First Wedding Cake

Decorating By JMart Updated 24 Jun 2014 , 8:49pm by enga

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costumeczar Posted 23 Jun 2014 , 10:45pm
post #31 of 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by snarkybaker 
 

We call them " Jobbyists". Hobbyists who have decided they are good enough to make it their job.

 

http://www.sugarlandchapelhill.com/blog/wedding-tip-week-6/

Best word ever.

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DeniseNH Posted 23 Jun 2014 , 10:48pm
post #32 of 45

We all commented truthfully (I did) - but don't forget she didn't ask for comments - she was so relieved that her first wedding cake was over  -  she felt comfortable sharing it with us.  If she was ashamed of it (which she has no reason to be), she probably would have asked us how to improve the next time.  But she didn't.  She didn't. 

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costumeczar Posted 23 Jun 2014 , 10:51pm
post #33 of 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeniseNH 
 

We all commented truthfully (I did) - but don't forget she didn't ask for comments - she was so relieved that her first wedding cake was over  -  she felt comfortable sharing it with us.  If she was ashamed of it (which she has no reason to be), she probably would have asked us how to improve the next time.  But she didn't.  She didn't.

That's what I'm saying, that kind of photo usually goes in the galleries, so I wasn't sure if she wanted feedback or not.

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-K8memphis Posted 23 Jun 2014 , 11:01pm
post #34 of 45
if she wanted critiques there's a specific forum for that--
 
i thought it was about the triumph of doing her first wedding cake
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snarkybaker Posted 23 Jun 2014 , 11:10pm
post #35 of 45

Right, but there are  about 400 supportive things you can say without "embellishing" the truth.

 

How about " OMG, I know, I had heartburn for a week before my first wedding cake delivery." 

Or, " I know, I could make cake all day, but once you put it in the car I'm a nervous wreck"

or "That was so generous of you to make a wedding cake for your friends' wedding."

 

This is a very sad byproduct of a generation who got ribbons and trophies just for showing up. And, it's this lack of standards that is going to hurt the economy on the long run.  Americans can only make crap for so long before no one will buy anything here. And, yes, I realize I've gotten off on a tangent here, but since the OP is from Michigan, I'll put it this way. I'm certain someone said " Great job on that new key design, Bob !" at GM 15 years ago or so.

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-K8memphis Posted 23 Jun 2014 , 11:23pm
post #36 of 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by snarkybaker 
 

Right, but there are  about 400 supportive things you can say without "embellishing" the truth.

 

How about " OMG, I know, I had heartburn for a week before my first wedding cake delivery." 

Or, " I know, I could make cake all day, but once you put it in the car I'm a nervous wreck"

or "That was so generous of you to make a wedding cake for your friends' wedding."

 

This is a very sad byproduct of a generation who got ribbons and trophies just for showing up. And, it's this lack of standards that is going to hurt the economy on the long run.  Americans can only make crap for so long before no one will buy anything here. And, yes, I realize I've gotten off on a tangent here, but since the OP is from Michigan, I'll put it this way. I'm certain someone said " Great job on that new key design, Bob !" at GM 15 years ago or so.

 

 

honestly, you should have pm'd the wicked offenders and not rained on her parade

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MBalaska Posted 23 Jun 2014 , 11:26pm
post #37 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMart 

"........ First wedding cake, summer in Michigan, butter cream,raspberry mousse filling and an hour drive to the venue................"

 

***** Congratulations!  Sounds delicious!

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by snarkybaker 

We call them " Jobbyists". Hobbyists who have decided they are good enough to make it their job.

 

Brilliant word,  snarkybaker, right on target.  reminds me why I don't do this as a job. Well done. gotta go......meds are kicking in....dreaming of cookies......wish I could eat one. damn three more weeks no cookies.  Wish I could have some of that cake......:ouch::ouch:

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bubs1stbirthday Posted 24 Jun 2014 , 12:06am
post #38 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarkybaker 
 

Like I said, I don't mean anything by it. I think that there are different standards for different occasions and events.

 

 

I just don't think you help anyone get better when you look at a cake that is 1- clearly leaning to the left, 2- each tier is a different height, 3- the buttercream isn't smooth, and 4- has some weird airbrush effect going on and say " Bravo, you!" 

 

If you did it for friends and they were happy with it, so be it. The bigger issue at hand is this forum tends to inspire people who have no business doing it to sell cake to unsuspecting innocents. Every single week, we end up with at least one or two cake emergency calls because someone hired a baker who had no business making cake professionally. We usually manage to pull it out. But, so much heartache could be avoided if forum members had the integrity to be honest.

 

I completely agree with you, I often see people post there pictures on here and receive only positive comments when there are obvious flaws with the cake (yes my cakes contain those same flaws but I am aware of that) and I think to myself "how will people improve if people don't offer constructive criticism".

 

When I first saw the cake I thought it was quite pretty but I also noticed that the piping work was not great and that the ribbon was bending and this suggests to me that there are perhaps imperfections in the icing of the cake. I didn't say anything as I don't have enough experience to know how to fix those problems so I had no advice to give the OP and I didn't think that there was any point telling her what looked wrong to me without offering advice to how it could be fixed.

