those who are not lawyers shouldn't be giving legal opinions. and those who are licensed lawyers know the dangers of offering up unsolicited legal advice.
The OP's query was about the personal ethics of using plastic figures, not an inquiry about the legalities of copyrights and corporate imagery.
I used to think I wouldn't use anything on a cake that I didn't personally make with my own chubby little fingers. But then I had several people asked for "souvenirs" on their cake that they could keep....particularly to remember the occasion. Sugar paste figures last but not long if exposed to heat, humidity or dust.
I'm making a fishing themed cake this month and I've made the Adirondack chair out of pastillage but I'm using a tiny wooden fishing rod ...the wife wants hubby to keep it on his desk long after the party ends! My ethical conscious is clear and everyone is happy...and isn't that what cakery is all about?
I don't have a problem with people simply pointing out the potential legalities of an issue, even when it's irrelevant information...it is frustrating though that some people just can't seem to leave it at that...they have to hang around to 'defend their position' and insist on having the last word all the time, blowing the thread out into a debate. It's really no wonder that people are SO weary of hearing about these issues.
I'd ask my son what he wanted: a figure he can eat or a figure he can keep.
Some kids get a real charge out of being able to consume the figures. Some like to have keepsakes.
Rae
To answer the original question I would go ahead and use plastic figures for all of the above stated reasons.
After reading all of the posts though I have another question about infringement etc. etc. Does this mean that ANY cake with ANY recognizable figure (sonic the hedgehog, superheros, dora, alice in wonderland...etc) are subject to copyright laws? I've seen hundreds of cakes and cake pics that have these figures (and I've done them myself) so are we all in the wrong? Really? I had no idea really, what about all the purse cakes that are Coach, etc etc? Can anyone help clarify? Thanks so much!
It's illegal to break the speed limit while driving but most people still do it and when you get caught you pay your fine and move on...if you get caught with copyright infringement, pay your fine and move on. If you take a risk you have to be prepared for the consequences... Such as life.
but I'm sure it's annoying if you're actually looking for a straight answer though.
YES. Yes, it REALLY is.
Does this mean that ANY cake with ANY recognizable figure (sonic the hedgehog, superheros, dora, alice in wonderland...etc) are subject to copyright laws? I've seen hundreds of cakes and cake pics that have these figures (and I've done them myself) so are we all in the wrong? Really? I had no idea really, what about all the purse cakes that are Coach, etc etc? Can anyone help clarify? Thanks so much!
Any original work created by someone else -- a cartoon character, a logo, a specific product design (like a Coach purse), etc. -- is automatically protected by copyright, and if you copy their work without permission you are infringing on their copyright. Penalties are typically more severe if the copy is used to make a profit, but any unauthorized copy of copyrighted material is infringement. Many pictures of cakes with copyrighted characters are examples of infringement, but they are legal if they are made with licensed decorating kits.
In reality this is rarely enforced, but more companies are appearing every day that specialize in searching the internet for copyright violations and extracting money from infringers. If you are careful about not posting pictures of cakes with copyrighted characters the risk of getting caught is virtually nonexistent. The risk increases if you post a picture on a site like CC and do not link your account to your identity, while the greatest risk is posting pictures of said cakes on your facebook account or your business's web site.
Another note is that statutory fines are per violation, and IIRC are a minimum of $750 per infringement if the case goes to trial, this would probably affect the settlement offered. Plus after a certain number of violations criminal penalties kick in. This was used several years ago to go after people who downloaded music illegally -- each song downloaded is a separate violation, so defendants were facing millions of dollars in minimum fines, and of course they quickly settled.
BTW liability insurance typically protects against copyright infringement cases, but it's probably a one-shot deal since I doubt they would keep insuring a client who continues to infringe after they were caught once.
Of course this is not legal advice and I'm not a lawyer, it's my opinion based upon my knowledge of IP law. The relevant chapter of US copyright law is linked again below for your reference.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html
And what I ment by not cheating was to put the little plastic toys on top. I ment not cheating with your time in being elaborate on a cake by using T.M. design working to get it exact when a toy will work just as well.. kids like toys better than having their be the trade mark design on a cake course I could be wrong to.
Thanks all. I'm not too worried about being sued for copyright issues but I guess it's good to have the information out there if people need it.
I think I've raised cake snobs. Sigh. My daughter has kept all of the gumpaste figures I've made for her. Maybe I'll just paint the characters onto gumpaste. They'll be 2D but at least I'll be able to make them ahead of time and not feel like I'm cheating.
You have got to be kidding me. This has become absurd. <taking a deep breath, getting out the soapbox>
Any original work created by someone else -- a cartoon character, a logo, a specific product design (like a Coach purse), etc. -- is automatically protected by copyright, and if you copy their work without permission you are infringing on their copyright. Penalties are typically more severe if the copy is used to make a profit, but any unauthorized copy of copyrighted material is infringement.
Which means we'd all better take away our kids' crayons and fingerpaints lest they (OMG!) create a Tinkerbell or Batman masterpiece before we've gotten permission. Good gracious! I'd better go out and warn all my friends!
And maybe we should cancel Halloween too, while we're at it. All those homemade, unauthorized character costumes! A copyright infringement GOLD MINE!
Many pictures of cakes with copyrighted characters are examples of infringement, but they are legal if they are made with licensed decorating kits.
This is not even necessarily true. The Decopac commercial decorating kits have specific color and arrangement requirements, from what I understand. Maybe we should just stick to character cupcake picks from Wal-Mart, just to be on the safe side.
You said it yourself:
In reality this is rarely enforced,
H-yeah! So WHY even bring it up? It's like running around "warning" everyone to always walk with an open umbrella, because a bird might poop on their head at any time. Indoors, too! I've seen birds in Sam's Club and Home Depot. Everyone must be made aware of the RISK, right?
