My thoughts are that their is so many cake decorators with great talent that each state should give us a break on easier licenses. I mean if we bake at home why do we need like2-3 sinks, special plumbing I see no point to it. How can we get the point across to the goverment about lisences. We know that we have to get legal right? Like we can afford a cake shop! Like people who do have a kithen are willing to rent them!

It's hard and what better way to be leagal than not to be!!!!!!!!!

Yep, it would make life a lot easier.

In these days of easy litigation, it is likely to be more difficult rather than easier. The licensing entities are concerned with food safety and sanitation. They regularly inspect licensed kitchens. That is no guarantee, but it does help.

There are unlicensed home bakers with pets who are free to walk on the counters and shed hair where ever. And still more who haven't the least notion about food safety. Bleach, handwashing, food storage, all are a mystery.

I know of one baker that doesn't even know what 'cross-contamination' means. That is a bit frightening.

If you have ever seen a grease-trap, you will understand the plumbing issue. eeuuww.

Good luck finding the rules for Colorado. I would start with the local health department. they should know who licenses home-bakers.

I agree completely with JoanneB and I want to add that you have to use some common sense in this area! Would you really want to buy food from places that didn't have to be trained or inspected?

I understand what you mean... But at the same time, I see the need to require licenses...

By the way, I only do this as a hobby, because in Florida it is REALLY hard to get a license from your home.

You and me can be as clean as clean can be, but because others may not, the states have to regulate license to protect the consumer from people like this that do not follow good sanitary standards.

It also protects the cake decorators/bakers from suits from customers that want to take advantage.

It is also bad when things are made extra-hard for people who want to work out of their homes.. In Florida, like I said, its really tough. So, I gave up and considered doing this working for someone else but as a part-time or weekend kind of job.

I still do my cakes, but for my friends and family. Nothing more.

I tell you what, I'm going through the process right now and I agree it's a pain.

BUT

I'm also taking a serve safe class for culinary school and the stuff I've learned about how sick people can get and how easily it can happen if regulations aren't followed has made me wish that the health inspector would stop by a few houses I've eaten at! I won't give you the gory details but let's just say eeeeeeewwwww!

maybe instead we could get a tax break?

lol, what more of a tax break does a home baker want, when most ( and key word is MOST) don't report the extra income?

It's just as hard for a business to get permits and lic also.

In Florida, you have to submit your plans to the county, they have to be decided upon by a commitee meeting...when your plans are approved..with many changes sometimes people that open restaurants spend 150,000.00 and over 9 months going back and forth to make everything the way the County or city wants it. ( this is a new restaurant renovating a space....another guy spent 90,000.00 and 5 months getting his catering company, I was going to rent space next to his and EVEN he recommended for me to just rent the space..renovate is as I go and not get involved in getting permits..I really couldn't do that!!)

Then...after you make all the renovations, changes and install the equipment...you get another inspection..with the guy that gives you the "FINAL" approval. I'm not even going to discuss the fact that sometimes you must pay off certain people that can help you....

You have to have the walls covered with easy clean materials, a grease trap alone is between 12,000.00 to 15,000.00 and you have to not only have the plumber install it...you have to "dig up" the side walk to connect it to the public sewers..more money and permits.

Unless you're a small custom place then you can get a "portable" grease trap that still can cost 2 to 500 bucks and have the Plumber install it and Rotor rooter clean it.

You need to carry insurance, the minimum we have to carry is a million in liability!

Even though my rent is 2,000.00 a month and I have no storefront nor foot traffic...I feel I still got a deal because I have a "shared space permit".

Even though I spent between 12 to 15,000.00 in getting my space ready to open...I didn't have to do any extensive renovations and all my utilities are included, and my garbage remova is included in the rental!!

I have to come up with an idea to bring in an extra 1,000.00 a month to cover my rent increase of 500.00 extra dollars starting Feb 1st.. Can you imagine just HOW many cakes I have to sell to I have to cover my monthly rental? Never mind to make a profit?? ...and since it's so high I cannot afford to hire anyone right now!!

I would LOVE to be able to bake from home! or I'm even willing to "RENT" a seperate apartment, if I could...So, now you all realize WHY I'm so militant about this subject sometimes..lol

soooooooo....WHO needs a tax break???



( I need a break PERIOD!!)

I agree with everyone. I understand every view point made even with the laws. I do keep my kitchen very clean, my exhaust goes outside and I have passed the food safety test. I have no pets and I am married to an executive chef who strives on clean. I can't tell you the number of times I wash my hands, the counter ,the stove you name it while I am doing my baking and decorating, but there are those that don't and thats why it is harder for all of us who do to obtain the license. I wish the state would reconsider oand make it a littler easier and I would welcome the inspector to visit my home at anytime of the day. I would love to have my own quaint little shop but like a number of people its not possible with the cost of everything. I have found my passion and hopefully one day can fulfill it by making other people as happy as it makes me. My daughter is starting classes in February and she is only 11 and she is so excited. She wants to be my assistant.
Anyhow, maybe one day the laws will help us little people.

