But it is not the place of someone to say what they think a cake should cost if they haven't taken the right steps to be selling cake in the first place.
Do you mean in reference to other people's prices? Like, they shouldn't question another person's prices if they(themselves) are not liscensed? I'm asking because i didn't understand exactly what you were saying.
No that isn't what I meant. Sorry.. Maybe I said it wrong. I meant..
Someone saying they think $2 a serving is too much and just because they wouldn't pay that, they think more than that is overcharging,or gouging the customer, Obviously isn't aware of what it takes to LEGALLY sell a cake and is not factoring ALL of the reasons for charging more than $2 a serving.
I feel if that is how the OP feels she should just bake her cakes as gifts and be proud of her ability to do so. Her cake pictures are very nice and she is OBVIOUSLY very impressed with herself because she learned to decorate cakes in a Wilton class. Hundreds of people take cake decorating classes every day that doesn't mean they should start selling cakes. If she isn't a legal home baker She shouldn't be selling cakes at all .
I mean what are we doing creating a Black Market for Cake. 
There are many things to consider that have been addressed many times in other posts as to what it takes to comply with your local laws for selling eatable items and it is a huge factor in what you charge.
I am sorry if I offend anyone and I usually don't participate in these types of threads but it is getting really old to see all the posts about $xyz being too much for just cake!
This thread is way too ong for me to read all of it right now. But this is a very interesting topic. I myself just recently started making cakes. Everyone that has seen my cakes (at least here where I live) tells me that I have to start selling cakes. I really do enjoy making cakes. The most I have spent on a cake was when my daugther turned one. The cake was all whipped icing a number one and a butterfly for $75.00. I thought it was amazing. I recently tried to price a wedding cake at 3.00 the serving, but kind of backed down thinking "I wouldn't pay $100.00 or more". But then again even if I cant afford financially someone else probably can. So now that I think of it- It doesnt matter if I would pay for it, its totally worth the money, so just go for it!
How about from now on, if we KNOW we are underpricing for a cake, let's keep it to ourselves. It's nothing to be proud of.
I agree....for your sake and those that knowingly do it but don't seem to give a rat's a$$. It only causes drama, and rightfully so, because....shame on you!
When did low prices become a bad thing?
How many of you guys shop at Wal-Mart because they have lower prices than the mini-mart at the gas station? How many people use coupons, or scan the Sunday sale circulars for the best price on TVs?
If your caking skills can garner a premium price, more power to ya, but there is nothing morally wrong with charging $2 a slice for cake.
Because we are creating art. We aren't creating 500 sheet cakes in a day that say Happy Birthday on them. Our cakes are our art. And it's custom.
You want Walmart prices, then don't commission a custom piece of art work.
That is the whole point, some people donât want (or donât want to pay) for a custom piece of cake art. There is a market for cake that cost $20 a slice cake and for cake that cost $2 a slice.
The point I was trying to make is that it is not shameful or wrong to sell cake that cost $2 a slice.
Then by all means, please walk yourself to your nearest grocery store and pick up a cute cake from their refrigerated cabinet. But custom cakes should not be expected to cost that little.
If you wanted to build a house, would you get a custom home for the same price as a Sears track home? Nooooooooooo. 
However, I just wanted to say that I wouldn't pay what I charge. But plenty of people do... I'm busy with orders most weekends and even have to turn work away sometimes.....What I wanted to say is that just because YOU wouldn't pay those prices, don't assume that others won't.
Yep!! My daughter's friends will apologize for not buying their kids' cakes from her mom. She laughs and tells them, "Don't worry about it! I can't afford my mom's cakes either! If she didn't make 'em free for her grandchildren, they wouldn't have those cakes at their parties!"
Indy, you're my cake idol - in fact, I use your BC recipe and round cutting method, and I've pm'd you before for advice! I do NOT want to be on your bad side! I'm feeling a little sick at my stomach now just reading your reply.
You're not on my bad side!
