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Renting A Church Kitchen, Advice Needed - Page 4

post #46 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelyCakes4Us View Post

As for the cheap marketing thing, that's not true at all, have you read the book (starting a business with 100.00) clearly you can start as cheap as possible and once income generates I could participate in bridal shows, media, more professional looking flyers etc.
If you are referring to "The $100 Startup", I have not read that book. My information comes from the MBA I completed in 2010 and my own experience starting a business. I just read the reviews on Amazon and to be honest it looks like populist hokum packaged for maximum mainstream appeal. It's great that the author identified 1,500 people who started successful businesses with minimal budgets, but he probably doesn't mention that for every one of them there are 99 others who failed because they did not have sufficient planning or investment.

You can certainly be successful without spending a lot on marketing (the best marketing is word of mouth, which is free), but it requires very strong competitive advantages with clearly defined markets. And you have to be lucky.
post #47 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by -K8memphis View Post

the church did that to discourage you from proceeding i don't know of any way to get someone else to change thier price except maybe barter

what can you offer them

churches like free stuff


You really think they came up with 20.00 a hour to make me reconsider even renting? If that's the case idk.. And yes I offered to make cakes for their event, it was very brief when we met.
post #48 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelyCakes4Us View Post

Hay all, I have some questions and would like some advice on renting a church kitchen, Ifound a church right up the street from me that will rent their kitchen to me, a few weeks later I went to meet with them it was brief maybe 10 minutes. They looked sceptical until I told them Ihave taken safe serve have liability and so on. The head lady of the kitchen said quote "maybe this will be a lot better then I thought" icon_smile.gif. We then went over storage and ect, then how much to pay a hour. The lady said 10.50 I said that perfect I'm on a low income trying to start a business. The guy on the other hand insisted I pay more due to oven use. Understandable right? Yes. But then again most of my time there will be fondant work maybe a hour worth of baking. I left and received a call today he said I will be paying 20.00 a hour plus 100.00 deposit. I know this is a good price for a rental but with how tight my budget is makes $20 a hour impossible for me..

Any ideas on how I could try to see if they could reconsider to maybe $15 a hour or less being as I won't really be using the oven that much.. Heck I only get 1 order a week if that lol!! Any tips advice would be great!! How would you try to see if they could reconsider price if you're income was low?

Please no negitive comments on how I shouldn't try to start a business with low income.. Trust me its possible with the str eighth of the lord.

 

 

he knew you liked the $10.50

 

he doubled this part of your overhead

 

and wants you to put up $100 when you say you're low income

 

yeah i'd say he wasn't trying to help out any

 

maybe save face that they said yes at one point--but they mean 'no not really'

if an inmate is walking down the stairs is that condescending
 
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if an inmate is walking down the stairs is that condescending
 
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post #49 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by -K8memphis View Post

he knew you liked the $10.50

he doubled this part of your overhead

and wants you to put up $100 when you say you're low income

yeah i'd say he wasn't trying to help out any

maybe save face that they said yes at one point--but they mean 'no not really'
I didn't get that impression, it sounded to me like the lady threw out a figure that she would pay as a tenant without considering the costs, and the guy crunched the numbers and came up with a number that would be profitable for them. If I were renting out the kitchen to a tenant I would probably start out offering an hourly rate higher than my target so there may be some room for negotiation.

Asking for a deposit is standard procedure when renting anything, $100 is actually pretty low for a commercial kitchen deposit.
post #50 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft View Post

I didn't get that impression, it sounded to me like the lady threw out a figure that she would pay as a tenant without considering the costs, and the guy crunched the numbers and came up with a number that would be profitable for them. If I were renting out the kitchen to a tenant I would probably start out offering an hourly rate higher than my target so there may be some room for negotiation.

Asking for a deposit is standard procedure when renting anything, $100 is actually pretty low for a commercial kitchen deposit.


Considering they have been the ones contacting me would make me think you are correct in this situation, I was starting to think they didn't want me but when I go to thinking about it, I've only called them once he has called me about 4 times so I'm guessing they could sure use the extra income. Also I wasn't avoiding them by not calling them, i was doing my re search as I am now.
post #51 of 62

I would make a counteroffer to the church for say 12-13 Hr. Then see what they come back with, I think you can get it to 15 Hr. if you push the issue.