Alabama laws/regs are very similar to Florida.

I have a question: can you really get business-like cards printed with just your name and phone number to give to people? Would this fall under "advertising"?
For example, I took a cake in to the local High School for a friend of my Mom's. A lady there wanted my name and phone number and scurried around to find a pen and a piece of paper. Would being able to hand out a card be the same as someone writing it down for reference?

Yes, I get mine from vistaprint.com and they are cheap!

Calling cards, IMHO are not advertising, since they only have your name and number.

and it's an easy way to get your name and number out there, and easier to pull out of your pocket than a pen and paper when they ask you for the number.

and a nice way to get around that "NO ADVERT" rule! lol

I disagree about the calling card/business card...if you are handing out cards with your name and number and Telling people you do cakes - Then THAT is advertising. You just verbally sold yourself. So at that point - it doesn't matter weather you gave them a "calling card" or a business card.

If you are doing it - it is all illegal. So do it and hope not to get caught.

This is always a touchy subject. License bakers think it is unfair that home bakers get away with it since they took the time and investment to do it correctly.

And home bakers think its unfair that they can't bake from home and sell cakes.

So I say life is unfair in general - you can't make everyone happy - but you can make people sick. So follow the rules of safety and sanatation at least if you are baking from home.
So people aren't as clean as others!

Risquebusiness- Wow! I don't think I could have dealt with it as long as you did. My husband started out as a dishwasher and worked his way through the ranks. I believe you when you talk about chef Ramsey because I also work in a hotel and I have heard the chefs yell at the cooks. I asked my husband one night if he was a chef Ramsey and he said no, he said he would never treat anyone in a way he wouldn't want to be treated. I have kicked him out of my kitchen before trying to tell me what to do. My comment to him was excuse me, I am not your employee so get out of my kitchen.
I value your opinions on everything and I always refer back to questions that you have answered abd your cakes are awesome. I know when I read the comments talking about their animals walking around it horrifies me. I would love to come visit your shop one day.
My daughter said if she likes it she would love to be my partner when she grows up. My son would like to be the delivery driver. WOW I love my kids!
Faye

Wow, what a sensitive thread.

I am always afraid to post things because it seems the license bakers are always ready to pounce on you for not having one.

It would be nice if you could sell a few items just to see if you would enjoy doing this on a regular basis. Not just the free cakes you give to friend and family, do you want to deal with real customers.

Here in MI you have to have a seperate entrance, nothing you use in your home kitchen can be used where you bake for customers. Before I go to all that expense it would be nice to see if I really want to do this.

What happen to people using common sense. If I choose to buy muffins from a neighbor and I think they are clean enough to bake for me it should be my choice. If the baker is dirty then I should know not to buy from her.

I have worked in the food industry and I know if a resturant doesn't look clean then I shouldn't eat there. I have sat down only to leave because the resurant didn't look clean, or the staff look like they didn't practice good hygene. Nothing will turn me away like a dirty bathroom.

Taxes, yes. My husband just told me last night I should charge tax and report it on my 1040. Now if I do that are they going to investigate to see if I have a license.

I really have a problem with the government telling me where and what I can eat. McDonalds had the best french frys until the government pressured them to change them. If I am an adult and they are bad for me shouldn't that be up to me if I want to eat them or not?

If I want to eat something that was made in your kitchen that should be my choice. If I'm worried about where my food is cooked then I will go into a bakery where I expect it to come from a well kept kitchen because they are inspected.

Isn't it funny we can feed our family without having three sinks.

I agree with you Tracy, but...on this point..I can give the home baker a little slack..

There is a BIG diff from promoting yourself..( which if you're not lic..you should NOT do..) and giving someone that ASKS...a card with your name and number...

But, then again...If people want to find you..they will no matter if you live on the moon! lol

But...you are right also in the fact that you can never make 100% of the people 100% happy..

You JUST have to do the best you can with what you have..and YES, YES, YES...The rules of sanitation SHOULD and MUST be followed at ALL time, be it baking from home or a shop!

Jannette, no body is pouncing..lol You should read some of the other threads!!

This one..so far has remained civil!! but things can change! lol

Please, never be afraid to post..it's only an opinion and we all have one!

So, if yours is not the popular one for the day, so what? as long as you're not being mean to anyone!

I for one, love a good debate..( can't you tell!??) and welcome opinions and a good, lively discussion any time (factually based that is!) than some sugary sweet person telling me what they think I want to hear.

been around the block to many times to waste my time with that..