I just tend to get my mom-finger going on a few topics that are passionate to me. And it's only because I've gone thru so much to get to this point, and it really really hurts me when I see someone who THINKS "I can't get what my work is worth".The teacher salary difference is a good comparison but let's look at it slightly different. The new teacher doesn't make "Less" than the Masters Degree teacher .... the Masters Degree teacher makes "more" than the new teacher. Do you see the Big Difference? The new teacher isn't making "below standard". The new teacher IS making the market salary. And when she gets her Masters, she'll make more.
Some cakers think they have to make LESS because they're new. They don't make less than the Collette Peters of the world .... Collette makes more than the regular cakers of the world.
So if the industry standard is (let's get ridiculous just for example's sake) $20/serving, then charge $20/serving. When you get more known, more in demand, add more skills, then you can charge $30/serving. But don't start out charging $10/serving instead of the $20.
Thanks Indy...FINALLY, an explanation that makes sense to me (just needed to hear it in teacher-speak, I guess. I do appreciate your thoughts, and I take them to heart. I'm not ready yet to double my prices and alienate faithful customers, but I have increased gradually over the last year or so, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so in small increments - even if I never reach The Industry Standard (is there a particular number to aim for???)
I've been basing my pricing what is standard in MY area - from large bakeries to small shops to legal home bakers - not in the world overall!
Here's the kicker... I am not a shop owner either... I don't have rent (yet) and my overhead is minimal. I am a licensed residential baker. I am priced higher than most of the bakeries in my area. I don't care that my overhead is lower... I just see it as more profit for me. 
It's also so that there isn't extreme sticker shock when I finally do open a shop. I don't feel guilty. I work HARD and I want to make a good wage for what I do. It takes time away from my family, and there's no way I am doing that for anything less than what I get now. I take pride in competing with the big dogs, and that means pricing myself to be competitive and not undercutting them. Not to mention it costs me on average $1-1.20 per serving just to MAKE my cakes... I have to sell them at a high price to make sure I get covered for my time.
If you are being competitive for your area... then you aren't hurting anyone, but do stop and ponder the possibilities. 
Large scale bakeries have it easier... they get better pricing on their ingredients... and walmart and the grocery stores should NOT be in your equation. The only way to price your cakes is to sit down and figure what it costs YOU to make them... everything... from the shopping to the cake box. When you figure that out... subtract it from what you charged. If you are making a decent hourly wage then that's cool. But (just a random example here) making a $20 profit isn't a decent wage you know? 
Here's the kicker... I am not a shop owner either... I don't have rent (yet) and my overhead is minimal. I am a licensed residential baker. I am priced higher than most of the bakeries in my area. I don't care that my overhead is lower... I just see it as more profit for me.
It's also so that there isn't extreme sticker shock when I finally do open a shop. I don't feel guilty. I work HARD and I want to make a good wage for what I do. It takes time away from my family, and there's no way I am doing that for anything less than what I get now. I take pride in competing with the big dogs, and that means pricing myself to be competitive and not undercutting them. Not to mention it costs me on average $1-1.20 per serving just to MAKE my cakes... I have to sell them at a high price to make sure I get covered for my time.
Jeanne ~ your cakes are so beautiful, you SHOULD be charging more than the average bakery.
This has been an eye opening experience because recently I nudged my prices up, but I'm going to raise them up to where they need to be because eventhough the other bakeries in my area are a lower priced than me, I'm using more expensive ingredients and I customize every cake. I'm not as experienced, but my time is worth something, and I need to start factoring that in. (not to mention the mountains of paper towels I go through...) 
I'm still on page 4--still catching up.
And about the whole "people are out of work and aren't spending on luxury items anymore"...I call BS on that too. There are plenty of thos situations where I am. And plenty of people who are still living comfortably, and they keep ordering the cakes. And when things turn around, if you have slashed your prices so shorribly and people get used to it....good luck bringing them back up, it's gonna be tough. You've now set a precedence with people saying cake is cake, and I'm going to practically give it away....
