Guys In Your Class?

Decorating By nglez09 Updated 6 Feb 2007 , 5:34am by Sweetpeeps

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nglez09 Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 2:19am
post #1 of 38

How many of you guys know guys that are cake decorators or who were in your class?

Did you find that they were better than most of the others in the class or not?

Do any of your husbands help out in the decorating of the cakes? Are they good?

I read somewhere that hand-eye coordination is found as a superior trait in males, which is why (in the grand scope and generalization of things) men are better drivers than females.

Is cake decorating directly related to hand-eye coordination?

Hopefully I'm not sounding like a sexist advocate of machismo, as I am not. Lol. Just asking out of curiosity. Don't hit me! icon_lol.gif

37 replies
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RisqueBusiness Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 2:29am
post #2 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by nglez09

How many of you guys know guys that are cake decorators or who were in your class?

Did you find that they were better than most of the others in the class or not?

Do any of your husbands help out in the decorating of the cakes? Are they good?

I read somewhere that hand-eye coordination is found as a superior trait in males, which is why (in the grand scope and generalization of things) men are better drivers than females.

Is cake decorating directly related to hand-eye coordination?

Hopefully I'm not sounding like a sexist advocate of machismo, as I am not. Lol. Just asking out of curiosity. Don't hit me! icon_lol.gif




in some of my classes it was like 50 /50 then some others it was more guys...but then I went to Culinary School..and for the longest time...Being a Chef was a male dominated field.

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cakerator Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 2:30am
post #3 of 38

ahem... where on earth did you learn that men were better drivers than women?
i'm not going to fall into the trap you are setting with that comment by moving on...
there weren't any males in my wilton class, so i cannot comment on how they are as decorators. but, from watching food network, i would have to say that the women are EQUALLY as talented as the men in the competitions.

as for my DH, he isn't interested in decorating cakes. that's my 'thing'.

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nglez09 Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 3:18am
post #4 of 38

I read a report that stated it as fact (that men are better drivers than men).

And the reason behind it is that men have more neurons in a certain part of the brain that has to do w/ hand eye coordination, which is why more men work in jobs of that type and not women.

Someone also had an opinion that men were better decorators than women, so I was asking from all your experiences if you saw that as the case, generalizing of course and by no means stating is as fact.

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JoAnnB Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 6:42am
post #5 of 38

Sorry, but I think your article is a load of crap. Statistically men have more accidents, and teenaged males are the worst of all.

As for decorating, it is a skill anyone can learn. The best work is by artists, not technicians.

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JoanneK Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 6:57am
post #6 of 38

Well for 20 years I worked in the insurance industry handling claims in CA and I can verify men were better drivers when it comes to accidents. However, men do get more tickets and when they are in an accident they tend to have way more injuries and deaths involved.

As far as men decorators I had one guy in one of my classes when I first started and then one when I took another class.

Right now I have a WONDERFUL man teaching me gumpaste flowers and he is one of the best decorators I've seen.

I also think some of the best decorators I've seen or read about are men but there are by far way more women who do decorate.

I do not agree that ANYONE can learn to decorate cakes. I do think is a talent and that many people can learn it but not everyone. It takes a lot of hard work and even a lot more talent to make some of the really wonderful looking cakes I've seen.

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ckdcr8r Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 7:22am
post #7 of 38

In the 8 years I have taught Wilton, I have had about 10 men total take my class. Two just recently with their wives. The funny thing about those two was they were way more technical about the whole thing than the women, and they were analyzing the techniques way too much. The last one happens to be a painter (oils) and from an artist standpoint, he would be very good at design, but needs to focus on the artistry of cake decorating rather than the physics. His wife's roses were way better! icon_lol.gif

One guy in class several years ago was just a trip! He did so great and I ran into him not too long ago and is still at it. Two were European and worked at a Swiss cake shop and wanted to learn American techniques. They were perfectionists and insisted their decorations look exactly like those in the book and I had a hard time convincing them about personal style.

