I'm sorry, but I am SO tired of the "selling cakes is the same as selling pot, or prostitution, or murder, or every other illegal activity" argument. No, it's not. There's a difference between illegal and immoral. Selling cakes may be illegal where you live, but it's not immoral (unless you spike it with rat poison or something). Prostitution is legal in some places, but it is never moral.
And before you argue that selling a cake illegally is immoral because breaking the law is immoral...yes, I get that. But in discussing morality, I consider them to be two separate acts: selling a cake is not immoral, breaking the law is.
I'm sorry, but I am SO tired of the "selling cakes is the same as selling pot, or prostitution, or murder, or every other illegal activity" argument. No, it's not. There's a difference between illegal and immoral. Selling cakes may be illegal where you live, but it's not immoral (unless you spike it with rat poison or something). Prostitution is legal in some places, but it is never moral.
And before you argue that selling a cake illegally is immoral because breaking the law is immoral...yes, I get that. But in discussing morality, I consider them to be two separate acts: selling a cake is not immoral, breaking the law is.
Okay, let me ask you this................. can you be a part time Christian?
Lets let the whole Morality on what people do other the bake cakes go, there will be different views on that as well *eye roll*
bottom line is, is this is the cake business forum. You don't go on an insurance site and ask if you can get away with no insurance. You don't go on a how to be a cop forum and ask if you can still steal cars.
Lets use some common sense
selling a cake is not immoral, breaking the law is.
selling a cake without the proper licensing is illegal, ergo it is breaking the law.
*I'M* tired of people trying to justify breaking the law by pointing out how "its just CAKE!"
selling a cake is not immoral, breaking the law is.
selling a cake without the proper licensing is illegal, ergo it is breaking the law.
*I'M* tired of people trying to justify breaking the law by pointing out how "its just CAKE!"
THANK YOU!
Lives arnt destroyed by cakes as they are by illicit drugs, murder and other serious crimes. Being the daughter of someone whos life WAS destroyed by drugs, I find it to be in extreme bad taste that you can compare these to activities to one another. Yes they are both illegal, but they are not at the same level so to speak. You are not going to get 25-life for selling a cake.
This is a touchy subject, Im fully aware of that, everybody has their opinions to give and are hell bent on having people see it their way. The best you can do is give your opinion and advice, if someone chooses not to follow that advice, for whatever reason, financial etc, then that is their decision. We are not in the shoes, as much as we like to think we do, we do not know the restraints they have. You can breathe easy for giving your advice, whether they have taken it or not.
noahsmummy, I'm genuinely sorry to hear of your experience.
So that people won't think I'm talking from somewhere of which I know nothing of ...... I have a left arm that is shorter than the right; I can't stretch it out straight (if I can't reach the top shelf wiht my left arm, I can usually reach it with my right), and it has a big 6-8" scar on it from when I was a passenger in a car wreck at the age of 16 that involved pot smoking. I look at a constant reminder every single day of what can and does happen.
On the positive side, my children grew up with a physical reminder of what can happen; I volunteered to be the "visual aid" for the sheriff's dept D.A.R.E. (anti-drug) program; and in spite of this huge scar, I won a beauty pageant at the age of 32 wearing a spaghetti strap dress! 
And when my children got their driver's license, I handed them the keys with a speech about "My parents had to open the door one night to find the sheriff's dept standing there, telling them that TWO of their daughters were involved in a car wreck and were in the hospital. Don't EVER make me have to open that door." 
Some may think me flippant about this topic, but I probably take it way more serious than most.
I consider them to be two separate acts: selling a cake is not immoral, breaking the law is.
This is conditional. If you do it legally, you can sell a cake. If you are selling a cake illegally, then by your logic it is "immoral." So you can't separate the two.
selling a cake is not immoral, breaking the law is.
selling a cake without the proper licensing is illegal, ergo it is breaking the law.
*I'M* tired of people trying to justify breaking the law by pointing out how "its just CAKE!"
Yes, well said!
I think we are splitting hairs at this point. No one ever said "Making cakes is illegal." It's the whole making cakes to SELL without being licensed and paying your taxes thing that's the issue here. Debi was just trying to make a point that it is technically just as illegal to sell cakes without a license as selling pot, or whatever other illegal activity you can think of. Whether or not the item in question (cake or pot) is in and of itself illegal has no bearing.
