I am just FLOORED by what I learned this weekend. Hurt, pissed, big ole momma bear going on!
My baby just turned 5, and is in 4K. She has been getting moodier and having more attitude, and we thought it was from hanging out with the other kids. This weekend, we find out it's because there is a group of bullies - IN 4K! Two boys and a girl, the girl she always told us was her friend, and the teacher said it was always Zoey, her "very best friend", and this other girl.
Both of the real friends are recently 5, as are most of the kids in their class. So, why in the hell is this being allowed? No one knew! The girls would both cover up for the other one being mean, because she was threatening them. The boys would get in trouble, but this girl never got caught. For 3 months this has been going on!
So, besides the obvious, what's simply wrong? The school nurse lied and said they were "never" in there. I had been notified ONCE about my dd, and there were at least 5 notes on her visits to the nurse. The other girl's paper had no notes, but she's the one who showed us where the nurse's office was. If we had been given notes that they had been hurt, we would have seen a pattern.
Four and five year olds should NOT have to deal with bullies! These two have been pushed down, pulled down, one had a Barbie shoved down her throat, and the other was sexually assaulted at recess. Neither wanted to tell, not even each other, because the girl who did it was threatening them. Both insisted this girl "had to" be invited to their birthday parties, because she said she would ruin the parties if she wasn't invited. Luckily, she isn't allowed to go anywhere ("my mom won't let me leave the house.").
PLEASE, never think bullying doesn't happen at a young age. We are in a very small village, 9 kids to a teacher in her class plus there are aids. She has been taught since she was a baby about talking to us, how to defend herself, everything we could teach her. Remember that an adult who is threatened and controlled has a hard time breaking it, and a small child has little or no chance. We noticed the signs, but not until things got worse. Still, both girls were scared to talk. Please, be involved. It's not enough, but it's a start.
I hope that nurse gets fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is just aweful that this is going on! Well, I hope your daughter can get past this, with your love I'm sure she will
Thank you. We expect the nurse to get a reprimand. Now that the teachers and assistant principal are aware of the situation, they will be watching much more closely. Since everyone thought, and the girls said, that this other girl was their friend, no one knew what was really going on.
The other mother and I are already known well at the school, but we will be seen at times during the school day also. Our school allows parents to drop in during the day unannounced.
I would most definately be dropping in more frequently and not always the same time of the day. Has the school told you what their policy is for bullying? They should have a policy. If they don't, I would insist that they come up with one to prevent this in the future. If they don't get these kids under control now, it will only get worse the older they get and you will still be dealing with it in elementary school. A lot of preschools will have them "kicked out" for a day or two at first and if they don't get it under control with that, they they remove them from the school permantly.
I can feel your pain
My youngest son has OCD and was bullied the whole time that he was in school. I, like you, did not know that this was going on until one night my mother and sister were in the store and one of his classmates told them how the children were treating him...he was in kindergarten at the time.
I had a long talk with him that night and got the whole story out of him...I couldn't stop crying the whole time he was telling me . He was even taking his Ninja Turtles men and toys to school to give to them to be his friend. The children wouldn't even let him have a seat on the bus. They had him so terrified, that he didn't even tell his psychiatrist or counselor.
Boy, the next day couldn't come fast enough for me so that I could go to school to check into this. Of course, his teacher stated that she was not aware that this was going on; I could tell from her actions that she was lying as was the principal and bus driver...they just didn't care.
From kindergarten up to the sixth grade, I took him to and from school. Unfortunately, each year he had the same children in his class.
When he was in the fifth grade, he finally got some peace because I knew his teacher personally and she promised me that she would not allow them to continue the abuse; she kept her promise.
In the sixth grade, his teacher made him take his shoes off and give them to her just so that he would return a pencil to her that he had to borrow... he walked around all morning without shoes and received alot of teasing from the students. I was at school the next day and almost had a physical fight with her, she had the nerve to talk smart about it...my ex-husband pulled me back...I should have socked him for doing that.
The seventh grade, I home schooled him. Eight grade, his counselor and doctor felt that he should go back to school for the social learning...his teacher was really nice like his fifth grade one and he had minimum problems...thank goodness. Ninth grade was a nightmare and the last grade that he did in public school...home schooling from then on.
He went through the locker head bashings, torn clothing, numerous replacement of eyeglasses, teasing, etc. He is twenty-one now and still talk about all the things he went through in school
I was the type of mother that would make surprise visits at school and can't believe how well it was covered up...thank goodness for that little boy that was his only friend for telling.