Not only did I write the book and get the T-Shirt...I got conned out of the movie rights on that one..

I for one am a big girl and can handle your questions and concerns!! so...feel free..oh..and if you are afraid to post..just PM me! ( I'm a little bit nicer there..)

There is a reason that it is hard to get licensed and it is to protect the public. I cringe when I hear that someone is sick and still made a cake to give a customer--spread of illness right there. People spread viruses not only by not washing hands which is gross but by being ill and preparing food by simply breathing on it (droplets). Some people don't know what clean is--I refuse to eat food from potlucks for that reason. My neighbor complained about that "dirt that is by the cabinets on the floor, you know about 1/2 from the baseboard that you can't reach with a mop." If you can't get it with a mop then get down there with a sponge! I clean my kitchen top to bottom and scrub everything alot of people just whip a washcloth around and call it good. It is hard for the state to have to inspect the restaurants that are there, being short staffed it would be impossible to inspect all of the homes too. If deficiencies are found then it means a return trip to re-inspect. Also you have to carry extra insurance on your home policy to cover liability for your business--a regular policy does not cover your home business.

I am an at home baker (just for friends and family) but I completely understand the side of the legal bakeries. How many times on this website alone have you heard people talk about the cat or dog walking on the cake - THEN asking for advice whether to serve the cake or not. GROSS!!!! Why is this even a question? This factor alone I think is reason enough for regulations and permits and licenses. I know how anal I am about cleaning and making sure the cakes I do are not contaminated or anything like that. And they're just for friends or family. I would be a nervous wreck it I actually "sold" a cake to someone. Honestly, it's the people that do it illegally that cause all the hardships for people trying to get legal. It only takes one person getting sick (from the least little thing) to make a stir.

Ok I have just one thing to say here. People are bringing up the pet hair thing... Ok I was visiting a PROFESSIONALS website viewing their pictures of cakes, they have a shop, they are licensed and all that, one picture had a piece of HUMAN hair on it plain as day! I know stuff happens and you can't always be sure you're not getting anything on it but a long dark hair laying ontop of a white iced cake... discusting! And for her to post it on the web even worse! I would never buy from her just because of that one incident. Whose to say there isn't something worse in the cake that she didn't notice?

Now as far as being licensed here in Maryland... I looked into it I called the Health Department before I started all this and they told me it was fine to sell out of my home and bake out of my home as long as I didn't advertise. No license needed in my county. But if I wanted to take out an advertisement in the newspaper, telephone book, or message board in a store etc. I would have to rent a space and have it inspected every 4 months or more. And even though it wasn't my space I would be responsable for it being up to code. Now she told me herself it isn't fair to do that but it's what they do. So I decided I can get by on "word of mouth" for now and if it doesn't pay off then I'll think about renting the space at the fire house or the church down the road. Both of which are within walking distance from the house we are moving into but it would still be a bit of a hassell. I like the fact that the Health Department gave me the OK to do this from my home, and to make a profit off of it.

The way I see it is, do we get to ask questions of those at a bake sale of how clean their kitchen is? or if it was baked in a legal shop? no we don't. And they don't have to be licensed either, they can make arrangements with WalMart or whomever and set up a table and sell till their hearts content without anyone complaining. So why is it home bakers get bitched at constantly for doing what our mothers and grandmothers did when we were young? I can remember having a bake sale in I think 3rd or 4th grade, mom made a bunch of stuff for me and my sister to take into school, there was never a worry then about germs or anything like that. And honestly I think the fact the FDA and the government have put so many restrictions on stuff is why everyone is so sickly now a days. If you think about it our mothers and grandmothers didn't have GermX or anything like it, but yet we carry it in our purses and in our cars and it's in almost every room of our house because god knows someones going to sneeze and we're going to die from it. We didn't have these scares years ago (I'm only 28 and didn't live like my daughter does) and we weren't sickly either. I think the fact that we are spending our lives worried about common germs is how not to get them is why we are so sickly. Our bodies are made to kill off these everyday germs and when you live your life without them and make it a point to kill them off before they get into your system it's making our bodies attack itself or anything else that they feel is harmfull because it's not getting the real harmfull stuff to attack. I'm not saying it's ok to sneeze into someones food but to take the steps most of us are taking, our parents and grandparents didn't wash the entire kitchen down with bleach before baking goods for a bake sale.... a simple wipe down of the counters was all it took and we didn't die from some horrid thing we caught at Little Susies house down the road because her momma don't wash her kitchen down in bleach everytime someone walks thru it and breathes in it.....

