Ok, I'm A Butter User Now~

Decorating By flayvurdfun Updated 8 Apr 2005 , 9:17pm by GHOST_USER_NAME

SquirrellyCakes Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 6:01am
post #31 of 73

Just wanted to add for everyone's information, the following:
Butter has a melting temperature of between 82.4 and 96.8 degrees farenheit.
Shortening has a melting temperature of between 98 and 110 degrees farenheit. You have to take into account the humidity factor and sunlight, direct or indirect. No direct sunlight on the cake.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

elin Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 7:11am
post #32 of 73

Excuse me for asking. What is the different for blue bonnet and land o lakes?
Is one of them vegetarian?

m0use Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 12:21pm
post #33 of 73

Blue Bonnet is margarine (chemical imitation butter)
Land 'O Lakes is real butter (no imitation here)

GHOST_USER_NAME Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 3:15pm
post #34 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrellyCakes

will give you a much better result than using water as your liquid. Aways beat a recipe like this on low power, starting by softening your butter on low before adding your shortening. This gives you a better result.




I have found if I add water to my recipe (or any of the three I like to use) at all, it just curdles it (or looks curdled anyway). I have to add milk or some sort of milk products (creamer- heavy cream- evaporated milk- etc).

SquirrellyCakes Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 3:57pm
post #35 of 73

Me too Dawn, but I get E-mails from people that say they add water to the half butter and half shortening recipe, all the time and I cannot figure out why it works. I find the same issue when making a drizzle. GO figure why it works for some folks! Plus I cannot imagine why if you are adding butter, you wouldn't add milk or cream. I do find a difference too when you add 2% or skim milk, but it is a texture difference, not a curdling effect.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

cakeconfections Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 4:04pm
post #36 of 73

I have not really had a curdeling issue, but have always used milk or cream. I have just recently tried what Sharon Z has used which is coffeemate. Not the liquid. I take a cup of the coffeemate and comibine it with a cup of boiling water. Mix and the refriderate. So far good results.

Lisa Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 4:10pm
post #37 of 73

I'm one of those people who uses water with the half shortening/half butter recipe. I started making BC using milk. It was fine. Then I decided to try warm water in place of the milk. I had read that it would make the BC smoother. It did and I stuck with it. I think I could just as easily replace the warm water with warm milk but I can't tell a difference. I don't know why water doesn't work for some.

GHOST_USER_NAME Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 4:22pm
post #38 of 73

I agree, SQC, the thinner milk is much like adding water. It has to be thick.

Becky- I believe you are just making liquid cream when you add the water. If this works for you I'll have to try it. I would think it would be cheaper than buying the liquid form. But it has to produce the same or better icing for me. I love going cheap, but not at the expense of the final results. I like the idea of powder because I would think I could stock up on different flavors that way.

SquirrellyCakes Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 4:26pm
post #39 of 73

Likely the heat of the water melts the butter to some degree and makes it blend in better. I can see it with the edible oil products like coffeemate and they were originally designed to blend in and not separate and perhaps the additives have an effect also. Perhaps because of the amount of shortening added too. It is interesting, but if you think about it, when you grease a frying pan, heat it up and then put droplets of water on it, they bounce away from the grease, like the old saying about oil and water not mixing.
Interesting about the warmed water making a smoother icing. I don't know if you add salt or meringue powder to your icing, but I would think this is a factor too.
It is like using a high ratio shortening as oppposed to Crisco. Well, the high ratio shortenings can absorb the sugar better, of course the finer your powdered sugar the better. But this is what makes for a smoother icing. Of course if you use a really good high ratio shortening and then use a poorer quality powdered sugar, one that is not fine enough, well you are going to lost the effect.
I can tell you that when you make a drizzle from water and sugar or milk and sugar, you don't have a problem, but introduce softened butter to it, not melted, but softened, and it curdles, or appears curdled.
Actually I do find a big difference in taste, even when milk is used as opposed to cream etc. Maybe some people are more sensitive to taste, I don't know. I know that if I use all cream instead of part cream, part whole milk, I can taste the difference along with see a difference in texture. If I sift my icing sugar before using it as opposed to using it unsifted, I can feel a difference in the texture too.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

cakeconfections Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 4:34pm
post #40 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by cali4dawn



Becky- I believe you are just making liquid cream when you add the water. If this works for you I'll have to try it. I would think it would be cheaper than buying the liquid form. But it has to produce the same or better icing for me. I love going cheap, but not at the expense of the final results. I like the idea of powder because I would think I could stock up on different flavors that way.




It is thicker then water, and I suppose if you add more powder then water it will be creamier. I agree about cheaper. I just have the non flavor for now. But it seems to be working and after I make a few more cakes with continued success, i will start to get powder cofee cremers that are flavored. That would be great because the shelf life would be so much better and I would not have to worry about it going bad.