To be honest, IMO selling cakes illegally is worse than selling pot. At least with pot, if you choose to buy it, you know what to expect or have a general idea of the dangers. If you buy a cake from someone, you will naturally expect it to be safe, and if it isn't, your entire party will be subject to illness, completely unaware. Parties usually include children, elderly, and expecting mothers, whose immune systems are weak. Contrary to belief, the law was put in place to protect the general public, not to annoy or frustrate you.
And the "my kitchen is always spotless" routine is not valid either. You may have the cleanest kitchen on the block but who is to say your neighbor's kitchen isn't infested with roaches or covered in bacteria. If you can sell out of your uninspected kitchen, guess what, so can your neighbor.
Believe it or not, there are other types of jobs out there besides cake decorating. If you live in a state that does not license home kitchens and cannot find or afford a commercial kitchen to work from, then find another job until you can. I do not believe for one second that the only skill someone can have is baking cakes. I have lived in California for the past 5 years. California is a no-home-bake state. I spent this time in school preparing to open my business next month when we move to Virginia. I have never once sold cakes illegally. My husband is in the Navy. We sacrifice enough already and there is no way I would make my family take that risk.
This whole "I'm entitled to do cakes, whether it's illegal or not", just makes me sick. Anyone who acts this way is no better than the "entitled" bridezillas we constantly rant about..
To be honest, IMO selling cakes illegally is worse than selling pot. At least with pot, if you choose to buy it, you know what to expect or have a general idea of the dangers. If you buy a cake from someone, you will naturally expect it to be safe, and if it isn't, your entire party will be subject to illness, completely unaware. Parties usually include children, elderly, and expecting mothers, whose immune systems are weak. Contrary to belief, the law was put in place to protect the general public, not to annoy or frustrate you.
And the "my kitchen is always spotless" routine is not valid either. You may have the cleanest kitchen on the block but who is to say your neighbor's kitchen isn't infested with roaches or covered in bacteria. If you can sell out of your uninspected kitchen, guess what, so can your neighbor.
Believe it or not, there are other types of jobs out there besides cake decorating. If you live in a state that does not license home kitchens and cannot find or afford a commercial kitchen to work from, then find another job until you can. I do not believe for one second that the only skill someone can have is baking cakes. I have lived in California for the past 5 years. California is a no-home-bake state. I spent this time in school preparing to open my business next month when we move to Virginia. I have never once sold cakes illegally. My husband is in the Navy. We sacrifice enough already and there is no way I would make my family take that risk.
This whole "I'm entitled to do cakes, whether it's illegal or not", just makes me sick. Anyone who acts this way is no better than the "entitled" bridezillas we constantly rant about..
Bravo
[quote="retaunton"]
To be honest, IMO selling cakes illegally is worse than selling pot. At least with pot, if you choose to buy it, you know what to expect or have a general idea of the dangers. If you buy a cake from someone, you will naturally expect it to be safe, and if it isn't, your entire party will be subject to illness, completely unaware. Parties usually include children, elderly, and expecting mothers, whose immune systems are weak. Contrary to belief, the law was put in place to protect the general public, not to annoy or frustrate you.
. We sacrifice enough already and there is no way I would make my family take that risk.
This whole "I'm entitled to do cakes, whether it's illegal or not", just makes
Bravo
I have had enough about hearing that it's just as bad to sell cakes as it it to sell drugs on this thread.If you or anyone else understood that pot seller, drug dealer, cocaine /heroin pusher, that sells drugs to any and all children regardless of age and expectant mothers and grandmothers, lets not forget the fathers and brothers that are so strung out and can't function without more and the drug dealer not caring if they crawled in a hole for a week etc..you are so far in your la la land to thinking it is the same thing. I think you need to get out into the streets of NY of Philli or any other inner city and get close and personal and tell me its the same thing. You should be ashamed of yourself. I agree about being legal, but everyone thinking it is the same thing, youre just totally in your own world! I would rather throw up from food poisoning than spend my night living in a box under a bridge, in a tent in the woods or in a rat infested house with a needle in my arm. Than worry so much about something you think is right or wrong and than having the audacity to think it isnt any different are you freaking kidding me? This comes from a personal aspect and I have seen the damages it causes. Shame on you to comparing/thinking it is the same!
