I am definitely pissed. I wish that I knew the parents so that I could have a talk w/ them without worrying about stirring up trouble in the neighborhood.
I wouldn't spend one second "worrying" about it. If YOU know their little darlin' is a serial killer wanna be, then others in the neighborhood know it, too. You might even be surprised how many neighbors stand in their yard and applaud you.
When we moved to our neighborhood, we had no fences between our yards and we had the only swingset. I had NO PROBLEM yelling out my backdoor and telling kids "This is not a public playground ... get off of the swingset." What really got me was when I had to tell the kids AND THEIR PARENT to get out of my yard!! Was I the bad mom of the neighborhood? Probably. Did I care. not a wink! The kids who played in my yard with my kid knew I was a mom who wouldn't let the neighborhood baddies run over them. And parents of my child's friends knew they could play safely in my yard.
It only took a few times for the word to get around that you followed my rules .... or you WILL leave my yard!
Me and IndyDebi were sisters in another life. I was so the same way. My biggest pet peeve was when the 13 year olds would be traipsing around the toddler playground. I had no qualms about screaming at the top of my lungs: "Read the sign, 2-4 year olds! Get off the slide!"
Again, I'd dare their mothers (who of course were nowhere to be found when those bad kids were actin' a fool) to say something.
Has anyone else noticed that bullys seem to be really good at never getting caught in the act of actually bullying? As someone who was bullyed through middle school, I've always found this ironic. No matter how much my parents tried to help, everytime they went to the school, they were told that I was the problem because none of the teachers, administrators, etc. had every caught the "problem children" in the act despite the fact that this particular bully was tormenting several children, not just me.
I guess my point is that, if you can't get anywhere with the school, bus driver, etc. one of the best things you can do is support your daughter - be there when she needs someone to talk to or a shoulder to cry on. Remember that this won't last forever and just pray that she's able to learn something from it (like that she's a strong person, but that she has no control over other's behavior, only her reaction to it) and come out a better person.
While I completely understand why people want to tell their children to fight back, one of my husband's co-workers children actually has a criminal record because she defended herself in a school with a zero tolerance for bullying policy. While I agree it may be worth a suspension, is it worth a possible criminal record that could affect them down the road when they're looking for college admissions or employment? Just something to consider...
Has anyone else noticed that bullys seem to be really good at never getting caught in the act of actually bullying?
School bullies grow up to be abusive husbands. And having been there survived that, let me tell that no one ever sees the abusive husband in the act either. It's all very well hidden. 20+ years later, it's still very upsetting for to think about all of those people who, when I finally told them the truth about what I was living with, express surprised on how "I just can't believe that about him!" Did they even realize they were calling me a liar at that point?
.....because she defended herself in a school with a zero tolerance for bullying policy.
I have a zero tolerance for zero tolerance policies. We don't live in a black and white world. We live with LOTS of gray areas. Zero tolerance policies take the responsibility away from the school officials. If it's zero tolerance, then they dont' have to actually think about it and try to do the right thing. They just get to kick everyone out of school. The story that comes to mind is the kid having an asthma attack and another student gave the student her inhaler. Instead of being heralded for saving the kids life, the student was kicked out under the zero-tolerance policy for "passing drugs". you have GOT to be freakin' kidding me!!! 
Do you know what famous historical figure also had a zero tolerance policy? Adolf Hitler. And we all know how that worked out!
taxnerd-YES!!! With my son, the teacher was like "well, I've never seen that happen" and when I told her it happens at their desk, she said "But they are suppossed to be quiet when they are working."
It still happened! Just cause you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there!
Michelle-I'm going to PM you something. But, it really will be OK. 
For the bus find out if your school has cameras on the buses. Our school has cameras on ALL the buses and they use them to check out problems and to use them as proof when there is an issue with children. It's a little hard for Mom and Dad to argue with a tape of "precious" hitting someone.
Our bus driver is wonderful about keeping an eye on the kids. He handles a bus with kids from k-12 and is very serious about good behavior.
Gosh, I am so glad that I have you all! I didn't think about cameras.
I too was having a terrible time with my neighbor's DD bullying my 5 year old DD. I finally told her mom that i was tired of her DD bullying my DD. Her DD would say things that she knew would hurt my DD's feelings and then she would have this "satin" grin on her face. She would tell her that she was inviting all these friends over and my DD wasn't invited, she would pinch her and even went as far as kicking her out of the seat on the bus. (My DH even started calling her Demian.) When I "tried" to talk to her mom, she tried to tell me everything that my DD had said to her over the past 2 years. She told me that her DD got her feelings hurt when my DD said something about her wearing pull-ups to bed. Yes, I can see how that would be upsetting to her DD but lets face it, kids make fun of kids for things like that - not that it makes it right (I of course also didn't know of this until this conversation).
