As some of you may know, I have been trying to get my own baking business started. First, I was going to bake out of my familys restaurant. That ended up not working out, and Ive been looking into using another restaurants kitchen. For the past 3 days, Ive worked on my menu and pricing (it took about 11 or 12 hours - and its still not completely down) so that I can have it ready by next Sat for the Mom to Mom sale Im sponsoring as a vendor (I need my name reserved w/ the county ASAP in order for this to be on the up and up!).
So today, I found an ad online. A well known and old bakery in a trendy part of town had closed down and was up for sale. Well, they decided not to sell it, and now theyre looking for someone independent, creative and motivated. The ad goes on to state Looking for someone confident and creative with pastries, bread, cakes and cookies.
I sent them a response and told them I was interested. They replied saying this
We've received your interesting letter and would be delighted in showing you what we once were. Keep in mind that we are currently closed, not on account of lack of business, but rather on account of lack of staff to meet the needs of this business. We always have customers looking for our sweeties. I'll give you a call this weekend to show you this place. Your enthusiasm is encouraging.
Im totally confident in my baking abilities - not so confident in my decorating abilities. I just started learning that. Im excited and nervous, but Im looking at it like even if they dont hire me, I get to tour the old bakery, which will be so cool!
What do you guys think my chances are? I was going to bake something and bring it w/ me. Or maybe a little sampler. That would probably be better.
-Amber
It will depend on how hard you want to work. A bakery generally is 14-18 hours a day. You normally have to bake daily, and keep all product fresh an appetizing. This is NOT a part-time job.
Cake decorating is probably a lesser issue. You can use basics for cakes, and focus on the cake, rather than carving. A great cake with good icing and simple decorations can be appealing for most clients.
This is most likely not a one-person operation. Also, have you experience with pastry and/or breads common to bakeries?
Once you know what items they want to sell, you will have a better idea about workload and salary.
To answer that question you ave to invite mo over to taste some of your creations...cake decorating, and how your pastries look it just a small part of the chalenge
I'm not worried about how it tastes at all. 
I just need to learn more of the decorating stuff, which will come with practice and time. Just was what you guys think this guy will say about that.
I would ask a lot more questions about the business side of this deal. Do you get paid hourly, salary, commision? What were the yearly sales when this business was running full speed? How long has it been closed, because trust me, it doesn't take long to get people out of the habit of stopping by someplace! This may make things a little slow for a while until people realize that they are open again. Who has control over decisions like hiring/ firing? Advertising? If they are handling the business end of things, you may have different philosophies on how small things like that should be done. Will you have an employment contract? They may use you to get things back up and running and then show you the door. Who will be in charge of purchasing supplies? Who decides about what equipment you may need to replace or try new? Benefits? What will the other employees be paid? This will let you know what kind of help you will able to hire or will be hired for you, the lower the pay, the less trained professional help you will have. Also, how many employees does this place need to run and be profitable? You may have enough responsibilities with all of that, that you will have little time to do what you love! I would suggest writing all of your questions down and leave yourself space to write down the answers so you don't get excited and forget to ask or forget the details! Good Luck, sounds like a potentially great opportunity!
-Lori
Well, I went there and had a 2 hour chit chat w/ the owner. He basically doesn't know what he wants. He isn't sure if he's interested in doing cakes anymore at all. He definitely wants to start selling sandwiches and soups (not interested!) and he wants to do some cookies, brownies, non-decorated cakes by the slice. He doesn't want to do weddings anymore or anything decorated.
He thinks my ideas are too "romantic" and that it's just "cake" and I have to look at things more as pushing large quantities of product and spending as little money and time on them as possible in order to make a profit.
The place was definitely gross. It had been closed since January. There were large bags of mix of all types, left opened sitting out and spiderwebs and dead bugs in them. It looked as if he literally walked away while he was in the middle of baking something. The equipment barely worked. He attemped to show me how to work the oven, and couldn't!
The place is totally adorable, though. With a little imagination, it could be a money making machine. It is in a PRIME location of the trendiest part of town. It's also across the street from a community college campus.
He simply wants to be the owner, and that is it. He wants someone to figure out EVERYTHING. He wants someone to create the menu, do all the work, and I'm not sure of his plan on paying. He isn't sure if he wants to stay open 8-5, or if he should open later and stay open at night (that's what the other bakeries around here are doing now).
