Calling All Parents...punishment Issues...
Lounge By Trixyinaz Updated 9 Jul 2009 , 1:34am by mrspriss0912
Ziggy (or anyone who wants to respond)
Ok, I know that it takes 2 to argue but here is just one example of what happened today and you can tell me what you would have done.
After a long weekend of having to tell dd over and over to do things and getting balked at for every little thing i told both girls that i was only going to ask them to do things 1 time and that I would not accept any arguing about whatever direction I had given. Just one example of what took place follows.
The girls had taken a bath and needed thier hair dried before going to be.
my youngest came in, got it done, asked if she could watch her shows before bed and when told no because it was bed time responded OK , stood and got her hair dried and went to her room to wait for me and her sister.
DD (the stubborn one) comes in and throws herself on my bed.
Mom- Emma(DD) come get your hair dried
DD- When I am done (standing on her head looking at herself in mirror)
Mom- I asked you to come get your hair dried. I have things I have to do and I am not going to argue with you or wait. Now get over here.
DD- UUHHHHGGG OK! Stomps over and stands infront of me.
Mom- Stop the moaning and dont start with the smart tone. (starts to dry hair)
DD- When I am done can I watch my shows?
Mom- No because it is bed time when I am done.
DD- But I want to watch Scooby
Mom- No. It is bed time
DD- Can you turn it on so I can see if it is on?
Mom- Emma, I told you it is bed time and you are not going to watch your shows period.
DD- FINE! Just take the t.v.'s out of the house and all of my stuff and I will just live naked with nothing to do.
Mom- Dont puch your luck or I just may do that.
So, In my opinion this was debating and I know that I should not debate something with her but at what point should the conversation have been ended? Do I just stop responding to her? I really do want some help with this. I hope I am not sounding flip about it all.
I think you always have to know what your goal is in every situation and keep that as the focus. So, exactly how I would handle this situation might be different than how you would handle it.
For us, our daughter was quite verbal so by age 8, she loved to argue. We found that it was best to not have any back and forth with her at all. If further explanation was needed, that would NOT be given in the heat of the moment. Also, punishment for a unique situation (that didn't already have a predetermined punishment) would not be determined in the heat of the moment.
So, in the situation you described, I might have told her what would happen if she didn't (if I could do so without being "in the heat of the moment"), then if she didn't then comply, I would calmly enforce that consequence, without further engaging her. I would also determine for myself if there was a particular reason that this was a struggle and see if there was a way to change that in the future. Is she too tired and cranky and is her hair so long or thick that this is a big job for so late in the day? Can she handle this task by herself? When she's not upset about it, can I talk to her about why she didn't want to do it then and see if there is a way to take the hassle out of it? When she's not upset, you can talk reasonably and lay out your reasons and what the consequences will be if she doesn't mind you. Then, if she again doesn't comply, you can just calmly hand out the consequence and if possible, then just leave the room.
I will say something I've noticed is that the more TV kids watch, the harder it seems to get them to cooperate. Not a hard and fast rule, but I think it is true sometimes.
Don't know if that helps or not!
I think you are on the right track by following through on your punishment. You said she would miss the trip, she should miss the trip!
My only issue....please, please, PLEASE don't use reading and journal writing as a punishment! You want her to associate those with pleasure and choice!!
I only have time for one response this morning...big wigs are in the office today. I wanted to address Average Mom.
Thanks for your reply. I know exactly what you mean about not using reading and journal writing as punishment, and that is not my intent. When the kids at her school get in trouble, their toys are taken away and they can't play in center with their friends. They can, however, go to books or sit and write in their journal. At first I threw a fit when I learned of that, because to me that seemed like that was their punishment and I dind't want any negativity associated with learning to read or write. But then I started to see where the school was coming from. The punishment was actually their toys being taken away and not playing with their friends. They don't believe in timeouts so they redirect the kids and have them do something by themselves that won't disrupt the class - like reading or writing.
So with that said, DD's punishment is no television, no playing with her friends, no going outside and no toys. She loves to READ and WRITE and DRAW so we are allowing her to keep doing those thing to fill up the time (kinda like what school does) since it is something she loves but is also educational. DD is 5, starts kindergarten in the fall and is already at a mid 2nd to beginning 3rd grade reading level. Did I say she LOVES to read and write? She doesn't look at these things as punishment, or at least I hope not. When she asked what she could do since she can't go outside, watch TV or play with her toys, I told her she can read her books or write and draw in her journal. She was pretty excited about that.
FWIW, I also hate when people use FOOD as a behavioural reward or punishment, so I totally get what you are saying about the reading and writing, and hope that I am not instilling any negative associations with them.
I'd also like to recommend the book 123 Magic (can't remember the author, sorry!).