One husband took the class with his pregnant wife so they had something they could do together and both be involved with their new baby's birthday cakes. If I remember, I think he did a little better than she did. One guy was allergic to eggs, so we did the Course 2 flowers in fondant. He was good, but limited because of the allergy. And I had one teenage boy that didn't seem to have self confidence. He didn't try hard enough. He was interested, but I don't think that was the right food path for him.

I worked along side a Hispanic male decorator/ pastry chef that got training in France after winning a chocolate contest in Mexico City. He was an awesome decorator and I learned most of my detail skills and chocolate skills from him. The only thing I saw that he lacked occasionally was the ability to coordinate colors. I just think women have a better knack for that. Men aren't good at the "froo froo" part.

In talking with older women, and even some men, who decorated since long ago, they have told me that back in the day, cake decorating, and most all parts of the chef/baker/food service world was a man's territory. Cake decorating today is definitely a woman's world.

In the bakery I work in, all the men are bakers. We have one helping us for the season who used to be a baker, but can also decorate. He is regularly a cashier now, but helps us out when we are busy. He's not very good at decorating, but he ices cakes real good, so we have him do that.

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redpanda Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 7:59am
post #8 of 38

My dh took Wilton Course 2, because my son, who had planned on taking the three course series, had a time conflict. I think he does really well for a newbie (see Phrodod's cakes in the gallery), but I also think he has benefitted a lot from having seen me decorating for the past 10 years.

I think men and women have different skills when it comes to driving, and that women probably tend to multi-task more when driving. (Probably because they *can* (LOL), but shouldn't.) I wonder how much of the difference is neurological and how much is upbringing. We generally give our daughters toys which encourage nurturing and domestic skils, and give our sons toys which encourange manual dexterity and eye-hand coordination.

RedPanda (stepping off my soap box for now)

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RisqueBusiness Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 2:07pm
post #9 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by RisqueBusiness

Quote:
Originally Posted by nglez09

How many of you guys know guys that are cake decorators or who were in your class?

Did you find that they were better than most of the others in the class or not?

Do any of your husbands help out in the decorating of the cakes? Are they good?

I read somewhere that hand-eye coordination is found as a superior trait in males, which is why (in the grand scope and generalization of things) men are better drivers than females.

Is cake decorating directly related to hand-eye coordination?

Hopefully I'm not sounding like a sexist advocate of machismo, as I am not. Lol. Just asking out of curiosity. Don't hit me! icon_lol.gif



in some of my classes it was like 50 /50 then some others it was more guys...I went to Culinary School..

for the longest time being a Chef was a male dominated field ( I don't know why that is so..) and all the bread bakers were men. I don't know why...because at home most bakers were women.

But in most bakeries, were family owned where the men baked and decorated ( those old time cakes were MUFUGLY and that's what got me into decorating myself!!) and the wives and daughters ran the front of the bakery..lol

Well...Hey..did that info I pm'ed you help??? was it what you were looking for???


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indydebi Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 2:32pm
post #10 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoanneK

Well for 20 years I worked in the insurance industry handling claims in CA and I can verify men were better drivers when it comes to accidents. However, men do get more tickets and when they are in an accident they tend to have way more injuries and deaths involved.




Your statement is a conflict in itself. "Men get more tickets and when they are in an accident, they tend to have way more injuries and deaths...." Based on this you call them better drivers? If men were better drivers, the insurance industry would give them better rates. And they don't. The single fact that they get more tickets tells you they are not safe drivers; they are driving too fast, disregarding too many traffic lights and stop signs, not yielding the right of way when required, etc. I would much rather have a fender bender with a (any sex) driver than I would an accident with the type of male you mention above ...... and have to bury my husband or my child.

I also come from 20 years in the insurance industry..... personal auto.

Kind of along those lines, I also read an article on the differences between men and women. Women tend to have better hearing than men (which is why they wake up in the middle of the night when the baby cries) and they have better hand dexterity, which is why they are better typists (and the article pointed out this trait as the reason there should be more women brain surgeons).