I can't stress this enough, please parents, even if you are not entirely sure that your child is being bullied, look into the matter...better safe than sorry.
This is why I take my moderating job seriously here at CC because I can not stand to see people being intentionally cruel and mean to others.
I am sorry that this is so long...please forgive me
That is awful that the schools never did anything about it. I know the school my daughters go to have no tolerance. I guess if the children don't say anything nothing gets done about it. Why are kids so mean these days?
My nephew just got suspended for a day because he treatened a child. I told my mom (who is raising him) that it didn't sound like him and that she needed to look into it further (my nephew is a very quiet kid and keeps to himself). She talked to him about it and come to find out this kid has been getting in his face for a while now. They had a dance recently and this kid was calling him names and telling him he was going to beat the **** out of him. My nephew didn't say a word. Then finally he got in his face again and he told him if he didn't get out he would "kill" him. My parents told him that he should have never said that word to him and he said he didn't mean it just that he couldn't take the kid in his face any more. My mom was furious that my nephew got suspended - but he did make a threat and it shouldn't be taken lightly in this day. I told her to ask what happen to the other boy. Come to find out, he has been bullying others also and he was suspended 3 days and sent to an alternative school. At least the bully didn't get away this time!
Bullying has gotten way worse than losing your lunch/milk money nowadays.
We parents need to stand up to the school systems that just stand there and let the bullying continue. If your principal won't listen to you, talk to the superintendant, bring it up at a PTO meeting, bring it up at the school board meeting......and if that doesn't work then talk to the newspapers, news investigators, anyone that will listen.
My son's school started a program that teaches things like respect, manners, etc. I'm glad to see that, it's needed, if anything to re-inforce the lessons that should be taught at home.
I agree with you mouse, I would go straight to the school board and the superintendent.
Geez, this is a sad world we are living in.
Ya can't even bring your kids to school anymore! Worrying about how safe your kids really are, makes ya wanna keep them at home!
Stephanie, I feel sooooo bad for your son!! That is terrible, I know it would hurt so bad knowing that your precious baby was getting picked on or hurt. My kids are still little but when the time comes when they have to deal with a bully...I don't know how I would handle it!
I was in a constant battle with the teachers and the principals.
The teachers are just as bad as the bullies. His fourth grade teacher would make comments to the students everyday when it was time for him to go to the nurse to take his medicine. She would say something on the smart-side like, "P.J. is special, it's time for him to go and take his medicine" and the children would laugh and tease him about being special.
He was not the type to fend for himself...he believed that everyone should just get a long together. I am happy to say, he stands up for himself now.
My sister, who was a teacher (retired now) was a big help to me. She would give me advise on how to handle situations and out-smart them.
The "Character Counts" and other programs are not enough.
My biggest fear, is what is going on in these kids' homes? Where do they learn this in the first place?
As for teachers who act like that... there's one who is getting boycotted next year. There is no parent so far in the 4K class who will let their child be in her (kindergarten) class. She is pretty quiet when talking to parents, but another mother witnessed her abuse of a child in a deserted hallway. It was reported to the principal, but the principal refused to do anything, said that maybe it was a "problem student." In WI, we are not required to send the kids to school till 6 years old, but they start at 4. If dd is put in that class, she WILL be moved to the other class or I will have 6 months to get homeschooling set up.
My 4 year old son has also been bullied this year. This other boy, Cole, has some issues, and no one is really sure what they are yet. He has scratched my son on the cheek, and he has a scar from it. He scratched him on the face and ear, and brought blood about5 weeks ago. We finally told our son "If Cole picks on you again, pop him in the nose as hard as you can, and run to your teacher". We told the teachers this, so they know what will happen the next time Cole bothers him. We were also told that our son will be told that we are supposed to be nice to our friends, but that's as far as his discipline will go. The other boy has to have a teacher or aide with him at all times, because he is so mean. Our son can't wait for Cole to pick on him again. He'll say "I can't wait to pop Cole in the nose so he'll cry". It's awful that you have to tell children this young to pop someone, but all of the other methods weren't working at all. He knows that Cole is the only person he's allowed to hit, and only if he picks on him first. Good luck! You aren't alone in this!
I was bullied as a teen, and it hurt me so bad, still have problems with my self-esteem. I was a teen, it was hard, I can't imagine having to suffer this at 5! That would've been hell!!!