I finally started telling my DD if she said certain things to say things back to her. One time at Girl Scouts, the little girl told my DD that she wasn't going to be her friend because this other girl was now. I was so proud of my DD, she looked at her and said "fine, be that way" and went on doing what she was doing. The other girl looked at me with her mouth hung wide open in shock.
Good luck and dont' ever feel bad about sticking up for your child. She was given to me to protect until she is old enough and I am going to do it!
I know this may not be a popular response but, teach your daughter to defend herself........verbally and physically.
I went through this many years ago with my DD and got nowhere with the school administrators or with her teacher. Their responses were "Oh, but Johnny is such a good student, we've never had any behavioral problems with him." When I brought up the names of 3 other girls that were being tormented by Johnny, they looked at me with a shocked expression.
I told the Principal that if he refused to handle Johnny that I was going home and teaching my DD where to kick this kid to defend herself once and for all. He brought up the "zero tolerance thing" and I told him where he could shove his zero tolerance thing. He agreed to call Johnny down to the office after I left.
Well, I did teach my DD how to defend herself and I also told her that if this kid touched her again to scream in the highest pitched voice she could "DON'T TOUCH ME".
When she started standing up to him, he backed off. Usually bullies will only torment kids that they can upset. Once the victim starts fighting back or defending themselves the bully loses interest.
I'm not a confrontational person, but when someone is constantly teasing, touching or bullying, I believe that we have every right to defend ourselves.
This kid is obviously learning this behavior from home and that's sad.
I hope this turns out OK for your DD!
Can I just say...thank you all for this thread! My 4yo DD is not a victim of bullying...yet...but she is definitely a "target personality" (sensitive, easily upset, not big on standing up for herself, etc.) and I worry that the day will come and want to be prepared. All of your input is being filed into my arsenal. To michellenj, I am so sorry your DD has to deal with this at such a young age and I'm sending out my best wishes that everyone (you, your DD, the bus driver, the school) will be able to band together to fix the problem. (((hugs)))
It's a really bad situation, and your daughter is lucky to have you on her side. Do you know the parents of the "bully"? I know the mom of a child like that who is just the sweetest person who is at her wits end. I have a young boy and girl that drive me insane sometimes. Imagine the poor mom of all those boys?? The poor thing is probably half looney by now.
Of course, that's no excuse, I'm just trying to say that if you speak to the mom, she might respond very differently than you imagine. I, personally, would much rather be approached by another mom before she spoke to the authorities .
If you already know these people, then I understand your actions.
Good luck.
It's a really bad situation, and your daughter is lucky to have you on her side. Do you know the parents of the "bully"? I know the mom of a child like that who is just the sweetest person who is at her wits end. I have a young boy and girl that drive me insane sometimes. Imagine the poor mom of all those boys?? The poor thing is probably half looney by now.
Of course, that's no excuse, I'm just trying to say that if you speak to the mom, she might respond very differently than you imagine. I, personally, would much rather be approached by another mom before she spoke to the authorities .
If you already know these people, then I understand your actions.
Good luck.
I think the authorities need to be involved, because I know that my daughter is not the only one this kid has bothered, and I spoke w/ one of the kids' moms and she said she regrets not reporting it to the school. I also think that if it comes from soneone "official", the parents will take it more seriously, and not like I'm just overprotective and blowing things out of proportion. Plus, now it will be documented for the future.
The mom is very nice, according to a neighbor that knows her.
Can I just say...thank you all for this thread! My 4yo DD is not a victim of bullying...yet...but she is definitely a "target personality" (sensitive, easily upset, not big on standing up for herself, etc.) and I worry that the day will come and want to be prepared. All of your input is being filed into my arsenal. To michellenj, I am so sorry your DD has to deal with this at such a young age and I'm sending out my best wishes that everyone (you, your DD, the bus driver, the school) will be able to band together to fix the problem. (((hugs)))
I was thinking the same thing. My DS is 6 and also has a "target personality."
This has been a really interesting thread to follow.
Believe me, I've been through bullying with all 3 of my kids as victims, so nobody jump on me. But, it's it just a LITTLE bit ironic that folks want to stop the bullying by sending their tall, intimidating husbands over to threaten the other family???? 
I work in an elementary school and I have to tell kids all the time "I didn't see what happened, so I can't do anything about it." Now, I also tell that "that doesn't mean I don't believe what you're telling me, and I'm going to keep a close eye from now on, or I'm going to let your teacher know what you said". I've had many, MANY conversations with kids about how their language hurts, and how to treat others. Unfortunately, when you're dealing with 375 kids, you CAN only deal with what you see yourself. You wouldn't believe how many stories you get from those kids!