 

Your first comment held no advice and only served to tell the OP that her cake was crap.

 

With your experience your advice would no doubt be valued by the OP, and if you don't want to hand out advice then you could still advise her of the areas that you think need improvement and make her aware that the cake is far from perfect without just being rude or you could just say nothing at all. 

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hbquikcomjamesl Posted 24 Jun 2014 , 12:43am
post #39 of 45

I have "embellished" precisely nothing. (I find myself thinking of that scene in Men in Black, when Agent K tells rookie Agent J, "Cool, whatever you say, slick, but I need to tell you something about all your skills. As of right now, they mean precisely... <vulgarity>.) At any rate, my comments on this thread, both on the cake itself and in rebuttal to "snarkybaker," reflect my honest and unvarnished opinions of the cake, at least so far as I can form opinions based on one picture.

 

And this thread is starting to remind me of another thread, not terribly long ago, in which my words of support to somebody dealing with both a family medical emergency and a disagreeable customer, apparently for no other reason than that they were something other than empty platitudes, were taken as offensive (but not by that thread's OP, who took what I said precisely as intended).

 

And as to "a ribbon just for participating," well, let me step off-topic for a moment and talk about figure skating competitions. There are, in the United States, two governing bodies for figure skating competitions: serious competitions, geared to seasoned, serious athletes, some of whom may be Olympic material, are run by United States Figure Skating, our ISU-member national governing body, and are organized by clubs; recreational competitions, geared to beginners and hobbyists, are run by the Ice Skating Institute, an international trade association for ice rinks, and are organized by home rinks. Many serious skaters compete in both kinds of competitions (and there are agreements between the two governing bodies to cover that), and near as I can tell (as one who has only competed in ISI), the reason for doing so is because ISI competitions, being essentially meaningless as far as the ISU is concerned, provide a place to relax and have fun. (I've applied Pancho's line, from The Right Stuff, about "prime pilots who get all the hot planes" and "<vulgarity> who dream about getting the hot planes" to the difference between the two; as a skater, as a musician, and as a cake decorator, I fall squarely into the latter category.)

 

In an ISI competition, it is impossible to place any worse than 6th place, because (1) the rules specifically state that anybody not placing 5th or better ties for 6th, and (2) the rules also strongly encourage competition directors to break up groups larger than 5-6 skaters (and expressly prohibit groups larger than 13). Likewise, in ISI, if a group consists of only one skater, it does not automatically become an exhibition/critique (as in USFS/ISU competitions), and neither does it mean an automatic first place (as no doubt happens in some other areas). Instead, the skater competes "against the book," requiring 80% of the possible score in order to receive first place (and prior to 2010, anything less than 60% would get you 3rd against the book). If I remember right, I've taken second against the book myself, and I know I've seen it happen.

 

Conversely, in a USFS/ISU competition, it is entirely possible for a single group to comprise dozens of skaters, split into multiple warm-ups, and lasting for hours, with precocious kids competing with young adults, and it's also entirely possible for a skater to go home in, say, 24th place.

 

There is a place for both kinds of competition, and as I've already said, I know a number of skaters personally, who skate both.

 

Just as there is a place -- right here in Cake Central -- for everybody from elite professionals who win big money in serious competitions down to beginners who have neither the chops, nor the ambitions, to be anything more than hobbyists. And there is both a place for being kind and generous with criticism, and a place for being blunt and brutal with it. But I see no place here for vague declarations that a cake looks "unprofessional," even in the Peer Review Cake Club thread (which this is not), without giving any specifics of why it looks "unprofessional."

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Sammy09 Posted 24 Jun 2014 , 2:52am
post #40 of 45

ASnarky! When I read your name I thought "Dynees Pink Champagne Strawberry Cake...." Agree with Snarky and CostumeCzar. Check out her book, it's a great dose of reality. Great read.

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Claire138 Posted 24 Jun 2014 , 6:50am
post #41 of 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbquikcomjamesl 
 

I have "embellished" precisely nothing. (I find myself thinking of that scene in Men in Black, when Agent K tells rookie Agent J, "Cool, whatever you say, slick, but I need to tell you something about all your skills. As of right now, they mean precisely... <vulgarity>.) At any rate, my comments on this thread, both on the cake itself and in rebuttal to "snarkybaker," reflect my honest and unvarnished opinions of the cake, at least so far as I can form opinions based on one picture.

 

And this thread is starting to remind me of another thread, not terribly long ago, in which my words of support to somebody dealing with both a family medical emergency and a disagreeable customer, apparently for no other reason than that they were something other than empty platitudes, were taken as offensive (but not by that thread's OP, who took what I said precisely as intended).

