The bottom line that I'm seeing in almost every single posting is that bakers and cake decorators, especially the less established ones, are trying to be paid a monetary value for ALL of their time, talent, skills, supplies, and expenses.  Plus, in trying NOT to lose money on your ingredients and costs and to NOT overcharge the customers you are over analyzing things TO DEATH.  Cake Decorators have the very same problem that EVERY crafter has had from the beginning of time, if you FULLY charge for ALL the time and skill that you spend on each and every product, no one would ever be able to afford your product.  Unless you're one of these Bakeries to the Stars and the Rich and Famous, you yourself will NEVER be rich and famous.  As a hobby baker in my home I do sell my cakes when friends, family and referrals come to me.  I will NEVER get rich doing this.  Just trying to calculate the cost of your utilities such as electricity and/or gas if you have that in your home, your water (think of washing ALL those dishes and cake pans - the thing I HATE most in the world about decorating cakes, washing the pans), heck, even the cost of my cable hookup in the kitchen to keep me company while I spend HOURS in there working on the projects, the phone and/or Internet access so those customers can contact you, the computer, the printer to print the bills and the estimates, etc.  AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN COME TO THE CAKE SUPPLIES YET.

 

 Then you have the cake pans, especially if it's a NEW cake you've never done before and you have to invest in that cake pan or new molds or new tools.  The cake decorating supply companies are releasing new tools such as molds, textured mats, fondant cutters, plungers, and so on and so forth every week.  Think of the MASS variety of cupcake papers and wraps out there, the edible dusts, glitters, pearl dusts, sugars, sprinkles, edible pearls, gems, diamond wraps, jimmies, sprays, and my head is starting to hurt trying to think of every thing.  Next is your baking tools, your mixers, spatulas, spoons, racks, and on and on.  Are we now ready to get into the ingredients?  For some they're able to buy their supplies such as flour, sugars, butter, shortenings, extracts, flavors, baking powder, baking soda, salt, cocoa powder, all at wholesale prices.  I'm fortunate, I have some local businesses that allow me to order my bulk items such as flour, sugars, etc., through them at wholesale cost.  That makes a MASSIVE difference especially in things  like cream cheese which I use in MOUNTAINS for the cheesecakes I do and sell.  Then, some things I get at the bulk warehouse places like Costco and finally, I have my items such as my EXCELLENT vanilla and some other ingredients, which I'm VERY specific about, I use some of the very best people can buy, which cost me a great deal.  This is one reason I believe my cakes taste better than the average homemaker can do. I'm sure there are numerous things many of you can add onto this list which I haven't even mentioned such as the cost of gas and the wear and tear on your vehicles.  

 

Now I do a great amount of baking and donations to my church and various fundraisers and also activities, some weekly that we have there.  I make ZERO money on these things, in fact, I lose money.  However, that is my personal choice of what I wish to do for my church and the work we all do.  Some, major fundraisers I do declare on my taxes but I don't believe I see much of a benefit tax-wise for that.  So you see, if you try to calcuate EVERY small tiny little piece of what goes into baking and decorating the cakes and any other item you may do you will NEVER, for as long as you live have it 100% accurate.  Even if you had it perfect next week you would have to redo everything with the changing costs of products and expenses all the time.  Where I  live gas just spiked up quite a bit in the last few days.  Finally, how much is your talent worth?  Now mine wouldn't be as much as some as I'm not a professionally trained pastry chef.  I've had numerous Wilton classes and other tutorials, but no formal training.  I've had about 50 years of baking experience if you count I started helping my great-grandmother do things as a small child.  Truthfully I feel I am a better baker than I am decorator but maybe that's because I feel more comfortable baking so far, I've been doing it longer.  