Lisa Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 4:41pm
post #41 of 73

I don't add salt or meringue powder. I use unsalted butter. I've been thinking about trying the cream in place of water though to see if I notice a difference. It is interesting though that milk is mostly water too. If milk works for you...you would think water should too.

SquirrellyCakes Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 4:50pm
post #42 of 73

Lisa, it is likely due to the butterfat content of the milk or cream, that it mixes in without separating.
Just wanted to say that a lot of folks are using the flavoured coffee creamers in their icing, I have seen many posts regarding this.
When you are using Coffeemate you are using an edible oil product, there is no cream or milk in it at all. It is not powdered milk.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

m0use Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 5:28pm
post #43 of 73

Actually...looked on coffemate's website...you are both right..sort of..
Coffeemate liquid French Vanilla flavour, the third ingredient is an oil product and the fourth ingredient is a milk derivative (but not a source of lactose).
Coffemate powdered French Vanilla flavour, the second ingredient is dehyrdated oil product and the fourth ingredient is a milk derivative (but not a source of lactose).

GHOST_USER_NAME Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 6:02pm
post #44 of 73

Ive added hot water to my buttercream thinking that may be the problem... but it still separates and looks curdled... so I don't think so. But I do think adding the water to the creamer is making the artificial creamer that we are now buying in liquid form. I've always considered the stuff artificial and non-dairy....

Lisa Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 6:27pm
post #45 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by cali4dawn

Ive added hot water to my buttercream thinking that may be the problem... but it still separates and looks curdled... so I don't think so. But I do think adding the water to the creamer is making the artificial creamer that we are now buying in liquid form. I've always considered the stuff artificial and non-dairy....




Not hot water...it has to be just warm to the touch. Hot would melt everything down too much. Maybe the recipe I'm using is more stable. I'm pretty sure I could add just about any liquid and it would come out fine. I've never curdled a batch of buttercream. Bet that's yuck!

Kiddiekakes Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 6:35pm
post #46 of 73

Well I'd like to use Butter because it does give it a better taste but at $3.99 a pound here(Canada) and you consider you use half of it to make one batch of icing....costs can get up there!! I buy the large 6lb flat tub of Margarine as the whole flat is $5.49 but Yeah...if Butter was cheaper....I'd use it all the time!!

AgentCakeBaker Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 6:44pm
post #47 of 73

Kiddiekakes

If you ever decide to buy butter you could incorporate that cost into your cake price. Just a suggestion.

SquirrellyCakes Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 6:57pm
post #48 of 73

Hi MOuse, should have been more specific, sorry, the powdered creamer doesn't contain milk as per the site - they are dairy product free. An excerpt from the site follows.

Does COFFEE-MATE contain lactose?

COFFEE-MATE Liquid and Powder do not contain any lactose they are non-dairy, lactose-free products.

COFFEE-MATE Latte Creations and Half and Half products both contain milk and lactose.

I have a habit of referring to Coffeemate as the powdered kind, not the newer liquid creamer versions. The liquid newer modified flavoured versions are supposed to only have a shelf life of 7 days once opened according to the site.
Yes, Kiddiekakes makes lovely icing with the tub margarine, she is about the only person I know of that doesn't have problems with it due to the higher moisture contenct of the tub margarines, but obviously it works well for her because her cakes are wonderful.
I suppose a lot would have to do with the product you are using too.
The tub margarines are not meant to be in baked recipes unless specifically called for, generally when margarine can be used, it is meant to be the hard margarine, again due to the moisture content and also to how the heat affects the chemical breakdown of it.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

Lisa Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 7:04pm
post #49 of 73

Has anyone tried the 0 trans fat version of Crisco in their icing? It seems like it would be a healthier alternative. I was curious if it would work.

aobodessa Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 8:03pm
post #50 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentCakeBaker

Do you use salted or unsalted for buttercream icing?




One should always use UNsalted butter for baking (unless salted is called for in recipe), and SALTED for eating/other cooking. icon_smile.gif

cakeconfections Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 8:11pm
post #51 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by aobodessa

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentCakeBaker

Do you use salted or unsalted for buttercream icing?



