I am a hobby baker who would LOVE to have a small business someday. I did not find any of these posts particularly offensive. montanabaker, I hope you understand that everyone really IS just trying to be helpful. It's very dangerous out there for anyone who wants to operate without a license (even if its' purpose is for you to start saving up for your future cake business). Everyone here is just trying to protect you.
Of course there are also those who get upset to hear about unlicensed businesses. That's because they worked so hard, saved, and spent (and continue to spend) so much of their hard-earned money doing their business legit. So when someone comes along who wants to do it illegally, it winds up hurting their business too, by taking their potential customers.
Anyway, it has been a topic of discussion in the past, and it sometimes gets "heated". But try not to take it personally. I don't think anyone meant to hurt you.
And I wish you Happy Holidays!
I've thought of thirty ways to respond. I've even typed some out only to close the browser becuase it really doesn't need to be said.
I will say this... look at the title of this forum Cake Decorating Business. Most of the people who post here are legal with their own bakery/cake business in one way or another. When someone comes to this particular forum and tries to discuss operating illegally and how to do it it's bound to get ugly.
We as professionals who have not only saved, mortgaged homes, studied law, took classes to learn how to do accounting, worked with our local city, county and states, health departments, departments of Agriculture and many other areas of the law to become legal. We have studied trends in the market, reasearched recipes, spent countless hours baking and testing to make things just right find it highly insulting when those who operate illegally get their lacy panties in a wad when we try to help.
What do you want a blue ribbon and a go ahead from us to operate illegally? Go for it and live it up but please don't come running back here asking our advice about what to do next if you ever get caught. Our sound advice will be "hire a good lawyer you are going to need it."
I had a good friend in California get caught and it cost her nearly $500,000 (yes that is five hundred thousand dollars) before it was said and done. She lost her home, the stress over it cost her her marriage, and her baking reputation 10 years later is still in the toilet AND her paychecks are still being garnished over it.
That $500K went to fines, lawsuit settlements from the consumers who became ill from her food and had a justified reason to sue her (which caused her to be exposed baking and operating illegally), IRS back taxes owed (they were not kind), health department fines, fines for operating with out a business license in her city, county and state, and legal fees.
So anyone who wants to make comments to any one of us business owners about operating a food consumption based business being a "luxury" I say this... operating at the luxury of being illegal is something no one can afford.
Our sound advice will be "hire a good lawyer you are going to need it."
.... but that's such MEAN advice. Ya big meanie. Meany Mean Mc Meanerson. 
I also meant to say...
Just because you (said to the general public) don't own a business does not make you unprofessional and those of us who do professionals.
Sorry if it came across that way. That one part was poorly worded and I'm sorry if that sounded bad.
I know that alot of the replys were trying to be helpful. Just a few bad eggs in the mix.
Anyways, good news for all of you who are mad at me...I finally got to talk to my health department because it's monday, and I CAN get licensed in my home. I just need a second kitchen. I've got an unfinished basement that dh was going to start working on in a month anyways...so I will be legal soon. Til then I'll lay low, and maybe just do family birthdays.
This site is helpful, I just don't like when negetivity gets involved.
Thats great that you can be legal from your own home!! How awesome for you! I'm sure that there will be a fire under DH's butt to get going on that renovation now hey??
Montana, congratulations on taking the first start to being legal and getting a home kitchen licensed! That is a great step that you are able to take.
Honestly, I didn't see any negativity in what was being posted by the everyone. You asked for advice and they gave it, you just didn't like the answers. I didn't see that they ranted at you or were negative except to state that you should not do the bridal show as an unlicensed baker. I didn't see any negativity in responses until you came back and posted in what was a rather snotty way.
Congratulations again on your second kitchen! Keep us posted on the progress!
I know that alot of the replys were trying to be helpful. Just a few bad eggs in the mix.
Anyways, good news for all of you who are mad at me...I finally got to talk to my health department because it's monday, and I CAN get licensed in my home. I just need a second kitchen. I've got an unfinished basement that dh was going to start working on in a month anyways...so I will be legal soon. Til then I'll lay low, and maybe just do family birthdays.
This site is helpful, I just don't like when negetivity gets involved.