It's a very hard situation. I certainly understand your "mama bear" feelings. I had them myself many times.
Believe me, I've been through bullying with all 3 of my kids as victims, so nobody jump on me. But, it's it just a LITTLE bit ironic that folks want to stop the bullying by sending their tall, intimidating husbands over to threaten the other family????
Because you don't send a puppy dog in to get rid of an alligator. 
Unfortunately, those who engage in this kind of behavior don't respond well to "can't we all just get along?" The reason they and their family members are getting by with this type of behavior is because they "bully" the "nice" folks who are trying to be civilized.
To quote one of my favorite movies, "I didn't draw First Blood ....."
That's why I decided to teach my DD how to defend herself verbally and physically. If that hadn't worked, and the Principal hadn't gotten involved because he "didn't see anything", than you bet your butts my husband and I were ready to confront this boy's parents. We obviously would have been as civilized as possible.
Fortunately, my DD standing up for herself to this boy DID help and he left her alone when he saw that she wasn't intimidated by him any longer.
I know that the IDEAL is to avoid a confrontation, but most times when a child finds the need to torment another child it's because there is something going on in that child's home. Not every family is civilized. Some "macho type" fathers even find it NECESSARY to teach their sons to be the "dominant" in a relationship. These are the same men who beat their wives to feel empowered and superior. They're raising their sons to become the same "coward" that they are. Most of these cowards would run scared when a real man confronted them.
It's never OK to allow this behavior to continue. It's the school's responsibility to keep all of their students safe. The easy thing for them to do is to say "But, I didn't see anything" or "Johnny is such a good student". It's their job to make sure they look for those situations, and than to act on them. Unfortunately many take the easy road and turn their eyes to the problems. Don't let them do this to you or your child.
The easy thing for them to do is to say "But, I didn't see anything" or "Johnny is such a good student".
Wanna see them backpedal? When they make those statements, STRONGLY point out that you ARE offended that they just called your child a LIAR!!!
It's a really bad situation, and your daughter is lucky to have you on her side. Do you know the parents of the "bully"? I know the mom of a child like that who is just the sweetest person who is at her wits end. I have a young boy and girl that drive me insane sometimes. Imagine the poor mom of all those boys?? The poor thing is probably half looney by now.
Of course, that's no excuse, I'm just trying to say that if you speak to the mom, she might respond very differently than you imagine. I, personally, would much rather be approached by another mom before she spoke to the authorities .
If you already know these people, then I understand your actions.
Good luck.
I think the authorities need to be involved, because I know that my daughter is not the only one this kid has bothered, and I spoke w/ one of the kids' moms and she said she regrets not reporting it to the school. I also think that if it comes from soneone "official", the parents will take it more seriously, and not like I'm just overprotective and blowing things out of proportion. Plus, now it will be documented for the future.
The mom is very nice, according to a neighbor that knows her.
I'm sure they will take it more seriously coming from an authority like the principal. I was just considering the feelings of the mom who may not know anything if nobody is telling her. I would hate to be shocked like that, wouldn't you?
Whatever the method, as long as your daughter is at peace, I guess that is what matters.
Believe me, I've been through bullying with all 3 of my kids as victims, so nobody jump on me. But, it's it just a LITTLE bit ironic that folks want to stop the bullying by sending their tall, intimidating husbands over to threaten the other family????
Because you don't send a puppy dog in to get rid of an alligator.
Unfortunately, those who engage in this kind of behavior don't respond well to "can't we all just get along?" The reason they and their family members are getting by with this type of behavior is because they "bully" the "nice" folks who are trying to be civilized.To quote one of my favorite movies, "I didn't draw First Blood ....."
Well said.
My DH and are the last to initiate fights, arguments or confrontations, but when it comes to our babies, "by any means necessary".
adven68, I totally know where you are coming from on that one too. Actually although my DD isn't a victim of bullying per se, there is a girl in her preschool that can be quite mean and we have been working on that with her: how to deal with this girl's mean and bossy behavior. I met the mom at a birthday party once, she is a very nice lady and even admits that she doesn't know where her daughter gets her (ahem) "assertiveness" from, that she and her husband are quite mild-mannered at home. She said they have daily talks with the girl about how she is to be nice to her playmates, etc. so they are TRYING (but it's not working).
So this is something to keep in mind: simply confronting a parent might not be enough, because the parent may simply not know what to do if their kid is a holy terror. Although it is exceptionally hard to make suggestions (because nobody wants to be told how to parent their child), it might help to be ready with some ideas, or at least resources, in case the parents themselves are at their wit's end about how to correct their child's behavior...kwim? Again probably best to be coming from the school or someone of authority: "Well Mr & Mrs so+so, may we suggest this book or technique to help you get Johnny to understand and find more enjoyable ways to interact with his peers?"