 

Best of luck, Jimmy

post #52 of 62

Well I have rented church kitchens, and maybe there is some information misssing here.  OP will no doubt fail to get the message, but for the rest of you, here it is:

 

US churches are registered with the IRS as NON PROFIT organizations.

 

When a BONA FIDE MEMBER of a church congregation rents their church kitchen for a ONE TIME ONLY event, there are many  EXEMPTIONS to the food rules that kick in.

 

When a FOR PROFIT BUSINESS rents church space on a regular basis, then the church might have to comply with the full set of food safety regs as if it was in fact a restaurant or bakery.  Which will cost them $$$ and might even require them to upgrade their facilities and certification. FYI the same applies to daycares and other regulated activities using church space on a REGULAR basis instead of an EVENT basis.

 

I believe that the church people took the OP's request to their legal advisor who pointed this difference out to them.  They did their due diligence according to the laws of your state.  Yes no doubt the OP will accuse me of some new sort of offensiveness...that's just the OP.

 

Here while I'm at it are more facts: the OP showed in her budget that she is deducting her personal household expenses off her business income to calculate profit.  Sorry babe but that will get you kicked real hard by the IRS...in back taxes and penalties and audits until kingdom come.  Your business finances must show all BUSINESS expenses and they can pay you an hourly salary and all employment taxes.  You should file and pay those employment taxes so that you can collect benefits. 

 

Your car gets a mileage allowance for expenses according to the miles logged for BUSINESS not the total.  Your house rent (when you MUST use a rented kitchen) gets prorated by floor area for office space--and your personal  grocery bill simply cannot be part of your BUSINESS finances.  You seriously need to get a local accountant to advise you.  Call me all the names you want...when the IRS invites you to a business meeting it ain't gonna be no picnic.

post #53 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BakingIrene View Post

Well I have rented church kitchens, and maybe there is some information misssing here.  OP will no doubt fail to get the message, but for the rest of you, here it is:

US churches are registered with the IRS as NON PROFIT organizations.

When a BONA FIDE MEMBER of a church congregation rents their church kitchen for a ONE TIME ONLY event, there are many  EXEMPTIONS to the food rules that kick in.

When a FOR PROFIT BUSINESS rents church space on a regular basis, then the church might have to comply with the full set of food safety regs as if it was in fact a restaurant or bakery.  Which will cost them $$$ and might even require them to upgrade their facilities and certification. FYI the same applies to daycares and other regulated activities using church space on a REGULAR basis instead of an EVENT basis.

I believe that the church people took the OP's request to their legal advisor who pointed this difference out to them.  They did their due diligence according to the laws of your state.  Yes no doubt the OP will accuse me of some new sort of offensiveness...that's just the OP.

Here while I'm at it are more facts: the OP showed in her budget that she is deducting her personal household expenses off her business income to calculate profit.  Sorry babe but that will get you kicked real hard by the IRS...in back taxes and penalties and audits until kingdom come.  Your business finances must show all BUSINESS expenses and they can pay you an hourly salary and all employment taxes.  You should file and pay those employment taxes so that you can collect benefits. 

Your car gets a mileage allowance for expenses according to the miles logged for BUSINESS not the total.  Your house rent (when you MUST use a rented kitchen) gets prorated by floor area for office space--and your personal  grocery bill simply cannot be part of your BUSINESS finances.  You seriously need to get a local accountant to advise you.  Call me all the names you want...when the IRS invites you to a business meeting it ain't gonna be no picnic.

I was only saying it in general, not to put in my business plan. So if my business is the ONLY job I have I shouldn't pay my rent with the profit I get from my business? Well that's exactly what I meant sorry if I did not word it correctly.. Secondly I'll be paying taxes and have collected all invoices for prior sales so I'm not to worried about the IRS at all, I'm doing everything legally and will remain to..
post #54 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyBoombats View Post

I would make a counteroffer to the church for say 12-13 Hr. Then see what they come back with, I think you can get it to 15 Hr. if you push the issue.

