We get it all the time. The brides who are on a budget. Had one call just minutes ago. She had called me for info a few days ago and was calling back with a question: she has a tight budget and wants a "display" cake with sheet cakes ... how much cheaper would that be? (By the way, this is a drop-n-run cake).

I said:

"Now that's an example of how the wedding websites are misleading you. You're getting the same amount of cake, no matter what pan I bake it in. Sheet cakes are not that much 'less' work to justify a price decrease. I've been making cakes for 25 years and I'm pretty good and pretty quick. It's not a time saver for me to do sheet cakes. It's just as much cake, icing and time no matter which ones I do.....sheet or tier."

"If you go to a bakery that does mass production and they are churning out hundreds of sheet cakes a day to store in their freezer, then maybe they can do it cheaper. But I don't have cakes stacked up in the freezer. Mine are made to order, customized to your specifications, and they are made days .....not weeks or months ... before your wedding."

I then explained my 60% Rule to her as a possibility to help reduce her headcount and ergo her costs.

After asking for a discount and after hearing my speech ..... she asked to make a sampling appointment.

My assumption is that if the price was really out of her range, she wouldn't bother making the appointment.

BTW, she asked if she could come over TODAY! I said, "No, remember I said I don't have cakes sitting around ... each one is made to order."

So anyway .... just thought I'd share a minor victory in the "I want a bargain basement price for a custom made cake" war! Woooo-Hoooo!

"That's one small step for indydebi, one giant leap for all cake professionals"

Way to go!!!

indydebi, You have such a great way to answer everything!! If you don't mind, I'm going to print your response out, adjust it for my business, and hang it by the phone.

Congratulations on your victory!
Kathi

Okay, so what is the 60% rule?

darkchocolate

I was thinking the same thing Kathik as I was reading.

Debi - you do have a way with words... Keep it professional and "don't mess with me, honey, I know what I'm doing and what you're trying to do" without being rude. Awesome!

60% Rule...

25 years of being at weddings, and being the kind of person who loves data (I was the nerdy kid who took the big algebra equation and reduced it to "x=3" for FUN!), my observations came up with these "facts":

Take your total invite list times 60% and that will give you a truer estimate of how many guests will actually show up.

200 invited x 60% = 125 actually show.
300 invited x 60% = 180-200 actually show.

3 Exceptions: If bride and/or groom are.......

1) Active military (especially today)
2) Very involved in their church
3) African-American

If any one of these apply, use 70%. If any two of these apply, use 75%.

I have RARELY been surprised when using this formula. Many brides, who have given their final headcount, have told me they should have just used Debi's 60% Rule because that's how the numbers ended up!

Ditto.......what is the 60% rule?

Ahh...didn't even know about this rule. When I got married years ago, most of the pple invited showed up, but I come from a small town and a big family. About 90% of the invited showed up.

Debi's 60% rule is that only 60% of guests will show up (so you don't need to order cake for everyone on the guest list).

Debi, another great help thread.

the 60% rule is a great thing to know. thanks!

Thanks indydebi
I'm saving this to use later. You are ingenious.
I love all your responses.

OMG Debi! That is all I keep getting, the I'm on a budget spiel. I'm thinking to myself, so am I, meaning I'm not going to come out of my pocket to make your wedding cake! And the sad thing is that I'm pretty new so I would almost do anything for exposure, if they were at least reasonable! In my area, my prices are very low actually, but I just don't see how I could put myself up there with the others in my area since I just really started. I don't k now, I'm sick of hearing it though!

The 60% rule wouldnt work for my cake lovin' family. Only 60% might show up for the wedding, but everyone wants a piece of cake to eat there and a piece (or two) to take home.

good for u debi! i HATE having to deal with the bargain shoppers ...they make u feel like u're ripping them off or something....i'm not as good with words or quick on my feet and really get perturbed when i get those requests over the phone and don't have the confidence or quickness to put it just like u did! i too will b printing out your response to keep handy.....and never heard of the 60% rule......i knew that only a percentage of the invited guests would show, but i like how u have it all nailed down to a simple formula!

i agree that this is a great thread, indydebi! you ARE such a professional. i'm going to have to remember the 60% rule when the times comes for me to get into the business!

This is so true and great to keep in mind! I had mounds and mounds of my wedding cake left over.

However, I should have used the 120% rule on the much smaller red velvet groom's cake...haha

Debi,

Another great idea! Thanks.

"fast food" concept and car repairs!! Two great examples I will be adding to my lectures..... uh .... "discussions" with brides!

Debi....Is your 60% rule to the number of invitations sent out with this number used in the initial planning phase of the order or to the number people who respond yes to a RSVP? I would hate to think that 40% of the people who respond to a RSVP simply don't show up!

Thank you again Indydebi!

I'm much more inclined to try to work with someone that has done their research and tells me their budget is $x.xx and doesn't expect anything elaborate than I am with someone who tells me they are on a budget, wants elaborate, and wants me to make it almost free, if not free.

