This has disappointment written all over it.
Are you licensed to sell baked goods? i.e., does your state/county/city have a cottage food law? If not, you can't legally accept compensation (money or ingredients) for a cake/cupcakes made at home. You could give it to them for free or not do it. It sounds like they don't have enought money for even the ingredients.
If you are accepting money or ingredients from someone to provide them with a cake or cupcakes, you are running a business.
Not sure if that is the legal definition of running a business but personally I don't see how someone buying ingredients for you and you making the cupcakes could be considered compensation - it is no different to someone buying materials for someone who owns a sewing machine and getting them to make a dress (apart from the health issues of course) You are not receiving compensation for your services at all - your service is the actual making of the cakes - which you are charging nothing for. You are not walking away with ingredients for your next cake (which could be considered compensation), you are walking away with nothing for yourself.
Seems to be that you shouldn't worry too much about it - if you are still free and they give you the ingredients to do the cupcakes (and you still want to do the) then do them, if not then don't. Don't feel pressured to keep that time free for them if they are messing you around.
AIt's the health issues that are exactly the problem. That's who will come at you for running an illegal business, the health department. It's up to the local dept to decide at what point it becomes a business transaction, not the baker or the client.
A
Original message sent by bubs1stbirthday
Not sure if that is the legal definition of running a business but personally I don't see how someone buying ingredients for you and you making the cupcakes could be considered compensation - it is no different to someone buying materials for someone who owns a sewing machine and getting them to make a dress (apart from the health issues of course) You are not receiving compensation for your services at all - your service is the actual making of the cakes - which you are charging nothing for. You are not walking away with ingredients for your next cake (which could be considered compensation), you are walking away with nothing for yourself. Seems to be that you shouldn't worry too much about it - if you are still free and they give you the ingredients to do the cupcakes (and you still want to do the) then do them, if not then don't. Don't feel pressured to keep that time free for them if they are messing you around.
Business: The purchase, sale, or trade of goods in an attempt to make a profit. Occupation, Profession or Trade. A person, partnership or corporation engaged in commerce, manufacturing, or providing a service.
Whether its a well run or profitable business isn't the question, it's still considered a business if she's accepting money or compensation of any kind.
Not that, that's the point and this topic has been discussed to death here.
AThe only reason I bring it up, aside from the safety issues, and the practicing on clients cakes, etc. It can hurt her. If she wants to run successful business (part time, homebased, I don't care) she could get shut down before she gets started. Honestly, she's stressed out about a cake that she isn't making any money off of. She's actually losing money, electricity, boxes, etc. that's all I'm trying to say.
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Oh Yeah, this is a scam that the mother/daughter pair are running on the baker. They want it for free.
A
Original message sent by MBalaska
also I've tried that "they [I]buy the ingredients and give them to me[/I]" game, to bake a cake for someone. They gave me old, weird nasty cheap crap that made the cake fail. Awful mistake.
At this point you have a couple of options:
A) decline the order all together. You can tell the girl this is obviously causing a problem between her and her mother and it would be better for everyone involved (including your husband) if she makes other arrangements for the cake.
B) Give the cake as a gift
C) Put your foot down. Tell the girl if she really wants you to make the cake then YOU will purchase the ingredients and she needs to give you the money. Give her a firm deadline for getting the entire amount to you in cash and make sure she knows if she doesn't come up with it you will not be making the cake. Make sure there is enough time for her to be able to come up with some kind of alternative.
At this point you have a couple of options:
A) decline the order all together. You can tell the girl this is obviously causing a problem between her and her mother and it would be better for everyone involved (including your husband) if she makes other arrangements for the cake.
B) Give the cake as a gift
C) Put your foot down. Tell the girl if she really wants you to make the cake then YOU will purchase the ingredients and she needs to give you the money. Give her a firm deadline for getting the entire amount to you in cash and make sure she knows if she doesn't come up with it you will not be making the cake. Make sure there is enough time for her to be able to come up with some kind of alternative.