I hope everything will be taken care of. poor thing!
I am so fed up with the school system!! They are no help, they just want more money. I am having trouble with one of my DD classes. I don't know what goes on at these kids homes but her class can not get anyone to sub for it because the class is so bad, and of course the attitude is rubbing off on my child and I'm not going to tolerate it. Last week, a parent got upset with the teacher for getting after one of the students and came in the classroom in the morning and cussed the teacher out, slapped her and spit in her face. WHAT!! I am so upset about that and it should have never happened in front of the students. What kind of example does that set!!! I HAVE HAD IT!! I want to put mine in private school, but I can't for $20,000 a year. I can see why people home school.
When I was in grade school umpteen years ago, a girl a grade above me started to pick on me because I was shy and she knew that I was an easy mark. Well, one day while eating lunch at my grandmother's house, I was complaining about this girl. My uncle, who was a policeman, happened to stop by on his lunch break. He asked me what was going on, and told me not to worry. The next day, he appears at my school during recess and asks me which girl it was. I point her out to him and he casually walks over to her and says, "That girl over there told me that you've been picking on her and saying mean things to her. I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop doing it, because I really don't want to have to tell the principal and get you in trouble. So could you please stop it?" Being a kid herself, having a policeman walk over to her, in front of all her friends, must have scared the bully right out of her because she never even made eye contact with me again after that, and avoided me like the plague.
Unfortunately bullying seems to be increasing in schools (and even at the workplace). Even though my 8 yr. olds school has a no bullying policy, there are still some kids that bully others. One of the reasons I volunteer and am very involved at his school (K-5), is so that the kids know who I am, and which kid is mine, and they know that I wouldn't tolerate any bullying of my kid or any other kid. I guess I'm not poltically correct, because when I see a kid acting up, I have no qualms about reprimanding them in a nice way. (My big mouth will probably get me in trouble one of these days with a parent who thinks that their little darling can do no wrong, so why am I giving their precious a hard time?)
Wow- first off, if I was a teacher and a parent slapped me like that I would fight back and also press charges against that women.
I have a feeling my son's 5k teacher was not a nice women to him either but I couldn't get my son to talk to me about it. Also I wasn't sure if it was my MIL overreacting or not. But this teacher is retiring after this year, thank goodness.
It's so sad when the teachers are the bullies, their job is to provide an environment to learn in, how are you doing that when you pick on students?
This type of behavior starts so young and when they are acting this way at a very young age you can blame nobody but there parents I used to teach pre-school and i had this little girl in my class she was 2 but very big for her age and she was so mean to the other kids she would pinch and hit and throw things and this was not a toddler acting out this was a child being mean she would pull kids hair so hard she would yank it out by chunks every night we would talk with her parents and they thought it was cute they would laugh and say oh did you pull someones hair and they thought it was the funniest thing in the world we would save baggies of hair to show her mom and she never cared ofcourse this was also a little girl who came filthy everyday and mom never brought her a lunch or diaper's it got to the point where we had to ask her not to come anymore I sure hope that girl is ok and her mom wised up a bit. now as far as bullyes in school that is such a hard judgement call my son thankgoodness is overall pretty popular and doesnt have a lot of problems but there is this older boy on the bus that like to taunt him and ofcourse i want to march over to the boys parents and tell them like it is but now days parents of bullys ethier dont care or there in denial the best advice i can give my son is to not let the bully get a rise out of him until he does somethign phsyical and then there will be hell to pay ofcourse if my son hit him back he would be the one suspened the system is so backwards now days.
My daughter encountered her first bully in first grade. It was the girl who was her best friend in Kindergarten!
This bully spreads lies, scratches hate and death threats on the bathroom walls, and tries to recruit other kids to gang up on certain children.
It's so sad to have to learn how to deal with this starting at six years old. We bought her this book, and read to her, editing out the "boyfriend" parts. She's almost nine now and is reading it for herself.
You sound like a involved, no-bull type of person. I hope you get satisfaction.
That looks like a good book! Did you see the one packaged with it, Girl Wars?
I'm so glad I found this topic! When my son was born my DH vowed to put him in Karate when he turned 4 (minimun age). From time to time I drive by kid walking home from school and I see the groups and then I see the one kid that is always all alone and I get a knot in my tummy because I start to wonder if that's going to be my son when he's in school. I'm also fearful because my son was born a little early and he is small by comparision to toddlers his age and me being a SAHM(for now) and him not being around other children now. Sometimes I tend to baby him and I don't want him to be a "softy" or "mama's boy".