Best of luck, Jimmy

Thanks Jimmy! This is exactly why I started this thread thanks much!
post #55 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelyCakes4Us View Post

I was only saying it in general, not to put in my business plan. So if my business is the ONLY job I have I shouldn't pay my rent with the profit I get from my business?
It's fine to pay your rent with the salary you earn from your business after you pay tax (income and self-employment) on that salary. What you can't do is deduct your personal rent expense from your business revenue to reduce taxable net income.

So the final line in your list is not really profit, it's what you have left over for savings. The taxable profit for your business would be your revenue minus business expenses only, which is why it's a good idea to separate business and personal budgets.
post #56 of 62

If I'm not too late answering, I would ask if you could start at $15.00 an hour, and after a definable period of time when you're making more money, say "in 6 months" I can start paying you more - that is exactly what I did!

 

Hope this information helps,

 

Lisa Raffael

post #57 of 62

i looked this up recently and discovered that this church i mentioned upthread is still in hot water to the tune of four hundred thousand big ones

 

(originally it was for millions in taxes on the entire property--got that notched back...but still at it nine years later) 

 

you can get a flavor of how the government in tn views this if you get a chance to skim this article

 

tax exemption is a very big deal and should be safeguarded

 

note the word purely in the quote following the link

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20121115/NEWS06/311150008/Nashville-megachurch-appeals-tax-break-ruling-over-bookstore-cafe

 

 

Quote:

Tennessee State Board of Equalization

Property Tax Exemptions in Tennessee

How to Apply

for

Religious • Charitable • Educational • Scientific

Exemptions

Your property must meet three requirements before it can be granted tax exempt status.

 

1. The property must be owned by a religious, charitable, scientific, or nonprofit

educational institution.

 

2. The exempt institution must actively use the property purely and exclusively

for one or more of the exempt purposes of the institution.

 

3. Your organization must submit an application for exemption from property

taxation.

 

if an inmate is walking down the stairs is that condescending
 
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if an inmate is walking down the stairs is that condescending
 
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post #58 of 62

ok--well it was in another thread about renting from a church that we all discussed tax exemption in regard to non-profit organizations and for profit organizations and the calamities thereof

 

but the idea still fits here

 

my opinion on it -- just say no to renting from a church

if an inmate is walking down the stairs is that condescending
 
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if an inmate is walking down the stairs is that condescending
 
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post #59 of 62

I just wanted to chime in that there wasn't any mention of taxes in that budget. I was self-employed for a time in 2011 and as an experienced finance professional even I found it overwhelming to keep up with all the rules on when to pay, and more importantly, how much to pay. You may also have to figure out state taxes. If you're currently selling cakes, even cheaply, I assume you already know about all of this. But since you didn't include it, I thought you would appreciate the heads up. 

 

Also, I realize you probably won't take this in the spirit it's intended, but if you respond to people you are doing business with in the same way you do to people on here that are usually trying to offer you some useful advice, you're not going to get very far. Instead of constantly jumping up to defend yourself, take a second to think about whether there was actually some merit to what was said, because as they say, 'there's no smoke without fire'. A lot of us have had to learn the 'pause and take a breath before hitting the send button' lesson the hard way. 

elsewhere.
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elsewhere.
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post #60 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikiandkyle View Post

I just wanted to chime in that there wasn't any mention of taxes in that budget. I was self-employed for a time in 2011 and as an experienced finance professional even I found it overwhelming to keep up with all the rules on when to pay, and more importantly, how much to pay. You may also have to figure out state taxes. If you're currently selling cakes, even cheaply, I assume you already know about all of this. But since you didn't include it, I thought you would appreciate the heads up. 

Also, I realize you probably won't take this in the spirit it's intended, but if you respond to people you are doing business with in the same way you do to people on here that are usually trying to offer you some useful advice, you're not going to get very far. Instead of constantly jumping up to defend yourself, take a second to think about whether there was actually some merit to what was said, because as they say, 'there's no smoke without fire'. A lot of us have had to learn the 'pause and take a breath before hitting the send button' lesson the hard way. 

I would never ever ever ever talk to my customers the way I do on here, I take that very very serious when talking to my customers icon_smile.gif..

Thanks for the advice I am quick to defend myself that's just who I am but not for one second would I ever say anything unnessisary to my customers they deserve the utmost respect! icon_smile.gif
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