k8... I'm sure you are right, not everyone has spoken their mind on this topic. The ONLY REASON I hate seeing these threads is because of the NASTY argumnets that ensue... I can remember one last summer where a certain member challenged mix bakers to a cake "throwdown" because she wanted to embarass mix bakers and even threatened to "invite the local media" to film the throwdown. I made the mistake of saying I was a mix baker in that one, and can say I was burned so bad I didn't come back on CC for months... I don't want to see that happen to another newbie... As for your comment on starting another thread, what purpose would that serve? I've posted several times to avoid a long and lengthy heated discussion, but somehow started one in the process... I'm bowing out now... thanks!
(Edited for spelling)
I only read a couple of this thread, but would like to say that I am a "both girl"... I give tastings for free, and I've only had ONE person be able to tell the difference - she said the boxed cake & icing was sweeter. Most of my customers like those flavors - and I mix it up, I used the Cake Doctor book sometimes with mixes.... and I also make scratch cakes for vegetarian, vegan, lactose intollerant... If your customer wants a mix cake, make it with mix - or visa-versa.
Also, I see this type of posting as a "Coke or Pepsi" issue - there are ALWAYS going to be 2 sides, with great arguments. I am a Coke person, however if the restaurant I'm at only serves Pepsi, I'll take it or leave it. I think we should all support each other to do what we want to do - be honest with our customers about what's in their cake; and just enjoy our work! I like decorating the best anyway!
I only read a couple of this thread, but would like to say that I am a "both girl"... I give tastings for free, and I've only had ONE person be able to tell the difference - she said the boxed cake & icing was sweeter. Most of my customers like those flavors - and I mix it up, I used the Cake Doctor book sometimes with mixes.... and I also make scratch cakes for vegetarian, vegan, lactose intollerant... If your customer wants a mix cake, make it with mix - or visa-versa.
Also, I see this type of posting as a "Coke or Pepsi" issue - there are ALWAYS going to be 2 sides, with great arguments. I am a Coke person, however if the restaurant I'm at only serves Pepsi, I'll take it or leave it. I think we should all support each other to do what we want to do - be honest with our customers about what's in their cake; and just enjoy our work! I like decorating the best anyway!
I use box mixes for my cakes but make my frosting home made and use real butter. I use hi ratio shortening frosting for wedding cakes. I cannot afford the time to make cakes from scratch. It would major cut into my profit. My community is not large enough to support me making cakes at $4 and $5 a serve. My market is more like around $2 a serve. I make a lot of cakes in the $30 to $50 range. I do very little fondant and instead have tried to really develop good buttercream techniques such as FBCT and figure piping that I can do quickly. I keep my flavor selection pretty limited to what I feel are the good flavors of cake mix. I absolutely would not make a carrot cake, spice cake or red velvet from a box. Yuk. If someone needs a lactose free or egg free cake, I do that from scratch and they pay for the extra time it will take me. I wouldn't argue whether my box cakes are better than scratch. It doesn't matter. They are much better than the wally world and grocery store frozen cakes and always fresh. So my customers are satisfied with the value of the product at the price I offer. My distributor stopped by a couple days ago and told me that the grocery stores and walmart were now getting their cakes frozen AND frosted. All they're doing on site now is the decorating. A box cake is also pretty cheap. Costs me $1.60 for a box cake and ingredients. If I bought all the items individual and then added in the time to mix them, I'd have to start raising my prices. This is not a good time to be raising prices.
I like tuning in on CC because there is always something going on 24/7. If we only discussed new topics which had never been brought up before, I think we would be hard pressed to come up with threads.
We have new decorators coming on here every day. The new decorators never had a chance to put their voice in on the old threads. I think it is great to get new input on an old subject.
If they are just to add their comments to an old thread, they get so long it takes too long to read from the beginning. I personally think it is rather rude to tell a newcomer, "we have already discussed that, you will have to search for it and find out what we said."
.....and I am a scratch baker and a buttercream decorator. When I do a cake, it is my creation with no help from Duncan Hines or Satin Ice. I would have it no other way.