 

All any of us can do is charge a fair and reasonable price for our work and at least for me that is not set in stone for any one.  I do far too much for nonprofits and fundraisers and I don't like to charge them an outrageous amount if I charge at all because this often comes out of people's own pockets.  I live on the philosphy that what goes around comes around and if I try to do some good in this world hopefully it will come back to me too.  It has in life I believe already and other than sitting on the beach reading a good mystery, there's nothing more I would rather be doing than be in the kitchen baking so for me it's a joy.  Don't get me wrong, I have my moments like I had the beginning of last week when I was doing my first SHEET cake.  I have learned one thing about myself, I HATE sheetcakes, especially quite large ones as this one was.  I realized that EVERY cake decorating idea and design I've ever learned and done has been for a layer cake or shaped or tiered cake.  That great big white empty canvas and I did NOT get along very well together.  I struggled SO badly with that cake and I was NEVER so glad to see the back of a project in my life.   So ladies (and any gentleman that might be out there), first enjoy what you're doing and my advice is, if you don't enjoy baking and decorating cakes, then find another hobby or small business because people aren't going to change or get any better and very few of us will EVER become wealthy doing this.  Best Wishes and Happy Baking! 

Thanks Pam, your story is certainly shared by many. I've seen folks at both extremes and you have some valid points. Everyday on this forum we see new members join CC for the sole purpose of learning how to make money selling their cakes. Many have tried with little success. However, there are definitely people who successfully run their businesses to make an income. And some do reasonably well, even when the market is saturated with hobby bakers who only want to break even. 

I agree to charge reasonable price for buttercream iced cake with simple buttercream decorations. But these days cakes become not only as food for people, but sort of like entertainment. Do people eat fondant? No. Do people eat gumpaste flowers, decorations or fondant figures? No. Why do they want fancy looking cake? Pretty pictures, lots of WOWS!!! So, they have to pay for an entertainment just like everywhere else because some one is working hard to deliver it.

APeople eat my fondant. Just throwing that out there. :) Not everything has to be inedible on top of the cake. A homemade fondant can taste wonderful. ;)

Doesn`t it cost more to make homemade fondant? I know my friend makes fondant out of marshmallows, it tastes good. My 12 year old son likes to eat gumpaste.

A

I can't figure out what you're trying to say, but your statement just proved that cost [B][I][COLOR=blue]doesn't[/COLOR][/I][/B] determine price. Price is[B][I][COLOR=blue] not [/COLOR][/I][/B]based on cost.

I wasn't taking about fruit cake. For a custom decorated cake , it would be a waste of time to also weigh it when base price is based on volume and you already know the volume of the cake because of the size pans you used.

Boy you have that right about people wanting the most BIZARRE things going by what cake shops are creating on television.  Lately I've been watching the show every day "Amazing Wedding Cakes" and even though the great bulk of the projects are WAY over my head I have been surprised of the little things the professionals do for some things that have been or will be a help to me in the future.  Even though it's been 4 Christmas holidays since I began my Wilton classes (that's how I count my time in cake decorating, by the number of Christmas seasons that have passed - I know, it's weird) I didn't do my first wedding cake until this year for a March 1st wedding.  And then, I came right out and told the young couple and her parents that it was officially my first wedding cake and I could NOT do anything elaborate or complicated as you can see on the TV shows.  All I know is that by the I delivered the cake with the help of a VERY dear friend who was there for me when I DESPERATELY needed some help and someone there (to calm down my panic attacks) I FELT like a authentic cake decorator as I had as many crisis and problems as the ones on television seem to do.  In fact, I even said that to the friend that if that part of cake decorating makes you official, then I'm there.  I got lost looking for the venue due to poor directions and bad street signs (thank heavens the wedding was running a good hour late itself so I was fine in the end), at 5 am that morning things weren't going right in the decorating plans so I was just "winging" it and hand-piping it on which turned out to be the best in the long run anyway, and too many other problems (correction - learning experiences) to mention here.  