 

And as to "a ribbon just for participating," well, let me step off-topic for a moment and talk about figure skating competitions. There are, in the United States, two governing bodies for figure skating competitions: serious competitions, geared to seasoned, serious athletes, some of whom may be Olympic material, are run by United States Figure Skating, our ISU-member national governing body, and are organized by clubs; recreational competitions, geared to beginners and hobbyists, are run by the Ice Skating Institute, an international trade association for ice rinks, and are organized by home rinks. Many serious skaters compete in both kinds of competitions (and there are agreements between the two governing bodies to cover that), and near as I can tell (as one who has only competed in ISI), the reason for doing so is because ISI competitions, being essentially meaningless as far as the ISU is concerned, provide a place to relax and have fun. (I've applied Pancho's line, from The Right Stuff, about "prime pilots who get all the hot planes" and "<vulgarity> who dream about getting the hot planes" to the difference between the two; as a skater, as a musician, and as a cake decorator, I fall squarely into the latter category.)

 

In an ISI competition, it is impossible to place any worse than 6th place, because (1) the rules specifically state that anybody not placing 5th or better ties for 6th, and (2) the rules also strongly encourage competition directors to break up groups larger than 5-6 skaters (and expressly prohibit groups larger than 13). Likewise, in ISI, if a group consists of only one skater, it does not automatically become an exhibition/critique (as in USFS/ISU competitions), and neither does it mean an automatic first place (as no doubt happens in some other areas). Instead, the skater competes "against the book," requiring 80% of the possible score in order to receive first place (and prior to 2010, anything less than 60% would get you 3rd against the book). If I remember right, I've taken second against the book myself, and I know I've seen it happen.

 

Conversely, in a USFS/ISU competition, it is entirely possible for a single group to comprise dozens of skaters, split into multiple warm-ups, and lasting for hours, with precocious kids competing with young adults, and it's also entirely possible for a skater to go home in, say, 24th place.

 

There is a place for both kinds of competition, and as I've already said, I know a number of skaters personally, who skate both.

 

Just as there is a place -- right here in Cake Central -- for everybody from elite professionals who win big money in serious competitions down to beginners who have neither the chops, nor the ambitions, to be anything more than hobbyists. And there is both a place for being kind and generous with criticism, and a place for being blunt and brutal with it. But I see no place here for vague declarations that a cake looks "unprofessional," even in the Peer Review Cake Club thread (which this is not), without giving any specifics of why it looks "unprofessional."

 

That's interesting (I'm a skater too)

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lisatipperoo Posted 24 Jun 2014 , 5:37pm
post #42 of 45

But unfortunately comments like Snarky's are the reason why lots of new people are freaking scared to post here. I understand the constructive criticism, but part of being constructive is to offer the positives first, then follow with the items that need improving. Otherwise, you're just being offensive to the poster. I'm sorry, it's just how I feel personally. Comments like that, unwarranted, are the reason why I've held off from posting here for seven years. 

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FreckledCake Posted 24 Jun 2014 , 7:30pm
post #43 of 45

A

Original message sent by lisatipperoo

But unfortunately comments like Snarky's are the reason why lots of new people are freaking scared to post here. I understand the constructive criticism, but part of being constructive is to offer the positives first, then follow with the items that need improving. Otherwise, you're just being offensive to the poster. I'm sorry, it's just how I feel personally. Comments like that, unwarranted, are the reason why I've held off from posting here for seven years. 

It's not just how you feel personally, the method you describe is one of the most effective ways to deliver constructive criticism. A lot of people call it a "compliment sandwich". You don't have to embellish the positives, but pointing out even a small thing someone did correctly will tend to make them more open to your specific criticisms. "Brual honesty" is just that, brutal and is generally more destructive than constructive. If your goal is truly help someone, you don't resort to brutal honesty until they've proven not to respond to other methods.

It's not about making sure "everyone gets a ribbon", it's about treating people decently and with respect.

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cakeymom Posted 24 Jun 2014 , 7:47pm
post #44 of 45

I've been doing cakes for a while now and I know that I am no Ron Ben Isreal, but that does not mean that I am not proud of my work.

 

I am just as proud of my first Wilton cake class cake as I am the very last groom's cake that I did.

 

So, I would like to say that over time my skill level has improved and my cash flow has improved and afforded me more tools.  I look at tons of online videos and have researched my local library, as well as, buying dvd's.

 

Now concerning your cake.....I love the accents of purple that make the cake POP!  The scroll work is beautiful.  And to have driven an hour and not had a cake disaster in the summer speaks volumes!!!

 

Keep up the good work. 

 

 

And for the negative comments, I guess they were never taught that if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all.

 

Cakeymom

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enga Posted 24 Jun 2014 , 8:49pm
post #45 of 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMart 

I've been decorating cakes for ten years now, mainly for friends and family. This is my first wedding cake I've done ( I actually do cupcakes for weddings all the time). First wedding cake, summer in Michigan, butter cream,raspberry mousse filling and an hour drive to the venue. Glad it's over lol

IKR, my first wedding cake was lilac and cream 4 tiers (8 10 12 14) over kill for 150 guests. I thought I was going to have a heart attack getting it to the venue, I was so glad when it made it there intact. WHEW! Took the deepest breath when it was over.

 

You did a great job for your first!

 

Good luck with future ones!

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