Don't get me wrong I have OCD and everything has to be clean and gets cleaned in between things so my kitchen is probably the cleanest room in the house and you could probably eat off my floors but I'd kill you if you did lol. But the fact that our kids are constantly sick should say something for the way we all live our lives about germs. We had mad cow and salmanilla (sp) back then but it wasn't the big of a deal because if we caught something our bodies were able to kill it off and fight it without killing us.... now we are putting so much into ourselves and sealing ourselves off from the world so we don't catch something that could possibly help us in the end... I was never sick when I was a child but my daughter is always sick.... she wears a coat even when it's not cold outside, she washes her hands with anti bacterial soap 10 times a day, she uses germX or something similar inbetween.... just because she's gotten used to it from school.... when we were younger we could run outside barefoot, we could share snacks and drinks and play in the dirt and mud and not die from it... so what's different now? The scare the government has put into everyone.

Home bakers are no worse then those who are doing it in a shop. You can come to our house to sit down and eat a meal with us for a get together or christmas dinner cooked in the same kitchen as that cake but you won't buy a cake from us..... I don't get it.... Anyway my 2 cents like it or don't I don't care it's my opinion and it's how I feel about everything.

I'm still kickin and so are my parents because they didn't over protect us from germs and the like but my kids and nephews and their school mates are always sick because they are protected so much from germs that it's in turn making them sick.... I say get over it and enjoy baking weather you did it from home or shop.

Becky

Talking about hairs...Ummm, I was actually talking to my husband about this kind of stuff, you know when you are cooking to make sure none of your head hairs falls into the food... Well, I tie my hair up to help with this, but that got me thinking:

Have you noticed in all of these TV shows, either it be cooking shows or baking/cake decorating shows that NONE is wearing a hair net, that I've noticed.

I saw this special show on cakes and they showed the people in the background mixing and baking cakes and I didn't see any hair nets. On some shows I see them and some I don't.

On the other side of cooks, you have Rachel Ray with all that hair bouncing around all over her food; you have Giada Delorentis also bouncing all over her food, same as Paul Dean, (well at least she has short hair ) etc.

I mean I know that you want to look glamorours for your TV show but... Oh, well, I don't know. What you all think?

Here is IN you have to have a seperate kitchen with all that entails and I'm not sure but I heard that it could not be connected to your home. BUT . . .I live in Amish country and you would not believe the little bake sales along a major U.S. road in my area! Am I to believe for a minute that all these little regular weekly bake sales catering to flea market traffic are coming from a legal kitchen?? I sincerely doubt it! This will be a debate until the end of time but it is certainly one that is frustrating for everyone that loves cake decorating, legal or not!

While I think some of the regulations are for health reasons, I think some of the regulations are ridiculous. WHY is it necessary to have a separate kitchen from home use? WHY is it necessary for a cake baker to have a grease trap? THESE things I think are just red tape for red tapes sake, and/or it's a way for the food industry to squelch the home bakers. They lobbied the law makers to put these extra regulations in place making it nearly impossible to get the requrements met from home...

Not only do I think they make it tough on purpose for home bakers, but also to discourage NEW store front businesses from popping up too... make it really hard to do, andyou limit the competition, see?

What I do think is that EVERYONE who is going to be cooking/baking from home should have to take a food safety course - online or in a real class. That's the best way to make sure people adhere to health and safety rules...

As a side, I have a funny/kind of sad story about pets and food businesses. When we were moving last time cross country (Iowa to Virginia) I was driving the car with the cat with me. It was summer and REALLY hot, so I couldn't leave him in the car when I stopped somewhere. I stopped at a rode side place and they wouldn't let me bring the cat inside, not even near the entrance is it's against code to have animals in the property. I was really stuck in a hard place!! There was no drive thrus and it was a LONG drive!!! I ended up sitting outside with my meal on a tray with the cat in his carrier beside me!!!

melissa

I always find this topic facinating, and I really only do cakes primarily for friends and family for cost plus maybe $5 (and sometimes I dont even cover the cost)....LOL but a few people have seen/eaten cakes I have done for family (ie baby showers etc) and asked me to reproduce it, its hard for me to say no because its not something they can go out and get at a store, but at the same time I dont LOVE decorating cakes, I would NEVER open a business because I hate the time & mess it makes to make one of the darn things......I only started messing around with this so I could make my niece's and my son's b-day cakes....that is as far as my ambition takes me! I just want to concentrate on being a stay-at-home mom, getting my "chores" done and raising a decent kiddo...

I can certainly appreciate both sides (and I totally understand the trouble it takes to get licensed)....and I am grateful that I am in a postition where I dont have to try and take on extra "jobs" for money (not that I am well off by any means, but I understand my choice to stay home means no new cars, no big fancy home, no shopping sprees etc).


I am a mess........I just keep on rambling! Have a great day everyone!