As someone who worked at a bank and had to go testify at one of these types of things. YES the bank can take action. Thankfully the girl was wanted on other things too and plead guilty so I didn't have to testify when I got to the courthouse.
In the case you are talking about did the bank "make the payment" or were the funds never transferred from the check writer to the payee? If the bank had in fact made the payment to the payee, they (the bank) becomes the victim not the person to whom the check was written. If the bank demanded repayment from the person to whom the funds were given, and that person refunded the money to the bank, the person to whom the check had been written becomes the victim.
Based on what you're saying here compared to what you said before - you are contradicting yourself...I'm confused. The bank doesn't "pay" anyone...they withdraw funds from the account it's been written from - the victim is always the payee...never the bank. With that said - that doesn't mean they can't go after the customer who committed fraud. They have an obligation to do so based on the federal fraud laws. Think of it as the bank being the middle-man enforcing the banking laws.
A check is a contract to pay the amount of money it's made out for. If you knowingly write a check that you have no intention of paying, that is fraud. End of story...The bank is involved because it was their customer, not because it was their money.
A bank will take the money back from your account whether you have the money in there or not. Yes, the account is then negative if the funds weren't available to take back but it's the victim's debt at that point. The bank owns none of the money in any of these accounts so I do not see how the bank can ever be a victim unless they have loaned money and the loan is in default.
hmmmm
I do believe that we are agreeing on the same thing. The bank can only be a victim if they have a monetary loss. Otherwise it is between the person who did the stop payment and the person who was suppose to receive the payment. If you write a check that has sufficient funds to cover there can not be a "check fraud". If you then stop payment, still with sufficient funds available, you have just comitted a fraud on the person who you owe the money to. If you write a check from an account that does not have sufficient funds available you have once again comitted a fraud toward the person you owe. If you have written a check without sufficient funds available and your bank made payment to the payee, you have just comitted a fraud (in most states what is called writing a bad check) against the bank. If the bank is unable to retrieve the funds from the payee, the bank certainly will go after the check writer.
Okay I need an update: Last I heard the venue lady was going to get some Walmart sheetcakes for the wedding. The wedding was last night (right?) so I'm wondering what happened?
DSEVANS, where are you? Anything new this afternoon?
Was today her friend's wedding with cake #2?
Okay I need an update: Last I heard the venue lady was going to get some Walmart sheetcakes for the wedding. The wedding was last night (right?) so I'm wondering what happened?
No updates yet bob. The OP is supposed to go the venue today and take some of the cake with her to give to the venue rep and other employees there. Hopefully they'll give her all the juicy tidbits......
......
I am taking the largest teir to the venue rep tomorrow for them to eat and then the rest is going to our churchs easter picnic on sunday
Okay gotta get back to work on my friends cake for tomorrow ...which she paid in full for three months ago!
Yes, today was her friend's wedding with cake #2! I hope she is having a great time and relaxing with a bottle of champagne! After all of this, she deserves some girl time with her friends! Let's all back off a bit and give her some time to rest! I'm sure she'll check back in after she chats with her buddy at the venue where this fiasco wedding happened!
You know....this is pretty sad isn't it? LOL We are waiting on pins and needles for more "cake gossip" and I bet we all have Easter things to be accomplished don't we? LOL
Well, I for one have MY Easter cake complete to the point of finishing touches tomorrow because, well, I can't make small cakes and this one BARELY fits in the frig! LOL
Waiting on DSEVANS! Where is our fix? LOL
Beth in KY
WOW......35 pages..I just found this a while ago.......it truly amazes me that they are people out there that pull this kind of stuff AND think it's okay to do so...I'm with the others.....KARMA!!! Can't wait to hear what the venue folks have to say.
DSEVANS!!! Kudos for your professionalism and sticking to your guns! Way to go!!!
DSEVANS, where are you? Anything new this afternoon?
Was today her friend's wedding with cake #2?
Forgot about that.
Sorry have been fighting with cake #2 all day...fondant just doesn't want to work right...think half because of humidity and half because I have been aggitated but too busy to quit working< I did bring my friends cake home with me though to finsih since I am leaving early in the am to drive an hour with it and help finsih setting up for her wedding.......
Thanks. I couldn't find that comment.
I'm at work at the accountant's office again. Work is such an intrusion!
Do you think I can sue the bride for loss of wages if I lose my job because I'm following this story? It will be all her fault!
Oh, no!