 

All joking aside, it WAS a tremendous learning experience and I would probably REALLY enjoy spending a week being free labor as an intern at a professional shop but I will never be a threat to any professional baker.  I have fibromyalgia which if anyone knows anything about it SERIOUS fatigue is just one major factor of living with this annoyance in life.  After doing that wedding cake I pretty much decided that I couldn't even survive doing one of those a week.  Now perhaps it would become less stressful and easier as I got more into the swing of things and worked out more of a system but for now a project like that will be every ONCE in a while.  I'll stick to much smaller things for the time being. 

I can't find the original posting from the lady who said she sent in the gingerbread cupcakes to work and hardly anyone said a thank you.  I WONDER??????   Is there the possibility someone might have "taken possession" of the great bulk of them and taken them home or could one or two people made PIGS of themselves and ate most of them?  If this behavior for your co-workers is out of character I would come right out and ask people if they received one or.....next time someone brings up about you bringing in things.....come right out and say that the last time you sent some things to the office no one acknowledged they had even existed so you now have second thoughts about bringing things in for people.  TRUST ME!  Word will get around SO FAST it will make your hairdo go wonky, especially if you work with a lot of women, you know how they LOVE to gossip at work.  You will have MADE your point and it probably won't happen again the way it did this time. 

I got a call today from a "desperate" (her words) mom who needs a birthday cake for her 7 year old for this Saturday. She "just" wants a 6 inch "smash type" cake in the 80's theme- to include a fondant Roller Skate Topper and neon colors. She also needs 30 cupcakes, each in different neon colors with 80's themed toppers like pacman, rubics cube etc.

 

Okay, here's the punchline for this story! I told her there would be a minimum charge of $65 for the cake and $20 for the Roller Skate topper, plus $3.00 each for cupcakes with small fondant toppers.

She said she was still waithing for "bids" and that my prices were way too high, she had one bid from a guy who said he would make her cupcakes for $1 and the cake for $15

 

I told her have a nice day and good luck!

Oh, she also said that she had found plenty of pictures on Pintrest of the roller skate and they didn't look that hard to do!

Oh wow!

I just had a phone call from a woman who asked about a cake for 2 weeks time. I told her I might be out of town (true) She then asked me to please let her know as soon as I know if I will be in town bc although she's asking around other bakeries and is not sure she'll take from me she still wants me to let her know so that she can make her decision and then let me know......

A

So are you canceling your trip to wait to hear back from her???

:grin:

Nancy

I'm the sucker who makes the cakes for work and gets very few Thank yous.  The stupid thing is that they will tell all their mates, families etc how wonderful the cake was that they had at work that day and I hear back from strange sources but they rarely say it to me.  In fact hubby was talking to a local doctor one day and he said he would treat him for free if he got an invite for dinner as he had heard all about my cooking from a work mate.  Compliments in round about ways.

 

Latest annoyance though is that there is only one person in the department who ever washes the cake plate.  Next time I am going to put a big sign in front of the cake saying if they don't wash the plate they are all on a diet for the rest of the year.  The problem is that I am not really making the cakes for them.  If I ate all the cake that I make (cos I love to bake and eat) I would end up the size of a barn.

AHad a customer want a cake. I was on vacay but emailed her price and told her I'm on vacay. Asked her to call me if she wanted to order it. She said she wants to meet. I told her I wouldn't be back until this date but ican refer you to someone else. Sends nasty email as to why inwoukd lead her on. And that two other (insert ethnicity) here have blown her off and I'm unprofessional. I respond. " hi. In my initial email I stated u was on vacation and have answered all your emails promptly. I gave you price and flavor info when you requested a meeting I again stated I was out of town but understood some customers wanted a face to face consultation that is why I offered to refer you to someone else.

Bringing someone's ethnicity into this is not professional.

She emailed back and apologized. Still not doing the cake.

I'm guessing that's why the other two blew her off.

Good Dirty story Bubs1stbirthday :-)

 

so as to what not to say to a baker, I'm thinking of including the ever present "Oh that's just the BEST cake ever'" & "It doesn't taste like a store bought cake or a box mix cake made at home."