I would wonder, then if the difference is not hand/eye coordination but dexterity? During the early years of video games, it was argued that it helped hand/eye coordination and the counter argument was hand/eye corrdination could be learned on a tennis court. So how does being able to hit a tennis ball correspond to being able to manipulate your fingers in the subtle squeezings and manipulations of a pastry bag? I think these are two different things and it's more dexterity than hand/eye. Just an idea for discussion......

I would agree with you that decorating cakes is a talent and some people just cannot learn it. My sister is a wonderful artist ...... with paint and canvas. I can't paint anything and she can't decorate a cake. We're both "artists" in our own way, but we can't do the cross-over.

You're right, we dont' want to stereotype anyone. There was a time when women were not typists or doctors or police and men were not office assistants and teachers and nurses. (Yes, in the very very early days ... even before MY time! icon_wink.gif --- it was considered an "unseemly" job for a woman to be a typist.)

I think it has to do with passion. If you love doing this, if you have the passion, you will do great!

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bobwonderbuns Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 2:39pm
post #11 of 38

I teach a cookie class every month for a local charity and each time there are anywhere from maybe 8 to 20 people -- and there is almost always one guy in the class. The odd thing is, the women are the "housewife crowd" and the guy (always a different guy mind you) is always a young man in his late teens or early 20s! The young men in my class are very talented and ironically they are the ones who ask to assist the teacher (moi) and help other students as well as help clean up!! Go figure!!

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notjustanycake Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 2:59pm
post #12 of 38

My husband has no intrest in cake decorating. I can ask him what he thinks about a cake I'm working on and he looks at it and says " looks fine to me'.

My dad on the other hand was my right hand man when I lived at home. He did all my leaves. His was just beautiful and perfect. I miss having him aroun when I have a lot of flowers to do. And he was great at eyeing the cake and telling me if it was leaning a little or if the decorations were off balance and he has never taken a cake decorating course. I think some people just have a natural talent. Man or Woman.

My little boy is a junior decorator. He has had an icing bag in his hands since he was 2 (he's 6 now). He's very creative. I hope he keeps his love of the kitchen.

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starrchaser Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 3:10pm
post #13 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoAnnB

Sorry, but I think your article is a load of crap. Statistically men have more accidents, and teenaged males are the worst of all.

As for decorating, it is a skill anyone can learn. The best work is by artists, not technicians.




I think that "generally" speakin men and teen boys have more accidents is because men are idiots lol. But seriously men tend to drive faster and disobef road rules. Women are more cautious and drive according to the rules of the road. Impared driving is also more common in men. So although genetically men may be better drivers the stupidity offsets that. LOL

As for the decorating thing i'm not sure there are none in my area but my area is small. I have heard thet men are better hairdressers in general. At the community college i went to there was 1 guy in the cosmetology class and he was by far the best. And he was sooo not gay either which i think is the misconseption in these types of feilds. Just myh 2 cents. icon_biggrin.gif

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Richard Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 4:18pm
post #14 of 38

My husband helps me in the kitchen even if it is just doing the clean up. He just recently enrolled in the Wilton Class 1. He is very interested in what I do and would like to understand it more. He made his first cake and decorated it and it turned out well. I am honoured that he is so interested in what I do and wants to help out when he can. I hope it continues and he progresses through all of the courses. Of course, that will be his choice but I will encourage him whenever I can. He did say it is more work than he realized. Perhaps more husbands should get involved just to know what it involves to make and decorate a cake. They would probably be more understanding.

Kathy

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Zmama Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 4:56pm
post #15 of 38

My fiance - technical and scientific, not artistic. I'm the opposite. He is MUCH better at crumb coating, and learns things easily when I teach him the technical way, but not if I tell him "we need roses."
Men are just as good, but at different things. Our understanding of things is different - different physical connections made in the brain as we learn.

We find that working together is better than working alone because we get both sides of it. I have never had cake problems when he helped design the stability, and he has inspired me with his ideas.