If you dont' want to charge people what a cake is worth ... fine.... then just give them away. But don't walk around pretending that you run a "little cake business". Because unless you are pricing appropriately to cover ALL of your costs, then you're not running a business. And "costs" include much more than just "cost of ingredients and some pocket money when I'm done."
Yes.
Because you will hurt legitimate businesses going low ball like that. Stick near the prices of the bakeries in your area. Because frankly and I'm saying this kindly, those who do not are part of the problem--they pull the legitimate businesses down. It's just a fact of life.
How can a business compete with a 'charity' business?
I'm just writing some things to consider while you ponder all these pricing points of view.
Theres this custom baker (she has a shop) in my area and she charges only $1.50-$2.00 per serving. A friend of mine ordered her wedding cake from her a few months ago...a 4-tier square for 200 people all cake (no dummies) with fondant and she only charged her $400.00. I can't compete with that...i don't think any bakery in my area can compete with that!
Theres this custom baker (she has a shop) in my area and she charges only $1.50-$2.00 per serving. A friend of mine ordered her wedding cake from her a few months ago...a 4-tier square for 200 people all cake (no dummies) with fondant and she only charged her $400.00. I can't compete with that...i don't think any bakery in my area can compete with that!
She's running a charity huh.
How long's she been in business?
I am going to say something that is going to get me into trouble here, but I don't care.
Undercharging for your cakes is exactly what gives people like Bronwen Weber BS reasons to not support home baking bills. This is in line with the $20 Craig's List cakes. If you undercharge, you could drive down the price for everyone.
You need to charge what others in your area with your similar skills are charging, not low balling it because you feel "guilty" about it or whatever.
I agree. Emphasis on the phrase in your area.
There are many facets to price fixing (which is illegal)
The following quote is from here
"A majority of states have also enacted a "Below-Sales-Cost" law wherein businesses may not sell goods below cost if they do so with anti-competitive intent or effect."
How 'bout them apples.
There are many facets to price fixing (which is illegal)
The following quote is from here
"A majority of states have also enacted a "Below-Sales-Cost" law wherein businesses may not sell goods below cost if they do so with anti-competitive intent or effect."
How 'bout them apples.
key phase being "below cost". Sounds like this law is dealing with the loss-leader practice heralded by many appliance stores 'n such.
Omg! I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry I even asked! And I think this has gotten out of hand. I simply wanted to know from some other people like me, who are not running a business what they are charging. I have surveyed people around me and $2.00 a serving makes eyes bug out.
Just to let you know, the angst and aggression in response to my query have made the decision for me. I shall not charge at all, it is ruining my fun. Let them reimburse my supply costs and tip me if they so choose, but I will only do cakes based out of love.
I have never encountered anything like this on this site. Wow, you guys can be pretty tightly wound. Hope I don't tick you off again in the future. Sorry for that.
Funny thing is... no one here was angry. Too bad it always gets taken that way. 
Funny thing is... no one here was angry. Too bad it always gets taken that way.
Perhaps it is due to the limitation of the written word, but sorry to tell you much of what was written seems angry and unnecessarily harsh.
Wow - fingers have been busy whilst i was sleeping - just woke up and there were five pages to read -
The Sun is shinning and all is well in the Bluehue household.
Hope wherever you are and what ever you are cake creating, it becomes a masterpiece.
To whom ever said (sorry forgot posters name) *i might be upset* - naaaa, it takes more than a written word on a forum to get this lady upset - i just say *it* as i see it.
Perhaps my bluntness has casused skirts to fluff up.
Ok - time for my morning coffee - and then start the ironing.
Cake free day for me today ........... wish i could say the same about the ironing -
Bluehue
I think this was a good discussion with lots of food for thought for all of us. Trust me this may be a frustrating subject for some but no one here was being angry or harsh.
There are other threads that have been ugly, this ain't even close!