Nothing (or hardly anything) is made from scratch. It's all mixes. Pilsbury mix for brownies, etc. I could make this stuff myself at home - this is what he wants to sell under his bakery's name?
I was amazed, saddened and shocked. This place had been around for almost 100 years when he bought it and in my opinion, ruined it. His reason for closing is that he can't keep staff. His pastry chef walked out on him. He's had numerous brides and other customers chew him out for being unhappy with their orders. He told me that was not fun.
He took a look at the menu I created for my own business that I'm starting, and he told me my prices are too high. HOWEVER, I disagree. I think his prices are way too low considering how trendy cupcakes, wedding cakes, etc. are right now and he's in the rich/trendy part of town! He charges $15.00 for a sheet cake - decorated at that!
He had a price on his wedding cakes. A stacked, 8inch and 6 inch wedding cake is $40!!!! I realize that is a small cake, but no wedding cake should be $40! He has never sold fondant! I told him that's where the money is!!
Yes, I know I'm totally new at this, but this guy is a lost puppy. He never baked before owning this place. Just bought it and thought he'd make money easily!
He has taught himself the basics, but most of his former regulars left angry w/ him. He has to start all over and appeal to new clients.
He asked me my ideas. I said that he should first of all, charge more. Secondly, do decorated cakes. Thirdly, do fondant. Fourthly, do cupcakes. Then do the little pastries eveyone likes to buy. Sell coffee and perhaps sandwiches and soup. He shouldn't stop doing weddings.
He seems sad and in a way, took my excitement away from me. He told me that I won't make money selling my stuff, because no one will buy it because it's too much money. He said $20 for a pie is too much. I guess maybe I should charge $12-15. What do you guys think?
Anyway, I was absolutely thrilled to see the inside of a bakery kitchen and to get to look around this bakery which was so old and so historic and cool. It just made me realize more that I LOVE LOVE LOVE baking!!!!
I don't think you should do it.
I know, some people may think this would be a good experience and you'd basically get to start-up a new bakery, but there are some MAJOR issues here that would send me running.
1) He obviously lacks people skills and communication skills. In Culinary School it is RAMMED through our heads time and time again that these are ESSENTIAL in the business- if you're a brilliant chef but a complete jerk you're not going to do well at all. Even notoriously "mean" Chefs like Gordon Ramsay command respect because they aren't unfair nor unreasonable-- you can be strict and still be good with people and have good communication. This guy to me seems very stubborn and on top of that, ignorant to the business. The fact that he'd take you into a kitchen that dirty/unprepared shows how little regard he holds for the culinary arts.
2) He wants to be the owner, but he wants someone else to do the work. Basically, he wants you to tell him what to do, what the menu will be, and everything else that's required for him to get a business that actually becomes functional. All the while being expendable to him, so that once your paycheck becomes a price he doesn't want to pay, he can fire you, keep his nicely-running business fueled by ideas YOU implemented, and hire somebody else to do the upkeep and keep things going for cheaper. It's so plainly manipulative to me-- for that, hon, you're better off getting a business loan, getting your own business, and being your OWN manager and owner. You deserve to reap the hard benefits of your work- not some lazy sob who can't be bothered to learn about the industry he's gone into.
3) Frankly, do you want to risk ruining your reputation? Never work with someone who you think could jeopardize your good name. It's ALL you have and if it's ever ruined, it's ruined for good and does a lot of damage. You should never go into business with someone who doesn't operate up to the standards you personally hold or who's philosophy is majorly different then yours.
Yes, most food businesses work off of a production schedule- this is to be expected. Profit is number 1- but not because it's the means to an end but because profit enables you to keep making the art you're already making- it enables you to continue to do something that you love. Profit should not come at the expense of your integrity, quality of your product, quality of your art, of your customer's happiness, or at your own happiness. Profit should come WITH your integrity, with quality of your product and art, with both yours and your customer's happiness.
In short: Run away. Far, far away. You are an intelligent woman and an obviously determined one- if you can't find another bakery, consider starting your own. You deserve to reap the benefits of your own logic, creativity, intelligence and passion- don't let this guy get a free ride on that too.
