Fda Ruling Could Ban Shortening With Trans Fats In Us
Decorating By jason_kraft Updated 26 Nov 2013 , 2:07pm by milkmaid42
I just made some brownies from scratch and they're really good, yum yum yum. They have booze in them, too.
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Original message sent by embersmom
When the icing we currently use was first reformulated, it caused a lot of problems both in using it and with the taste. The company has since reformulated it again, so now the taste is OK, but the application of it is still off because whatever they're substituting for the trans-fat is very temperature-sensitive. I mean, we have to leave it over by the oven in the dead of winter in order to get it soft enough to use it! During the warmer months it's a gloppy, noncrusting mess, so soft you can't really pipe anything with it.
We had a similar issue with our dairy-free BC frosting made with Sweetex Z during very hot days...we were working in a commercial kitchen and if it was too warm we would have to do the piping in the walk-in fridge. For those doing baking from home you would need to blast the A/C on hot days to make sure the frosting doesn't get too warm.
The thing I don't understand about zero trans fat shortening is that they contain mono and di-glycerides. From everything I read they are trans fats, but since they contain less than .5 grams, you can label it trans-fat free. I wonder if the zero trans fat shortenings (like Sweetex-Z) that use mono- and di-glycerides will have to be reformulated too. This will be interesting to see how it pans out. Since my niche is dairy-free I use shortening. Many of my customers avoid soy-based products entirely so I primarily use 100% palm oil. I have used Sweetex-Z in the past (which is mostly palm oil too), and I will say that I love it and hate it because of the emulsifiers. The emulsifiers help in that it is the only way (I know at least) to fully incorporate fruit, dairy-free yogurts, and other things into frosting without the use of eggs without the frosting seperating. It is harder to work with because it is so airy, which I think is a result of the polysorbate 60 (whipping aid). I tend to have less problems with 100% palm oil. Life would be easier if I could just use butter and eggs, but I can't. I foresee if things like Sweetex-Z are eliminated too, my entire menu will have to change and I will no longer be able to make things like real strawberry frosting or mock cream cheese frostings. I know trans fat and mono-diglycerides are not the best, but they do provide alternatives for those that can't have dairy or egg products, but can tolerate soy derivatives like mono and di-glycerides.
i think parchment bags also reduce on the heat transfer of hot hands/atmosphere to melty icing--also using two bags in & out the fridge--blasting the air is too costly pour moi--
i have also worn gloves to pipe but that's mostly to keep me from getting burned on hot sugar but it sure would work to maintain the icing temp too
omg--baked stuff with booze (and booze is trans fat free ;) is the best imo--here's a good one--sugar free jello is the bombshabomb with a dash of grand marnier or rum ;)
a dash!
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Original message sent by tdovewings
The thing I don't understand about zero trans fat shortening is that they contain mono and di-glycerides. From everything I read they are trans fats, but since they contain less than .5 grams, you can label it trans-fat free. I wonder if the zero trans fat shortenings (like Sweetex-Z) that use mono- and di-glycerides will have to be reformulated too. This will be interesting to see how it pans out. Since my niche is dairy-free I use shortening. Many of my customers avoid soy-based products entirely so I primarily use 100% palm oil.
Reformulation of existing ZTF shortening products is certainly a possibility, it depends if the trans fat ban applies to both lipids and emulsifiers. The FDA labeling requirement for trans fat exempted emulsifiers. If emulsifiers are in scope for the ban, it's possible for one or more manufacturers to submit a food additive petition to the FDA arguing that the benefits of small amounts of mono and diglycerides outweigh the risks.
Regarding soy-free we used Spectrum shortening (100% palm oil) to offer soy-free frosting as an alternative but the taste and texture of the Sweetex-Z based frosting was superior. If Sweetex-Z was not available I'm sure we would be able to improve on the quality of the Spectrum frosting but it would require more R&D.
As an illustration of what is possible with even more restrictive rules, check out the Whole Foods list of banned ingredients. I can see many items on this list eventually being addressed by future FDA regulation. http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/about-our-products/quality-standards/unacceptable-ingredients-food
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As an illustration of what is possible with even more restrictive rules, check out the Whole Foods list of banned ingredients. I can see many items on this list eventually being addressed by future FDA regulation. http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/about-our-products/quality-standards/unacceptable-ingredients-food
That is pretty funny, because I bought a box full of mini desserts from the Whole Foods dessert case this summer, and the ingredient list they printed me included sleeve fillings and lots of unpronounceable items. Wish I still had it, and I would post it here. The desserts were mediocre at best, and certainly didn't contain only the purest of ingredients.
Liz
AYes,Liz. Its going to get very ugly.
I would offer a word advice. I don't know if it was this thread or another but the solution is not stock up on all the hi ratio you can find. Switch now. The one with all butter really does taste good :)
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Yes,Liz. Its going to get very ugly.
