Cakesdivine, I agree. Don't throw it in our faces that there is no regard for the law. Be tactful. Lie and say you are legal and remove your state... I don't know you. Just don't come on the business forum and ask business advice of business people for an illegal business waving a web site.
I totally agree with Cakesdivine. I am a licensed legal home baker in the state of CA. Believe it or not, it is possible to do this in CA if you make your kitchen completely separate from your home. It wasn't easy, and I waited 15 years to be able to do it. But I got there.
I find myself going less and less to the Business forum because of this exact same issue. Which is sad! My experience could help a lot of people, but I will not hold back anymore when I feel it is wrong to blatantly break the law. I know how hard it was to get legal and I waited many years. Do I wish I could of afforded to do it when my kids were young and we definitely could use the income YOU BET.
My personal feeling is that CC needs to step in here and not just stop the threads when they get heated. Pretty soon there won't be to many of us who are willing to come around and give advice.
If you are coming to the BUSINESS forum, you should expect your answers to come from a legitimate, legal business point of view. OMG I just let it all out.......sorry about the rambling
Newbie, Thanks for posting. Pricing is a real hard pick forum discussion. You will get anything and everything but at times. I do agree with jason on the pricing. Find all of your cost - whatever they may be, including the dish soap to clean up with. Get a good general idea of the exact cost you have in your cake, add in your estimated time and mark up 20 - 30 percent. The cost of the cake will vary by flavor and filling. The design is given but not the flavor choice. It is less to make a plain vanilla cake with buttercream and fondant design compared to a white chocolate cake-cheesecake filling with white chocolate buttercream. I think before you can get $XX.XX for the cake, we would need more information on the total cake.
all i want is an answer i know whats legal and not legal so i dont need anyone snooping to see what i have and dont have, so if you dont know about pricing keep your words to yourself. thnx FC
Wow! For someone asking for help with pricing in the business forum, your words aren't very nice.
all i want is an answer i know whats legal and not legal so i dont need anyone snooping to see what i have and dont have, so if you dont know about pricing keep your words to yourself. thnx FC
Since it's a wedding cake with 2 tears, you should charge $125.
mgm, I do know pricing and how to devise it. Many are currently requesting my pricing grid because it is very well thought out and the information obtained is a guide for those who want to learn how to devise their own price points. I have no problem if someone requesting that. But my price point won't be your price point eventhough we are in the same state because each area and target clients are different in economic demographic.
Further my question is if you are in Texas where it is illegal to sell food product to the public that is produced in ones home kitchen except for those on a military base, are you allowed to sell to those off base. It has been stated that someone on base CANNOT sell to others off base and yet on your website you offer your product to non-military clients in neighboring towns. So any sale that you make on base you are a-ok to do so, off base is a big no-no. I don't really care what you do, I am looking more at this as an example of the insane logic to the current status quo of the law regarding cottage food production. If the military, which is a section of the American government, encourages it then by God every state should allow it as well! That is what I am getting at. Using this knowledge to help get our bill passed into law, that in the instance of a military base a person can bake from a home kitchen regardless of current state law and sell their product.
The fact that you came on here and blasted those that didn't want to answer your question, and implied that they didn't know how to help you with pricing is really insulting, and actually sort of comically ironic. I mean here you are not knowing what the heck to charge for a cake, I just don't get how someone can't KNOW what to charge for their product. Don't you know how much it costs you out of pocket to produce it? If you don't have that basic of intellegence to add up your costs and give yourself enough of a profit margin to make it worthwhile to even produce then why are you even in business?
And Jason may be very blunt and a bit arrogant with his delivery of information, but he is smart when it comes to business. You might want to heed some of his advice, regardless of your personal assessment of his character.
You know what, I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance.
It was so easy a caveman could do it.
For corn's sake, the woman asked how much she should charge for her cake. (One of the most common questions asked here).
We have well-paid law-enforcement officials who enforce laws. It is not our job nor our responsibility to chastise fellow members.
I don't care if she's baking cupcakes on the engine of her car. It's none of my business.
This business of "well, I did everything I was supposed to do so no one else is gonna get by with anything" is childish and small.
Well put. As as one of those well-paid law-enforcement officers I don't give too hoots about where a cake is baked. Perhaps some code enforement person would care, but I doubt it.
mgm, I do know pricing and how to devise it. Many are currently requesting my pricing grid because it is very well thought out and the information obtained is a guide for those who want to learn how to devise their own price points. I have no problem if someone requesting that. But my price point won't be your price point eventhough we are in the same state because each area and target clients are different in economic demographic.