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Cakers84 Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 4:57pm
post #16 of 38

nglez09...here is a non-professional opinion. I'm neither a pro decorator/instuctor, nor an insurance agent. I am however at the tail end of a long line of decorators both pro and non. My G-pa & Uncle were both pro during the era when men were 'Kings of Pastry'. My sis took decorating on in her youth, and tho she is very good at it she has kept it as a hobby.
My DD and I took classes this past summer, and neither of us are professional. I believe personally that the men in our family had a flair for decorating. They could whipp the icing around at super sonic speed and make it look like they spent hours decorating. We girls tend to take the starving artist approach. We assess the situation, plan, gather, prepare, decorate, admire, critique,... decorate some more, critique again, admire some, decorate...and on and on for hours.
Completeing a project in one day from baking to delivery is considered a rush job. To my G-pa and Uncle one cake in a day was a chance for them to put their feet up. Next year I will be gifting classes to my SIL. He is interested in making Wedding cakes and loves being creative in the kitchen.
As for my DH his passion is Surfing. The net and the waves. He is only near cake when it is on a plate and he hates the mess the kitchen is in when we are caking. No worries here that he will take over our hobby.

...So are men better decorators?...
I think it's more a matter of individual personality not gender. When you have a passion for an art form you create...

Happy Caking Everyone, birthday.gif
Gloria

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JoanneK Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 5:07pm
post #17 of 38

indydebi,

What I was trying to say is men have fewer accidents so if that it what one bases the survey on then yes they would be counted as better drivers. However, when they do have accidents they tend to be much worse. Therefore they are rated much higher then women most of the time.

I never was saying men are or are not better drivers. Just trying to clear up what the poster may have read.

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tracy702 Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 5:13pm
post #18 of 38

I have had 2 men in 9 years take my classes. And I have to say 1 was okay but I had one that was a hottie and he was better than any of the women in the course. He was taking it with his girlfriend. His dad was a chef and would give them pointers when they practiced. I thought it was really cool. When I went to Culinary school, out of 20 students all but 4 were men. I was only one of four women and three of us were majoring in pastry with 2 men. So we did out number them in Pastry courses.
My hubby is a lefty so I used him to practice teaching leftys. Also so I could learn to decorate left handed. But he only likes to put his two cents in and eat the left overs. He does like to play with the fondant and he will only if asked help me make buttercream. Other than that he claims only to be the finacial backer in my bakery and delivery driver. LOL!!!

P.S. I think many men are great at decorating because some of them come from long line of bakers. Remember back in the day Men were the professional bakers. I think it is cool. Women have come a long way. LOL!!!

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jelligirl Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 5:28pm
post #19 of 38

When you have a passion for an art form you create...

i like that icon_smile.gif

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chaptlps Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 5:31pm
post #20 of 38

Ok, here is the way I see it... not to be confused with any gospel truths here...
For the most part men, in general will strive to make a career out of whatever they endeavor to do whereas us women, will usually consider this just a hobby and not give ourselves credit to go professional with it.
It kinda goes back to the cave man days where men were the basic providers and us women made sure that whatever they brought home to cook didn't kill us.
So no one is better than the other it's just a matter of perspective as to what is considered a more important job. You can't have one without the other, in my opinion.
But I digress...
I have just found it to be that men are more driven to be monetarily justified in doing something as in providing, where us women are more into the joy of doing it, compensated or not.
Now, don't get me wrong, there are men out there who do things for the mere joy of creating something and vice versa there are women who will only do this if they are compensated.
But, in general, this is what I have found.
So, I guess what I am trying to say (don't know if I am doing good job of it or not) is that when a guy takes a decorating class it's more or less training for a career, and when we take one, it's more or less for our personal enrichment and enjoyment.
Please don't shoot me...........BANG!!!!

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twinsline7 Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 5:52pm
post #21 of 38

icon_surprised.gificon_lol.gif THIS THREAD IS CRACKING ME UP!!!! icon_lol.gificon_surprised.gif


I'm still stuck on the first page where it said men have more neurons! icon_confused.gificon_lol.gificon_twisted.gif JUST KIDDING!
ummmm....I think woman are catty....and some tails are gonna lift on this thread! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif


I think if men are better decorators...its because they do what they planned to do...then leave it alone.....we sit and pick it ALLLLLLLLLl apart again!! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif ...at least I do. Ive yet to do a cake completely without my husband walking by and saying LEAVE IT ALONE...he is the end of all my cakes really he gives that final it needs this then its done or no no no dont touch a thing!!! .....god please dont tell him Im crediting him.. icon_eek.gif ..my house isnt big enough for that head of his!

but really morningglories said it best at the end of her post! thumbs_up.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by morningglories


...So are men better decorators?...
I think it's more a matter of individual personality not gender. When you have a passion for an art form you create...