I thing C) is the way for me to go. I've already told her that I need a FIRM commitment by X date and I NEED the $ in my hand to get the ingredients IF she still wants me to make the cupcakes. The last time I did this....well, that's why I started the thread.
I just don't want my husband to come running back with a sob story about how she can't afford/find anybody else to do anything because that's really leaving her son in the lurch. It's not fair to him. Maybe I have to learn to stop inserting my feelings, I don't know. I know he "offered": my services as a favor to her, but he honestly has no concept about all of the stuff we've discussed in this thread.
I think this girl needs to grow up, put her big girl panties on and take charge of this. If she can't afford all the ingredients then she has no business wanting to get pizza for everyone, discount or not. She thinks that a discount is obligwted to be given to her and those that do, do it out of the goodness of their heart. I would not go out and buy what is needed as you do not know if you will be paid for your expenditures and even if they say they will, maybe they won't or give you a lesser amount. It is obvious that your husband is not aware of not only the money involved but the time and effort that it takes to make anything. I would tell your husband to not volunteer your services, not volunteer a discount for merchandise and just to let you know about inquiries of a possible order. In this case I would say, Run and just forget about it!
First, you need to show your husband this thread. Second, he needs to keep his business and your caking separate. At some point it's going to cause a problem for him at work. Or if he feels so bad for her then HE can give you the money for the ingredients and supplies, plus some cash to compensate you for your time. Otherwise he should stay out of it.
Next, if this girl cannot afford a cake from you then there is NO reason this girl or her mom cannot go to the grocery store and pick-up a box of cake mix and can of icing and make some cupcakes themselves. Will it taste as good as yours or look as professional? No. But if you're on a budget then that's what you do. Or you order a sheet cake from the grocery store or Sam's Club. Just because she WANTS something cute does not mean she is the entitled to it. The kid is 3. If he has a cupcake with some sprinkles and a candle he will be happy.
I just don't want my husband to come running back with a sob story about how she can't afford/find anybody else to do anything because that's really leaving her son in the lurch. I know he "offered": my services as a favor to her, but he honestly has no concept about all of the stuff we've discussed in this thread.
If your husband has no concept of what's required, then it is up to you to graciously provide the education, exactly as you should be doing for a cake recipient that wants a fondant design made from buttercream. He may think that: a) my wife will be grateful for the opportunity to make a cake, b) it's only flour and sugar--how long/expensive/difficult can it be?; c) my wife can "whip up" this cake in an hour.
Perhaps you could use the example of YOU volunteering HIM to paint the interior of a friend's 1200 sf, 3 bedroom home, to be completed in the same time frame as this "cake order".
Is the friend going to pay for the paint, painter's tape, drop cloths, brushes, cleaning materials, waste disposal of the old/unused paint?
What color does the friend want? Different colors in each room? Walls and ceiling different colors? What type? High gloss, semi-gloss, eggshell, matte, oil, varnish, shellac?
What if the friend changes his/her mind about the color choices and type of paint 3 times BEFORE the job starts? What if you find out that paint is twice as expensive as you thought it would be? What if you find out that there are five layers of wallpaper in the bedroom that he/she forgot to mention?
What if you finish the painting in flat/low-gloss/Behr white paint with a reddish undertone (Behr Paint # 7498), and he/she says, "it looks pink! It needs to be done again. My wife/girlfriend/mother doesn't like it."
Apti, Hee hee hee. Love your analogy. There's definitely a need for some husband-education here.
I do too 
I was discussing this thread with some friends earlier today. Their overwhelming response was, "If she wants the cupcakes so badly, there;s nothing stopping her from purchasing cake mix and baking batches 6 at a time herself. That's what many mothers who are short on money do!"
They have a point. All the son is going to remember is "dinosaur", not the cupcakes themselves. I'm very tempted to tell her that.
AI think you should send her this tutorial and say it's probably easier all round if they just do it themselves.
