Attended First Bridal Show

Business By BatterUpCake Updated 28 Aug 2013 , 2:08pm by BatterUpCake

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jason_kraft Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 3:29am
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A

Original message sent by BatterUpCake

I agree. Never thought about it until one of the planners asked me. Would you recommend getting a deposit from well established businesses?

Absolutely, a refundable deposit is a must. Even reputable businesses can have accidents, and reputable businesses may not always have reputable customers.

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Norasmom Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 3:34am
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Batterup, I noticed on your webpage showing your cake stands that you did not put a cake on top of them.  Show the product in action, for sure!  As for "picking up trade show cards," without paying to display, it's not criminal activity.  If it works, it works.  It's actually called leads generation in sales and it's actually a clever thing if you do it tactfully.  For, example, don't call Annabakes cakes and say "Hey, I didn't pay to get into the bridal expo but I picked up your card anyways..."  Just call and introduce yourself.  Plus, your cake stands are not tacky, they are useful and classic.  I can see a bride passing one of them down to a daughter.

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BatterUpCake Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 3:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norasmom 

Batterup, I noticed on your webpage showing your cake stands that you did not put a cake on top of them.  Show the product in action, for sure!  As for "picking up trade show cards," without paying to display, it's not criminal activity.  If it works, it works.  It's actually called leads generation in sales and it's actually a clever thing if you do it tactfully.  For, example, don't call Annabakes cakes and say "Hey, I didn't pay to get into the bridal expo but I picked up your card anyways..."  Just call and introduce yourself.  Plus, your cake stands are not tacky, they are useful and classic.  I can see a bride passing one of them down to a daughter.

I am waiting on some foam dummies to make cakes for them and one of my clients sent me  picture with permission to use it today. She is working on one for the natural wood stand she purchased as well.

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jason_kraft Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 3:42am
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AAnother idea if you are just starting out and need pictures is offering (for a limited time) to waive the rental fee for vendors in exchange for a professional picture of the cake on the stand. The refundable deposit would still be required, but this would allow the vendor to make some free money charging the customer for renting the stand.

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jason_kraft Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 3:47am
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A

Original message sent by Norasmom

For, example, don't call Annabakes cakes and say "Hey, I didn't pay to get into the bridal expo but I picked up your card anyways..."  Just call and introduce yourself.

Interesting, I was under the impression all vendors were legally obligated to explain in detail the cheap and tacky way they acquired your contact information. :D

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BatterUpCake Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 10:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft 

Another idea if you are just starting out and need pictures is offering (for a limited time) to waive the rental fee for vendors in exchange for a professional picture of the cake on the stand. The refundable deposit would still be required, but this would allow the vendor to make some free money charging the customer for renting the stand.

you left out who is offering...

 

DUh...lol. I got it

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tdovewings Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 12:32pm
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I think you are fairly close to me:

 

Checkout the upcoming cake shows for 2014 perhaps. I even think there is one in the Tidewater area soon:

 

cakeshow.org

 

http://www.greatamericancakeshow.com/

 

http://cdotcakeshow.org/

 

I love shopping at cake shows for bigger/heavier/bulkier items because I don't have to pay for shipping. It would be even better if you came with stands to actually sell at the shows. In fact I was looking for some this year at the National Capital Area Cake show with no luck.

 

 

Good luck!

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BatterUpCake Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 12:35pm
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Wow...That is cheap! Thanks for the info!!

 

For $225 I can do both shows!!

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 12:36pm
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ASorry, that's not a good idea. Renting to cake decorators once again takes them out of the occasion. It's also a horrid mess. Now not only do I have to worry about getting it back, I also have I worry about getting it back to you. I have to pay you a deposit & get one from the client. Not happening!

Honestly, your target client should be: Cake decorators (biggest amount of clients) Coordinators (sole & those at venues) Rental companies Brides (smallest punt of clients)

See, I listed them in order.

Sure there may be a few cake artists willin to rent. These will be few. Maybe they need a last minute one because someone hasn returned theirs or one got damaged. Very few.

