Shortening Can Be Troublesome & Controversial

Decorating By chubbyalaskagriz Updated 12 Aug 2010 , 9:55pm by Rose_N_Crantz

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chrissypie Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 11:32pm
post #121 of 146

.

I have made a nice lucritive business for myself with my doctored recipes and shortening based icings, and guess what? I ain't cheap. People pay a good buck for my cakes. Cuz they look good and they taste great! And I am frequently told they are better in taste and looks then the high end bakeries and hotels.

.[/quote]

Darn tootin' Sharon, your cakes are amaaaaaazing!

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cutthecake Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 11:33pm
post #122 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbark

Maybe we could just call it icing or frosting?





That opens up another can of worms. What is the distinction between icing and frosting? Are the terms interchangeable? They are both verbs and nouns.
"I am icing the cake with icing." "I am frosting the cake with frosting."

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sugarshack Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 11:34pm
post #123 of 146

Actually the OP was very kind and respectufl and asked questions in a polite way. All the responses to directed to him/her were very polite in return. It was when a 3rd party joined the group, who was very nasty and degrading to the shortening people; that is when it got ugly, and who the "ugly" posts were directed to, not the OP.

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Larkin121 Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 11:57pm
post #124 of 146

I do wonder how many people just don't know there are other icings. I use SMBC and whenever somebody new has it they exclaim that they just LOVE how it's not so sweet and what is in this buttercream because it's so good? Almost everyone I know has never had anything but a powdered sugar based icing.

For me it's not even a crisco vs butter issue regarding American Buttercream - the powdered sugar makes is soooo sweet. But that's just my opinion.

I teach Wilton classes and every single time I teach a new class about half ask me if there are buttercreams that aren't so sweet.

If your customers love your icing, that's all that matters, though.

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dillpicklebetty Posted 10 Aug 2010 , 11:57pm
post #125 of 146

Chef Kevin where are you are you reading this drivil? Maureen was right you'd be openin' a huge can of unwanted worms by steppin' into a pit of female vipers! AInt hardly a one in the bunch got it figgered out and if ya think I need the advice of this bunch if I didnt know better Id think u were drinkin' or sumthing!

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mamawrobin Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 12:11am
post #126 of 146

[quote="Larkin121"]I do wonder how many people just don't know there are other icings. I use SMBC and whenever somebody new has it they exclaim that they just LOVE how it's not so sweet and what is in this buttercream because it's so good? Almost everyone I know has never had anything but a powdered sugar based icing.


ALL of our customers have know that there are "other icings" they just prefer our shortening based buttercreams. For our tastings we always offer SMBC and no one ever chooses it. I love it but most of the people that I've had to try it aren't impressed with it.

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PiccoloChellie Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 12:22am
post #127 of 146

Drivebys and sockpuppets and trolls, oh my!

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mamawrobin Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 1:02am
post #128 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiccoloChellie

Drivebys and sockpuppets and trolls, oh my!




icon_lol.gifthumbs_up.gif

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cheriej Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 2:04am
post #129 of 146

Ok, just have to say that is the first time in my lifetime that I have read that anyone who could use the term drivil (spelled correctly drivel) or who even knew what that meant, used it in a paragraph with terms like "aint" and "nothin".

If you are going to be a "poseur" and I will assume you understand that term, then at least play the part honey! icon_smile.gif

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sugarshack Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 2:47am
post #130 of 146

I think this is my first time actually being part of a hot conterversial thread! How exciting!!!

icon_eek.gificon_evil.gificon_biggrin.gif

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madgeowens Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 2:52am
post #131 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarshack

I think this is my first time actually being part of a hot conterversial thread! How exciting!!!

icon_eek.gificon_evil.gificon_biggrin.gif





LOL Sharon hahaha...............I am just glad I am not the one being bitched at haha

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3GCakes Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 3:24am
post #132 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillpicklebetty

Quote:
Originally Posted by dillpicklebetty

...pit of female vipers!...




Does that make them snake cakers?

Or cakin' snakes?

Or snack cake snakes?

Or cake-o-snakers?

Or the Crisco-creamin'-snake-cakin-viper-mamma-jammas?

Or does it just make you, Ms. Betty, kinda like the Steve Irwin of Cake Central?

Don't matter....it'll all be a realit tv series someday. thumbs_up.gif

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sugarshack Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 3:33am
post #133 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillpicklebetty

Quote:
Originally Posted by dillpicklebetty

...pit of female vipers!...





I don't think Doug would appreciate that. icon_surprised.gif

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BlakesCakes Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 3:39am
post #134 of 146

I usually make icing/frosting (seems to be a regional thing) using half butter + half hi ratio shortening AND CREAM...............I CREAM the butter and the shortening together and later on add the heavy whipping CREAM...........so........