I mean, really. These companies can generally tell the difference between someone making a cake for their kid's birthday, and someone trying to make a buck. But we should warn all our friends anyway, lest they become the unfortunate example who gets led away from Chuck E. Cheese in handcuffs over a lovingly made Disney princess cake.
but more companies are appearing every day that specialize in searching the internet for copyright violations and extracting money from infringers.
Yeah. So? Oh, wait. Maybe that means they'll be sending out their trenchcoat-wearing henchmen on Halloween soon, too!
If you are careful about not posting pictures of cakes with copyrighted characters the risk of getting caught is virtually nonexistent. The risk increases if you post a picture on a site like CC and do not link your account to your identity, while the greatest risk is posting pictures of said cakes on your facebook account or your business's web site.
Again, companies can generally tell the difference. Even on Facebook. But a business website? Well, DUH!
Another note is that statutory fines are per violation, and IIRC are a minimum of $750 per infringement if the case goes to trial, this would probably affect the settlement offered. Plus after a certain number of violations criminal penalties kick in. This was used several years ago to go after people who downloaded music illegally -- each song downloaded is a separate violation, so defendants were facing millions of dollars in minimum fines, and of course they quickly settled.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Please forgive my frankness, but I'm divorcing a lawyer and have very little patience left for this sort of blather. To make a long story short, you're saying that if I have 8 kids and make "illegal" birthday cakes for each one, I get more fines. And then I get led away to jail in handcuffs for the last one.
BTW liability insurance typically protects against copyright infringement cases, but it's probably a one-shot deal since I doubt they would keep insuring a client who continues to infringe after they were caught once.
Oh yeah, let me run right out and get a policy. And I'll be sure to get a rider on my kids' fingerpaintings, too. Hey, maybe if all of us moms band together, we can get a group rate, too!
Of course this is not legal advice and I'm not a lawyer, it's my opinion based upon my knowledge of IP law. The relevant chapter of US copyright law is linked again below for your reference.
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html
It's not? You're not? Then what makes you qualified to say that's the only "relevant" chapter? For all we know, case law might contradict it.
But more importantly, HOW is this relevant to the original post? She posted a question in a CAKE DECORATING forum about decorating a birthday cake for her CHILD. If you have cake decorating advice, please give it. Otherwise, please post your opinions in a separate, appropriate thread. Because even though you say you're not giving legal advice, you are. And we don't want (and probably don't need) to hear it.
It became tiresome enough to open threads with wedding cake technique questions only to find the OP being grilled and/or scolded about being a legal business. But now it's moving on to threads with moms making cakes for their kids? To make mothers worry about posting pictures of their kids' cakes on their Facebook pages? Causing anxiety for moms over their kids' cakes over such a remote possibility... Enough is enough, already!
We are CAKE DECORATORS on a cake decorating forum. Please let it stay that way. It is not strictly a cake business forum. Not everyone on CC has a business, nor does everyone want one. Those who do post in the business forum. So to interrupt and completely hijack a cake decorating thread with an issue that has about as much chance of happening as a bird pooping on your head is ridiculous and uncalled for. Perhaps if a legal debate forum was started, you might find a more welcoming audience there.
<stepping down from soapbox>
UGH. Now I'm feeling bad for wasting everyone's time continuing all this drivel. My apologies to all. I'm sick of reading about it, too!
SugarFiend- Amen Sista! I am new and haven't posted much and truthfully, almost afraid to. I agree, answer the questions and leave your unsolicited advice at the door. We have seen the legality issues over and over, and if I want to bake illegally and sell copywritten cakes illegaly that is my crux to bare and my consequences to deal with it. If I ask a questions about legal stuff than fine, if not......and you can't answer the question straight forward....don't answer!
IMO - it's not cheating. I know there are things I can do and things I can't. Accurately sculpting a figure is not part of my skill set yet. So regardless of copyright issues, etc, I would buy the figure, save myself hours of work and eat cake!
Right now while my kids are young enough to not care I will go ahead and make the figures for practice. I typically use modeling chocolate so I can make them pretty well in advance, and when I'm in the mood. But I also have no problem buying the action figures if someone prefers.
No. You shouldn't use plastic figures. Ever. I can't tell you how many times I've had a 4-yo pitch a fit because the figures on his cake weren't painstakingly hand-crafted out of gumpaste. And how about those little rascals who demand to know whether their birthday cake is a mix or from scratch? Whoa! THAT'S embarrassing!
No. You shouldn't use plastic figures. Ever. I can't tell you how many times I've had a 4-yo pitch a fit because the figures on his cake weren't painstakingly hand-crafted out of gumpaste. And how about those little rascals who demand to know whether their birthday cake is a mix or from scratch? Whoa! THAT'S embarrassing!
LOL!!!!
@SugarFiend: I was directly responding to sweetviolet's question about what is subject to copyright law. I agree with the original intent of copyright law but I also agree that the scope, term of protection, and application of the law has begun to venture into the absurd. But that's more of a tort reform issue than anything else.
Also I never said 92:17:5 was the only relevant chapter of US law, but since it outlines what copyright infringement is and what the remedies are it directly applies here. It's certainly possible that case law would bring in other facets of the issue but I did not do an exhaustive search for the purposes of this thread.
As I said, infringement against individuals is rarely enforced so you shouldn't stay awake at night worrying about it, but at the same time it is important to know what the law is (especially if you run a business) in order to avoid taking unnecessary risks. I sure wish someone had told me this information back when I started my business.
Accidentally split this thread.
It continues here:
http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-723899-.html
Quote by @%username% on %date%
%body%