And don't get me started on people who asked me to do a cake "for my church". Don't get me wrong, I do sometimes give discount for churches but mostly only for MY church. Even though I'm a good Southern girl, just because it is for a church doesn't obligate me to do the cake for cost or for free.

This is kind of like my refrigerator purchase last week. The freezer on mine went out. I went online, check the bank balances, and then checked prices online. Now, I would have loved to have had one with the freezer on the bottom, and the water and ice in the door. However, my budget was for a top mount and I was thrilled that I was able to find one with an ice maker within the budget. And I am perfectly happy with the one I have. I didn't expect the salesman to heavily discount/give it to my for free just because "I'm on a budget".

Indy debi you made my day!! I have been decorating for about 25 years also. Just now to the point of trying to start my own business. Anyway.... I have had two brides try to down price me according to WalMart and Giant Eagle. I too explained to them about the quality of the cake and the actual concern for her as a person and not just a number. (Thanks to a suggestion by Earlene) Being the softy I am and the area where we live, the did manage to talk me down a little. I hope I can get the pricing thing set. Thanks so much for everyone help on this site. You are all so wonderful!! Did you see Ace of Cakes last night?? The cake for Jay Leno was awesome. I mant to marry that guy!!! Not jay Leno

Indy debi you made my day!! I have been decorating for about 25 years also. Just now to the point of trying to start my own business. Anyway.... I have had two brides try to down price me according to WalMart and Giant Eagle. I too explained to them about the quality of the cake and the actual concern for her as a person and not just a number. (Thanks to a suggestion by Earlene) Being the softy I am and the area where we live, the did manage to talk me down a little. I hope I can get the pricing thing set. Thanks so much for everyone help on this site. You are all so wonderful!! Did you see Ace of Cakes last night?? The cake for Jay Leno was awesome. I mant to marry that guy!!! Not jay Leno

Funny, Indy. I just talked to a bride for a December wedding who invited 300 and thinks almost all of them are coming. In her defence, she is from a large close knit family and very active in church. I told her about your 60% rule and she was so happy to hear that (looks like I'll need to tell her 70% instead) Her fiance and her are paying for almost all of it and are trying to cut costs so this little tid-bit just made her day.
You are so right on this 60%---70% rule. EVERY wedding I've ever been too, and I've been to a lot of them, had this happen.

Funny, Indy. I just talked to a bride for a December wedding who invited 300 and thinks almost all of them are coming. In her defence, she is from a large close knit family and very active in church. I told her about your 60% rule and she was so happy to hear that (looks like I'll need to tell her 70% instead) Her fiance and her are paying for almost all of it and are trying to cut costs so this little tid-bit just made her day.
You are so right on this 60%---70% rule. EVERY wedding I've ever been too, and I've been to a lot of them, had this happen.

I like this 60% rule. I have trusted a 50% rule in the past when planning my kids birthdays at Jeepers, Chuck E. Cheese and such. I normally invite the entire class so no one feels left out. This is outside of my budget, but it all works out because 45-50% actually come.

The 60% rule scares me. We invited 115 and 107 showed up. I would have been short on food!

Hubby is no longer active military right, we aren't that active in church, though came from families who were, and we aren't African American....but hubby is Italian...need I say more? LOL! Not everyone showed up at the church, but they were all there for the reception. The exceptions were some of my family that didn't make it because of a last minute sick family member across country (that ended up passing away, thank goodness they went to be with him). So we only had 2 people not show up that said they would (besides the sick family situation already mentioned).

I guess it all depends on what is average in your neck of the woods, whether the 60% rule would apply. I would be awfully embarrassed if I said I was coming to someone's wedding and then didn't show up. We paid close to $70 per person. I would have been fuming mad had only 60% showed up!!!!

Debi, you are just full of wisdom, aren't you? And you too Doug - your ideas are great. I love the way you tactfully said what you did- I'll have to remember this. You made your point, without being rude, and you're going to end up getting the business, without having to sell yourself short. That's great! I say kudos to you, and thanks for sharing - I appreciate it!

At my office (I'm still doing cake on the side), we have a place to post services on our intranet. Well, of course I have my cakes posted, etc, and got an inquiry from a co-worker wanting to know prices, etc. She said her brother and fiance were looking at a cake from Wal-Mart - I told her my prices, and she really layed in on the guilt trip about my price. I did explain the difference between my costs vs. theirs, but I didn't get the business. At this point, as much as I'd love the exposure and the business, it's not worth me almost paying someone to buy it from me - it's not worth the aggravation either.

Michelle, that is an excellent example! I think I will add Italian to my list of exceptions because you are so correct .... Italians tend to be very family supportive.

I also tell brides that the one thing I cannot factor in is how their family normally responds to a family wedding. Is it THE social event of the year .... is it looked upon as the same as a family reunion?

Lots of other things factor in but I can't put a number to it..... like the oldest child tends to have a higher show rate than the younger siblings. Members of police and fire depts I classify as military ("men/women in uniform").

In general, if I had to pick the accuracy between 60% Rule and RSVP's ..... I'll go with the 60% Rule every time.