How else do you know if you can be successful at this business if you don't test the waters. You don't decide over night that I like making cakes and I am going to open a shop. If I am not making money at it on the side then I definately won't be trying to invest all of my time and money opening a professional shop. I don't think anyone is trying to step on anyone's toes here, but it is what it is. Just because people say they like your cakes doesn't me you can be successful at it. I would think most people started out selling cakes to friends and family and word of mouth before they became who they are. I know if someone asks me to make a cake for them I am charging them for my time and ingredients. I don't by any means think that it is stealing, people have all types of talents and they don't have to be licensed to do them on the side. I think this all boils down to the laws, why is this illegal. If I know how to sew well, that's extra income for my family.
You "test the waters" by doing free baking for family and friends, fundraisers, charity dinners, etc. If the response is overwhelming, then you start looking into getting your kitchen inspected and your business licensed. If you can't run a home-based business in your state, then you can still do stuff for friends and family, but it is illegal to charge them for it. And you sure can't advertise if you're not legal, unless you want to get shut down. You can always go work part-time in a bakery and see how they run things, which may help you if you are serious about doing your own business.
I don't like the attitude on here either. It's illegal. End of story. There are plenty of other ways to earn legal income for your family. If you choose to take the risk, then that's something you have to live with. It's food we're dealing with here. It's something that can potentially kill someone. I don't know about you, but I'd be pissed if I were a "cake muggle" and found out I was getting ready to order a cake from an unlicensed and uninspected kitchen. And you'd better believe I'd report that person.
Any crime is one of moral turpitude.
False, there are many crimes that do not involve moral turpitude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude
I am testing the waters by selling at farmers markets and trade shows, the only place I CAN without a commercial kitchen.
Yes I could get away with selling things unser the radar,but why take a chance and possibly ruin the rep of my business before it even gets going?
I don't by any means think that it is stealing, people have all types of talents and they don't have to be licensed to do them on the side. I think this all boils down to the laws, why is this illegal. If I know how to sew well, that's extra income for my family.
If you have a talent, you should by all means pursue it, either as a hobby or a commercial activity. But if your talent involves manufacturing items for sale that will be ingested by large numbers of people, the government needs to know about it and they have to approve of what you're doing before you can legally sell your products.
On the other hand, sewing products for sale probably doesn't require government approval in the form of a specific license (unless your customers will be eating the clothes), although you would obviously still need to declare your income to the federal and state tax authorities.
I find it interesting how many people willingly admit in a public forum that they are breaking the law. I used to participate in a finance-related forum and several people were caught because they bragged about their illegal activities in the forum...the forum provider turned over identifying information for the offending user to the authorities (usually the IP address was enough, it can easily be cross-referenced with the customer's internet service provider to find a name and address).
Thanks for your reply, so it is ok to sell are farmers markets?
It varies from state to state. In some states, you can sell food made from home only at roadside stands or farmer's markets, in other states you can sell homemade food out of your house, and in other states you can't sell homemade food at all.
Contact your state or county dept of health (or whoever is responsible for food safety) for the details.
How else do you know if you can be successful at this business if you don't test the waters.
This is why you should do a business plan before opening a business, this is where you find out if you can be successfull and what you need to do to be successful at opening a business (it doesn't matter what kind of business it is)
I think this all boils down to the laws, why is this illegal. If I know how to sew well, that's extra income for my family.
You're confusing two different arguments here. It's not illegal to make money from a hobby. When you start doing food it's illegal to make it from a home kitchen in most places and this deals with the HEALTH DEPT. There isn't another government agency that you have to get a permit from to sew something and sell, you just have to report your income. With cakes you have to get a license from a health dept (or something similiar) to sell in most states. Then report your income on taxes.
Thanks for your reply, so it is ok to sell are farmers markets?
It varies from state to state. In some states, you can sell food made from home only at roadside stands or farmer's markets, in other states you can sell homemade food out of your house, and in other states you can't sell homemade food at all.
Contact your state or county dept of health (or whoever is responsible for food safety) for the details.
Yes please note I am in canada. It was just an example of how to put some thought into it, and that opening a store front was not the end all and be all!