It is an excellent method of disciplining without yelling or arguements. The book itself is a quick easy-to-read.
I'd also like to recommend the book 123 Magic (can't remember the author, sorry!).
It is an excellent method of disciplining without yelling or arguements. The book itself is a quick easy-to-read.
A few random thoughts from what I learned from our psychologist. DS is 9 now and diagnosed ADHD but I use these for DD as well and they do work.
When they do something they are not supposed to or are misbehaving I always tell them that their actions are unacceptable. Not them, their actions.
We also work on a reward system here. Lately I haven't had to use it, but it worked wonders when I did. I take a week (maybe shorter period of time for younger kids) and they get a contract they sign at the beginning stating that they agree to behave appropriately, etc, etc (whatever you feel you need to specify here) and they sign it. If at the end of the week they have abided by the contract for the majority of the time, they get the reward. Keep rewards simple, but let them choose. Maybe mini golf, ice cream, time with mom/dad, a favorite activity.
Also, as far as punishments, keep them short. Kids don't need days long punishments at young ages, imho. So, he misbehaves, he will lose a privelege for maybe the night. Or, if we have something planned, depending on his misbehavior and how severe it is, he may not get to participate. Recently, for example, we were camping. All the kids wanted to go swimming, but he threw an all out fit. (I knew he was overwhelmed and tired) So, I let him throw his tantrum-staying nearby, but quiet. After he was done and the other kids had already gone I talked to him about his behavior and let him know that if he can change his behavior and attitude he would be allowed to go in 15 minutes, but for this moment, he is punished. That in turn gave him the chance to collect himself, calm down and was at the same time working on his behavior because he wanted to go. He did manage to get it together and went.
I know there is so much more I learned, but I just can't think of it to write it down. I'm in no way saying every kid is ADHD or anything like that. I use these techniques with both of my kids and can see such a difference. I hope they can be of help to all of you as well. I know punishment alone didn't work for us. I couldn't take enough away-he didn't care. The rewards however hit a home run and they love having something to look forward to.
((hugs))
I can't say thanks enough to all those that responded. I have read every response, and while I may not have responded to each and every one of them personally, I just want to say that I have learned a lot from you moms and dads.
I also belong to a mom's site and asked the question there too. A lot responded that many of you here did. I ended up doing what some of you and most them suggested or hinted at. I fessed up to my 5 YO and told her we made a mistake. I explained that even big people make mistakes and when you realize that, you have to correct it, and that's what we are doing. I told her that we were very angry for two reasons 1. the lying and 2. for sneaking out of the house and that we acted on that anger without really thinking about what we were doing. I went on to say that we realized that taking away the Chicago trip was harsh (had to explain that word to her). I went on to explain that normally we would not take back something we took away, but in this case only, we are willing to let her earn it back. She was delighted to hear that and said she will try "really hard" to always tell us the truth and to never sneak out again without telling us. We told her she needs to earn that trust back.
So after our little talk, she ate dinner, cleaned up her mess, sat down and wrote in her journal and then it was off to bed at 7 pm. DH and were going out that night (Monday night) and had a sitter come over shortly after DD went to bed. DD was bummed that she had to be in bed before the sitter got there, but we explained why that was happening and she seemed to understand that. I told the sitter that she was grounded and that's why she's in bed so early, but did warn her that she may wake up, as she often does.
Fast forward a couple hours. DH and I get home and expected to see DD sleeping on the couch (she gets scared upstairs by herself), but she wasn't. We ask how everything was. She said fine. I asked if DD had woken up and she said yes, but was only downstairs for a little bit before the she took her back up to bed. Then I said, "I forgot to tell you that she is not allowed to watch TV, did she?" The sitter said, no. DD told her that she is grounded and can't watch any tv, but could read a book or write in her journal. The sitter turned off the TV and she and Holly read a book and spelled some words in her journal and then she went back to bed.
When DD woke up yesterday morning, I praised her so much for telling the sitter the truth..her face lit up and she bounced out of bed.
Just wanted to share that and say thanks once again! And today I told her to brush her teeth while I was ironing. When I came back in the room, I asked if she had brushed them. She said no and I said, okay, let's get them brushed now. She looks at me and, "Mom, I didn't lie...I told you the truth." I said I know and I'm very proud of you for telling me the truth. It's behaviour like this that is going to help you earn your Chicago trip back so keep it up. And, since you told the truth, all I told you to do was march in there and brush them now. If you had lied, you would have still had to brush your teeth, but something would have been taken away for lying, right?" She nodded with her toothbrush sticking out of her mouth. DD is very smart, and I think we underestimate how much a 5 year old understands or can handle. Back in January she got in trouble big time at school for not listening, so we had taken away two bday parties that she was invited to that weekend. To this day, she still talks about it and knows she needs to listen to her teachers or else.