Thank you all for your input here, gives a body lots to ponder!
Wow - fingers have been busy whilst i was sleeping - just woke up and there were five pages to read -
The Sun is shinning and all is well in the Bluehue household.
Hope wherever you are and what ever you are cake creating, it becomes a masterpiece.
To whom ever said (sorry forgot posters name) *i might be upset* - naaaa, it takes more than a written word on a forum to get this lady upset - i just say *it* as i see it.
Perhaps my bluntness has casused skirts to fluff up.
Ok - time for my morning coffee - and then start the ironing.
Cake free day for me today ........... wish i could say the same about the ironing -
Bluehue
I wish I could get free ironing too! And there it is, just like I was thinking after reading OP's last statement. Some people may seem to overreact, some are just really passionate, some are VERY honest (cough, cough, um Indydebi) & some are sweet as can be (tonedna you know I'm talking about you), but everyone DOES CARE & they are not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. EVERYONE is hear to help. And I think everyone is with the agree to disagree approach. I feel thats what we see in the...more animate post. Please, don't take anything personal, cause I know no one means it that way.
If you are ok with just getting your cost covered & a tool out the deal knock yourself out. But for those who make cakes and charge their cost and labor to survive & pay bills, how do you even think to ask why not charge $2.00. How are we going to survive off charging $2.00 a serving. You really think thats fair to us? Prcining varies area to area, you do what you want, but it may be unfair to those who do this for an actual living, unlike you, who does this as a hobby. I hope I'm not coming off as beating you up, (cause I'm not trying too), but with the controversial subjects that have been coming across the pass couple of days, and you obviously knowing how people feel about low balling on pricing, it seems your trying to stir up the mixing bowl to me.
When did I ever even imply that anyone doing this for a living should not charge what ever they want to? I am talking about me, how I should proceed. And you talk about "controversial subjects" coming across, I am not a daily reader of the forum so I have no idea what you all have discussed recently. I did try to find some other pricing threads, but nothing I could find was helping me. Frankly most of the response received wasn't very helpful either.
Okay, I tried to explain it in polite terms, but it seems you want to be angry, knock yourself out. If your fishing for an apology, don't hold your breath. I'm done.
Wow - fingers have been busy whilst i was sleeping - just woke up and there were five pages to read -
The Sun is shinning and all is well in the Bluehue household.
Hope wherever you are and what ever you are cake creating, it becomes a masterpiece.
To whom ever said (sorry forgot posters name) *i might be upset* - naaaa, it takes more than a written word on a forum to get this lady upset - i just say *it* as i see it.
Perhaps my bluntness has casused skirts to fluff up.
Ok - time for my morning coffee - and then start the ironing.
Cake free day for me today ........... wish i could say the same about the ironing -
Bluehue
I like this entry. I'm picturing a pretty house in a pretty location. *sigh* I want to visit!
Thinking happy thoughts that this tension in this thread will dissipate. What is up with CC lately?
Here's the kicker... I am not a shop owner either... I don't have rent (yet) and my overhead is minimal. I am a licensed residential baker. I am priced higher than most of the bakeries in my area. I don't care that my overhead is lower... I just see it as more profit for me.
It's also so that there isn't extreme sticker shock when I finally do open a shop. I don't feel guilty. I work HARD and I want to make a good wage for what I do. It takes time away from my family, and there's no way I am doing that for anything less than what I get now. I take pride in competing with the big dogs, and that means pricing myself to be competitive and not undercutting them. Not to mention it costs me on average $1-1.20 per serving just to MAKE my cakes... I have to sell them at a high price to make sure I get covered for my time. If you are being competitive for your area... then you aren't hurting anyone, but do stop and ponder the possibilities.
Large scale bakeries have it easier... they get better pricing on their ingredients... and walmart and the grocery stores should NOT be in your equation. The only way to price your cakes is to sit down and figure what it costs YOU to make them... everything... from the shopping to the cake box. When you figure that out... subtract it from what you charged. If you are making a decent hourly wage then that's cool. But (just a random example here) making a $20 profit isn't a decent wage you know?