To be honest, IMO selling cakes illegally is worse than selling pot.
I am quite happy you are not a law maker or a judge then. This comment truly shows how naive you are on the subject. what are the chances of someone dying or ruining their lives from a cake sold illegally? and then what are the chances of someone ruining their life or dying from drugs??
Comments about drugs, murder and other SERIOUS crimes should NOT be thrown around lightly.
As i said in my earlier post, this is a very firey subject and people have very strong opinions about these sorts of things, but comparing selling cakes to drugs is far too extreme. By your logic, you would almost be comparing selling cakes to sexual assault, as those crimes and some drug crimes will carry the same sort of penalties.
I also believe there is a rule about religion and politics on this site? i bite my tongue when it comes to politics, would ask that those who feel strongly about religion would follow the same terms.
To be honest, IMO selling cakes illegally is worse than selling pot.
I am quite happy you are not a law maker or a judge then. This comment truly shows how naive you are on the subject. what are the chances of someone dying or ruining their lives from a cake sold illegally? and then what are the chances of someone ruining their life or dying from drugs??
I don't necessarily agree with the quote you are responding to, but I believe it was looking at the issue from the perspective of knowledge of the law from the perspective of both the consumer and the proprietors.
When you sell cakes to a customer without obtaining a license or an inspection (in states where inspections are required), the customer may or may not be aware that they are purchasing food that was made in a kitchen without independent oversight. I'm sure most people who post here maintain a clean kitchen, but without third-party certification there is no way for a customer to know the state of the illegal bakery's kitchen without taking the word of the proprietor. Based on what I've seen here, there are also many proprietors out there who are unaware of the law and are putting themselves at great financial risk from potential exposure to liability and fines.
When you sell illegal drugs, the customer is most definitely aware of what they are getting into, and they know they are purchasing from someone operating outside the law.
That said, this comparison is orthogonal at best, as both situations have very different sets of consequences and are not directly comparable -- the main thing is common is that both activities involve exposing yourself to unnecessary risk.
If you are not legal, what else are you not following? Are you listing your ingredients? Are you cleaning your supplies properly?
Selling cakes does in fact have the potential to be fatal.
If you are not legal, what else are you not following? Are you listing your ingredients? Are you cleaning your supplies properly?
Selling cakes does in fact have the potential to be fatal.
I was thinking of the bride whose mother called me and said "She told you that I'm allergic to nuts, right?" Well, no, she hadn't told me that. So yes, cake can be fatal. It's unlikely, but with the number of allergies on the increase you have to be careful. I have a contract that covers this kind of thing, but I probably wouldn't have a contract that was binding if I was operating illegally.
Now if I was selling cakes on the side without a license and made a cake that sent someone into anaphylactic shock, it's much more likely that I'd be in BIG trouble in terms of insurance and liability if they decided to sue me. With an LLC you have more legal protection, and you run much less of a risk of financial loss. My contract would also be something that I could take with me into court, but I don't know that a contract for an illegal business would be something that would make a bit of difference. It might, I don't know.
Again, if you want to operate illegally go ahead and have at it, but if you suffer any consequences because of it don't whine, you brought it on yourself due to the risk that you consciously decided to accept.
Let's see... 8 pages in on one of the hottest topic threads - AGAIN - and the OP (who has a total of 1 post) is nowhere to be found.
Feels a little like we've been punk'd. Again. Anyone else think that someone just likes to stir the pot a little? 
Let's see... 8 pages in on one of the hottest topic threads - AGAIN - and the OP (who has a total of 1 post) is nowhere to be found.
Feels a little like we've been punk'd. Again. Anyone else think that someone just likes to stir the pot a little?
Could be cathy.... but now I think its more geared to the ones defending it.
Maybe we scared some common sense into the OP lol
Let's see... 8 pages in on one of the hottest topic threads - AGAIN - and the OP (who has a total of 1 post) is nowhere to be found.
Feels a little like we've been punk'd. Again. Anyone else think that someone just likes to stir the pot a little?
Could be cathy.... but now I think its more geared to the ones defending it.
Maybe we scared some common sense into the OP lol
She did respond a few itmes to different things, so I don't think it's a punking, hahaha! This theme will turn up again, and we'll be accused of being meany bo-beeny old dream crushers again too. 
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