Being a parent is HARD work. I have a better appreciation for my parents and how they raised 6 kids.
This has me thinking tho. My parents hit and yelled and washed out mouths with soap and did all the stuff that you aren't supposed to do today. But, there wasn't a day growing up that we never felt loved or secure or safe. Our family is very close and there has never been any resentment of our parents for how they raised us. I hear so often from other people, "We were raised exactly like that too, and we all turned out okay and we all love our parents very much." Do you think that type of discipline worked (or any type of discipline) b/c our parents always made us feel loved and secure and safe? I don't know....just thinking out loud...
Being a parent is HARD work. I have a better appreciation for my parents and how they raised 6 kids.
This has me thinking tho. My parents hit and yelled and washed out mouths with soap and did all the stuff that you aren't supposed to do today. But, there wasn't a day growing up that we never felt loved or secure or safe. Our family is very close and there has never been any resentment of our parents for how they raised us. I hear so often from other people, "We were raised exactly like that too, and we all turned out okay and we all love our parents very much." Do you think that type of discipline worked (or any type of discipline) b/c our parents always made us feel loved and secure and safe? I don't know....just thinking out loud...
Trixy I can completely relate with your above statement. I too am from a large family (youngest of 8 kids) and we were raised as you were.
I certainly was never beaten or whipped, but if I deserved a slap then I got one. Of course as a kid I lied........ONCE........I called my Mom a jerk........ONE TIME........broke curfew.........ONE TIME.......etc., etc., etc.!!! You get the picture. I only needed to be punished ONE TIME for each offense.
My parents were VERY fair with all of us but they didn't spend hours explaining how they expected us to behave, they didn't make deals with us, or reward us with stars on a chart and a free ice cream at the end of the week. They were tough, they demanded our respect but in return we had the best childhood any kid could ask for.
I think some of the "younger" generation of parents today are very fearful of disciplining their children because they're afraid their kids won't like them. I have several grown nieces who have these beliefs and believe me you wouldn't want to be around their kids. They are spoiled rotten little brats, who run their parent's lives.
I raised my 2 kids the way I was raised (and my DH too). They are 19 and 21 now, and they appreciate that my husband and I cared enough about them to be strict and to expect them to follow our house rules.
On more then one occasion I've had one of their friends sit at my table and tell me they wish their own parents cared enough about them to give them a curfew while they were home from college.
Kids need structure and they need to learn that they are NOT going to always be rewarded for doing the right thing, but that there will be consequences when they do the wrong thing.
I don't know too many employers who will put a star next to their name when they get a project in on time or when they don't lie about calling in sick.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's our job to get our kids ready for the real grown up world where there are failures and disappointments.
I could go on and on but this is long enough.......LOL!!
My parents are both gone now, but there isn't 1 of us 8 that don't think they were the best parents any kid could ever have. We are all very close and very successful. Every one of us has been married for 25 yrs or more......now that's saying something in this day and age of divorce/separation. Product of GOOD SOLID PARENTING.
My advice.......do what your parents and my parents did and forget all the so-called "expert" psychological advice. It's our responsibility to be a parent to our children..........there's plenty of time to be their friend... when they're adults.
I'm so proud of your daughter and I'm so proud of you Trixy. I was going to suggest that you make the punishment fit the crime and don't set her up for failure by making the punishment so broad. For example; If you lie again you don't get to go to Chicago. That is way to big because what happens if she lies about something really small. Anyway you handled it well and congratulations.
Ok so I havr been reading the post's and I do agree the punidhment to fit the crime . My DD had a lyong habbit when she was younger too and I was tired of it so I made her brushe her teeth, tounge and the roof of her mouth with soap.... went old school on her and it worked.... she figured out that lying was a very bad idea in our house.
Now I was raised in a diciplined house hold. I have had way more than my fair share of paddelings and no it is not the "p.c." thing to do anymore but it still works!!
My DD is now 14 and starting high school so I am just really getting to the "fun" stuff I know she is ready to be her own person and make her own decisions and I am fine with that but I have told her frankly that I am still the parent and that I will have the final say in this house. She is a good kid and just graduated as the Salutatorian of her 8th grade class she is very bright and has submitted two manuscripts for publishing. Guess what she has had her butt spanked a time or two and I do believe in having chores around the house not only is it teaching her things she will need to know when she is out on her own but as I explained t her it helps me out aroud the house too!
I guess my point is that dicipline is what kids need . That is how they learn . even thought it hurts us as parents it is just the dirty part of the job that none of us like , but is in their best intrest in the end . stick to your guns and even thought it hurts feelings ....Tust me someday she will thank you and DH some day . I did
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