You definitely have lots of good points! I especially appreciate the part about not hurting anyone by simply being competitive in my area...I certainly don't want to bring down the market value of custom cakes!! Around here, most people have truly never had, or heard of (at least until Ace of Cakes) an $8 or $10 (or $15!) a slice custom cake - there simply aren't places to get them here. You'd be surprised what an eye opener even $2 a serving is to a lot of people here - give me time...I promise to gradually retrain them!
The one thing that has always nagged at me is knowing that if / when I do open up a shop, I will HAVE to increase prices - the 'sticker shock' aspect does worry me. I've never felt any guilt over charging people or raising my prices (other than to good friends - but they get discounts anyway ), but I guess coming from quitting my full time teaching job to staying home with no income at all for a few years did change the way I looked at my income from cakes. When you don't bring home a paycheck for two years, clearing 200-300 on a wedding cake, or even 30 on a sheet cake does seem great! But the busier I get, the more I understand why I probably should increase a bit more.
Thank you - I really do appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.
Everyone states that you should price yourself according to what other bakeries in your area are charging. My question is who exactly sets the pricing in a particular area anyway? What makes one or two bakeries more important than another that they set the standard for everyone else? The legal bakers in my city charge anywhere between $3.50 to $8.00/serving. That's quite a big price differential. It's difficult to find where you belong with such a wide margin. Some bakers may say I charge too much at $4/serving, for example, while others say I'm undercutting their prices. It's 
if you do, if you don't. Based on that, I have to charge what works for me according to my costs and labor. I can't allow the $8/serving bakery dictate what I do and price me right out of the market. Nor can I lower my price to the point that I can't pay rent or bills each month just because XYZ Bakery, 123 Bakery, or the legal home baker are charging less.
I'm a little late finding this post but...
OP I am right there with you. I have a hard time with pricing too. I don't think I've made $20 profit on any cake yet. I know (speaking for myself) that I would be one of the one's to just go to Walmart and get a cheap cake. Maybe it's because I've never been able to afford a "proper" cake. I just feel almost guilty charging a price that I wouldn't pay.
Wow - fingers have been busy whilst i was sleeping - just woke up and there were five pages to read -
The Sun is shinning and all is well in the Bluehue household.
Hope wherever you are and what ever you are cake creating, it becomes a masterpiece.
To whom ever said (sorry forgot posters name) *i might be upset* - naaaa, it takes more than a written word on a forum to get this lady upset - i just say *it* as i see it.
Perhaps my bluntness has casused skirts to fluff up.
Ok - time for my morning coffee - and then start the ironing.
Cake free day for me today ........... wish i could say the same about the ironing -
Bluehue
I wish I could get free ironing too! And there it is, just like I was thinking after reading OP's last statement. Some people may seem to overreact, some are just really passionate, some are VERY honest (cough, cough, um Indydebi) & some are sweet as can be (tonedna you know I'm talking about you), but everyone DOES CARE & they are not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. EVERYONE is hear to help. And I think everyone is with the agree to disagree approach. I feel thats what we see in the...more animate post. Please, don't take anything personal, cause I know no one means it that way.
Aww...thanks for the complement..It's funny I just open this thread for the first time and just saw this..What are the odds!..Now I have to go read!