That guy sounds like a loony. You definitely don't want to get mixed up with someone like him. He obviously has issues if he just closed up and left open bags of food around. Someone unpredictable like that is a nightmare in business. Trust me, I've trusted people like that and have been screwed. Either he will let you get things up and running smoothly, bust your butt getting it clean and running, then realizes that he's spending too much $$ on your salary and let you go (my experience) or he will steal your business plan and use them without you (dh's experience).
HTH!
If it's an option why not look into buying him out? You said it's a great place with a great location! Is that something you'd be up for?
I'm with Decorateme, you might want to look into just buying the business outright. If he doesn't want to sell the building, rent it with no further strings attached. If it already has all the hook-up for the kitchen, it would be a big money saver for you starting out! Just another thought! -Lori
He has more of a donut shop mentality I think. My good friends had a donut shop. The focus was on selling a LOT. Their stuff was good, but it had to be turned out fast and heavy. They also got out of the business because they couldn't keep help. They also were making money, just didn't want to work all those hours. I think bakeries are just like restaurants. You can turn out hundreds of so so burgers and sell them super cheap. Or you can sell really nice hamburgers and 6 or 7 dollars apiece.
I would probably steer away from this situation unless the guy would agree to a "hands off" approach. I would ask for as much as a two year contract as well as an option for you to extend that contract for say 5 years if you have created a certain level of profit for him. It works for him in that it doesn't stick him with a business that isn't making him money and works for you in that you don't do all the work to get a good business going and then get canned.
As someone dealing with getting a business going in an old neighborhood, on the one hand he probably does have some prime realestate. On the other, if a new buyer comes in and wants to change ANYTHING, most likely they would have to upgrade to ALL of the new codes. It's a catch 22. I suspect he's figured out a business in this neighborhood is worth a lot more than a property in this neighborhood. Heck, it may be that he can't sell the place unless he renovates everything to current code. So don't be suckered, make sure you both make good money on this deal.
We all agree that the current owner is an idiot. Nothing more, nothing less. Part of being in business means adapting to the current trends while maintaining your business reputation even through ownership changes. People who haven't been in the food industry prior at some point in their life usually don't have much business getting into it on that type of scale or type of business to start for this precise reason. The staffing issue probably has more to do with personality than it does anything with the bakery itself. There are still willing people out there who want to work, it's just a matter of putting the right carrot out whether that's personality, pay, and/or possibly speaking a foreign language. The question to be asking is why did his staff leave. Did he overpromise and underdeliver, did he expect his Pastry Chef to work on Christmas or his relative's funeral, etc.
The neighborhood donut shops are going away at a fast pace because people prefer the one-stop shopping which is what makes a bakery who changes focus to being more of the specialty type bakery of products that they can't get at the big box store all the more important while still offering the traditional assortment of donuts a prized commodity. They can't get a bailey's filled cake over at the other guy, but you can do it. People ultimately come back to the local guy when the local guy is putting out a superior product. The people getting their donuts at Sam's and Walmart aren't the people to focus on, the people to focus on getting back there are the guys that all show up between 7:15 and 8:30 for their morning coffee and donut and will sit, read the paper, and find out what's going on around town then grab a loaf of fresh homemade bread for his lunches this week. Once you have them hooked back, life is good because they're the ones connected with the community.
The other thing is like others have already mentioned, you're best to just buy the business outright and tell him so. While I agree on the price of pie issue because it's sort of the once you hit the $20 mark on traditional flavors you're going to be limiting out your loyal customer base in a hurry and you need the product turnover. OTOH, you're absolutely right on most of the other things you mentioned. I also would bring in the reality of whether or not the kitchen was up to code. We had a bakery here that instead of raising their prices, they just shrunk the size of the donuts. Sneaky, devious, and underhanded, but it works! They have a larger product turnaround 2 smaller donuts (everyone thinks "oh, they're small, I'll just get two") for $.85 each or one big one at $1.25+... Hmmm...
The other thought is that you're wanting to focus on the specialty line and it's probably not financially "worth it" to be a 6 to 6 business because until that staffing followed by the training issue is taken care of you really don't want to be working those kinds of hours (which translates into a 3a-7p workday)..
Unless he's offering to sell it to you, hard as it is, probably not the way to go.
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