I think you should send her this tutorial and say it's probably easier all round if they just do it themselves.
http://www.mycakeschool.com/blog/dino-is-ready-to-party/
That's kind of cute, actually!
She originally wanted something like that on a 50-cupcake scale, but then there was the whole deal with her tiny oven and not having the money for the bags and tips and what kind of icing, yadda-yadda...my husband's heart is sometimes too soft for his own good, and that's exactly why he volunteered me :headdesk:
They're both working tonight. I haven't had the chance to tell him about this thread, but I certainly will.
AI can't believe I'm actually posting this on a cake site, but they sell tips that you can attach to the tubes of decorating icing in the grocery stores, they're right next to them and cost maybe $2. She could do cut up fruit leather or something for the spikes. It could be extremely easy to do if she let it.
Oh boy, I've got an update.
1. I talked with my husband about all this. The bottom line? Don't volunteer me without consulting me first.
2. He had no idea about all the implications posted in this thread. He says he now understands, but I'm remaining a bit skeptical because...will he remember all this the next time? I used the "painting a room" analogy that was mentioned (sorry, I don't recall who posted it at the moment). Oh. Ohhhhhh.
3. I sat down with her and said, "If you still want me to make these cupcakes, I need a firm date and time when you need them. If you want me to put picks in them, you need to buy those. I need the ingredients by X at the latest, and I will tell you right now that if anything you say changes between now and then, we'll call this off because frankly, I'm tired of being jerked around, and it's really unfair to me." She was totally, absolutely stunned. I thought she was going to cry, to tell you the truth.
4. She got back to me a day or two later. Yes, she still wants the cupcakes, Yes, she'll have the ingredients and picks to me by X. And, oh, btw, my grandmother is also getting a cake.
5. So I said, "Oh, she is? How big a cake?"
6. "Oh, not really big but not small either. It's going to be in the shape of a dinosaur. But I still want the cupcakes because she says the cake's really more for decoration."
7. "Gee, I guess you're going to be really drowning in cake then between that cake and cupcakes."
8. :insert look of utter shock here:
Let's see if she gets the ingredients. If she does, these are going to be very very very VERY simple cupcakes, and I've certainly learned my lesson.
ASo her grandmother is paying someone $$$ for a custom cake and your stuck doing her custom cupcakes for $0 stings doesn't it!
I'm glad you stuck up for yourself!
A
Original message sent by Smckinney07
So her grandmother is paying someone $$$ for a custom cake and your stuck doing her custom cupcakes for $0 stings doesn't it!
I'm glad you stuck up for yourself!
So her grandmother is paying someone $$$ for a custom cake and your stuck doing her custom cupcakes for $0 stings doesn't it!
I'm glad you stuck up for yourself!
I really question whether or not the grandmother is paying $$$ for a custom cake, to tell you the truth. I didn't ask, but I'm dying to know.
1. I talked with my husband about all this. The bottom line? Don't volunteer me without consulting me first. YAY!
2. He had no idea about all the implications posted in this thread. He says he now understands... I used the "painting a room" analogy that was mentioned Oh. Ohhhhhh. YAY!
"And, oh, btw, my grandmother is also getting a cake. . It's going to be in the shape of a dinosaur. But I still want the cupcakes because she says the cake's really more for decoration."
Let's see if she gets the ingredients. If she does, these are going to be very very very VERY simple cupcakes, and I've certainly learned my lesson. YAY!
The disturbance in the Force is no more.
Both wiser, now you and your husband are.
I would probably tell her that now that you've thought about your conversations, you think it's better if you don't do the cupcakes, First (and whether or not you want to share this with her is up to you), I wouldn't want people comparing my cake/cupcakes with other cake/cupcakes. Second, she is going to have waaaayyyy too much cake. Third, this just sounds like it's becoming some sort of personal issue/struggle between the mother and grandmother and do you really want any part of it?
I would tell her that since she's going to have plenty of cake you would rather she save the money for something her child is really going to need - new clothes, new shoes, groceries...
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