Hey,

I took a deposit for a wedding cake back in January for a wedding on the 29th of April. The order was cancelled on the 23rd of March and the client asked if they could get a birthday cake made instead for a date in May!

Their initial wedding cake order was a 6 tier cake so i was pretty annoyed and i just said i didn't have the date available. He didn't actually say he was hoping to use the deposit for this but it was pretty obvious what he was trying to do.

Now, i'm not great with contracts etc so there was no agreements etc and i didn't state that deposits are non refundable although i did say initially that a deposit would be required to save your date! so not that you can have a cake made at any time!

I had a message saying that i still have his deposit and wants to check what dates i have available to make him a cake.

I replied saying...

Unfortunately as is normal practice, deposits are to secure a specific date and are lost when the client cancels and can not be transferred to a different date. As your order was quite large i had turned away other business so that i could solely concentrate on your cake. It was then too late to get another booking. As a small business this was quite a large loss to me.

He has replied with...

Just to add i do state on all orders now that deposits are non refundable xx

how much is the deposit?

i mean i would not change the date -- i don't want you to give him anything back but for sure don't change the date -- he broke the little bit of contract you had by cancelling  -- you are within your rights to keep the deposit because he caused you to loose business -- but since that wasn't presented till after he cancelled... now it just depends on how much hassle you want to go through -- i'd say for the cause of peace send back 50% stating your reason of losing business and just cover your ears and hold your breath till he goes away -- and don't try to negotiate or have a conversation -- just send back x amount and be done with it --

and yes call it a retainer from now on and yes -- in fact i said that all payments made are non-refundable -- i divided the balance due into three and none of them were refundable -- i explained what each was for and my clients understood -- first was to hold the date where i cleared my calendar and my family's calendar for a week or two to fit their cake into our lives -- the second is to purchase everything -- the third is to pay me for my work -- one girl paid in full a year in advance and i said -- this cake being made/delivered is not dependent on you getting married -- you're getting this cake in a year -- and she was fine with that --

oh and tell him he didn't specifically ask for the deposit back in that initial exchange -- so why should he expect to get it back now -- after you could not do his birthday cake in may!

that's using his own logic "... i also contacted you shortly after to ask for another cake and you reslonded by saying that the date isnt available....not that i cant go ahead and i had lost my deposit."

you figured he did not ask for his deposit because it was agreed it was to hold the date and the date was held for two months -- contract fulfilled --

maybe 

I would stick to your guns on this one; you are being totally reasonable. You lost the opportunity to make more money that weekend and you explained it really clearly to him; so if he either doesn't understand or doesn't care then it's not your problem. 

If the deposit was paid to hold the date, the date was held, orders were turned down, cake was cancelled in March, and he asked for a cake to be made in May? It's August *falls off chair*  Deposits don't get used to roll over from month to month to month. I personally wouldn't refund anything. You already stated your reasoning for the loss of the deposit. So the whole return the deposit or put it towards another cake means 0. You could return it and be done with him because he seems like he is going to be a pain if you don't do one or the other, but if it were me, I would explain it again and that's the end.

yeah, ypierce, it's august -- wth?

i mean -- yeah like ypierce said -- it's august now -- rip van winkel is just waking up?

Lol I had to be sure I was in the right month because he is talking about a deposit that was for a cake in April, He's confused.

i know -- this is confusing

If I read that correctly the client gave 1 month notice of cancellation, would that not be a reasonable amount of time to get some sort of a deposit back?

If you genuinely had knocked back an order I can see why you would be cranky for sure but if you hadn't surely some leniency would be called for? Particularly if they wanted the deposit put towards another cake and not just returned?

Maybe I am being a bit soft here lol. 

Did you say that you didn't have a formal contract or that the contract didn't state the deposit was not refundable?  I'm not sure how much his deposit was but you should decide if it's really worth it if he decides to take legal action.  I know this is a bummer, but I'm afraid that if info about the deposit being nonrefundable wasn't in writing, he may have grounds to sue you for it.  If you can prove that he knew in advance that the deposit was not refundable and can prove that you lost business, then that's another story.  Otherwise it will be your word against his.  Also, a judge may decide that 30 days is a reasonable amount of notice to cancel an order and ask for proof of lost business.  Was there anything in your contract about how much notice needs to be given when canceling an order?  If you've heard the term "the customer is always right", it might be true in this case.  But I'm glad you included those details in your future contracts.

I am with bubs and bvwilliams on this one.  Does it suck that such a large order was cancelled?  Sure.  But the fact that you really didn't have anything in writing and did not make it clear that the deposit was non-refundable, than the customer should get his deposit back.

" i did say initially that a deposit would be required to save your date!"

i think that's the contract and he got what he paid for -- 

But in no way did anything state that the deposit required to save the date was non-refundable.

neither did it say it was

caveat emptor

So because the OP did not properly communicate her intentions with the deposit than the customer is just poo out of luck?  I don't find that to be okay in anyway.  And the customer, I believe, in this case would have a very large legal leg to stand on if he were to pursue this any further.  I have no idea how much the deposit was, but if it was a large priced order than it was probably significant and I don't blame the customer for wanting it back especially if there is nothing in writing stating that it wasn't refundable.

yeah -- she didn't communicate -- he didn't ask 

Caveat emptor is a neo-Latin phrase meaning "let the buyer beware." It is a principle of contract law in many jurisdictions that places the onus on the buyer to perform due diligence before making a purchase.

lbean76 -- so what did you do??

So then neither should get the deposit.  I will happily take it off OPs hands.

take me to lunch?

Depending on the deposit it could be very a nice lunch!

Hey,

Thanks for all your feedback. As always we live, we learn. I haven't actually replied to him as yet as i'm still deciding what to do. The deposit was £75.

So not enough for him to take legal action for but also not too much for me just to (grudgingly) hand it back and never do business with him again!

You've all made some very valid points and made me smile too. 

I'll probably issue his refund back at some point, it might take a little while though as i'm super busy planning out my new contract! LOL

Thanks ladies 

Happy caking xx

wait so you mean me & freckles ain't going to lunch     

Look me up when you're in the Uk and i'll take you for fish, chips n mushy peas xx

YAY!!! you're on! 

LBean76, I think you're doing the right thing by refunding the deposit and considering it a lesson learned.  And keep in mind that the term "caveat emptor" meaning "Let the buyer beware" is usually a term referring to scammers or dishonest sellers.  You don't want that kind of reputation because word of mouth travels quickly.  Just saying...