Then items they have drawn off the $500 (and it could be quite a few) come through and BAM snowballing of NSF fees and overdraft fees that can easily run into the hundreds.
Easy solution: use a credit card and pay it off every month. It should be pretty simple to ensure that you have enough available funds (i.e. cleared checks) in your business account to cover a CC bill once a month. Presto, no snowballing NSF fees, the only thing you would need to recoup is the initial bounced check fee.
Is there a specific reason you're using a debit card instead of a credit card?
Had a mom accidentally write me a check off a closed account. The funds had already been appropriated. What comes in goes out, no profit on dedicated funds...I was left with a bevey of NSF charges to the tune of over $1800!
I'm sorry that happened, but that speaks more to an account management process in need of improvement. Incoming checks aren't your money until they clear, if you keep that in mind you will never again trigger NSF fees on your end.
If a check bounces AFTER someone gets a cake...in our day, most people don't have enough honor about them to still take the responsibility for the bill, and the baker gets stuck.
You'd be surprised. I've had customers bounce checks twice (out of 500+ orders), and both times they already had their cake. I had no problems recovering the balance of the orders plus twice the NSF fee, as both incidents were mistakes.
People who maliciously pass bad checks are more likely to purchase staples, durable goods, or items with high resale value with the bad checks, not wedding cakes.
If you are really extremely worried about it, you could open an account at her bank and deposit it there. Do they still make those transfers immediately?
I know it sounds extreme, but depending on the amount of money and your height of uneasiness, I'd probably consider it.
I mean no offense but we'd do 500 orders in a real slow month.
Jason, these days money is not ever easy. Yes so too that money on that fricken check is mine. I dad gum worked my arse off for it. I ain't babysitting those funds for them.
You can't write someone a payroll check with a credit card.
You can charge back a credit card just as easy as you can bounce a check.
You're young yes?
Yes so too that money on that fricken check is mine.
From an accounting perspective, it's not yours until it clears. You can try spending it before it clears, but then you run the risk of incurring NSF fees.
You can't write someone a payroll check with a credit card.
Correct, but many other charges can be taken care of with a credit card, and most small bakers don't have payroll. There's really no reason to use a debit card instead of a credit card (unless you can't qualify for a CC), a debit card is much riskier.
You can charge back a credit card just as easy as you can bounce a check.
I don't see how that is relevant, since we're talking about paying vendors with a credit card, not accepting credit cards from customers.
You're young yes?
I'm 31, but again I don't see how that's relevant, and frankly it's a little insulting. How would you like it if I asked if you were old? 
I'm 59. 
My daughter will be 31 in 8 days.
You just sound so young, my friend. I don't see being young or old as insulting--sorry you got your toes stepped on. Hey, I sound real young on the phone-lol.
I'm glad you were able to recoup on the bouncers.
Thank you for explaining about the nsf fees.
Geez, its like every time I open a thread this week, I have somebody trying to pick a fight. haha.
The check did not come today, which means I will probably not make it to the bank in time to cash it tomorrow, which means Monday at the soonest. Hub said "Make sure you check the postmark to make sure she really mailed it when she said she did." Which I will. I feel like saying "How would you like it if I honored your contract in the same way you honored it?" I have gone out of my way for this couple twice for tastings as well. And the bride has not returned my email either, regarding her mother's late payment.
This is so unfair...but its my own fault...I should have had some guts and stood up to her yesterday. Because I didn't, now I have to wait and see what happens.
Oh well. Lesson learned. Let's hope its not an expensive one.
Basically on Monday if I can't get cash from her bank, I'm calling her and demanding cash. No cash in hand FIVE days before the wedding, no cake.
Geez, its like every time I open a thread this week, I have somebody trying to pick a fight. haha.
The check did not come today, which means I will probably not make it to the bank in time to cash it tomorrow, which means Monday at the soonest. Hub said "Make sure you check the postmark to make sure she really mailed it when she said she did." Which I will. I feel like saying "How would you like it if I honored your contract in the same way you honored it?" I have gone out of my way for this couple twice for tastings as well. And the bride has not returned my email either, regarding her mother's late payment.
This is so unfair...but its my own fault...I should have had some guts and stood up to her yesterday. Because I didn't, now I have to wait and see what happens.
Oh well. Lesson learned. Let's hope its not an expensive one.
Basically on Monday if I can't get cash from her bank, I'm calling her and demanding cash. No cash in hand FIVE days before the wedding, no cake.
Yes! 
That sounds great.
But I'd pull the plug today. Why not. Get it over with so you don't have to deal all weekend and wonder and I mean Monday you gotta start concentrating on this cake yeah?
And I hope this all works out with the least amount of drama possible.