I agree whole heartedly with Jovy and Sweettoothmom. I am a die hard scratch baker. The times I have used a box cake...which was a long time ago, I felt guilty. I felt as if I was cheating the customer. I was raised on scratch cakes because whenever my mom did bake it was from scratch. She actually refuses to eat box cakes (that's if she knows in advance) and says that she can "taste a box cake from a mile away".
However, I am not as animately against box cakes as she is because I understand that each person has their own style and preferences in the kitchen. I will eat cake made from a box. It doesn't make the baker/decorator any less talented. Some people pour all their time and energy into the cake itself and others pour it into the decorating. Not many can do both consistantly....unless they are superwoman or superman 
I know that my decorating is not all that hot but I know that I can burn in the kitchen 
Hi - I live in Australia, and I've not chimed in yet on one of these 'ongoing arguments about scratch vs box mix'. I think the comment above about newer posters having a right to discuss this issue is valid. If you are sick and tired of the discussion, then hey, no-one is insisting you participate. Yes?
I, too, enjoy hearing about the differences in baking styles and preferences in the USA. I have even gone so far as to order American DH and BC box mixes to trial at home to get an idea what the 'standard' is in the USA and therefore be more informed when I wish to compare my own way of doing things to the sorts of things being discussed here on CC, and also relating that to the recipes here on CC ("calibrating" myself, in effect). From what I have experimented with (and from a 3 month stay in the USA some years ago) I have a clearer picture about the level of sweetness and 'softness' that is more or less expected in an American cake.
Here, the traditional wedding cake has been as in the UK - a rich fruit cake, but in the last 20 years or so. a lot of brides have been wanting 'mud cakes' - dense rich chocolate, white choc or caramel mud cakes. The focus here is more on presentation and intricate decoration, though that is changing to mass produced designs made using stencils and silicon molds etc.
Probably the most interesting difference between USA and Oz, is that we have a HUGE influence from many continental and Asian countries in our sweet baked items. I think in that respect one can be more liberal with how much isomething I bake varies from a 'standard palate feel'...because there really isn't one. In other words, there is SO much more to baking here than the fluffiness and whiteness of your cake. From my experience there seems to be a greater acceptance of different tastes and textures. We have an increasing demand for organic cakes and ingredients, and international dishes (eg: crocque-em-bouche wedding cakes).
I bake from scratch - even my wedding cakes. I grew up baking so I have never had an issue with baking as some kind of mysterious science. Boxed cakes I've tried over the years have a commercial texture and flavour that is instantly recognizable. In terms of price, there is NO price advantage for me to bake from a box. And finally, I do would not get much satisfaction from making a box cake - it defeats the purpose for me. Yes, I have time to bake, but really - again - I do not see much difference in the time required to measure scratch ingredients, compared to measuring oil and liquids to add to your box mix.
So, in summary, I believe its simply a cultural preference that drives this demand for soft sweet fluffy cakes...because most folks in the USA over the past few generations have become accustomed to this more commercial, reliable (as in reproducible) taste. As most of us are in business (ie to make money), and a lot of us DO take more time to bake from scratch, AND for some box mixes are the cheapest option, I have absolutely no problem with folks using a box mix in order to sell their cakes to the public. Give them what they want!
But do not be afraid to try new things! 
And thanks for letting me give y'all my 2 cents
Well said, Evoir.
Reminds me of an old quote:
On the essentials. unity.
On the non-essentials, liberty.
and in all things, charity.
This American debate/feud of ours has de-generated into personal self worth issues. I guess because it has no basis in fact. I mean like within the populace not just cakers. Notice how many of us comment on feelings of guilt for using mixes or cheating.
Crazy but true.
Maybe we should all move to Australia!!! 
Notice how many of us comment on feelings of guilt for using mixes or cheating.
Yeah, the use of the word "cheating" really bugs me. "Cheating" implies something immoral or illegal ... how that applies to making a cake is beyond me! 
Hi - I live in Australia, and I've not chimed in yet on one of these 'ongoing arguments about scratch vs box mix'. I think the comment above about newer posters having a right to discuss this issue is valid. If you are sick and tired of the discussion, then hey, no-one is insisting you participate. Yes?