I AM making BUTTER....CREAM icon_razz.gif and it's not overly sweet icon_lol.gif

hisssssssssssss~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:>,

Rae

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cupcake_cutie Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 3:42am
post #135 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarshack

I think this is my first time actually being part of a hot conterversial thread! How exciting!!!

icon_eek.gificon_evil.gificon_biggrin.gif



icon_lol.gif

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chubbyalaskagriz Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 7:01am
post #136 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel5370

To the OP-
I am "transitioning" from chef to cake decorator and I get what you're saying. There was no shortening in culinary school. I will be opening my shop soon and I hope not to use shortening in my icing or anything else. Chefs are trained from a "European" perspective and shortening is an American thing. But, I do live in America! I see that there are merits to using shortening and maybe that's what the general American population prefers. I use SMBC- and people love it. They say it's fluffy and not overly sweet. I will do whatever the customers like, but so far they like what I do now.




Rachel5370 and Sugar Shack and many others- thanks for your kind neighborliness! icon_smile.gif

Hi Friends- (dare I even step into the room?) I'm back at my desk & computer after my "weekend" off work. When I placed my original post here Sunday Morning I almost suspected the topic I offered would end up being a poorly-received dud. But imagine my nice surprise at checking back in tonight to see the many great responses to my post! Well- er... kind of nice, that is.

When posting, I intended to choose well thought-out words explaining my particular predicament and my lack of experience in the matter... but perhaps the words weren't well thought-out at all. Never intended for anyone to take offense or get personally miffed. I knew I was introducing a topic of controversy but I thought the careful way I worded my difficulty would result in some empathy for the predicament, not stir-up insult and conflict.

If they are required- I extend my apologies. Heck- if they're required I'll even extend apologies for unkind baits posted by others(!). That said...

A gentle reminder that I hope I make plain- pastry/cake decorating is not my primary forte- it is at best, a side-step to that which I've done all my life- cook in fussy kitchens and lead cooking teams. So I come to you- the experts.

More details of the situation: A dear friend and former employee, Betty, is finally after many years leaving Alaska and opening her own tiny cafe and bakery back in her hometown. Her place will be a lovely l'il diner-style "joint"- if you will... but she wants the bakery-side of the place to offer the type of high-end desserts she made when she worked for me in pricey fine-dining. I want to support her dream, but at the same time I am trying to convince her that the fancy stuff might be out of place in her casual, homey diner environment. I am trying to convince her that great recipes for simpler home-style baked items when done well are more than suitable and even better than the stuffy foo-foo fare in many regions, and could result in a bigger following for her. But she's reluctant to avert her focus from offering the upper-crust fancy stuff.

And when it comes to decorated cakes, I'm trying to convince her that the finicky ganaches, fondants, rozenns, nougatines, mousses and glycee's might just be added/wasted work for herself and might not be received well for the client-base she seeks to cater to. She says "No"... that she thinks she would create more of a following if she embarked on the "unique", and left Crisco-frosting and other usual items to others. But I am trying to convince her otherwise.

And so I came here sharing bits of the situation- when I guess maybe my query would have been received better had I shared more; knowing you all possess a wealth of varied and extensive wisdom/history- and hoping for the charity of some very useful info from the community here. In fact- this is the first place I thought to come... and I even highly recommended that my friend come here herself to take part in the knowledge (and she did- "dillpicklebetty").

Most of you offered it- graciously- and I thank you for it. Very much! The kind sharing of your expertise is highly valued and appreciated. And I extend a humble head down to any who took offense to the wording of my initial reach-out. icon_smile.gif

(Betty- Ive been poking around and observing here a year- please take a looksie at things w/ fresh eyes, dear... there is a wealth of fantastic info and even what has always appeared to be wonderful spirits if you just tuck away that stubborn pride and forget about this mishap w/ me. I urge you to re-kindle things and use this place as a valuable resource! smiles & a wink- chef k.)
LL

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sugarshack Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 7:22am
post #137 of 146

Chubby, as I stated earlier, I don't think anyone took offense to your original post. It was written respectfully, and to me, with a tone, that you were really trying to gather information. And I don't think you offended anyone.... it was cakeprof and picklebetty that did.

If you can read through all the fighting, hopefully you got some answers you were looking for. I very much appreciate your last post, and your humble and gracious attitude. And apologies to you as well if we took your thread down an ugly road.

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costumeczar Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 11:40am
post #138 of 146

[quote="mamawrobin"]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larkin121

I do wonder how many people just don't know there are other icings. I use SMBC and whenever somebody new has it they exclaim that they just LOVE how it's not so sweet and what is in this buttercream because it's so good? Almost everyone I know has never had anything but a powdered sugar based icing.


ALL of our customers have know that there are "other icings" they just prefer our shortening based buttercreams. For our tastings we always offer SMBC and no one ever chooses it. I love it but most of the people that I've had to try it aren't impressed with it.




I haven't been reading this thread becasue I knew what would happen...The criscocreme users would get all huffy and the butter-based icing users would have to play defense. Yep.