I am only reading this story. You are living it. You know when something just doesn't seem right? It's usually NOT RIGHT. I think you are in for some big headaches from this one. It sounds like she has already breached the contract. Put on your BIG GIRL PANTS if you are going to do this as a business. Call the lady and give her 24 hours for CASH. Tell her she will be responsible for letting her daughter down. No cash no cake. Sometimes you have to get b-tchy. Be FIRM when you talk to them.
Basically on Monday if I can't get cash from her bank, I'm calling her and demanding cash. No cash in hand FIVE days before the wedding, no cake.
Many people are uncomfortable sending cash through the mail, a cashier's check or money order would be good alternatives (sent via UPS or other trackable means, not USPS first class).
[quote="Kitagrl"Basically on Monday if I can't get cash from her bank, I'm calling her and demanding cash. No cash in hand FIVE days before the wedding, no cake.[/quote]
I hate to say this but I don't think that's going to happen. If the check is made out to your business, then you can only deposit it. If it's made out to you personally then you might be okay, but if it is a different bank than one you have an account at, be prepared to have them charge you a fee.
What's in your contract? Mine says either I have the money 30 days before the wedding or there is no cake.
Are they past the due date for when the money was due? If so, then I would call MOB and tell her that her check has not arrived and she needs to bring you cash or unfortunately you will not be able to make the cake. Explain to her that you are abiding by the contract. If the check hasn't arrived for you to cash then the money should be in the account.
I would try and take care of this today or it's going to make you crazy all weekend.
I worked hard to get out of debt, not interested in getting a credit card. They can pay cash or with their own credit cards. Just not going deal with checks. End of story. I haven't lost one order or one studio client because I don't accept them so why take the risk?
[quote="Kitagrl"Basically on Monday if I can't get cash from her bank, I'm calling her and demanding cash. No cash in hand FIVE days before the wedding, no cake.
I hate to say this but I don't think that's going to happen. If the check is made out to your business, then you can only deposit it. If it's made out to you personally then you might be okay, but if it is a different bank than one you have an account at, be prepared to have them charge you a fee.
What's in your contract? Mine says either I have the money 30 days before the wedding or there is no cake.
Are they past the due date for when the money was due? If so, then I would call MOB and tell her that her check has not arrived and she needs to bring you cash or unfortunately you will not be able to make the cake. Explain to her that you are abiding by the contract. If the check hasn't arrived for you to cash then the money should be in the account.
I would try and take care of this today or it's going to make you crazy all weekend.[/quote]
Right now the contract says "If final payment is not paid on or before the due date, cake service cannot be guaranteed".
Of course, I don't have a copy of the signed contract, either...just a $100 deposit. The due date was this past Wednesday, the 27th.
I think I'll shoot her an email tonight (I'm not feeling that well, and up to my neck in cakes today) and then call her tomorrow, just saying the check did not arrive today and by arriving tomorrow it won't be able to be cashed (or even deposited) until Monday at best....so really to tie this up I need the cash in hand. I'm very uncomfortable with the fact the bride does not seem concerned enough to email me and I really did go out of my way to accomodate them...as the bride is out of town and I arranged my schedule TWICE to help them with tasting and figuring out what they want, because of the dates they happened to be in town.
So I really need them to do their part.
I worked hard to get out of debt, not interested in getting a credit card.
If you pay off your credit card in full every month, you will not incur any debt and you will not pay a dime of interest. In fact, many credit cards will give you a 1-3% rebate on your purchases, plus you get to take advantage of floating your bills for a month on the credit card company's dime.
They can pay cash or with their own credit cards. Just not going deal with checks. End of story. I haven't lost one order or one studio client because I don't accept them so why take the risk?
Again I was referring to paying vendors with credit cards, not accepting them from customers. But since you mentioned accepting credit cards from customers, the fees you are paying to accept credit cards are the equivalent of 3 out of every 100 customers bouncing a check where the funds cannot be recovered.
It is of course your decision as to which payment methods to accept, and in some cases the ability to accept credit cards may actually win you business over a competitor, but don't discount the guaranteed loss you are absorbing by giving 3% of your hard-earned money to MC/Visa.
I just emailed them (both) requesting they bring cash by tomorrow since I did not get the check today. Having cash tomorrow is still going to make the payment almost four days late.
I tried to be really nice but just sort of tried to make them see that I don't really have a choice...I know she promises me that the check will be "good" but I don't know anyone who would admit otherwise. I told them they are such nice people that I was sad that money has become an issue like this.
So...we'll see what happens.
I guess it just shocks me that people will put a deposit down and then be so careless as to the final payment and risk losing the deposit AND the entire cake...and I hope it turns out fine because in our day, if you make someone mad, even if it wasn't your fault, they will get online and try to trash your business.
Wise and crafty merchants add the processing fees into the cost of the goods. Nothing is 100% bullet proof. We all just gotta do the best we can.
As I am in Australia, our banking system is slightly different (in that you can't get cash for a cheque in your name immediately, and it even takes 3 days to clear a depposited BANK cheque!!!)