OMG- this is one of those posts that I just wish would die and not come back. Why do you insist on telling me that newer posters have a right to post their opinion? THis post is from LAST JULY. I regret ever posting to it, and I NEVER said a new person to this forum has no right to post their opinion. AGAIN, I WAS JUST TRYING TO STOP A HEATED DISCUSSION, AND YET ONE STARTED AGAIN. I'm out and done posting to this. LET IT GO- THIS POST IS OLD. I get it, I made a mistake by trying to stop it, if I could go back and delete everything I said I would.
I think when the word *cheating* comes up, they're referring to people who use a mix but won't admit it when they're asked by a client.
client~ Do you bake from a mix?
baker~ I use a *secret* family recipe.
In my state of MA, I don't have the luxury of not telling a client the exact ingredients in my products, it's the law and I have to follow that law.
example~ if I sell individually wrapped cookies, I have to include an ingredients list label on each cookie.
I don't give out my recipes, but I do have to disclose what's in the product they are purchasing.
I think when the word *cheating* comes up, they're referring to people who use a mix but won't admit it when they're asked by a client.
client~ Do you bake from a mix?
baker~ I use a *secret* family recipe.
In my state of MA, I don't have the luxury of not telling a client the exact ingredients in my products, it's the law and I have to follow that law.
example~ if I sell individually wrapped cookies, I have to include an ingredients list label on each cookie.
I don't give out my recipes, but I do have to disclose what's in the product they are purchasing.
Maybe but not always.
I agree whole heartedly with Jovy and Sweettoothmom. I am a die hard scratch baker. The times I have used a box cake...which was a long time ago, I felt guilty. I felt as if I was cheating the customer. I was raised on scratch cakes because whenever my mom did bake it was from scratch. She actually refuses to eat box cakes (that's if she knows in advance) and says that she can "taste a box cake from a mile away".
However, I am not as animately against box cakes as she is because I understand that each person has their own style and preferences in the kitchen. I will eat cake made from a box. It doesn't make the baker/decorator any less talented. Some people pour all their time and energy into the cake itself and others pour it into the decorating. Not many can do both consistantly....unless they are superwoman or superman
I know that my decorating is not all that hot but I know that I can burn in the kitchen
Just to clarify. When I said that I felt guilty, it's because I was under the assumption that all "baker's" were supposed to bake from scratch when selling cakes. I know this sounds very naive but back in the late 90's and early 2000's this is what I thought. It wasn't until I worked with a girl at my former job who decorated cakes, did I realize that not all decorated cakes were from scratch. Her cakes were beautiful but still came from a box. Did they taste good...yes...but they were still from box.
I guess I still have my mom in my head saying "I refuse to eat scratch cakes" and "scratch cakes are the best" and "real bakers bake from scratch" (just a little psycho babble with my mom in my head 
).
So....when I said that I felt guilty, it wasn't because I was trying to deceive the recipient. I only baked a couple of cakes from a box and they were both told that they were from a box. They were actually gift cakes.
I'll remain a die hard scratch baker because I love the whole process of scratch baking and the challange of creating and mastering new recipes. I taught myself to bake at the age of 12 and being a scratch baker is part of who I am....I enjoy it.
Each to her or his own...ya know 
Just to clarify...
So....when I said that I felt guilty, it wasn't because I was trying to deceive the recipient. I only baked a couple of cakes from a box and they were both told that they were from a box. They were actually gift cakes.
Yes and that's what my thing is--it's that this is cultural--has nothing whatsoever to do with fact. Because each side's arguments (as in debate type arguments) don't hold.
Foxymomma - I meant no disrespect to you personally.
I have noticed a whole bunch of recent (or recently resurrected) threads on this topic, and just so happened to post in this one.
I am keen to discuss the 'nuts and bolts' of cake making and decorating, not get into flame wars with anybody...if you continued to read my post it was all about cutlural differences between the USA and Australia, not shutting anybody down
Forgive and forget?
sorry--- 
this is just the one and only thread I have ever regretted posting to, and of course it gets resurrected months later... 
My fault, and didn't mean to get not so nice about it-
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