Further my question is if you are in Texas where it is illegal to sell food product to the public that is produced in ones home kitchen except for those on a military base, are you allowed to sell to those off base. It has been stated that someone on base CANNOT sell to others off base and yet on your website you offer your product to non-military clients in neighboring towns. So any sale that you make on base you are a-ok to do so, off base is a big no-no. I don't really care what you do, I am looking more at this as an example of the insane logic to the current status quo of the law regarding cottage food production. If the military, which is a section of the American government, encourages it then by God every state should allow it as well! That is what I am getting at. Using this knowledge to help get our bill passed into law, that in the instance of a military base a person can bake from a home kitchen regardless of current state law and sell their product.
And Jason may be very blunt and a bit arrogant with his delivery of information, but he is smart when it comes to business. You might want to heed some of his advice, regardless of your personal assessment of his character.
Her pricing grid is amazing. I love it. I live in Texas, I use her grid for my info. Someday I will have a shop and the information I get from all of you will be great to have. It also helps me know as I make the cakes, see ow much time and costs goes into it. It is easier to look at the finished cake, size, details, and have an answer to get a ballpark estimate. I can see however, asking a questions and getting frustrated that everything else about what I am doing being googled and responded, discussed, challenged is made mention of but NOT the answer I am looking for, however informative it may be. Jason's answer is right on the nose on how to firugre it out but stated so dry it does not seems helpful. That just seems to be jasonkraft on CC. I appreciate all of the answers and there positive intent. But can anyone see or feel the frustration of the OP? and how this must make newbie feel? Please share a little compassion with all the advise.
There are people who will and have sold cakes illegally. I did not know that is was such a big no no until I was FINED. Have I stopped making cakes - NO. Have I stopped learning the best way to charge for them - NO. Do I charge for my cakes - NO. Sometimes just knowing the value of a cake makes a big difference. It may not be for today - but looking to the future. I will have a shop where I can and will charge a fair price. We all have things to learn. I am sure I would not be scolded for taking a class on decorating as it will be valuable once I become legal. So, why does there need to be such hostility when learning how to price? Do I need to wait until the first day my shop is legal, inspected, insured, bonded certified and then learn pricing or start NOW?!
There are people who will and have sold cakes illegally. I did not know that is was such a big no no until I was FINED. Have I stopped making cakes - NO. Have I stopped learning the best way to charge for them - NO. Do I charge for my cakes - NO. Sometimes just knowing the value of a cake makes a big difference. It may not be for today - but looking to the future. I will have a shop where I can and will charge a fair price. We all have things to learn. I am sure I would not be scolded for taking a class on decorating as it will be valuable once I become legal. So, why does there need to be such hostility when learning how to price? Do I need to wait until the first day my shop is legal, inspected, insured, bonded certified and then learn pricing or start NOW?!
WISDOM!!! 
No jlynnw, the learning SHOULD take place LONG before you even think about opening your doors... That is the issue. The OP requested pricing information for an order she ALREADY had, regardless of whether it was for a friend or not. That is putting the cart before the horse businesswise. Also, just because someone is a newbie to CC does not mean they are a newbie to cake decorating or the business of cakes.
Now if someone comes on here and says "I am in the planning stages of starting a cake biz, and would like advice and/or a formula to help me devise my price point", then all would be good, and the person would be helped graciously; no questions asked. It is all in the delivery of the request and the status you are currently in when making the request.
Not cake related but along the same lines....It aggrevates me when I see girls who have only had high school drillteam dance training, open a dance studio in my back door who just graduated high school, have never taught a class, and have no idea what a child of age 3 needs compared to a 10 year old, or another teenager. They many times teach horrible, bad technique habits that when I do finally get the student I have to undo years of bad training and feel as though the parents threw their money away.
Case in point. We had a student start at our studio this year. This girl is 13 and has been dancing since she was 3. When the mother told us this we were excited that our year old studio with nothing but beginner to intermediate dancers was finally getting a student who had a long dance background. WRONG. The child barely knew her 5 feet positions, had no concept of terminology, and her ability was that of a sheer beginner, our beginners were dancing rings around her!
Her mom told us that she learned more in the first 3 weeks of lessons than she did in her entire 10 years at the studio she had been dancing with. That studio is actually an insurance agency that gives away free dance lessons when you buy a policy. They hire teenagers in highschool to teach the kids. Yet they have like 4 locations of studios. It makes me sick. I am a dance educator. I am a cake decorating educator. I don't mind educating newbies, infact I quite enjoy it, I am a teacher to my core.