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ApplegumPam Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 12:44pm
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Wow Batterup...... just checked your website link

 

I thought you were going to be making and selling these stands cheaper than Sarah's Stands.  icon_sad.gif    I remember you thinking they were PRETTY EXPENSIVE !!
 

Did you find them more expensive to make than you originally thought? 

 

You got 'Mates Rates' for your buddies??   icon_razz.gificon_razz.gificon_razz.gif

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BatterUpCake Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 12:55pm
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Yes they are expensive to make. Plus I applied the same principle as we do in caking if you are making a quality product don't undercut the competition. If I came on here and said I am charging way less because I am new for cake, everyone would say don't become the cheap cake lady and you are doing yourself a disservice and a disservice to the industry. I have searched and there are very few quality wood stands available. They are pretty labor intensive. I am glad you like them though.

 

I cannot discuss sales on here. To answer specific questions you would need to contact me outside of CC

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ApplegumPam Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 1:05pm
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To be honest ... IF I had to choose between purchasing a stand from a company with an established reputation AND a new entity and they were much the same price....  I would go with the established company WITH the reputation...

 

I know what you are saying but its a bit like.......   we don't all set our prices in line with Ron Ben Israel.....    well, we could....... but we might be waiting for hell to freeze over before we got it
 

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BatterUpCake Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 1:12pm
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I understand. But Hell is freezing over because I have no shortage of orders. Sara's stands are beautiful and well deserving their reputation. My woodcrafter chews me out saying I am not charging enough....lol. I am not making a huge profit margin on the work. I wish I could create something as beautiful as Sara's stands at 1/2 the price or even 3/4...but I would be paying people to take my product. I am comfortable with my prices and hope someday to earn the reputation that Sara has.

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jason_kraft Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 2:16pm
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A

Original message sent by DeliciousDesserts

Sorry, that's not a good idea. Renting to cake decorators once again takes them out of the occasion.

I'm not sure what you mean by this...I was thinking that renting to cake decorators on an as-needed basis would keep them more involved in the occasion, as opposed to requiring the bride to talk to a separate vendor to get a cake stand. The decorator would also have incentive to upsell the bride on the cake stand if they get a cut of the rental fee.

It's also a horrid mess. Now not only do I have to worry about getting it back, I also have I worry about getting it back to you. I have to pay you a deposit & get one from the client. Not happening!

You're right that the decorator returning the stand is an extra step, but there are a few ways around this: the decorator could tell the customer to return the stand directly to the stand rental company (if they are comfortable with that), or the stand rental company could offer a delivery/pickup service at a premium price.

In exchange, the decorator can offer a wide variety of premium stands in multiple sizes without having to buy anything or keep anything in stock. Seems like a win-win to me.

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 2:29pm
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AFor me, and I think many others, it's just too much of a hassle & would cost me more on the long run.

I can purchase a metal 14" sq for $60. I rent stands for $30. The $30 covers the time I spend cleaning & prepping the stand & also covers the cost of the stand. Having the stand means I don't have to remind the bride to being it to me, I know the structural integrity, & I can build the cake right on the stand.

If intent that same stand, I have to pay a deposit, pick it up, clean & prep it, get it back from the bride, clean it again, @ return it to the renter. If the bride forgot it at the venu or elsewhere & I have to track it down, there may be a late fee.

Bottom line, it's complicated & messy. No way. I'm buying my stand.

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 2:31pm
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ASeriously. Even my 16" wood was only $90. The most I've paid is $130 for an 18" silver.

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 2:39pm
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AOk. Deep breath & reflective thought.

Honestly there may be a few willing to rent. I don't think this is your target audience. Sure, pick up a few. Just concentrate & market to your target.

For that to work for me, the renter would have to: Delver to me Assure me the stands are sanitized Rent directly to client Pick up from venue or bride

Basically, remove me from the whole thin & bring me a perfect stand by Wed before the wedding.