 

I tested this exclamation today on someone, and threw them off their game.  Probably not the kindest thing possible to do to someone, but just exactly how do you know if it's truth or frivolous puffy nonsense??  So I said that of course I made it at home from fresh ingredients, and I can tell the difference as a baker.  But tell me how do you know it's fresh?  What difference do you taste?  How do you tell them apart?

 

She stopped and thought and said that it was moist, with good flavor, and it was not dry or stale tasting.  Ok I'm happy with that. because when something is not good I want to know just what was bad so I can make it good.  For example I recently tested a new cake recipe, first time. Six people said it's good.  One person said you know the icing (SMBC) was so incredibly creamy and delicious that we (I noticed the WE part) we just thought that it made the cake look bad.  I didn't care for it.

Love Love Love the cold hard truth. I thanked her handily, applauded her courage to speak plainly, and took a different (and proven delicious) cake to her for her reward.  (Tossed that new recipe in the trash.)

A

Then it is obvious you first responded to my "two cents" post without first reading it because I did state that everyone here sells fruitcake by the pound but custom cakes are priced based on job costing. I was responding to suggestion that we a ought not focus on the cost on the inputs as it suggested that people are incompetent at calculating costs and marking up to get that price. As for the last paragraph that you said you didn't understand, it is merely highlighting that there is a significant different in mark a up because of the type of incomes that people earn here in this small economy. It does not as you suggest, prove that cost does not not determine price. Maybe management accounting is taught and approached differently here. At the end of the day you still support the same point I'm making as your Points support charging by size.:) Will have to follow your advice and check other discussions to try and make sense of charging a custom cake by servings.

@basketpam we definitely have to have a love for what we are doing, regardless of the profession. Makes the difference between a passion and a stressful job. :)

ALike a barn. Lol. I gained a but if weight recently under the stress of school. Principals wife walks up to me and says ...oh you getting fat man, all that cake and cheesecake that you eat. I just laughed and said it wasn't the cake but the stress from her husband and herself. I don't think a surgeon gets a lot of surgeries so why do they think a Baker eats a lot of cake? My cake scraps go out in alcontainers to aunt. She just gobbles them up lol

Speaking of surgeries, a fellow caker had a surgeon call for a purse cake & Jimmy Choo shoe box and gumpaste shoe for his wife's 50th birthday.  Party for 200.  When she gave him a quote, he said, "You would think at that price that you went to medical school."  

 

She told me that she went livid and told him that he had no qualms about charging thousands of dollars or surgical procedures of which he spends less than an hour on, doesn't have to buy the instruments (hospital provided), doesn't have any prep work, doesn't have to clean up, and doesn't have to deliver the patient 50 miles round trip once the surgery was over.  

 

He apologized and tipped her 100.00 when she delivered.  

Nice

I think that it should go down as a 'CLASSIC' motto and be put on one of those screensavers.

This is such a great thread! I haven't read through everything but had a quick question for fellow bakers out there, especially those that have a business or charge.

 

I have a friend who is pregnant and a while ago we discussed cupcakes, cake pops, etc.; possibly even gender reveal cupcakes.  By now, though, she already knows her baby's gender (girl) and she's never gotten back to me about ordering cupcakes or cake pops.  I even offered to throw her a baby shower but she said people were already throwing her a baby shower.

 

I have a cupcake business as a side business, which she knows. However, over the last few weeks she's texted me multiple questions. She asked me about pink luster dust, and even asked to borrow some.  Then I got a text about a "recipe for the icing I use to swirl on my cake pops". (I told her that it's chocolate)  I've tried to be as nice and patient as I can, especially since we her and her husband almost every week at our house for dinner.

 

I'm wondering if anyone else has come across this situation and what they've done about it?

 

My husband said not to worry, it's not like she's trying to take over.  I said I'm not worried about her taking over, but usually if someone doesn't know how to do something, they hire a professional.  I told him, I don't walk into Panda Express and ask for their recipe because I'm craving Orange Chicken.  I buy the darn Orange Chicken!

 

Thank you in advance!