than the other?
I am a meringue buttercream newbie, but I have successfully made SMBC twice. IMBC still seems intimidating because of the sugar syrup, but your video makes it look easy, so I may have to give it a try.
It's cooking the sugar that makes it stiffer. Most SMBC recipes say to whisk the eggs and sugar until the eggs are warm to the touch. Cooking the sugar to 240 and above removes more water from it so it isn't as soft. I take my sugar to 250 or 255 instead of the usual 248 that most IMBC recipes call for because it makes the icing a little stiffer.
When you cook sugar you're basically just removing the water from it. If you're really good with sugar work you don't need to add water to it to begin with, and it will just heat up a lot faster. Adding water to the sugar before you cook it is basically to give you more control over the process and to slow the heating process so that it won't burn. The hotter it gets as a syrup, the harder it will be when it cools off.
And if you totally forget that you have sugar cooking and you let it boil to the point where there is ZERO water in it, it ends up being carbon that will easliy flake off of the pan without leaving any mark. Ask me how I know this...
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Okay, all of you who fear IMBC...here's how easy it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYaYePGrc7c&list=UUDru9n0gVtJlapF93R1npSw
I just finished my chocolate cake, but more importantly my first batch of IMBC! It was delicious!!!!! I WAS eating it with a spoon, without the nutella.lol. Of course I added flavoring but it really wasn't so scary. I whipped, and dumped, just like you did, it turned out perfectly! SOOOOOO GOOD!!!
All those years of making & trying to perfect ABC and not one friend tried to stop me???? Friends shouldn't let friends ABC! So fantastic, light, creamy & NOT SO SWEET!
Thanks again to ALL & especially to you costumeczar for your awesome video (i totally had you playing in the background).
I just finished my chocolate cake, but more importantly my first batch of IMBC! It was delicious!!!!! I WAS eating it with a spoon, without the nutella.lol. Of course I added flavoring but it really wasn't so scary. I whipped, and dumped, just like you did, it turned out perfectly! SOOOOOO GOOD!!!
All those years of making & trying to perfect ABC and not one friend tried to stop me???? Friends shouldn't let friends ABC! So fantastic, light, creamy & NOT SO SWEET!
Thanks again to ALL & especially to you costumeczar for your awesome video (i totally had you playing in the background).
You're welcome, glad it helped! And you can add some ABC to meringue buttercreams to sweeten it up some if people like that. It kind of gives you the sweetness that people are used to with ABC but it keeps a lighter mouthfeel than ABC has on its own.
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You're welcome, glad it helped! And you can add some ABC to meringue buttercreams to sweeten it up some if people like that. It kind of gives you the sweetness that people are used to with ABC but it keeps a lighter mouthfeel than ABC has on its own.
Oops, I meant the mouthfeel that IMBC has on its own, not ABC.
A
Original message sent by costumeczar
It's cooking the sugar that makes it stiffer. Most SMBC recipes say to whisk the eggs and sugar until the eggs are warm to the touch. Cooking the sugar to 240 and above removes more water from it so it isn't as soft. I take my sugar to 250 or 255 instead of the usual 248 that most IMBC recipes call for because it makes the icing a little stiffer.
When you cook sugar you're basically just removing the water from it. If you're really good with sugar work you don't need to add water to it to begin with, and it will just heat up a lot faster. Adding water to the sugar before you cook it is basically to give you more control over the process and to slow the heating process so that it won't burn. The hotter it gets as a syrup, the harder it will be when it cools off.
And if you totally forget that you have sugar cooking and you let it boil to the point where there is ZERO water in it, it ends up being carbon that will easliy flake off of the pan without leaving any mark. Ask me how I know this...
I'm still a little confused. I hope you don't think I'm being dense... Water isn't added to SMBC, so is it that the chemical composition of sugar at 240ish is on its own more stable than at 160?
PS- yikes about the carbon flakes!
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I'm still a little confused. I hope you don't think I'm being dense... Water isn't added to SMBC, so is it that the chemical composition of sugar at 240ish is on its own more stable than at 160?
PS- yikes about the carbon flakes!