One should always use UNsalted butter for baking (unless salted is called for in recipe), and SALTED for eating/other cooking. icon_smile.gif


I dont think this is entirely true. It depends on each case. You can use either or in frosting or other things..

tcturtleshell Posted 6 Apr 2005 , 8:15pm
post #52 of 73

If you have a recipe for unsalted butter it usually says put an 1/8 t of salt in it.. So I just used salted & not worry about it~ ~TC~

SquirrellyCakes Posted 7 Apr 2005 , 2:05am
post #53 of 73

Interesting debate. Here is the thing, being an old brawd of 50, haha, I can tell you that the older cookbooks and recipes, when they called for butter, well it generally meant salted butter - that would cover a time frame from around the 1950's until approximate 1990. But on the whole, a good cookbook should really have a section where they tell you what they mean when they call for butter, the size of eggs used in a recipe etc.
Cookbooks written during the first and second world war, generally we made with the idea of using cheaper more available ingredients.
Recipes and the ingredients called for, change with the times. At one time, the size of eggs used was medium, then at one time extra large and now generally the size used is large.
From about 1990 until present, well generally a lot of the cookbooks and recipes do call for unsalted butter and frequently also unbleached flour. This is a trend.
In Canada, it will soon be illegal to sell fat products that are composed of transfats, so we will see a new trend again as some recipes are adjusted.
It is generally wise to use what is called for and if a recipe calls for salted or unsalted butter use what is called for. If you cannot, then adjust the salt called for in your recipe to accomodate the salted butter that you are replacing the unsalted with and vice versa. This generally will not make any noticable difference in a recipe.
The longer you are around this earth you start to notice that cooking becomes very trendy with ideas catching on from different parts of the globe.
But honestly you cannot assume that a recipe means unsalted butter unless it states so and vice versa. It really isn't so much definitive as it is a sign of the times. Presently, newer recipes are likely being made with salted butter - but not always.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

Lisa Posted 7 Apr 2005 , 2:16am
post #54 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrellyCakes


In Canada, it will soon be illegal to sell fat products that are composed of transfats, so we will see a new trend again as some recipes are adjusted.




All really interesting! I did not know this. Do you think that might be why Crisco came out with a 0 trans fat? Why are they illegal? Are they that bad for us. I'm beginning to think I better start experimenting with the 0 TS Crisco.

MindiBrad Posted 7 Apr 2005 , 2:24am
post #55 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisa

Has anyone tried the 0 trans fat version of Crisco in their icing? It seems like it would be a healthier alternative. I was curious if it would work.




Ever since I saw it in the stores, it is the only Crisco that I use (unless I need Butter-flavored, but I assume that they will be coming out with 0-TFA Buuter flavored soon)

It works just fine!

MindiBrad Posted 7 Apr 2005 , 2:27am
post #56 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisa

Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrellyCakes


In Canada, it will soon be illegal to sell fat products that are composed of transfats, so we will see a new trend again as some recipes are adjusted.



All really interesting! I did not know this. Do you think that might be why Crisco came out with a 0 trans fat? Why are they illegal? Are they that bad for us. I'm beginning to think I better start experimenting with the 0 TS Crisco.




there's is no need to "experiment" with it...I didn't find a whit of difference in my icing once I switched to it...

and yes - TFAs ARE that bad for you. Ever since the food industry started using partially hydrogenated fats (TFAs) and high-fructose corn syrup in everything (to save costs), obesity and heart disease rates have SKYROCKETED

And I'm not even going to get IN to what all the hormones pumped into our meat/dairy/egg supply has done to young girls!

SquirrellyCakes Posted 7 Apr 2005 , 2:38am
post #57 of 73

Ain't that the truth, all of the playing around with food has led to high blood pressure and extreme obesity and heart attacks in young people!
Yes, trans-fats basically become artery clogging hard or solid fat when they are eaten and nothing dissolves them. Which is why they are being made illegal within the next few months here in Canada. I assume the U.S. will likely follow suit since I know this is a major problem also in the U.S.
I haven't had to buy any Crisco for a long time, so I don't know if this "0" trans-fat Crisco is available here. It will be interesting to see if the other high-ratio shortenings that are readily available in the U.S. also change to no trans-fats and interesting also to see how they affect the absorbtion rate of the sugar etc.
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

Lisa Posted 7 Apr 2005 , 2:56am
post #58 of 73

I've seen the 0 TF Crisco in our stores here. I was curious how it would hold up in icing. I've bought the 0 TF peanut butter. It tastes great...very natural but the oil separates from the peanut. It has to be stirred and kept refrigerated. I was afraid the Crisco would be the same way.

SquirrellyCakes Posted 7 Apr 2005 , 3:00am
post #59 of 73

Heehee, when I was a kid all of the peanut butter did that, that was for some reason, what made it taste so great! Jack'n Jill peanut butter, yummy! Don't think you can get it anymore in Canada, but heck, I guess I will be happy if the "0" transfat ones do that, haha!
Is it all-natural without preservatives? Is that why the refridgeration or is it because of the no trans-fats?
Hugs Squirrelly Cakes

Lisa Posted 7 Apr 2005 , 3:11am
post #60 of 73

SquirrellyCakes...it is delicious. Smuckers makes it and it is all natural without perservatives. That probably is why it requires refrigeration. I didn't even think of that. I love the taste but it's really hard to stir after it's been refrigerated.

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%