I don't think anyone was mad at you but at the situation. If you stick around long enough you will be amazed at how many people come here with the "I'm not legal but..." and ask the question then get more than peeved for us being honest.
As much as it hurts to read it here it's better to learn from our tough love then when you are being served papers.
We are all passionate to this industry and because of that guard our business like no tomorrow because we've been in the trenches.
As for being able to work in your own home, I can't begin to tell you how great of an adventure it will be.
I look forward to helping you become legal. If you have any questions about liability insurance costs, color schemes, appliance brands we are here for you.
I warn you though I'm very passionate about another topic.. people saying you have to have a KA to do this job. I have to defend my sumbeam mixers very passionately when this topic comes up. More so than the legal vs. legal topic we discussed here. 
Please, please, please before you invest ANY money in your basement remodel go to www.mt.gov, "Business" tab, then Food Licensing. All the bare minimum guidelines are there. They are very specific in this state about guidelines and while they may license a kitchen in your basement they are going to be very specific about it. It is more then simply putting an oven in the basement with a sink. More than likely they will want a totally separate entrance, commercial is required and possible a separate septic.
I highly suggest that you have an building planner draw up plan and then present them to the health department before you even put nail to wood. It will save time, money an a headache in the long run. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
ETA: I went through all of this last year, I know how easy its not
I wish you nothing but the best! And yes, some replies may not have been dripping with sugar and spice, but honesty cannot always be concealed behind courtesy. Frankly, I prefer people to tell me what I need to hear instead of what I want to hear. And sometimes, it stings a little.
I have seriously curtailed my "illegal" baking for the simple fact that I could not find a kitchen in my area who would allow me to rent space (even though I tried and tried and tried to find one). Since I could not bake out of a licensed kitchen, and my business was getting way too noticeable to stay under the radar, I sent an email out to all of my clients and stated that I was no longer taking paid orders from new clients and that any referrals from old clients will only be taken on a case by case basis. I'm sure even that will get me into trouble one day...
Yeah...it frustrates me because I feel that I am just as talented, if not more so, than many of the bakers in my area. Granted, I know I have a lot to learn still, but the fact that I do not have equity in my home or $200,000 in the bank to open my own shop, should not mean that I have to stop doing what I love. Well...I guess legally it does. And that sucks. I've tried getting jobs doing decorating, but I cannot live off $10-$15.00 an hour. And what good does that experience get you if you can never afford to save the money to open your own shop?
Kudos to you for researching your State's requirements for a home bakery! I wish California wasn't so stringet.
Hi to all,
I just am getting the chance to read the replies since I posted.
For anyone who forgot to read my first paragraph or glanced over it. I wasn't talking about anyone who is a "hobbiest" or even those who don't live in Orlando since I don't know what everyone's state dictates to what constitutes a legal cake shop.
A little about my backround MontanaBaker since you thought I have a luxury of opening a cake shop with such deep pockets.
I have been a savory chef for 20 years as well as a baker. I started like most everyone else does in the dishroom scrubbing pans and after my shift I would go off the clock and watch the baker if he wasn't busy.
I was forturnate enough in 1997 to open an Italian restaurant with my family here in the Orlando area for 7 years working 363 days each year for the first 2 years only having off Christmas, Thanksgiving, and Easter.
after the restaurant I went back to private country clubs where I was working when one fateful day in 2003. The club was using a home baker getting a cut of the sales of the cakes. This women brought in a cake that she had frozen and it began to sweat to the point where it fell over.
I have never seen a person (bride) cry with such intensity in all my life. Her day that she was planning since she was 5 was ruined. I quit that day and began to take cake classes starting with the Wilton at Joann's and then the Master course in Chicago.
Over the next 4 years I spent an easy $15,000 on classes that I saved up for working in hot kitchens. I spent the last 4 years before opening my cake studio this past year practicing, learning ,researching, etc to I the point I felt I was ready to have business.
I spent in the past year many thousands of dollars reinvesting back in the business and paying down debt.
I was surprised as the year went on that there was this enormous amount of people unlicensed in Orlando.
I am talking about these people that have websites, advertise in the Knot and the Perfect Wedding Guide, go to bridal shows and the networking luncheons. etc...