I offer both, because food is personal preference. I prefer the IMBC myself, but some people like the sweeter. I never use an all-shortening buttercream because the icings with butter in it have a better mouthfeel, in my opinion.

I agree with Larkin, though, that most of my clients have never had icings that DON'T have shortening. It's what they're used to, but most of them prefer the IMBC when given a taste of it. From what I've seen, it's a matter of people not knowing that there are options out there, and being used to all-shortening icing from the supermarket. If that's all you've ever had, that's all you think is the standard.

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costumeczar Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 11:43am
post #139 of 146

To the OP-- There are people on here who want to blame any thread that turns slightly controversial on "unseen evil members" who apparently hang out with the space aliens and come to earth to post here just to make people mad. Don't sweat it.

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dillpicklebetty Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 11:19pm
post #140 of 146

Chek k. I think your being far too nice with some ov'em. But your your own man. Thats why you make the big bucks! icon_eek.gif

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mamakasst Posted 11 Aug 2010 , 11:37pm
post #141 of 146

The only time I've ever had someone ask me what was in my frosting was when the person getting the cake was lactose intolerant. In that case you can't use the butter-based icing. I told her that the recipe that I have been using didn't have any butter, that it was all shortening based. They were completely fine with it and loved the cake.

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7yyrt Posted 12 Aug 2010 , 12:05am
post #142 of 146

I would think that your friend would do better matching the desserts to the food, at least to begin with.
Have the down-home style desserts as, say 2/3 and the more up-scale ones at about 1/3 and see how they sell. It's then an easy matter to shift focus to the more profitable item style.

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cakeprof Posted 12 Aug 2010 , 7:48pm
post #143 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarshack

Chubby, as I stated earlier, I don't think anyone took offense to your original post. It was written respectfully, and to me, with a tone, that you were really trying to gather information. And I don't think you offended anyone.... it was cakeprof and picklebetty that did.

If you can read through all the fighting, hopefully you got some answers you were looking for. I very much appreciate your last post, and your humble and gracious attitude. And apologies to you as well if we took your thread down an ugly road.





Too each their own, I simply posted about why I think comparisons across different icing are problematic. I never said anyone who uses shortening based buttercreams are second class citizens (you dear made that claim of inferiority), I never said they were not good (in fact I gave Indydebi props for a tasty icing which I have used), in fact I never said as a general rule they are better. All I said was I think the comparisons that are made are not equal to each other--god forbid someone has a position that differs with those who believe otherwise.

Did I get aggressive in a subsequent post--you bet. Because instead of a cordial reply to reasoned position I get a you are making my head hurt snide reply couched with an air of superiority. Disagree all you want but don't you dare attempt to dismiss with an insult and backhanded slap and then expect I am going to play nice.

But hey lets not look at our own practice for how it contributes to the escalation of a conversation (playing the victim when no one is calling you inferior, using backhanded snide comments)--no much easier just to blame someone else.

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Loucinda Posted 12 Aug 2010 , 7:55pm
post #144 of 146

Some of the previous posts sound like posts that used to be made by folks that aren't here anymore? Maybe they're back again.....just a thought.

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MissSassyBuns Posted 12 Aug 2010 , 9:46pm
post #145 of 146

I used to be the butter snob when it came to buttercreams and in fact was a bit of an anti-American buttercream (all butter, 50/50, or all shortening) once I had discovered SMBC (thank you Toba Garrett!) and IMBC. In fact, I had posted my opinion once or twice when I first joined.

But I can tell you that I have been convinced otherwise! Due to the BEAUTIFUL cakes that are made with the crusting buttercream (shortening or not) and the rave reviews for IndyDebi and Sugarshack's icings, I decided to take off my snob hat and try a shortening based icing and guess what? I LOVED IT! icon_eek.gif It happened to be the wedding cream cheese frosting (or something like that) on this site and I used International Delights Buttercream flavored coffee creamer, but lemme just tell ya, I am no longer a snob! (welllllll, not a TOTAL snob anyways, I'm still a snob about my own cakes/icings/desserts/chicken tettrazini!)

I consider myself a lover of all icings. If done correctly, it's tres delish! thumbs_up.gif

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Rose_N_Crantz Posted 12 Aug 2010 , 9:55pm
post #146 of 146

Just thought I would share my new insight on the matter. I just made my first batch of whimsical bakehouse buttercream with hi ratio. It was my first time working with hi ratio too.

WOW!!!!! SOOOOO yummy! Not gritty! And now I totally understand what people were meaning when they talked about the "chapstick" feeling in their mouth with crisco buttercream. And even though the recipe did call for butter, it came out very white. Maybe because there was very little butter to shortening. I gave some to my bro to try and he said it reminded him of old school frosting. I think I found my go to frosting! It's gonna go on a chocolate cake with cookies and cream filling this weekend. Can't wait!!!

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