Why Am I Worrying About Copyright Laws...?

Business By Amberwaves Updated 29 Jan 2015 , 1:46am by tdovewings

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cakelove2105 Posted 29 Apr 2014 , 6:44pm
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Quote:

Originally Posted by costumeczar 


It depends...most of the businesses that I have them from are one-use things. I've done Jack Daniels, Old Bay, Nike, can't think of others but they all said okay for one use, and that was after i called and spoke to actual people in their legal departments, not just emailed them.

The sports teams will usually give you permission to do a certain number per year without paying them royalties. I have letters from some football teams to allow me to do three or four per team per year. Baseball teams are complete douches, they make it really difficult, but you have better luck calling than writing. I should blog about my "delightful" experience with the Phillies, that takes more time than i have now.

Colleges are hit and miss. Usually they'll say that if it's for an alum they look at it as a gift to the graduate, but some of them are really specific about the logos and pictures of the mascots that they want you to use. Some want to send you a letter to keep on file, some will say one use only.

Disney, Nickelodeon, No way. Disney has a very long vetting process and it's expensive to get a license. Every single Frozen cake you see clogging up your facebook feed is probably illegal. I've had people either get permission or not from Angry Birds...some of the little kids' shows on PBS are lenient about it...Star Wars used to be very lenient but Disney bought that too, also Marvel comics, so I assume that those are verboten now.

In general you'll have more luck calling the business or team directly than you will by emailing them.

:eek: this is so complicated. I never thought that to make a cake on a character or trademark we needed to take so much steps in order to not get in trouble. I really thought there was not issue with that.

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costumeczar Posted 29 Apr 2014 , 11:13pm
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Quote:

Originally Posted by cakelove2105 
 

:eek: this is so complicated. I never thought that to make a cake on a character or trademark we needed to take so much steps in order to not get in trouble. I really thought there was not issue with that.

It's just being honest and not using someone else's intellectual property. People who don't care and violate copyrights seem to change their tune really fast whe someone steals their cake photos. It's okay for them to use other people's characters but when someone uses their stuff they pitch a hissy fit.

 

On the other hand, it can get stupid when people have a fit because they "invented" a cake design (that's been done a million times before in other places but they took credit for it) then get pissy when someone does something similar. The cookie thing from a few years ago comes to mind...There's also a girl who sells wafer paper butterflies on Etsy who has some disclaimer on her listings that says these are her original idea and to not copy it. Uh, no, it's not. Just because someone says they own something doesn't mean they do.

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howsweet Posted 30 Apr 2014 , 2:46am
post #123 of 140

AI don't disagree about the laws, but I do disagree about your comparison. Isn't making a Micky Mouse on your cake a little like copying a cake design? When somebody takes a picture of a cake you did and claims they did it, it's not quite the same as making a cake with Micky Mouse on it. What I'm saying is that no one thinks you're claiming you came up with Micky yourself. And you're not pretending you can make a cake you can't. I don't know - that's all kind of murky. But I'm [B]not[/B] saying that's an argument that it's ok.

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Shnaw2006 Posted 3 Jun 2014 , 7:06pm
post #124 of 140

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr_Hfuhruhurr 
 

 

Actually, I think you might be taking things a bit too far here. 

 

First, a point of distinction:  For the most part, what everyone here is really talking about is trademark law--not copyright law.  Copyrights are intended to protect creative works and expression, while trademarks allow companies to protect logos, slogans, etc.  Sometimes, it's possible for something to be both copyrighted and trademarked (e.g., I believe Disney trademarks and copyrights some of its character work), but not always.  The XBOX console is a perfect example.  The XBOX logo is not eligible for copyrighting because it contains only plain typefaces, text, and simple shapes.  It is trademarked, however.  The trademark prevents you from reusing that logo, but it does not prevent you from creating something similar--even in the same typeface.

 

As for the shape of the console itself, it's possible that it's been trademarked, but I don't know.. The machine is certainly patented, and the design patent might be inclusive of the console's shape.  However, it's basically a white square.  You're not in violation of any trademark or patent laws for making a white, square cake.  Even if you were to label it an "X-Station" and put a little controller next to it with colored buttons.

 

It all comes down to what you're comfortable with, obviously, but don't be so quick to assume that everything you've ever seen on a store shelf or advertised on TV is under lock and key.  Many aspects of these products are often ineligible for protection, and savvy bakers are likely to capitalize upon your decision to play it so close to the vest.  Take the time to consider any customer requests, and do the appropriate research.