So before you mention anything about roses under noses I would suggest that you would read my first post and this one and know I didn't say or suggest anything "mean"
Many of the others have said it better than I did but it gets down to the fact that rules are rules and in Orlando where I have a business the rule is that you can't bake from home...
sorry so long winded and boring,
michael
I can see where some of the responses oozed of sarcasm and not real constructive criticism, but for the most part I thought they were pretty helpful and insightful.
Try this one on for size, I have studied culinary arts and classical pastry for 17 years, graduated at the top of my class from a culinary institute, studied in 3 countries, and have been liscensed in 2 states and 2 countries. I invest oodles of money to do so only to have to move every 3 years due to the military(not that I'm complaining). Even if I wanted to it's pointless to invest in a business outside of my home (thanks to the great state of Texas where you can't have a home food business- oh! but you can have a TACO TRUCK!!) because I know I'm outta here in 2 years. So now I have to settle for baking in someone elses' kitchen. It sucks because I know they get a lot of credit for a lot of my work. It's alright though because the pictures help me build up my portfolio, the experience helps me develop my craft and when the proverbial caca hits the fan, they get to take all the heat.
I can't wait for the day my DH retires from the Army so I can finally get my career started up again!
(thanks to the great state of Texas where you can't have a home food business- oh! but you can have a TACO TRUCK!!)
Oh now THAT is twisted!!!
Can you feel my pain?
They tried to implement some measure to ban the taco trucks, but people were all in an uproar so the state backed off.
I've seen some down right skanky liscensed cake decorating businesses as well as bakeries all over the country, that's why I don't allow people who are "legit" (just because they have their own shops) to talk down to me because I don't own my own business- yet! I know my standard of practice and I abide by the laws of whatever state, city or county I'm in. That being said, there are plenty of business owners who have done all the legalistic things neccessary to operate a legit business and they're standard of work is sub-par and most often their businesses are nasty to boot. So in the end they end up paying just as many fines as someone who's just running a "bastard business" (illegitimate).
Whatever your situation is, whether you feel wronged by people who are lowballing you or you feel like you're being looked down on by people who feel superior to you, your passion dictates your success. Those illegal businesses will get their "just desserts" (no pun intended) and those who feel like they're not respected because they don't own their own business, do what you have to do to make YOURSELF happy. It's like my mother always said:
"If you don't pay my bills, don't sleep in my bed, and can't take away my freedom, then I don't care much for your opinion of me"
HERE'S THE POST SCRIPT (PS) TO THAT THOUGH: I also don't ask for people's opinion when I don't care about it, and when I do ask, I accept it for what it is...their opinion and you have to respect that all opinions won't be like yours.
Right now the only cakes I make outside the kitchen are for my family and friends that I take to parties I will be attending. So when I need my ego to be stroked, I get it done there.
Montanabaker~ I hope it goes well for you.
I can honestly say that I sleep better knowing I am covered. I don't think I'm better than anyone... I have a lot to learn, but it was the right choice for me.
Before getting licensed, I did some cakes "at cost" but ultimately decided it was worth the money to get licensed. I am fortunate to live in a state where it is affordable to do so. (I required both city permit and state licenses) which have to be visibly displayed.
I also have $1,000,000.00 liablity insurance. My homeowner's insurance does not underwrite home businesses so I had to get separate insurance through another carrier. It was a process...
Also, at the first of the year I am becoming an LLC, just incase... (read below for explanation... 
)
You see, I am one of those people who lives under an anvil tree (if something bad is going to happen, it's going to happen to me. ) I'm not a negative person, but when I heard I could lose my house over a CAKE, that was enough! Except for people with a justified reason to sue, we do live in a sue-happy society. The fire inspector gave me the heads-up on that one!!! He said to "be aware that people LIE, and it's better to let your lawyers duke it out"... People fly under the radar everyday, but I'd never get a way with that. 
Good luck to you and keep us posted. I'm envious of that second kitchen...
Congrats on the possiblity of having a home kitchen! As someone else mentioned, make sure you educate yourself not only with Dept. of Health regs but also city regulations. Just because the Dept. of Health or Ag doesn't require something doesn't mean your city doesn't. For example, here in Florida the Dept. of Ag doesn't mandate or inspect for a grease trap, but the city requires cake businesses have them. The more you educate yourself now, the less headaches you'll have down the road. I wish you the best of luck. I certainly wish I could have a home kitchen here in Florida.