But the student has to be willing to learn by doing, not by handout, and not by trying to run before you learn how to walk...get my drift?
I guess what really got to me about the op's post was that she asked what we would charge. When Jason told her how he would figure it according to ALL things required to run a legal business (overhead, Insurance, etc), she came back and said ...I don't have overhead or insurance...
Did I just misinterpret her statement here? Because when I see a statement like that I can't help but think: 1. She either wants to know what I would charge out the door and she is letting me know she will charge less. (because of no overhead). Or 2. She wants a quote from me minus my overhead charges.
If I am wrong, then I am sorry. But I just don't know how to interpret that statement any other way. And yes I find it a little unsettling. Also, If she can legally sell on base GREAT. Then why not start out by telling us that. But a blanket statement like I have no overhead or insurance tends to send up a red flag in my book.
Also, am I wrong or did this start out in the Business Forum. If it didn't and was in the General all along then I apologize. Because even though I still feel the same way about legal verses illegal cakers, I feel better that it's kept out of the business forums.
That studio is actually an insurance agency that gives away free dance lessons when you buy a policy.
Totally off topic, but I work for the agency in my state that regulates the insurance industry and from what I've learned, I believe this is an illegal practice. Insurance companies are not allowed to give any inducement to a customer that is over $50 in value to get them to buy or renew insurance. Insurance companies cannot give inducements of ANY value when it has to do with health or disability insurance.
I don't know if that's a state or federal law, but you can report this practice to your state's department of insurance and they'll investigate it. The purpose is to try to create a more "level playing field" so small insurance companies can compete with the bigger ones. Just an interesting tidbit I never knew before I worked here.
Yes it is an illegal practice and they have been doing it for nearly 50 years. My mom is also in the insurance industry and can't understand how they get away with it. It is life insurance that they sell, and to my knowledge that is all they sell. I think what they did is have the dance studio created as a non-profit organization. There is a board and everything where the studios are concerned, but you can only enroll in their studio if you have purchased one of their policies.
Okay I figured it out...They say they charge a one time small fee for dance classes, and in addition to the classes you get a life insurance policy for free!
They flip the script. So it looks like you are getting free insurance, but actually they are giving away free dance lessons! Amazing.
Okay I figured it out...They say they charge a one time small fee for dance classes, and in addition to the classes you get a life insurance policy for free!
They flip the script. So it looks like you are getting free insurance, but actually they are giving away free dance lessons! Amazing.
Good lord. That'd never fly with my state's insurance department. They'd be all over them so fast they wouldn't know what hit them. Switching the angle is just a pretext for doing something they know is illegal. Besides, a dance studio can't legally sell or give away an insurance product. Only a licensed agent can do that.
Okay I figured it out...They say they charge a one time small fee for dance classes, and in addition to the classes you get a life insurance policy for free!
They flip the script. So it looks like you are getting free insurance, but actually they are giving away free dance lessons! Amazing.
That's totally shifty and unethical.
This is sort of on and off the topic both, but it's something to consider: If you are able to shop at the commisary on post, I believe it is illegal to sell products made with those things. The commisary wasn't intended to be a cheap place to buy your supplies your business. That's why there are places like Costco and Resturant Depot.
I could be mistaken on this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.
This is sort of on and off the topic both, but it's something to consider: If you are able to shop at the commisary on post, I believe it is illegal to sell products made with those things. The commisary wasn't intended to be a cheap place to buy your supplies your business. That's why there are places like Costco and Resturant Depot.
I could be mistaken on this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.
Ooh, very tricky! I'll bet you're right, because there are rules about people with commisary privileges not being allowed to buy food for people who don't have privileges. I grew up in a military family and we weren't supposed to buy food at the commisary and give it to our friends who weren't military. Not to say that the OP is buying supplies at the commisary, but I'll bet you're not supposed to.
Yeah, I think it is a stretch to assume the OP is using commissary foods for her business. I highly doubt that would happen no need to open a can of worms on an issue that is probably not a point in case.
Yeah, I think it is a stretch to assume the OP is using commissary foods for her business. I highly doubt that would happen no need to open a can of worms on an issue that is probably not a point in case.
Actually, I doubt it's a stretch at all. People who live on base usually buy their groceries at the commissary if they can get what they need there. It might not even occur to someone that buying ingredients for cakes they'd later sell might violate the rules.
No one's accusing her - just raising it as a possible issue for her to consider.
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