DSEVANS will be partying at the wedding today, and maybe we won't get an update until MONDAY because of Easter! I can't wait that long!
Thanks. I couldn't find that comment.
I'm at work at the accountant's office again. Work is such an intrusion!
Do you think I can sue the bride for loss of wages if I lose my job because I'm following this story? It will be all her fault!
I think they tried that on Judy Judy....she said "NO!" LOL
Beth
Being so new in this business......I am absolutely amazed at the amount of support for eachother. I think all of you posters need a thumbs up
. What a great group of people to have as support and to give great advice to us newer people!To the OP: you have class!
i have to agree with you ..its a cake family! you guys are great!
dsevans--- your cake is so amazing, that bride sure missed out. You I'm still so shocked that someone did this all ON PURPOSE. It's strange how some people just feel no shame and can justify anything....
We are all waiting to see if you heard any news on what happened at the reception.
My kitchen is full of dirty dishes.... the laundry is piled up, my two year old and I are still in our jammies, and the Easter cake is still not done... I had to catch up on the saga..... I left off on page 12 yesterday!!!!!
You are correct in that "check fraud" can be a federal crime but in this case "stop payment" is not considered a "check" fraud. "Check fraud" example would be the "forging" of a check", or "passing a forged check"; or using a "replica" of a check. dsevans certainly has a great case of "attempted fraud" or a charge of "attempting to obtain property by false pretense". Either one a felony because of the amount.
This is also incorrect.
Hubby is sitting next to me. 25 years in banking and a LOT of those years were involved in solving check fraud at his bank. He practically shared an office with the bank attorney.
All of your examples ARE examples of check fraud. But check fraud is also writing a check WITH THE INTENT of putting a stop payment on it. Passing a bad check is prosecutable. She wrote a check with insufficient funds. She issued a stop payment without a valid reason. There's "intent to fraud" and "intent of theft by fraud" written all over this.
Under certain circumstances, a stop payment IS considerd check fraud. And from what I've read on here, these two bozo's (bride and MOB) qualify for these circumstances.
I haven't read anywhere that there were insufficient funds in the bride's checking account. I may have missed that but in reviewing the posts I don't see that anywhere. That being said, if the bride wrote a check with sufficient funds available, there can not be any "CHECK" fraud. The check is good! There are funds available to make payment. Now, if she decided, before or after, talking to the baker, that she was going to stop payment AFTER talking with the baker and being assured that the contract was going to be fulfilled, then she has committed fraud against the BAKER NOT THE BANK! She had a criminal intent to defraud the baker of money owed to the baker. Following her conversation with the baker she fully believed that the cake would be delivered as promised, knowing that she had already put a stop payment on the final payment for services.
This information comes from twenty three years of law enforcement; thirteen years of private investigations and hundreds of criminal cases involving all types of felonies including financial crimes. As well as family members who prosecutes exactly these types of cases.
Yes, you're wrong
If you are baking illegally, any contracts are void.
It would be like a drug dealer drawing up contracts for deliveries, lol. Just because you have something stating someone should pay you, doesnt mean it's valid.
There's a difference between dealing in illegal activity and a cake. It is wholly false that you must be a licensed business to enforce a contract. Before I was ever license (pre CC days) I had to go to court due to a stop-payment on a check and my being licensed was NEVER an issue. I won the case because I did what I promised. Your reasoning would indicate that only businesses can make up and enforce a contract. Not true at all! Everyday people make contracts every day and they are enforced as well!
Tammi
This all is getting confusing. But I would think you don't have to have a licenced business to enter into a contract with another. Say you are selling your car to your brother (you do not have a car dealership)..but he is going to make you payments and you wrote a contract (reviewed by a attorney). If he defaults on the loan..it would still make him liable....right?
All I can say is WOW!
Your cake is amazing! Will you do cakes for me at that price. I could make a thousand bucks and not do anything. You don't charge enough girl. Your baby needs it. AND, SO DO YOU!
And, would you be willing to teach the rest of us your backbone? YOU GO GIRL! Get all that you can from this little !@#$% and her mommy.
I've been doing cakes for a number of years now. Here is what I do. Hope this helps all you hard working cake designers.