As for legal vs. illegal, there's always going to be a difference of opinion. We all have to start somewhere, and baking as a hobbyist or selling an occasional cake for money isn't the issue. What is a problem is when unlicensed bakers take their businesses to the next level without obtaining a legal license and without regard for the law. It's against the law to operate a cake business without a license, plain and simple. There's enough cake business to go around, and part of what makes owning a business interesting is good competition. It certainly keeps me from getting too comfortable, and motivates me to stay innovative and continue to perfect my craft. For me it's not about whether or not you're taking business from me by flying under the radar or undercutting my prices. However, I do take issue with people promoting their illegal businesses as if they were legal with websites, advertising on Craigslist, participating in bridal shows, etc. as well as not paying taxes, etc. like the rest of us. It's blatant disregard for the law from many different angles. I understand people have to do what they must to make ends meet. However, there are food regulations in place for a reason, and not following sanitation procedures as set forth by law puts people's health and well-being at risk. I guess I'm just one that feels more comfortable doing things the right way. Bottom line is if you can't afford to start your own business, then remain a hobbyist until you are financially prepared to take the plunge. There's nothing wrong with waiting for the right time. The possible repercussions of operating illegally and losing everything just isn't worth it. Of course, I would hope no one on CC would ever turn someone into the Dept. of Health or Ag. It's their job to investigate illegal businesses, not ours.
A big ditto to speaking to the relevant authorities before you start any renovations. When I decided to renovate my kitchen I contacted our local Environmental Health department and spent the next few months emailing back and forth while I drew up our kitchen plans to make sure I thought of everything - e.g. did I need a dishwasher, window blinds, could I have a washing machine in the kitchen, what type of cleaning detergents were required... She sent me heaps of information which also covered other areas to consider like checking my title deeds, various insurance cover, changing my car insurance etc. By the time my kitchen was done and ready to be inspected I was all set to just "switch on" the next day.
Make friends with your department of Health/Agriculture/city officials!
Well, I am so excited! I went to the health department today and all systems are a go! Got all the forms and packets I need with the rules and regulations so I am set. Now i got to start drawing out all my plans, but yay!
Well thanks all for your comments, even though at the time I guess I didn't like some of the things...Now that I know I can do this legally from my home I feel better and I'm just gonna do family cakes for the next couple of months.
Merry christmas.
They tried to implement some measure to ban the taco trucks, but people were all in an uproar so the state backed off.
This is what I don't get! There are SO many Texans on this site-why can't we all band together, get the homebakers in the area together, and petition the state? If there are enough of us, you think it would be possible to change the stupid law, if the taco truck people could do it.
A few of us tried back in '07. The legislature will be in session again next month, so it may be time to try again.
http://www.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-46933-texas.html
They tried to implement some measure to ban the taco trucks, but people were all in an uproar so the state backed off.
This is what I don't get! There are SO many Texans on this site-why can't we all band together, get the homebakers in the area together, and petition the state? If there are enough of us, you think it would be possible to change the stupid law, if the taco truck people could do it.
Let's do it! Tha MAN can't tell us we're not as good as those taco trucks...even though some of them are pretty good.
hey Mike, I think there is a post somewhere on CC where someone does have a cake truck or a camper trailer or RV type vehicle converted for baking
Homebakers Unite! Anyone got any ideas about how to do this? Anyone interested? We've got a month...
idea ..... make a list of what you consider similar businesses, like the taco trucks. Show them to your legislators and ask them "How are these different from what I'm asking to do?" I'd put them on the spot and ask what kind of "special favors" are/were needed to get a taco truck ok'd .... with cheese that can mold, meat that can spoil, and hot temps that need maintained .... but something as "simple" as baking a cake is somehow dangerous? Hmmmmmmmm????????
I would love to be able to legally operate a cake business here in Texas from my home! Right now I only bake for family, church gatherings, friends, etc... Basically, I just give my cakes away! I would love to show my cakes here, but I have nothing but trouble trying to load them. I may try again after this post..... Let me know if I can join the band wagon for Texan cake bakers! : )
Well, we are in the same boat here in Washinton....so how many of us are there in Washington??? I'd be willing to get that band wagon started here too!!
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