Thanks for posting the difference, it helps make more sense.

 When I was working for a bakery in a large grocery store we had the decopacks we could use but the store manager also told me that I could make anything that looked like licenced characters as long as the color wasnt quite true or the shape was a little different. Does that fall under the trademark law rather than copyright? Maybe it has to do with the stores' agreements with the companies I dont know. I am doing cakes at home now and I just want to make sure I am not infringing on anything when I make cakes for fun.

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ugcjill Posted 4 Jun 2014 , 1:23pm
post #125 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shnaw2006 
 

Thanks for posting the difference, it helps make more sense.

 When I was working for a bakery in a large grocery store we had the decopacks we could use but the store manager also told me that I could make anything that looked like licenced characters as long as the color wasnt quite true or the shape was a little different. Does that fall under the trademark law rather than copyright? Maybe it has to do with the stores' agreements with the companies I dont know. I am doing cakes at home now and I just want to make sure I am not infringing on anything when I make cakes for fun.

Nope, the way it was explained to me by my lawyer, this doesn't pass the red face test. If you're copying enough of it that you can recognize what it's supposed to be, you're violating the copyright and/or the trademark. In other words, your face will turn red while you plead your case to their lawyers. AND, even if you are using decopack characters or purchased and legal items on your cake, you're still not allowed to post the picture of it to your website unless you have permission to use the image. I have made perfectly legal cakes and I blur the toppers for my website images. This rule applies whether you're charging or not.

 

It may be different in some cases, but I'm not too legal saavy with these things. I aim for the most narrow definition possible and follow it carefully. I'm too small to step on the toes of the big corporations.

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Shnaw2006 Posted 4 Jun 2014 , 8:57pm
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Quote:

Originally Posted by ugcjill 
 

Nope, the way it was explained to me by my lawyer, this doesn't pass the red face test. If you're copying enough of it that you can recognize what it's supposed to be, you're violating the copyright and/or the trademark. In other words, your face will turn red while you plead your case to their lawyers. AND, even if you are using decopack characters or purchased and legal items on your cake, you're still not allowed to post the picture of it to your website unless you have permission to use the image. I have made perfectly legal cakes and I blur the toppers for my website images. This rule applies whether you're charging or not.

 

It may be different in some cases, but I'm not too legal saavy with these things. I aim for the most narrow definition possible and follow it carefully. I'm too small to step on the toes of the big corporations.

Thanks for the clarifying. I hadnt ever really thought about it until I heard someone mention getting in trouble over it. Since then I have been trying to narrow down the right and wrongs of it. LIke you I am too small to fight the big corporate stuff so thanks again

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enga Posted 12 Jul 2014 , 9:41pm
post #127 of 140
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cakelove2105 Posted 27 Oct 2014 , 9:16pm
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I have another question on this topic, when you buy edible logos from another business (Amazon.com for example), and then put them on the cakes you sell, are you breaking any law?

 

I was looking for a logo to put on one of my cakes (because is sport team themed and I did not want to get in trouble) in this website,and noticed that the post said this on the bottom "Please note: Characters in these images are free. You are paying for our services in creating, customizing, and printing them in edible paper for your own personal use. Images remain property of their respective copyright holders and may not be resold"

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? 

 

any thoughts?

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maybenot Posted 27 Oct 2014 , 9:40pm
post #129 of 140

That type of double speak is trying to lay the blame directly back on you IF there's a problem. 

 

It's kind of funny, really, because THEY are re-selling a copyrighted image.  They try to get around that by saying that it's for your "personal use".

 

The way I see it, if you buy it and use it on your child's personal birthday cake, then the printer is the only one in trouble.  You buy it and then sell the cake with it on....you're both open to trouble.

 

People like this Amazon seller--and all the Etsy & Ebay sellers, too--should be reported to the sites, as well as to the businesses that THEY ARE SO BLATANTLY RIPPING OFF!

 

For a sports team, you can often contact them and ask directly if you can make a cake using their logos.  I've done it with Mizzou and it was quick & easy.  I got a "one time use" permission for a groom's cake.

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cakelove2105 Posted 27 Oct 2014 , 9:56pm
post #130 of 140

Quote:

Originally Posted by maybenot 
 

That type of double speak is trying to lay the blame directly back on you IF there's a problem. 