Almost every single time ice used someone else's stand, something has gone wrong. Even had one once that was crooked. Just a hassle!

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jason_kraft Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 2:40pm
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Original message sent by DeliciousDesserts

I can purchase a metal 14" sq for $60.

There would be nothing preventing you from buying stands and keeping them in stock, a partnership with a stand rental company simply expands what you can offer your customer without a large upfront investment. To carry a complete line of premium wood stands (14", 16", 18", and 20") you would need to spend $800+ upfront and have the space to store them all. With a pass-through rental arrangement you spend $0 upfront with no long-term storage requirements.

I rent stands for $30. The $30 covers the time I spend cleaning & prepping the stand & also covers the cost of the stand.

The stand rental company would clean & prep the stand for you.

Having the stand means I don't have to remind the bride to being it to me, I know the structural integrity, & I can build the cake right on the stand.

The same holds true for a stand you rent from a rental company, since it would be delivered before production.

If intent that same stand, I have to pay a deposit

Which is passed on to the customer.

pick it up, clean & prep it, get it back from the bride, clean it again, @ return it to the renter.

Aside from picking it up and returning it to the renter (which can be left to the rental company for a fee) this is no different than a stand you own.

If the bride forgot it at the venu or elsewhere & I have to track it down, there may be a late fee.

Which is passed on to the customer.

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jason_kraft Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 2:43pm
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A

Original message sent by DeliciousDesserts

Basically, remove me from the whole thin & bring me a perfect stand by Wed before the wedding.

Removing the decorator from the transaction also removes any potential revenue the decorator would receive, as well as any incentive the decorator has use the rental company. In fact there would be a disincentive to use the rental company, since the decorator would not be able to keep a portion of the rental fee, unlike with stands the decorator owns.

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 2:46pm
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AI honestly don't mean to be rude by this statement: how many stands have you rented? I have many years experience tracking down stands, trying to get repair costs/replacement costs from a bride after a wedding, and working with rental companies. It's a hassle. I don't have time for it.

When I first started, I used the deposit to purchase the stand for the wedding cake. It meant a loss on the cake in terms of numbers, but it worked & was worth it.

Even if you explain away or dismiss my very valid points, the final point remains: this is Not the bulk of her sales. This is not her target audience.

It will work for some. Certainly don't turn those away, but focus on the mass.

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 2:49pm
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A

Original message sent by jason_kraft

Removing the decorator from the transaction also removes any potential revenue the decorator would receive, as well as any incentive the decorator has use the rental company. In fact there would be a disincentive to use the rental company, since the decorator would not be able to keep a portion of the rental fee, unlike with stands the decorator owns.

That was my first point!!! *facepalm*

So you suggest adding on to the fee? That puts me higher than my competitor. Not to mention the fee I would charge for being the middleman probably wouldn't be worth the time I'd have to invest. $10? That doesn't cover it. 20? Doesn't cover it. Add about 2 1/2 hours at least. That if I don't personally have to drive to wherever the bride left it.

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jason_kraft Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 3:05pm
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A

Original message sent by DeliciousDesserts

So you suggest adding on to the fee? That puts me higher than my competitor. Not to mention the fee I would charge for being the middleman probably wouldn't be worth the time I'd have to invest. $10? That doesn't cover it. 20? Doesn't cover it. Add about 2 1/2 hours at least. That if I don't personally have to drive to wherever the bride left it.

You are offering a premium product, so yes your rental fee would end up being higher than a competitor with a more basic stand. We charged 1/3 the replacement cost as a rental fee, but a business that specialized in stand rentals could probably charge 1/4 or less to the decorator (including delivery and pickup) due to higher throughput. For a $200 stand, this means I could charge the customer ~$70 while paying the rental company $50 for a stand that is cleaned and dropped off by the rental company before production and is picked up by the rental company after the customer returns it. My time investment over and above what would be required when using my own stand would be virtually zero.

We bought several stands in different sizes but they didn't see much use, as our focus was more on smaller cakes that did not require a stand, but we still needed to have stands available for multi-tier cakes. Working with a reputable stand rental company would have definitely been beneficial for us.