Those of you who are saying that the school is essentially calling the child who is being picked-on or bullyed a liar are right on. That's the message that comes across, loud and clear. It wasn't until years after I was picked-on in school that I figured out that it was the fact that the adults (teachers, school administators, etc.) just dismissed me without a thought that did the most damage, not the bullying itself.
The other thing that I've noticed is the tendency of the schools to turn the bully into a victim, and as a result the bully never really suffers any real consequences. They may get counseling. That's a good step and may help prevent further offenses, but it doesn't really constitute punishment in my mind. Ironically, they also offer counseling to the real victim, thus blurring the lines as to who was the one that actually carried out the inappropriate behaviour.
That's why I decided to teach my DD how to defend herself verbally and physically.
Great advice!
In addition to taking the appropriate steps to stop a bad situation, this, ultimately, will carry your child through life, not being afraid (or, at least, being less afraid!)
I am very interested to see what will happen at kindergarten today. I talked to dd and told her that the principal/guidance counselor/teacher may ask her what has been happening (specific acts and things he said) and tell them how if made her feel, and also to tell them that she has been trying to avoid the bully and that he moves to be near her. I didn't want to coach her, but just told her to tell the truth about what he did. I really don't know if they will speak with my child, though. Seems like they would.
My son had been bullied off and on for a couple of years by a student. I just told him to stay away and ignore him. Well this year I took my son (eleven) to the skating rink and that kid was there. He started messing with my son again. Called him a racially derogatory name and pushed him. My son came over to tell me what happened and I gave him permission to fight him. I was fed up. Well before they had a chance to fight it was broken up.
They were taken into mediation. This is when I found out where this kid was from. Growing up I dealt with the same kids from the same area. They were rough kids. They are taught to be racist and mean. It's a real backwards, impoverished, and depressing area.
I also found out his mother worked with my friend. So I found out he had a really bad family life. So he was more than likely acting out.
So I felt bad for the kid.
I did end up emailing the principal to let him know what happened at the skating rink. I just wanted it to be documented in case something went down at school. I also told the principal things I had found out about the child and thought he would be better served in counseling and not being kicked out of school. He did end up getting kicked out of school just days later for another incident. He was allowed to go to another school and started counseling. I hear he is doing well there.
Sorry, this is getting long, lol.
The point of my post is that you should report these kids not only for your child's safety, but for the safety of the bully. You never know what a child is going through at home. If things are handled right by the school you could be helping the bully too.
This is what happened today. Maybe I'll get it right, but getting a story from a 5 year old is not easy. Not one that makes sense, anyway. 
Today during snack time, the principal came and got dd out of the class. The 2 boys (I didn't know there was another one) were in there, already waiting. The principal taked to dd about what had been happening, and Jonah lied and said he didn't do it, and Daniel fessed up to the things that he said and did. He was actually the one that was pinching dd on the bus. The principal gave dd "Honey Money" for coming forward and telling what happened even though it was hard, and the one boy who lied got into trouble, but the one who admitted to it didn't get itno trouble.
That is the best I can get out of her. I expect the school to call me tomorrow. They called today, and I missed it.
Makes you want to pull a "Hand that ROcks the Cradle" on them. Remember that scene when the "nanny" went to the school and gave what for to that little brat.
WhenI was in high school, some kid used to tell me I had green hair. We had well water and my hair was slightly green because of all the minerals in our water. But once I told him to "F*** off" in front of other kids, he never did it again.
That's such a hard thing to deal with because you don't want your kid to get in trouble for defending herself. Can you go eat lunch with your kid and give this kid the evil eye?
, themsmykids!
She's in PM kindergarten, so they don't have lunch, but you better believe that if our paths ever cross, I'll be whispering a little something in his ear. 
So the Guidance Counselor called this morning. He said it was not Jonah, it was another boy named Daniel, and that it was taken care of. I guess we'll see.
Well, folks-it's not over! The little turd pinched her on the bus today, on the face, and it was hard enough to make her cry and it left a mark. I emailed the teacher that it happened, that I have pics, AND that the bus driver would not let her move to another seat. 
This surprises me, because the prncipal told dd that if it happened again that she should ask the driver to move.
Looks like I'll be marching my booty down to the kindergarten and have to threaten a lawsuit. 
Ho ridiculous is it that I am wondering to myself if dd can take mace to school?
I just emailed the principal, and told her that we have pictures taken 4 hours later to back up the claim that the boy pinched her. If it wasn't him, it was someone.
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