Yes, the hotter you cook sugar the more water evaporates from it, and the harder it is when it cools off.
If you look up sugar in wikipedia it explains it pretty well. Most sugars have the chemical formula CnH2nOn, so it's basically Carbon plus H2O. If you heat it the water (H2O) in it will start to heat up and will evaporate, which just leaves the carbon. The less water in the sugar the harder it is, which is why you cook it to make lollipops and hard candies. When I overcooked it to the point of it just being carbon I had evaporated ALL the water, there wasn't even enough of it to make it stick to the pan. It seriously peeled off like a sheet of paint or something.
If there are any chemistry majors who take exception to my explanation please feel free to pipe in. I could be totally wrong about why it happens like that, but that's how I understand it!
Basically, sugar has water in it to begin with, it just doesn't look like water.
A[IMG]http://www.cakecentral.com/content/type/61/id/3328467/width/200/height/400[/IMG]
[IMG][IMG]http://www.cakecentral.com/content/type/61/id/3328465/width/200/height/400[/IMG][/IMG]K, got my hubby's valentine's day cake done. He said, "don't freeze it, I'll eat it now", so went ahead and did it early. It's the Hershey's Chocolate cake recipe with that wonderful IMBC costumeczar showed. I have a little left over icing (made 2 batches so I could use as a filling), I really hope I can contain myself from just eating it, lol.
You know what's really good? IMBC with chocolate ganache mixed into it. Oh yeah.
ooohhh, you can do that? Is that legal? LOL So you can mix ganache into it, can you mix anything in it like carmel, fruit filling, cream cheese, stuff like that? I thought about using ganache as a filling, but since he just got an ice cream cake for his birthday & he isn't big on sweets (i know, he needs professional help ;) )I wanted to keep it light while still giving him his fav flavor cake.
I have never been able to get ABC so smooth on a cake! I used a hot spatula to smooth out the imbc & it ALMOST looked like fondant. I was pleased, as least compared to my "normal" frosting skills (or lack there of ) LOL. The decorating techniques are still somewhat new to me. Been baking a long time, but no fancy decorations. Didn't really turn out the way it looked in my head, but they rarely do. Wish it was something I could practice more.
When you all were still learning, how did you practice without constantly baking something? Can you use cake dummies for that sort of thing? Can you just scrape off your icing & reuse?
I am a complete convert, I will never go back...unless someone in family actually asks for it I suppose :)
Thanks again! 
AAbsolutely, you can use cake dummies, decorate them, then scrape off the icing and go again. When I was first practising, I had a "don't eat this" tub of buttercream that I just kept reusing. And yes, you can add any flavour you like to your IMBC or SMBC. I usually add straight melted couverture chocolate rather than ganache, but it's great with berry purée, Nutella, citrus curds, even homemade salted caramel sauce.
Cool,
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Absolutely, you can use cake dummies, decorate them, then scrape off the icing and go again. When I was first practising, I had a "don't eat this" tub of buttercream that I just kept reusing.
And yes, you can add any flavour you like to your IMBC or SMBC. I usually add straight melted couverture chocolate rather than ganache, but it's great with berry purée, Nutella, citrus curds, even homemade salted caramel sauce.
Cool, thanks! I will have to buy me a small cake dummy then! YAY so it is a very versatile icing. I knew Costumeczar mentioned nutella & ganache, so good to know you can REALLY play around with it :).
Again, you women ROCK!
Stop talking about icing... I want cake...
Costumeczar, great video. I like the bit where you say 'bam!' 
Cookienibz, world is your oyster when it comes to flavouring IMBC/SMBC- mix with ganache, or just add melted choc, nutella, fruit, jam, flavourings, etc etc. I've even made some mixed with homemade marshmallow fluff, then added mini mallows and used it as filling for chocolate cake. Yum.
Stop talking about icing... I want cake...
Costumeczar, great video. I like the bit where you say 'bam!'
Cookienibz, world is your oyster when it comes to flavouring IMBC/SMBC- mix with ganache, or just add melted choc, nutella, fruit, jam, flavourings, etc etc. I've even made some mixed with homemade marshmallow fluff, then added mini mallows and used it as filling for chocolate cake. Yum.
