Employed Decorator, Are My Photos Mine?
Business By amartin1900 Updated 22 Nov 2013 , 10:18pm by JPinBklyn
I understand...and I've heard this topic debated for the 5 years I've been on CC. What I have not heard (yet) is a bakery owner that has taken an employee to court and it was determined by a real court, a real judge and a real lawyer that it was "illegal" to take a picture of the cake the employee decorated and post it on their website. I'm not trying to argue...really...I just have not heard of a real situation..just people on CC that say what is legal/illegal.
Does anyone know a real-life situation of this? I am curious...really. I should go crawl back under my rock and go make some more petit fours...that makes me smile. 
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Original message sent by ddaigle
I understand...and I've heard this topic debated for the 5 years I've been on CC. What I have not heard (yet) is a bakery owner that has taken an employee to court and it was determined by a real court, a real judge and a real lawyer that it was "illegal" to take a picture of the cake the employee decorated and post it on their website. I'm not trying to argue...really...I just have not heard of a real situation..just people on CC that say what is legal/illegal.
I doubt there will ever be a court decision on this...if someone ignores a C&D and talks to a lawyer, the lawyer will just tell them they don't have a case because of work for hire. The law is pretty clear on this, I'll include the link from the US Copyright Office again below.
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf
If you want to post the picture of a cake that is owned by your employer, you need permission, full stop.
I have always heard the same thing. But now I am curious. Without case law, is this rue written in to law anywhere? Not debating on either side...just curious?
AThere are several cases of "work product" ownership. I don't know of any that involve bakers or decorators.
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Original message sent by BatterUpCake
I have always heard the same thing. But now I am curious. Without case law, is this rue written in to law anywhere? Not debating on either side...just curious?
The role of case law is to set precedent that clarifies the court's interpretation of existing laws. There is case law around work for hire but it usually centers around the definition of "employee" vs. "independent contractor" and in which circumstances a contractor would retain copyright of work they do for someone else.
There's really no room for ambiguity in the case of a baker making a cake for the bakery she works for as an employee, since "work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment" is automatically work for hire.
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Original message sent by ddaigle
I understand...and I've heard this topic debated for the 5 years I've been on CC. What I have not heard (yet) is a bakery owner that has taken an employee to court and it was determined by a real court, a real judge and a real lawyer that it was "illegal" to take a picture of the cake the employee decorated and post it on their website. I'm not trying to argue...really...I just have not heard of a real situation..just people on CC that say what is legal/illegal.
Does anyone know a real-life situation of this? I am curious...really. I should go crawl back under my rock and go make some more petit fours...that makes me smile. :)
I know someone who was fired for this. It didn't go to court (because honestly, what employer is going to waste the time and money on that?!?), but losing your job can be pretty darn harsh. It's theft, and typically your gonna get fired for that unless its a substantial theft, than the cops get involved.
To the OP, I agree with posts above. Get it in writing to cover your butt. It's just not worth your job. Hope it all works out :)
If, in the OP's case, the bakery she works for allows its employees to take pictures of the cakes they create AT THAT BAKERY and lets the employees use those pics on their personal websites and/or social media...then IMO the owners of the bakery do not have very good business sense at all. What's to stop the employees from then charging less than the bakery would charge? The bakery loses money. Doesn't make sense to me at all. I would definitely get that in writing before you do it again just to CYA.
While I agree what your employer did was perhaps blurring the lines a bit, we have to accept that people actually do that all the time with their cakes don't they? For example, Mickey Mouse, or any other character, those are all copyrighted images. I don't think Disney is going to hunt you down for a copyright violation on a cake topper, but still and all, you are copying a copyrighted image if you put a Mickey Mouse on a cake.
What you're talking about though is employment law not copyright. What you are paid to create, design, etc in the world of cake, graphic design, or any other creative job is the property of the employer. Two wrongs don't make a right (legally or ethically). If you were paid, at a job, to design a cake regardless of the source design, that cake design belongs to the employer, even if your employer is a totally dishonest snake in the grass.
Several people tried nicely to make this clear, you don't like the answers you're getting, so let it go? Move on? Because these boards should be kept upbeat. These threads are super helpful to read, and it degrades the whole thing when the threads turn argumentative. When someone offers you free advice, whether you like the advice or not, really the only answer is thank you!
: )
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If, in the OP's case, the bakery she works for allows its employees to take pictures of the cakes they create AT THAT BAKERY and lets the employees use those pics on their personal websites and/or social media...then IMO the owners of the bakery do not have very good business sense at all. What's to stop the employees from then charging less than the bakery would charge? The bakery loses money. Doesn't make sense to me at all. I would definitely get that in writing before you do it again just to CYA.
I agree!
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