1. Cake must be paid in full no less than 30 days before event.
2. If for some reason they can not pay, if it is less than 30 days. I accept a cashiers check or cash only.
3. If it gets up to just days before the event. Then it's cash only.
4. When I do deliver the cake. Someone, Bride, MoB or FoB. MUST BE AT RECEPTION HALL TO SIGN OFF ON THE CAKE AFTER IT IS SET UP. Set up is not less than 2hours before wedding. Why do I have someone sign off on the cake? They must inspect the cake to make sure I'm leaving it setup with NO: MISSING ROSES, FINGER SWIPES OR JUST PLAIN OOOPS. BY THE SERVING STAFF EST. No damage to the cake when I left. Covers your $@^ later. I've had them come back after the fact and said: The cake was damaged in some way. And, then demand their money back. I also take at least 4 photos before I leave with time and date stamped on the photos.
This is all stated in my contract. And, I make sure to READ THIS PART TO THE BRIDE. So, that she can't claim "She didn't know". I've had caters damage a cake. And, then say I left it that way.
People will try anything to get something for nothing.
Good Luck!
Whew! I think I need to go to law school to follow this thread.
I haven't read anywhere that there were insufficient funds in the bride's checking account.
Hey, you're right! I am assuming that based on the bride telling the venue that she only had $250 .... she didn't have $550. I took that to mean she only had $250 in her account. And I used the insufficient funds example because hubby gave that as an example of intent to fraud. So yes, I could be wrong on whether this bride had insufficient funds or not.
I will stand by hubby's contention that writing a check with the intent to stop payment without a valid reason is intent to fraud.
This bride belongs in the "stupid criminal" file. What did she think would happen come Monday and the OP found out the check was no good?? I can just hear her whine about how "bad things happen to me and they're not even my fault". "Poor pitiful me". NOT
So now, it's ten years later, and you think back on your first wedding and all you remember is no cake. And all your friends remember how you were too cheap to get a decent wedding cake. Hope someone has a camera and sends the picture to CakeWrecks of the Walmart cake...
When I first started reading this, I thought we were being "punked". Truth is stranger than fiction!!
just logged back in this morning and of COURSE this is the 1st thread I go to! 
6 pages whilst I was away. Holy bananas!
Dude, I cannot wait til Monday for info from the venue!! ARGGHH
I haven't read anywhere that there were insufficient funds in the bride's checking account.
Hey, you're right! I am assuming that based on the bride telling the venue that she only had $250 .... she didn't have $550. I took that to mean she only had $250 in her account. And I used the insufficient funds example because hubby gave that as an example of intent to fraud. So yes, I could be wrong on whether this bride had insufficient funds or not.
I will stand by hubby's contention that writing a check with the intent to stop payment without a valid reason is intent to fraud.
I agree with your hubby's contention that writing a check with the intent to stop payment is "fraud" against the person to whom the check was written. What I was saying is that it is not considered "check fraud". So I think we are actually agreeing. 
I think we all hope that someone is videoing the wedding as the bride steps on her trail and falls right on her WalMart cake. 
Just told my DH about this, too and here's what he said:
"What an idiot. I hope it is worth jailtime for WM sheet cakes"
Wow! This is insane! OP I think you're awesome for how you've handled this. I can't believe how some people behave these days. My kids just got a lecture because of this thread! I can't wait to hear an update.
Okay - I know this is all over now and I'm nearly 20 pages behind (some of us had cakes to bake 
) but I told my husband this morning I wish OP would have delivered the bottom tier with an edible image of the Stop Payment Order on it and timed it so the cake was sitting there for all her guests to look at while the wedding party was having photos done.
Okay - I know this is all over now and I'm nearly 20 pages behind (some of us had cakes to bake
) but I told my husband this morning I wish OP would have delivered the bottom tier with an edible image of the Stop Payment Order on it and timed it so the cake was sitting there for all her guests to look at while the wedding party was having photos done.
oooh! I like the way you think!
Wow she got her's in the end. Ha I would so love to see a picture of her dropdead gorgous walmart cakes 
. Your cake was absolutly beautiful and a steal at the price you had given her. She didn't deserve your beatuiful creation. I know the people at church will be more than happy and apprecative of all the time and hard work you put into this cake.
Wow she got her's in the end. Ha I would so love to see a picture of her dropdead gorgous walmart cakes
. Your cake was absolutly beautiful and a steal at the price you had given her. She didn't deserve your beatuiful creation. I know the people at church will be more than happy and apprecative of all the time and hard work you put into this cake.
she didn't get "hers" yet... she will when her happy a** lands in jail and she has to pay court costs and restitution
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