Absolutely, put anything you want in it. One batch of the recipe I made will take between 3-5 ounces of liquid so you can use liquers or anything else. Mango juice, lemonade, etc. I put molasses into it for a spice cake the other day, and that was REALLY good with chocolate cake too. I put peanut butter in it, cream cheese (that needs to be really soft when it's added or it will be chunky, and that's never a word you want to hear along with icing.) What else...apple butter, fruit oils, citrus curds, fudge fillings, melted chocolate, nut oils, whatever you can think of. yum yum!
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Absolutely, put anything you want in it. One batch of the recipe I made will take between 3-5 ounces of liquid so you can use liquers or anything else. Mango juice, lemonade, etc. I put molasses into it for a spice cake the other day, and that was REALLY good with chocolate cake too. I put peanut butter in it, cream cheese (that needs to be really soft when it's added or it will be chunky, and that's never a word you want to hear along with icing.) What else...apple butter, fruit oils, citrus curds, fudge fillings, melted chocolate, nut oils, whatever you can think of. yum yum!
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Stop talking about icing... I want cake...
Costumeczar, great video. I like the bit where you say 'bam!'
Cookienibz, world is your oyster when it comes to flavouring IMBC/SMBC- mix with ganache, or just add melted choc, nutella, fruit, jam, flavourings, etc etc. I've even made some mixed with homemade marshmallow fluff, then added mini mallows and used it as filling for chocolate cake. Yum.
YUM & YUM!!! I have a feeling my family is about to put on some weight,lol. I HAVE to try ALL of these,lol!
A
Original message sent by costumeczar
Yes, the hotter you cook sugar the more water evaporates from it, and the harder it is when it cools off.
If you look up sugar in wikipedia it explains it pretty well. Most sugars have the chemical formula CnH2nOn, so it's basically Carbon plus H2O. If you heat it the water (H2O) in it will start to heat up and will evaporate, which just leaves the carbon. The less water in the sugar the harder it is, which is why you cook it to make lollipops and hard candies. When I overcooked it to the point of it just being carbon I had evaporated ALL the water, there wasn't even enough of it to make it stick to the pan. It seriously peeled off like a sheet of paint or something.
If there are any chemistry majors who take exception to my explanation please feel free to pipe in. I could be totally wrong about why it happens like that, but that's how I understand it!
Basically, sugar has water in it to begin with, it just doesn't look like water.
A ha! You are a wealth of information. Thank you!
that little bit of Cream of Tarter that goes in @costumeczar recipe may also make a big difference.
ACream of tartar is an acid which helps the egg whites whip into a more stable foam, it affects the protein in the whites. You can also use a pinch of salt instead. I always use cream of tartar when making any form of meringue, including macarons.
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Cream of tartar is an acid which helps the egg whites whip into a more stable foam, it affects the protein in the whites. You can also use a pinch of salt instead. I always use cream of tartar when making any form of meringue, including macarons.
a little lemon juice will work, too.
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You all are GOOD!
Quick question, you seem to really grasp the science behind baking... In a video i saw about making IMBC, they added sugar to the eggs. Would the sugar have been used as a stabilizer, since they didn't use creme of tarter?
A
Original message sent by CookieNibz
ooohhh, you can do that? Is that legal? LOL So you can mix ganache into it, can you mix anything in it like carmel, fruit filling, cream cheese, stuff like that? I thought about using ganache as a filling, but since he just got an ice cream cake for his birthday & he isn't big on sweets (i know, he needs professional help ;) )I wanted to keep it light while still giving him his fav flavor cake.
I have never been able to get ABC so smooth on a cake! I used a hot spatula to smooth out the imbc & it ALMOST looked like fondant. I was pleased, as least compared to my "normal" frosting skills (or lack there of ) LOL. The decorating techniques are still somewhat new to me. Been baking a long time, but no fancy decorations. Didn't really turn out the way it looked in my head, but they rarely do. Wish it was something I could practice more.