I would offer a word advice. I don't know if it was this thread or another but the solutn is not stock up on all the hi ratio you can find. Switch now. The one with all butter really does taste good
I don't use any shortening or margarine, so it doesn't affect me. :) Part of my unique selling proposition is that I use all natural ingredients, baked from scratch. So all of my recipes, including cookies and pie crusts use real butter. And I will add that it took a lot of testing and r & d to find the best recipes and methods for using real butter, which behaves differently in baking than man made products. But I love butter, so that wasn't a stretch for me.
Liz
AOh no that wasn't directed at you! I think I read somewhere before you use butter...i was just agreeing with you that it was going to get ugly. Sorry about that
That's ok Morgan . . . I do wonder who this will affect more - smaller bakers or larger in store bakeries? Many in store bakeries use Bettercreme style products - I am not sure if that style product has trans fats, but I'm sure their cake mixes probably do, so there is where they will be affected. (Along with the pastries/doughnuts/etc.)
But smaller bakers might be affected doubly if they use both mixes and products like Sweetex - it really could throw a wrench in the works.
Liz
The article you linked to does not mention banning anything besides trans fat. Regulating the max amount of sugar or salt per serving size is a possibility, albeit a remote one. Here is the crux of the article's point:
"In an interview Thursday, Willett cautioned that regulating sodium and sugar as additives would hardly be as easy as making a decision to ban trans fats. While trans fats have no nutritional value, salt is an essential nutrient. And sugar, when consumed at reasonable levels, is not harmful, he said. If it is to act on mounting scientific concern about dietary sodium and sugar, the FDA will have to rethink the assumption that an additive it considers as safe "is safe in any amount," Willett said."
A@carmijok
1. Regulating a food additive is not necessarily the same as banning it. If you read the last sentence of my quote, you will see that the issue is more that "safe" is not the same as "safe in any amount". 2. The FDA does not have the power to levy taxes. 3. If somehow the FDA was able to get Congress to pass a tax on salt and sugar, it would essentially be a national sales tax on all food. Somehow I doubt this will happen in our current political environment. 4. My earlier question still stands about your previous statement that a "sugar tax is happening", from what you've posted it seems like a sugar tax is more farfetched speculation than anything that is currently happening. I would be interested in seeing a single reputable source indicating that anyone is seriously talking about a tax on all sugar and/or salt.
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I do wonder who this will affect more - smaller bakers or larger in store bakeries? Many in store bakeries use Bettercreme style products - I am not sure if that style product has trans fats, but I'm sure their cake mixes probably do, so there is where they will be affected. (Along with the pastries/doughnuts/etc.)
But smaller bakers might be affected doubly if they use both mixes and products like Sweetex - it really could throw a wrench in the works.
Liz
My guess it's going to affect us big time in all areas. Most of our bread/roll dough comes in frozen and some kind of shortening is used in it. Ditto the pastries, the donuts, the muffins, the icing, the cakes...probably even the Bettercreme, which I don't recall whether or not contains trans-fats. When the first no trans-fat regulation came around, many of the items we received from vendors who reformulated their product were nothing like the product they had beforehand. Either the taste was off, or the texture, or something that you couldn't quite put a finger on. I've already explained what happened with our regular icing. Our sales fell during that period because people returned product saying it didn't taste "right".
That's ok Morgan . . . I do wonder who this will affect more - smaller bakers or larger in store bakeries? Many in store bakeries use Bettercreme style products - I am not sure if that style product has trans fats, but I'm sure their cake mixes probably do, so there is where they will be affected. (Along with the pastries/doughnuts/etc.)
But smaller bakers might be affected doubly if they use both mixes and products like Sweetex - it really could throw a wrench in the works.
Liz
During my brief stint as a grocery store decorator, all the icing colors came in buckets which never, ever had to be refrigerated, so that had to be transfat. The list of ingredients I don't remember anymore, but it didn't really seem to contain any real food. They had a whipped icing that had to be refrigerated and if that didn't have transfat, it had transfat-like ingredients.
It may affect me as a smaller baker since it means my competitors who use shortening in their icing may switch to butter and have an icing that can compete with mine in flavor and texture.
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The thing I don't understand about zero trans fat shortening is that they contain mono and di-glycerides. From everything I read they are trans fats, but since they contain less than .5 grams, you can label it trans-fat free.
tdovewings: the trick, and I do mean trickydicktrick, is in thelabeling.
If it says less than .5 grams PER SERVING; a serving is probably a teaspoon or tablespoon. Yes?
It's all still in there, and if you eat lots of it, you still get lots of it.
However they try to make people believe that they are getting close to Zero amounts by this labeling.