Edna
Wow! After reading this thread I think I have become more depressed than I was before, thinking about business in my small little area. I started decorating cakes over 30 years ago. I took one Wilton's class and everything else was self taught. Yes I too started doing the "just for family and friends" and my "friends" list grew. Well my office job ended, that I hated anyway, so I applied for a seasonal job at Venture's discount store as a cashier. The manager seen on my app. that my hobbies and interestes were cake decorating so started a new career working for over 20 years for grocery chain stores. Ok so then got remarried moved to BFE lake resort area, opened a small restaurant with a beautiful European showcase that I filled every week with an "upscale" version of dessert cakes. Did some decorated ordered cakes, charged $1.50 everything was fine. After 2 years (just getting established) I had a heart attack + and had to give everything up. Ok so people would see me out and ask if I was still do cakes and of course would say no, health problems wouldn't let me. Okay so then after "resting" for 1 1/2 years. Decided to dump the druggy hubby and reopen for business. Didn't last a year! Couldn't pay the bills for either place. Now time has gone by and was thinking about reopening. Have spent $xx,xxx of dollars, and got approved by the HD to open the kitchen side to do pastries, and cakes. So have tried to build business back up and have done some advertising thru the local donut shop and a few other places. But to put it bluntly, can't seem to sell sh*t at $2/serving. The dining room isn't finished, sold my showcase so I need a new one, and still another $10 g's to get everything up and running. But after reading this heated discussion about how we are "under-charging" am wondering if it's even worth it. Will I ever get $5/serv., probably not but I do have a love of my craft and though I have tried to give it up just can't. So isn't that's what it's about? Pushing, pulling, doing what ever we can to keep doing what we love???? I don't want to be rich but I would like to pay my own bills, and maybe have enough money to go take a class with Bronwen Weber. Am I asking to much? Sorry I rambeled on, part tired, part sickness.
When I joined CC and saw the prices people charged, I didn't turn into a whiny wallflower, wringing my hands and mumbling about how "gosh, no one would pay that HERE!" I didn't spend one second worrying about trying to make everyone LIKE me and not wanting to hurt people's FEEEEEEEELINNNNNNNGS with a "high" price. Heck no, not me! I stood up and said, "If THEY can get it, *I* can get it!" And you know what? I've more than doubled my pricing in 2 years and no one bats an eye.
If you dont' want to charge people what a cake is worth ... fine.... then just give them away. But don't walk around pretending that you run a "little cake business". Because unless you are pricing appropriately to cover ALL of your costs, then you're not running a business. And "costs" include much more than just "cost of ingredients and some pocket money when I'm done."
AMEN!
IMO, it boils down to a self-esteem issue. You teach others how to treat you, plain and simple. If you don't think you deserve to be treated with respect (and yes, people paying you a living wage is a form of respect) then other people won't think you deserve it either. And boy, you know they won't.
I agree...I thinkk people sometimes dont give enough respect to their own work..Put your time in an hour based scheduled and see you are loosing money..Is as simple as that..
Edna
[quote="poothebear Will I ever get $5/serv., probably not but I do have a love of my craft and though I have tried to give it up just can't. So isn't that's what it's about? Pushing, pulling, doing what ever we can to keep doing what we love???? I don't want to be rich but I would like to pay my own bills, and maybe have enough money to go take a class with Bronwen Weber. Am I asking to much? Sorry I rambeled on, part tired, part sickness.[/quote]
I've feel the same way, I am just trying to do something I love and it is very depressing when it seems the little guys are being attacked for trying to get where the sucessful ones are. I didn't know until I found this site a few months ago this was an issue.
I have only been doing this for a little over a year and I am just learning I think I have some natural talent but I want to keep learning and that would not be possible if I didn't have friends and family paying for my supplies and a donation here and there.(I will never again claim I sell cakes on this site, too scary) You can bet your A** I will be happy to charge more than the bakeries when I have figured out what the hell I'm doing. I have learned so much here and have taken a look at how I have been doing things but I have to be honest it is out of fear. This is a very touchy subject but in all honesty I had no idea us home bakers even put a dent in the cake business and I don't think other "Newbies" have any idea either. Please take it a little easier on us. Please don't flame me.
Sweetsweetcreations - YES, YES, YES to everything you said, you took it right out of my own head!!! And to top it off? I peeked at your galleries and realized I pm'd you last week about your awesome cakes! I'd say you already know what the hell you're doing
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