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misterc Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 6:15pm
post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zmama

My fiance - technical and scientific, not artistic. I'm the opposite. He is MUCH better at crumb coating, and learns things easily when I teach him the technical way, but not if I tell him "we need roses."
Men are just as good, but at different things. Our understanding of things is different - different physical connections made in the brain as we learn.

We find that working together is better than working alone because we get both sides of it. I have never had cake problems when he helped design the stability, and he has inspired me with his ideas.





Well said!!!!!! My husband doesn't decorate but he is very helpful while I am decorating and he has an artistic eye! Man bashing leads to no where. When we work together great things are accomplished!

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nglez09 Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 7:10pm
post #23 of 38

Very enlightening replies! Lol. I guess those of you who said it's a talent are right. I was just curious after having read that article about the neurons and hand-eye coordination stuff. icon_smile.gif

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sweetsbycheryl Posted 4 Dec 2006 , 7:22pm
post #24 of 38

I am not going to take your female comments personally, but as a female firefighter and EMT, I have cut many more men than women out of cars. Please don't stereotype the genders, either gender can and do decorate cakes very well, just as there are very good males and females in every profession. I am a proud volunteer FF/EMT who has had to fight that gender mentality for the 18 years I have served.

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playingwithsugar Posted 5 Jan 2007 , 5:06am
post #25 of 38

Nglez09 --

I would like to read this report that you mention in this thread. Would you please send me a link to it, or the title and author, so I can obtain a copy of it?

I totally disagree with it, and I am listing my reasons below.

Many years ago, the world of pastry was dominated by male chefs, it is true. But what they are not telling you in this report is that most of the innovative techniques and tools that dominate modern cake decorating today were invented/designed by women.

You have women like Betty Van Norstrand, who, along with her partner, were the some of the first women to enter in the World Pastry Olympics. Their technique for two-toned buttercream piping WITHOUT striping a bag made history. Betty Van Norstrand is the person who showed Sylvia Weinstock how to make sugarpaste flowers, but Sylvia wrote the book, so she got all the credit. "Dame Betty," as I have lovingly titled her (yes, I know her and have studied under her), taught such great male cake decorators as Ron Ben-Israel (under whom I have also studied). Ron always gives her due credit for what he has learned from her. She also taught Kim Morrison, who won the OSSAS in Tulsa two years in a row, 2003 and 2004. If you saw all the beautiful work in Betty's workshop, you would be speechless for months.
Then you have Rosemary Watson, introduced who mass-marketed the technique of silicone molding of objects and laces for cake decorating. She would buy pieces of lace worth hundreds of dollars per yard and cast molds from it.
Last, but not least, is "Dame Frances" Kuyper, who is the Queen of Airbrushing. She helped a company develop it's first airbrush and compressor for the retail market. Her sugar dolls are fabulous, they look like porcelain. If these women did not have equal or superior hand-to-eye coordination, they would never have achieved the level of celebrity within our craft that they have. They certainly were a lot more able to think outside the box than the male counterparts of their time. They are beloved to me, and many others here. They are our history.

Women were suppressed from knowledge of any kind during the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Even at the turn of the 20th century, many cultures and religions did not find any value in educating women, including education in the Arts. In Shakespeare's day, women were not allowed to be performers on stage, they were not allowed to play musical instruments, or learn to read or write. in 19th Century, and early 20th Century, women performers were perceived as whores. In some places in the world, this theory is still practiced. Businessmen and diplomats in some countries still will not deal with women.

Therefore, I would like very much for you to please send me the source for this report, in a title, library card catalog listing, website, anything, so I can read it and see what statistics they are using to prove their theory.