The FDA Government approved labeling permits this subterfuge. (more greased palms)
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Original message sent by MBalaska
The FDA Government approved labeling permits this subterfuge. (more greased palms)
And the FDA's proposed ban eliminates this subterfuge, since even <0.5g will no longer be acceptable.
The bigger issue is whether or not emulsifiers will be exempt from the ban.
If it says less than .5 grams PER SERVING; a serving is probably a teaspoon or tablespoon. Yes?
A typical BC recipe calls for 1/2 cup of shortening for 3 cups of frosting. A cupcake usually has about 1/4 cup of frosting, so the amount of shortening in one serving size would be 1/24 cup, or 2/3 tbsp. Serving sizes for shortening are usually 1 tbsp on the label.
AThe bakery that I worked at may be in big trouble because the icing was all sweetex and every cake was a mix.
they may be able to make it because they sell other things that they surprisingly make from scratch. But the cake department is done-zo.
A
Original message sent by morganchampagne
The bakery that I worked at may be in big trouble because the icing was all sweetex and every cake was a mix.
they may be able to make it because they sell other things that they surprisingly make from scratch. But the cake department is done-zo.
I doubt the manufacturers of cake mixes made with trans fat will simply abandon their entire product line. Bulk cake mixes are still sold in California so at least some of them have already reformulated ZTF products.
This also won't be happening overnight, in California there was a one year phase out period before the ban was enforced, with an additional year for deep frying dough and batter. The FDA's timeline will probably be similar.
U.S. Census report reports California’s population is moving out................................
Where are these former Californians going?
Texas, Arizona, Nevada, Washington State, & Oregon…....
Why?…..'Cause they sell Trans-Fat and their cakes taste good - No. { 
it’s the high taxes.}
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Original message sent by liz at sugar
That's ok Morgan . . . I do wonder who this will affect more - smaller bakers or larger in store bakeries?
It's going to affect "bakers" who don't know how to bake.
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It's going to affect all commercial baking.
It's going to affect everything in the baking aisle at your local supermarket.
It's going to affect the one-person home-based business who can't afford to switch to butter.
It's going to affect specialty bakers. Somebody around here mentioned being a dairy-free baker and now has to reformulate all her recipes because she doesn't use butter. It might not have been in this thread, though, but I do remember it being on CC.
I'm trying not to take what you said as an insult and I hope you didn't mean it as an insult toward me or any other supermarket baker; Once upon I time I DID bake a lot of things from scratch OTJ. Those days are gone. Now it's all about maximizing profits in a competitive industry that's getting more competitive every time you turn around. You can't do that baking everything from scratch.
It's going to affect all commercial baking.
It's going to affect everything in the baking aisle at your local supermarket.
It's going to affect the one-person home-based business who can't afford to switch to butter.
It's going to affect specialty bakers. Somebody around here mentioned being a dairy-free baker and now has to reformulate all her recipes because she doesn't use butter. It might not have been in this thread, though, but I do remember it being on CC.
I'm trying not to take what you said as an insult and I hope you didn't mean it as an insult toward me or any other supermarket baker; Once upon I time I DID bake a lot of things from scratch OTJ. Those days are gone. Now it's all about maximizing profits in a competitive industry that's getting more competitive every time you turn around. You can't do that baking everything from scratch.
Well, an unintended consequence of this ban may be the thinning out of bakeries. May be good for those who can make it work.
I think you can make a profit making many things from scratch, as long as the quality and taste are great. Honestly, there are a vast majority more bakeries who just bake off pre-fab stuff vs. making their own, but it isn't all about profit margin - some of it is about skill, and baking is part art and part science and you just can't fill in that spot with any widget that walks in the door for a job. That is really why all that pre-fab stuff exists.
The one thing I cannot bake from scratch and make a profit is bread - I take my hat off to bakeries who can do that successfully. :)
Liz
I for one will simply be raising my prices to compensate. Everyone will have to raise their prices so it may be a bit of a change for the general public, but it happened with gas and we still drive.
I use a butter/crisco combination for Sugarshack's recipe and it turns out beautifully…! Ordering Sweetex with shipping was quite pricey to me and I noticed not difference in how my buttercream came out.
I've been baking professionally for almost 20 years, all from scratch, and I've made a good profit every year. Supermarkets are about quantity over quality in order to maximize profits, and that just drives prices lower if you choose to compete on that level, which I don't. I'm like Liz in that my competitive advantage is that I know how to bake and I don't use anything artificial, so this won't affect me one little bit.
It's not going to affect everything in the baking aisle, I don't believe that there will be any problem still buying flour, sugar, unsweetened chocolate, nuts, etc. It will affect cake mixes, which I don't use.
Liz, out of curioisty, why is it not profitable to make bread from scratch? Is it the time involved? It can't be the ingredients if you're talking about a basic artisan bread...