On the other hand, if you sell several multi-tier cakes every week and your stands have a relatively high utilization rate then you are probably better off buying your own stands. Of course the issues you mentioned (tracking down stands, getting deposits from customers) also apply if you own your own stands.

I definitely agree that working with a rental company adds an extra layer of complexity, which is why it's critical for the rental company to focus on customer service with a sense of urgency to make the transaction as seamless as possible. If the rental company does a good job this would be reflected in online reviews.

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 3:30pm
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APerhaps things are different here in Charleston. Entirely possible.

There is a baker 1.3 miles from me who has the gorgeous, well made real wood stand with diamond ribbon. She charges $60 to rent that stand. All other stands are $30 (going rate in my area). In the 3 years she's had that stand, she's rented it twice. Doesn't seem like much, but people won't pay $60 for a stand.

The product wouldn't be premium. Plenty of bakers in my area own the Sarah stands or other gorgeous stands. Going rate (except the one I mentioned) is $30. No room to tack on a hassle fee.

That extra layer to me, isn't worth the $20 clients wouldn't pay.

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 3:38pm
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A

Original message sent by DeliciousDesserts

Even if you explain away or dismiss my very valid points, the final point remains: this is Not the bulk of her sales. This is not her target audience.

It will work for some. Certainly don't turn those away, but focus on the mass.

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jason_kraft Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 3:40pm
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AAgreed, the business model is very dependent on what the end customer will pay. If customers are happy enough with $100 stands, that's the price point the rental company should focus on, and the value added becomes more about the decorator offering more variety to the customer than adding profit for the decorator.

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jason_kraft Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 3:47pm
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A

Original message sent by DeliciousDesserts

There is a baker 1.3 miles from me who has the gorgeous, well made real wood stand with diamond ribbon. She charges $60 to rent that stand. All other stands are $30 (going rate in my area). In the 3 years she's had that stand, she's rented it twice. Doesn't seem like much, but people won't pay $60 for a stand.

This is only a single data point, but if you extrapolate out to a large metro area with several dozen cake decorators the numbers might work (depending on your market research of course). For example, if you find that a single decorator can rent a $200 stand once every 18 months, 36 local decorators in aggregate would be renting a $200 stand every two weeks, and 72 decorators would rent a $200 stand every week. The fact that the utilization is so low for a single decorator tips the scales heavily in favor of renting vs. buying.

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BatterUpCake Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 4:28pm
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A lot of good info to consider. Thank you...

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 4:40pm
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A

Original message sent by jason_kraft

This is only a [B]single data point,[/B] but if you extrapolate out to a large metro area with several dozen cake decorators the numbers might work (depending on your market research of course). For example, if you find that a single decorator can rent a $200 stand once every 18 months, 36 local decorators in aggregate would be renting a $200 stand every two weeks, and 72 decorators would rent a $200 stand every week. The fact that the utilization is so low for a single decorator tips the scales heavily in favor of renting vs. buying.

First of all, I acknowledged that by saying Charleston may be different. However it isn't a Single data point. While Charleston is small, it is still considered a metropolitan city. Heck, we are The destination wedding location. Of the 40 something bakeries I know, only one has a stand rental more than $30. That one stand has only been rented twice. A stand rental company would not be good in this particular market (Charleston). As a matter of fact, the rental companies (event works, event drs, & Snyder rentals) have concurred with me. They do not rent enough stands to be profitable.

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 4:42pm
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A

Original message sent by jason_kraft

For example, if you find that a single decorator can rent a $200 stand once every 18 months, 36 local decorators in aggregate would be renting a $200 stand every two weeks, and 72 decorators would rent a $200 stand every week. .

Nope! Just that one.

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 27 Aug 2013 , 4:42pm
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A

Original message sent by BatterUpCake

A lot of good info to consider. Thank you...

Shhhh Mommy and Daddy are talking (arguing). LOL

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