I agree with you Momof4luvscakes I wish I could afford to send my son to private school but we can't afford it either. But I wonder if private school is any better?
And how do you deal with teachers that won't put a stop to this? I would be fuming if I found out my child was being bullied and the teacher knew and just didn't want to do anything. And bully teachers , they were probably child bullies themselves.
A little off topic, but just my 2 cents on private schools...we put DD in private school in kindergarten, struggled to make the tuition payments and encountered, not bullying, but a lot of snobbery because so many of the families were better off financially than we were. Never met such a bunch of 5 y-o snobs before! It was so hard for her to make friends, and even when she did, the parents were snotty to us. (this is NOT to say that all private school families are snobs, just our experience) She's back in public schools now, and thankfully hasn't had any problems. There was an incident with some girls picking on her on the bus, but one of the older boys stood up for her and they stopped.
I think everyone has gotten bullied once in a while.. to a certain extent we all need to learn how to deal with people who behave poorly towards us.
There is a line, however, that is crossed. I think that line is actually a lot hazier now days, like someone mentioned previously-- you can get attacked by another student in school and BOTH will be suspended. I speak from experience, heh. One girl hated me and my best friend in High school, I never really knew why but I thought nothing of it. I was in 10th grade, she was in 9th, she came up behind me and grabbed a handful of my hair.
Well that was the extent of the fight because I threw her onto the ground and pinned her with my foot to her throat and just was like "WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM?!" I didn't really hurt her besides bruises and scaring her, but I had three brothers growing up and I knew how to fight and scrap with the rest of em, heh. Needless to say it didn't matter that she was attacking me, I got suspended as well for three days. My dad told the Principal who wanted to talk about "My behavior" Well, I'll consider this a paid vacation for my daughter, we're going out to dinner! And he did take me out to dinner! He always taught me to fight back when attacked, the schools have sort of unreal expectations on that.
My bullying problems came because of my development.. I got sexually harassed a lot by boys, and girls would spread nasty rumors about me (I had a D-cup in 6th grade and weighed about 115 pounds), including that I had breast implants! I filed complaint after complaint with the school and it got to the point that I didn't want to go. My parents finally threatened to sue when we saw action and the teachers were far more strict about teasing and bullying. It was pretty terrible. Luckily, by the time I was in High School a lot of the people who were terrible to me had apologized about their behaviour. I never became best friends with any of them but I definitely appreciated the gesture, even though I had learned to forgive them long before.
Anyway, just keep an eye on it and if it gets back, don't be afraid to threaten big. Schools are REQUIRED to keep their atmospheres harassment free by law, and they know if a harassment/bullying suit ever went to court, they would lose big time. Don't back down and don't listen to "just a little phase" explanations or them telling you your child is too sensitive. Your child deserves respect like every other human being and sometimes if it gets tough, you're the only one who can really be there for them!
When I was in seventh grade I lived in Florida for a few months. While I was there I was bullied so much that I would vomit before school everyday, then come home and cry every night. My mom went to the dean and she talked to these kids, but it got worse. Nothing else was done. Then my parents moved us away and things didn't really get better for me. I started therapy this past summer and was diagnosed with Agoraphobia from this time in Florida. Kids can do more damage than you think. I have no issues pulling my kids from public schools if I even have the hint they are being bullied.
Oh, I want to appologize now for this soon to be long note. Where do I start? My son was bullied in 1st Grade. It got so bad that he would throw up just before walking out the door. We went to the school to find out what was going on and they told us we were making too much of it and that we were being to protective of him. They also said that we should let him ride the bus instead of bringing him to school. They did not want parents interferring in their school. When Christmas came he did not want to go back to school after the holidays. Then when it was Valentine's, he would not pick out a special Valentine's card for his teacher. He said that the one that came with the class box set was good enough for her. This was a lightbulb moment for us. My son was very shy and very smart. It turns out that his teacher felt threatened by him. REALLY. She hated boys and would punish them for every little infraction that she could. The class was studying dinosaurs and my son's entire life was about dinosaurs from the age of 2 to 7. He would let her know that she was giving the class the wrong information on the dinosaurs. He would only tell her during recess so that no one would hear him. This is how she felt threatened. She would threaten him with paddling or punish work any chance she would get. What made her so mad was that he would never talk to anyone in class or act up. He always said Yes Mam and No Mam. The entire grade level was tested to see where their learning grade was. She never told us anything about his scores. Another teacher walked up to us and congratulated us on our son. We did not know what she meant and she told us he had the highest scores in the school. Imagine that his teacher not bragging on having the smartest student in the grade. Oh, she did not teach like the other teachers, she taught the kids how to take these test all year. They in turn would have no less than 3 hours of homework every night. After this last episode, we went to the principal and told him that there was only one week left of school and we wanted him to be pulled out of her class immediately. He contacted her and she said that she was still testing the class and he had to stay. I told the principal what she could do with her test and that if he did not pull my son from her class, that we had enough information on her and the school to file suit against them. My son never had to look at her again. Oh, the next year she quit because she was expecting her first baby. It was twins and they were boys.