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Well, an unintended consequence of this ban may be the thinning out of bakeries. May be good for those who can make it work.
I think you can make a profit making many things from scratch, as long as the quality and taste are great. Honestly, there are a vast majority more bakeries who just bake off pre-fab stuff vs. making their own, but it isn't all about profit margin - some of it is about skill, and baking is part art and part science and you just can't fill in that spot with any widget that walks in the door for a job. That is really why all that pre-fab stuff exists.
The one thing I cannot bake from scratch and make a profit is bread - I take my hat off to bakeries who can do that successfully. :)
Liz
:nodding:
One reason why my feathers tend to be ruffled when it comes to this whole supermarket vs. scratch argument is because it DOES take a certain skill to pull off producing a lot of product within a strict time frame. Not every "widget" can do it. Hell, if I had a dollar for ever "widget" I've tried to train in the past 20+ years, I'd be a very rich woman right now. I survived two layoffs at my former employer because they couldn't find anyone cheaper to take my place. The same thing is happening at my current employer right now. If I'm going to be targeted, it won't be until after the holidays because they KNOW they''ll have trouble finding someone. They gave up finding someone to cover my days off and ended to training one of my coworkers who definitely doesn't want to do it, but, yeah, she'll do it because she needs her job.
Bread making is an art. I make it from scratch at home every once in a while. Right now, though, we're trying to watch our carbs ;)
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I've been baking professionally for almost 20 years, all from scratch, and I've made a good profit every year. Supermarkets are about quantity over quality in order to maximize profits, and that just drives prices lower if you choose to compete on that level, which I don't. I'm like Liz in that my competitive advantage is that I know how to bake and I don't use anything artificial, so this won't affect me one little bit.
It's not going to affect everything in the baking aisle, I don't believe that there will be any problem still buying flour, sugar, unsweetened chocolate, nuts, etc. It will affect cake mixes, which I don't use.
Liz, out of curioisty, why is it not profitable to make bread from scratch? Is it the time involved? It can't be the ingredients if you're talking about a basic artisan bread...
It's the time factor. Artisan bread doesn't use any dough enhancers or such to hasten the proofing time, so it takes a lot longer for that process to happen.
We have several artisan bread bakeries in my area, and nearly all of them have had issues keeping up with demand. I doubt most of them make everything 100% by hand nowadays, given the demand for their products. As one of my old managers once said, "You gotta bake a s***load of bread to make a little money."
tdovewings: the trick, and I do mean trickydicktrick, is in thelabeling.
If it says less than .5 grams PER SERVING; a serving is probably a teaspoon or tablespoon. Yes?
It's all still in there, and if you eat lots of it, you still get lots of it.
However they try to make people believe that they are getting close to Zero amounts by this labeling.
The FDA Government approved labeling permits this subterfuge. (more greased palms)
very greasy and still contains trans fats probably
And the FDA's proposed ban eliminates this subterfuge, since even <0.5g will no longer be acceptable.
The bigger issue is whether or not emulsifiers will be exempt from the ban.
A typical BC recipe calls for 1/2 cup of shortening for 3 cups of frosting. A cupcake usually has about 1/4 cup of frosting, so the amount of shortening in one serving size would be 1/24 cup, or 2/3 tbsp. Serving sizes for shortening are usually 1 tbsp on the label.
maybe not--subterfuge is what lobbyists are all about
read the last segment on this label for a sugar substitute called Monk Fruit In The Raw--there's more than one fda 'zero'
there's 'zero' and there's 'zero' -- mb is right --
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It's the time factor. Artisan bread doesn't use any dough enhancers or such to hasten the proofing time, so it takes a lot longer for that process to happen.
We have several artisan bread bakeries in my area, and nearly all of them have had issues keeping up with demand. I doubt most of them make everything 100% by hand nowadays, given the demand for their products. As one of my old managers once said, "You gotta bake a s***load of bread to make a little money."
They should raise their prices if the demand is so high. I figured it was the time but if they have a customer base who's willing to buy it then they should capitalize on that and charge more. The only artisan baker that we had around here had to close when Atkins came along, it ruined his business. I think another one opened recently but they do more than just breads.
I personally don't see what the big deal is. It's not like cake mixes are going to go "poof" and disappear. Companies will reformulate as they've done over the years to adapt. As far as icing, again, I don't see what the big deal is. Crisco has been 0 trans fat for years and people like Indydebi were still able to use it in their icings. I remember her saying that she didn't even notice when Crisco went trans fat free. I have only used a bit of Crisco in my icing when the cake was sitting outside all day in 98 degree weather. I use all butter so I'm not worried about it.
What's amusing to me is all this hoopla about trans fats when people are still shoveling refined sugars and flours into their faces, but because it's "trans fat free" it's healthy. That makes me LOL hard.
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