 

It's kind of funny, really, because THEY are re-selling a copyrighted image.  They try to get around that by saying that it's for your "personal use".

 

The way I see it, if you buy it and use it on your child's personal birthday cake, then the printer is the only one in trouble.  You buy it and then sell the cake with it on....you're both open to trouble.

 

People like this Amazon seller--and all the Etsy & Ebay sellers, too--should be reported to the sites, as well as to the businesses that THEY ARE SO BLATANTLY RIPPING OFF!

 

For a sports team, you can often contact them and ask directly if you can make a cake using their logos.  I've done it with Mizzou and it was quick & easy.  I got a "one time use" permission for a groom's cake.

That's what I thought. Thanks a lot maybenot.

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HeartStrings2 Posted 28 Oct 2014 , 1:15am
post #131 of 140

The keyword in this post is RESOLD.  When you purchase the image, you have permission to use it on cakes that you are making for yourself or making for FREE - you cannot resell the image.  So, in otherwords, if you purchase this image and put it on a cake, then sell the cake - it's illegal.  The same goes for Wilton character cake pans, licensed cookie cutters, etc.

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cakelove2105 Posted 28 Oct 2014 , 3:57pm
post #132 of 140

AI want to share that I contacted by email the trademark owners for this sport team and they replied with "you may use our logo" is this enough? Or should I get something more accurate like a letter for example?

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maybenot Posted 28 Oct 2014 , 6:44pm
post #133 of 140

I would say that if you are confident in the person/department that you contacted, then go ahead with the cake.  Print copies of your e-mail & their reply and hold onto it.

 

If you can get a phone contact for the person or office, I'd also call them to verify and then e-mail them reiterating the content of the phone conversation.

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HeartStrings2 Posted 28 Oct 2014 , 7:08pm
post #134 of 140

I agree with Maybenot...print and keep the emails, plus follow up with a phone call, noting the person you spoke with and their position and the content, date and time of the conversation.  

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cakelove2105 Posted 29 Oct 2014 , 2:19am
post #135 of 140

Thank you HeartStrings2 and Maybenot :)

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MissionCity Posted 11 Jan 2015 , 11:48pm
post #136 of 140

Argh, I feel the same way! I am SOOOOO frustrated that the *legal* edible artwork for copyrighted images is generally crappy. I really think I can execute the characters/logos in fondant and they would look better. But I made the same decision NOT to do that, for the same legal reasons.

 

If the issue is over royalties, and profiting over someone else's copyrighted artwork, I wonder if it would be legal for me to 

1) purchase a sticker or other non-edible printed version

2) using food markers and parchment paper, or other means, trace out and cut the design out of fondant?

 

In doing so, I would have purchased the copyrighted artwork. Just, the artwork I purchased wouldn't end up on the cake directly. What do we think, legally?

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Jedi Knight Posted 12 Jan 2015 , 12:30am
post #137 of 140

AGood try, but no go.

You've still made the logo.

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MissionCity Posted 28 Jan 2015 , 4:54pm
post #138 of 140

AA couple of questions for this thread. First, I've tried emailing companies to get permissions to use their characters. The only one who ever replied was Mojang; otherwise it's been a black hole. Does someone have a good phone contact list for popular trademarked character owners that they'd like to share?

Second, I've noticed that many companies have official printables on their websites. I take this as tacit approval to print them for personal use. If I print these on buttercream sheets, is that any different? I may include the cost of the materials as part of the cost of my cake, but if I don't charge the client, I don't see how this particular way of reproducing the character would be a violation, since the company put if there specifically for people to print. Thoughts?

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Pastrybaglady Posted 28 Jan 2015 , 5:50pm
post #139 of 140

AMission: the printables are for private use. The problem occurs when you want to profit from using it as in selling a cake with a particular image on it. It's like how Wilton makes pans with licensed character but specifies it's only for home use not for commercial use. As for these "black holes" you can consider no answer the same as NO. You must have expressed permission. It's very difficult because all kids want their favorite characters on their cake. The law is the law. You can try to get around it but it's risky.

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tdovewings Posted 29 Jan 2015 , 1:46am
post #140 of 140

I have  gotten some "yeses", but I've never asked for a child's character. For me, it's corporate gifts, where one company want to send something to another company with both their logos on it or one of their logos on it. I usually call both legal departments and get a one time use permission, with the agreement that I won't use it or advertising, on my website, etc. 

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