When you all were still learning, how did you practice without constantly baking something? Can you use cake dummies for that sort of thing? Can you just scrape off your icing & reuse?
I am a complete convert, I will never go back...unless someone in family actually asks for it I suppose :)
Thanks again! ;-D
I have a little tip for dummy use. They're so light they can be a right pita to cover, so if you have a largish heavy board (a drum will do, or a piece of wood the right size) just whack 3 nails right through it in a triangle, then you can spear the dummy on them and it won't have you chasing it around the worktop.
Ooooh, awesome idea!!!! I meant to get down to get a dummy this week, but havent made it down there yet. I was always afraid to practice on them, I feared it would ruin my "practice icing". Of course that's before I was introduced to the wonderful world of SMBC & IMBC. They don't crust so no harm no fowl :) I will never get as good as you ladies, but i sure have fun trying to :). Funny, I thought my cakes were pretty good, until I joined CC, pft you ladies are awesome!!!! Bows to all the cake goddesses.
I know most of you ladies probably already know this, but in case a newbie, like myself, is reading this...
A lot of videos on youtube about SMBC & IMBC will say you have to use fresh egg whites for the icing to work properly. This is inaccurate. I did 1 batch of SMBC with fresh eggs, 1 with liquid egg whites, and 3 batches of IMBC with liquid egg whites. I couldn't tell a difference. Granted maybe i didn't notice because im a newb, but it was light, creamy and delicious . So if you're hesitant about using raw eggs, or just don't want left over egg yolks (even though some wonderful women have given great tasty ideas on how to use them up), you can use the liquid egg whites, still YUMMY :)
Thanks again to ALL the wonderful women on this thread willing to assist newbs like myself! I'm soooo grateful. I know it's just a hobby for me, but it helps relax me & is a great stress reliever. Learning new things keeps it interesting!
Thanks & Have a wonderful Valentines Day!!!
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I have a little tip for dummy use. They're so light they can be a right pita to cover, so if you have a largish heavy board (a drum will do, or a piece of wood the right size) just whack 3 nails right through it in a triangle, then you can spear the dummy on them and it won't have you chasing it around the worktop.
Quote:
I have a little tip for dummy use. They're so light they can be a right pita to cover, so if you have a largish heavy board (a drum will do, or a piece of wood the right size) just whack 3 nails right through it in a triangle, then you can spear the dummy on them and it won't have you chasing it around the worktop.
Ooooh, awesome idea!!!! I meant to get down to get a dummy this week, but havent made it down there yet. I was always afraid to practice on them, I feared it would ruin my "practice icing". Of course that's before I was introduced to the wonderful world of SMBC & IMBC. They don't crust so no harm no fowl :) I will never get as good as you ladies, but i sure have fun trying to :). Funny, I thought my cakes were pretty good, until I joined CC, pft you ladies are awesome!!!! Bows to all the cake goddesses.
I know most of you ladies probably already know this, but in case a newbie, like myself, is reading this...
A lot of videos on youtube about SMBC & IMBC will say you have to use fresh egg whites for the icing to work properly. This is inaccurate. I did 1 batch of SMBC with fresh eggs, 1 with liquid egg whites, and 3 batches of IMBC with liquid egg whites. I couldn't tell a difference. Granted maybe i didn't notice because im a newb, but it was light, creamy and delicious . So if you're hesitant about using raw eggs, or just don't want left over egg yolks (even though some wonderful women have given great tasty ideas on how to use them up), you can use the liquid egg whites, still YUMMY :)
Thanks again to ALL the wonderful women on this thread willing to assist newbs like myself! I'm soooo grateful. I know it's just a hobby for me, but it helps relax me & is a great stress reliever. Learning new things keeps it interesting!
Thanks & Have a wonderful Valentines Day!!!
AThis is my favorite smbc recipe evah! It is dead easy... like easiest of all mbc recipes I've tried. I make it batch and a half at a time using a combo of mostly butter with some vegetable shortening and/or coconut oil in my KA pro hd mixer it's like a cloud in your mouth... swear.
http://www.threelittleblackbirds.com/2011/12/swiss-meringue-buttercream/
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