Thanks --

Theresa icon_smile.gif

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veejaytx Posted 5 Jan 2007 , 5:41am
post #26 of 38

I'd be interested in reading the whole article/report too, just to see how much has been, unread, misread, left out, and/or misinterpreted.

Janice

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adrisss Posted 5 Jan 2007 , 5:58am
post #27 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by nglez09

How many of you guys know guys that are cake decorators or who were in your class?

Did you find that they were better than most of the others in the class or not?

Do any of your husbands help out in the decorating of the cakes? Are they good?

I read somewhere that hand-eye coordination is found as a superior trait in males, which is why (in the grand scope and generalization of things) men are better drivers than females.

Is cake decorating directly related to hand-eye coordination?

Hopefully I'm not sounding like a sexist advocate of machismo, as I am not. Lol. Just asking out of curiosity. Don't hit me! icon_lol.gif





I have reed that that men often have more control over one side of the brain, and women towards the other something like that, maybe that has to do with men being great chefs just look at my one year old he is my handsome chef. Also my brother is great in the kitchen, I dont want to say that we girls dont know how to do it, If you set your mind to it you can be the best, if your boy or girl. But men will never be best in the homemaking area, and indulge pain as we do. Believe me three kids speaks for it self.

Arriba el mariachi!!!!!!

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Happy Bakingicon_smile.gif

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Janette Posted 5 Jan 2007 , 6:15am
post #28 of 38

There wasn't men in my class but a class my instructor had at another day/time there was a man who sold his first wedding cake. $4,000, yes that number is right $4,000. She brought in a picture and it was amazing. It looked like an enchanted forest with elves and fairies. A naturally talent.

My husband loves helping me with my cakes. And he is a major macho man. Sometimes he tells me when something doesn't look right and takes over. I have no problem with that.

My son loves to cook and not just simple recipes. He watches the Food Channel all the time. If I knew he would enjoy it so much I would have encouraged him to be a chef. He was helping me cook since he was 2 he's now 32.

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RisqueBusiness Posted 5 Jan 2007 , 6:27am
post #29 of 38

For some reason, men seem to be more sucessful in this field, selling at higher prices and becoming better know and quicker than the ladies!

I don't understand that, as women, I think we are more creative and can puzzle out the structure better.

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Tkeys Posted 5 Jan 2007 , 6:38am
post #30 of 38

Here, here, Theresa!

I think that there are numerous stereotypes out there of both men and women, and many of them are "true" because for many centuries men and women have been cast into certain roles. From birth, our society encourages certain strengths and skills in boys and others in girls, but males and females alike have the capacity (and the drive) to excel in every area, regardless of sex. Thus, it is no surprise that there are both women and men who are excellent decorators . . . some are better at the fine details, some are better at the structural aspects - each decorator brings his/her own special skills to the table.

I'm always amazed by the different skills I see when I look at everyone's cakes. I love to bake, and I enjoy decorating cakes, but I am not creative or artistic in the way that so many of you are. I am much more like misterc's fiance - technical and scientific. I plan my cakes, I follow designs, and I rarely conceive an idea from "scratch." I think it is impossible to say that women are typically one way about decorating, and men another. I always find that I do not fit the stereotype, and I assume there are other women and just as many men who do not fit the stereotype either.

As for the money making aspect of cake decorating, it may be that our society has made it such that more women are afraid to chase their dreams and turn their passions into profit-making businesses, but that is not about how we are wired or skills, and there are just as many women on this forum who are chasing their dreams! And while there are many of us on here who are hobbyists, there are also men on here who are hobbyists, too (and I know a few men who have taken classes just to enjoy decorating themselves, or to appreciate what their wives/girlfriends/daughters/boyfriends are doing). Indeed, my father and I took one class together many years ago, just for fun!

So, my parting thought as I step off my soapbox is to beware of stereotypes - each individual brings a unique set of skills to the table in cake decorating, and gender is not likely to be a determining factor in skill, although it may influence experiences, approaches to decorating, perspectives, and skill development.

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