I was just wondering if any of you deal with Paypal? I have a Paypal account, and in this sort of a situation, a client could pay me using their CC and I would receive the funds immediately in my Paypal account, because THEIR CC's bank is now carrying the risk of repayment.
Kitagrl - you make awesome cakes and you sound like a lovely person, with great integrity as a business person. I hope this works out well for you, but I think you need to do EVERYTHING possible BEFORE the wedding to get your money. If that means driving to a hilltop to get better cell reception, or using a landline somewhere, then I would do it. I would be leaving those clients in no questionable understanding of what will happen, ie NO CASH = NO CAKE. Do not just send emails - these ppl are avoiding you.
I run a home-based specialty cake operation too, and all my written, final quotes come with a section on how payment is made. I prefer DIRECT DEPOSIT on all payments. $100 up front deposit to secure a wedding date, and then I say "yiu can make as few or as many deposits you like for the balance, however the account must be completed NO LATER THAN one month before your wedding date". Now, I am no hard-arse either, and I dislike confrontation. Because in the majority of cases the bride is flat out busy in that last month. BUT...it gives me a whole month to make a call, and send an email or two to remind them to pay up. I find as soon as I am talking to them directly, they pay up. Emails gets ignored.
Having said that, out of interest I would ask for a read receipt whenever I send these ppl an email. (not that its foolproof either).
Also out of interest...in the USA is it the 'done thing' to make direct deposits into another person's account? They can do this with ANY of their cheque, savings or credit accounts, but YOU get the money - and you BOTH get confirmation with your bank statements or transaction records - immediately. It can take a day or so for the transfer to go through, but usually its the same day. I was just wondering why its not something I hear of much reading these forums? For me, its my preferred way of transacting money, as I rarely need to step into the branch of my CU anymore.
You observed correctly, Evoir, it is not a 'done thing' here to deposit directly into someone's bank account to make a payment.
I wonder why that is? I mean, I understand that the cheque/check culture is a lot more prevalent in the USA, but the banks here have made it pretty untenable to deal with personal cheques these days. They charge a LOT more to clear them, a LOT more for you to draw them, and the dishonour (NSF) fees are unbelievable! I think in general we are being encouraged to shift to the much cheaper methods of transacting funds (ie electronically). I think my main appreciation of direct transfer of funds is that both the client and myself get an immediate verification of the transaction that is on both our bank records and statements. No cloudy areas, insufficient funds problems, or timing issues like waiting for a cheque to clear.
Having said that, a lot of Australians have enormous CC debt. I think its something like $1400 for every man, woman and child on average. I am with you though on using CCs effectively - I get up to 55 days free credit as I pay off my CC every single month without fail. It costs me nothing for that credit facility.
Uh-huh...there goes dem alarm bells clanging again.
So the excuses so far are:
1. Didn't get your email
2. Paypal didn't work, it wouldn't accept my CC
3. Phone line 'dropped out' (maybe they hung up?)
4............
5..........
I mean, when someone doth protest too much, I kind of take that as an indicator of character.
Does anyone get the feeling that they could be stalling, possibly waiting for pay day to roll around??
~~
one excuse after the next after the next.....
You're so kind hearted, and I'm sure they picked up on that from the first meeting. Maybe they just don't want to tell you that they don't have the money, but by stalling they think they can still get a cake??
I hope they actually end up being worthy of your extreme patience!!
I don't like working that hard for payment! I will work my fingers to the bone making cakes, but I refuse to spend my free time chasing after money. Plus I think certain adults are a lot like little children--they want things in black and white and they want to know when they have crossed the line.
At this point it seems like they have all the control, and it's YOUR business. If it was me I would pick up the phone right now and very kindly explain that this situation has gotten to the critical point. Speak slowly and explain that all deadlines have passed and the one and only way they are going to have a cake at their reception from your business is if the full cash amount is in your grubby little hand by ____ date and time.
If they decide not to bring you the cash or to deposit it directly into your bank account at the branch in their town, then speak slowly and inform them that you will not be making a cake for their wedding and you will be keeping the non-refundable deposit.
My guess is they will miraculously find a way to get the cash into your hand. If they do not then I would suspect that there really was no cash to begin with.
I know times are hard, but I have NO sympathy for people that go out trying to buy things they know they can't pay for. That's just wrong.
As an update, the bride sent a Paypal payment and also a kind note apologizing for the confusion. Also sent me her regular cell phone since I had been calling her mom.
So...we're all set for next week. 
I'll just void and return the mom's check.
Thanks all...
As an update, the bride sent a Paypal payment and also a kind note apologizing for the confusion. Also sent me her regular cell phone since I had been calling her mom.
So...we're all set for next week.
I'll just void and return the mom's check.Thanks all...
I just read the whole thread and was hoping I'd read a happy ending! Happy endings are GOOD stuff!
phewww I am tired from reading the whole thread but Kita I am glad it worked out for you!!!
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