When he was in 5th grade he came home and told us that a girl had asked him if he wanted to buy a bag of some white stuff. After talking to him we realized that she was trying to sell him drugs. We called the drug task force and the next day the drug dog showed up at school and was able to catch the girl and another boy packaging bags that looked like drugs to scout out their territory. She of course had threatened him about telling anybody. The funniest thing about this episode is that it was the day after Halloween and all the kids in the school thought that the dog was there to sniff out candy. The teachers said that they had never heard the toilets flush so many times as that morning.
Now as for private schools vs. public schools. I work in a public High School and my sister works in a Private School. We do have bullies and guess where they go when they get expelled from public schools. You got it, Private Schools. The kids tell me that it is the private school kids that can afford all the alcohol and drugs for the parties every weekend. They always know which party to go to and it is always in the elite neighborhoods. Our son always went to a public school and he was in honors classes every year and graduated with a 4.0. I am not trying to brag, but my sister's kids went to a private school and in order for them to get in an honors class they were bused to the public school for the classes.
Whatever you decide to do about your child, document every conversation with your child, teacher, principal, classmates, school board member, etc. You then notify the principal that if they did not act on the problem immediately without any repercussion against your child that you would send a written statement to the school board, and the media about what is taking place at this school. They never want the media involved. We have gone over the principal and straight to the school board because of a problem in High School and had policies changed.
Contacting the child's parents rarely ever is effective, but we did notify one parent that if they did not take some type of action with their child that we gave our child permission to take whatever action was necessary to subdue their child. We also let the principal know what we were informing our child to do. They then had the child transferred to another school.
I agree, private schools have a whole 'nother set of problems.
She goes to school on Tues and Fri, so two days down since we talked to the school. Got a note from the teacher Tuesday, and things were pretty calm; no complaints from dd. Friday dd said the girl tried to grab her, and she fought her off and told the teacher, who took care of it. She is so proud of herself, and we are too! No trouble for fighting back (luckily), and she learned quite a few lessons from the whole situation.
Good to hear, keep us updated!
I agree, private schools have a whole 'nother set of problems.
Awww...let's please not turn this around, okay?
I went to private school and taught in private school and was thrilled with the quality of education I received and was proud of the job I did.
Let's face it...no school system is perfect by any means.
I feel for you Zmama...we moved this summer and our boys started a new school. My 9 year old finally told me in November that he was being bullied and made fun of by one particular student since the first week of school. I stopped by after school one day to talk to the teacher. She didn't know this was going on with our son.
Evidently, this has been an issue with this particular "bully" since kindergarten. I told the teacher that we would not put up with it. We would call a meeting with the principal, her, and the child's parents if our son came home any more and told us it was still going on.
The next time it happened, the child was called out in the hall for a long time and our son says it hasn't happened since. I don't know what the teacher said to the child, but it worked! Well, so far anyway...
Hang in there and don't back down!!!
I certainly didn't mean to bad talk private schools in general, I guess my point was, as mocakes stated, all school systems have problems and there are no easy solutions. I have nothing but praise for the staff at her former school and the quality of education was outstanding.
I'm glad things are improving, Zmama. Sounds like your daughter is on her way to being a confident, strong girl who will stand up for herself!
My oldest does not start school until this fall but I had to share the following story:
My DH works with a gemtleman whose son was contsantly being bullied by another boy at school (htis kid was also bulling others). They tried going through the principal and teachers. Promises, promises but nothing changed. Finally, my DH's co-worker went to the other boys house and matter of factly informed the father that if his son was bullied again, he was going to become that mans bully. Amazingly enough all the bulling stopped.
I'm so sorry for all you who have had to deal with bulling, I dont even want to imagine how hard that must be